Was I 'manipulated' into affair?

[fellini]

Rather than seeking professional help on your condition, I think you should speak to a professional about the conduct of the OM who was treating you.

 

I agree with one or two people here that Loveshack is NOT the place to get feedback on the main point of your post.

 

I will say this though. A mental health professional, like a therapist, is trained in the area of "transference" and the literature in fact DOES equate sexual relations between Professional and Patient in a Rape crisis analogy.

 

The point is this: it is always and without exception the responsiblility of the professional to ensure that NO SEXUAL RELATIONS OCCUR.

 

Talk to another professional ABOUT THIS because if they know their field, they will explain to you that you feel the same GUILT that often ocurrs to rape victims who blame themselves for what ensues in a situation they did not agree to.

 

And get out of LS because this is not the place to have this discussion.

It is the last place you should come to.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Useless89]

Rather than seeking professional help on your condition, I think you should speak to a professional about the conduct of the OM who was treating you.

 

I agree with one or two people here that Loveshack is NOT the place to get feedback on the main point of your post.

 

I will say this though. A mental health professional, like a therapist, is trained in the area of "transference" and the literature in fact DOES equate sexual relations between Professional and Patient in a Rape crisis analogy.

 

The point is this: it is always and without exception the responsiblility of the professional to ensure that NO SEXUAL RELATIONS OCCUR.

 

Talk to another professional ABOUT THIS because if they know their field, they will explain to you that you feel the same GUILT that often ocurrs to rape victims who blame themselves for what ensues in a situation they did not agree to.

 

And get out of LS because this is not the place to have this discussion.

It is the last place you should come to.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

I don't think you're getting that he was never ever TREATING me, he's not MY advisor, not MY prescriber. He's a professional but we worked together he never treated me.

[Useless89]

When a person is drunk beyond recognition and someone has sex with them (they may not remember) it is generally called rape. Why is this not the case with someone who has bipolar who is in the mania stage and is not able to properly consent? At least with a person who is drunk they have the ability to not drink at all or stop at some point. The OP is suffering from a mental illness out of their control.

 

OP from your posts, it seems you are aware and have done work on getting mentally healthy. Congrats. It can be a long, hard road. Don't allow people who have no concept of what BP can do to a person's ability to think properly to pull you down.

 

It's complicated because I remember 'coming to' (I have a good dozen memories of similar moments like this during that time) with us having sex and him choking me and I was very scared but he was like shocked I was so scared and he held me and stuff so I suspect that I did fully consent to all this stuff I just wasn't necessarily with it when I did. That's not his fault

[fellini]

I don't think you're getting that he was never ever TREATING me, he's not MY advisor, not MY prescriber. He's a professional but we worked together he never treated me.

 

He was treating you because he was in your space. This is what you have said. He had close contact with you because of your condition.

 

A doctor who comes across a man bleeding in the street treats him, doesn't interest himself with whether or not the person is a patient or not.

 

By what you described in your post you allowed this man to discuss your health issues as a professional, not as a friend. In doing so he was "treating" you.

 

If he doesn't bill you as a patient, that's his business, but he still knew the consequences of consulting you and the effects this would have based upon your condition and the treatment you were getting through drugs.

 

But if you want to think he had no say in your relationship, then that is where you are. You see, Im not interested in the question of the affair, we are talking about his level of professionalism. The continuous affair is related to this or not? Most professionals would say you are not in the best position to decide on his role because you do not understand that as a professional he already knew not to have sexual relations with a person in your state.

[road]

He was treating you because he was in your space. This is what you have said. He had close contact with you because of your condition.

 

A doctor who comes across a man bleeding in the street treats him, doesn't interest himself with whether or not the person is a patient or not.

 

By what you described in your post you allowed this man to discuss your health issues as a professional, not as a friend. In doing so he was "treating" you.

 

If he doesn't bill you as a patient, that's his business, but he still knew the consequences of consulting you and the effects this would have based upon your condition and the treatment you were getting through drugs.

 

But if you want to think he had no say in your relationship, then that is where you are. You see, Im not interested in the question of the affair, we are talking about his level of professionalism. The continuous affair is related to this or not? Most professionals would say you are not in the best position to decide on his role because you do not understand that as a professional he already knew not to have sexual relations with a person in your state.

 

 

 

This OM must be reported to your state health department and your local police and district attorney. You were not in your right mind evidenced that he choked you and would not let you get up.

[2.50 a gallon]

I totally agree with Road.

It does not matter whether he was treating you as a patient. It does not matter that he was not your advisor or prescriber.

He is a mental health professional, he recognized and knew that you were in a mentally unhealthy state, and used his educated professional knowledge to take sexual advantage of you. You were ill and he used your illness to take advantage of you.

He is a predator.

The question you need to ask yourself is how many others has he taken advantage of, when they were in a similar mental state such as yourself.

He needs to be stopped before he does this again.

Edited December 18, 2015 by 2.50 a gallon

[Lady2163]

I was trying to avoid saying rape or assault.

 

But, yes you were violated. I think if you went to talk with a counselor and a lawyer they would agree.

 

It doesn't matter if he was treating you or not. The example of a doctor has been given. Mental health professionals are held to a higher standard.

 

I think you have been through a profound mental illness and are still recovering. Very few people on here can truly empathize.

 

At this point, only you know if you were truly able to give consent. Only you know how ill you were at the time.

[understand50]

Useless89,

 

First of all, I wish you had picked another name then Useless. The fact that you are asking these questions is to your credit. Your response to tell all to your BS, also is a big step and shows that you are not useless. I do not think you are useless, but have a strength inside you that you now need to tap. Maybe you can change your name to something with "Hope" or "Strength" in it?

 

I think you need to talk to a professional, to see if you were taken advanage of. I do believe that some affairs would not happen, if the WS had not run into the AP right at that particular time. Does not relieve them of the responsibility, but does give a lot of context. In your case, you were under a doctors care, and under medication and a colleague, took advanage of your state of mind to have sex with you. Again, you are not shirking what you did, but many of us can see that his actions were not moral, and may not have been legal. We also can see that you were not in complete control of yourself, and may not have been able to give consent. Please talk to your doctor, therapist, and let them know what has occurred, and also your decision to confess to your BS. This will affect your treatment, and the first thing is to keep getting better.

 

Hopefully your BS, will support you in all this, but you may find that he will have hurt and pain. Be prepared for that. Tell him, after you talk it out with your therapist. This will be a good first step.

 

I wish you luck and the best outcome possible for you.

[Cephalopod]

I take lithium now and it balances me out well. I am worried about the aftermath of telling and how I'm going to support myself but it's on my own shoulders and I accept it

 

Lithium? Holy crap! No one takes lithium anymore unless they are borderline psychotic. You must have gotten really down. Why are you not on one of the SSRI meds? Lithium is old school voodoo. That stuff damages your eyesight.

[2.50 a gallon]

U98

 

 

How the mind works is still a big mystery. We have some answers and for other we might as well be talking to the man in the moon.

My opinion is that you need to find a way to forgive yourself. And unlike others on this board, it is my opinion that when it comes to mental health there are times, such as a situation as yours, where the person is not totally responsible for their actions.

Take for instance some mid-life crisis cases. When I was in high school, the mom of the kid who lived across the street, went totally nuts. She abruptly moved out, told his dad that she had a new co-worker boyfriend, and wanted nothing to do with him or her kids.

Luckily the co-worker made contact with his dad, and said your wife is nuts, that he was happily married and wanted nothing to do with her, as she was messing up his marriage. Between the father, the co-worker, and their employer they were able to get her in to see a doctor. Who was able to prescribe the right medicine and she gladly came back home.

She did not recall almost anything she did during that period.

I am sure that your partner refusing to help had a great deal into making your situation much worse. You were depressed and when you needed their help the most, they turned their back.

Edited December 18, 2015 by 2.50 a gallon
missing word

[Horton]

Um no not at a though, I'm not in even the remotest way looking for an out and I don't think it's fair to say I am 'subconsciously' either really seeing as I have cleat said otherwise and my only concern is whether to include this information for fear of partner thinking the same thing. Which means withholding a lot of information.

 

And on the flip side there are others on here who've responded to this by saying in including the details here I am 'subconsciously' looking for an out, when I just wanna be able to talk about it! Would be good if people could respond to me like I'm a normal poster on here rather than making me feel like a dangerous liability.

 

I can't speak for the other posters, but I responded to you like I would any other poster. I don't agree with the general consensus here that your situation is uniquely special due yo your other issues. If your main purpose of this thread was to figure out whether or not you should include all of the details then my advice is yes you should. My previous post about your "sub conscious" was not due to your mental health, but is something I would advise any cheater to do, which is why I included alcohol in my list of reasons.

 

IMO It's always useful for a person to evaluate their own motives when they're suddenly inundated with new reasons for their affair after feeling so much guilt for it. It's a natural human response to want to find something, anything to alleviate us of our uncomfortable feelings, but if you've already come to the conclusion that your motives are about truth and not about justification then I'd say you're on the right path then. Still I'd advise you to prepare yourself for the likely possibility that your medication and mental health issues don't take precedence to your partner at least not in the foreseeable future. He's gonna be in some of, if not the worst pain he's ever been in, so he likely won't have much emotional support left over for your predicament anytime soon.

 

There's also the less likely possibility that he'll ignore his own pain of being cheated on and focus on your issues exclusively, I've seen people(usually BH's) take that route before and while it may feel good in the immediate aftermath of confession, it isn't a healthy way to go about reconciling since he would be burying the pain and humiliation of being cheated on deep inside which is extremely unhealthy and not a long term solution for any of the parties involved. If after you confess he goes into savior mode and tries to "fix" you instead of dealing with his own trauma, while looking at your affair in a detached, clinical way then he's in an even worse spot than if he had simply gotten angry and screamed his head off.

[sandylee1]

Your partner has no understanding of mental health issues at all. I don't think he's a safe person to be with in your condition and his attitude has probably just made things worse.

 

How will he be if you have another episode? That would really be my biggest concern. His reaction towards you when you were ill is .... it's left me speechless really.

[Chi townD]

Well, if you were never in his care or considered one of his patients. Then, professionally speaking, he didn't go against his oath. Was it immoral? Absolutely.

 

 

You made a choice. And that choice was to cheat. You went willingly. Therefore, you have to shoulder the blame. Question is, what is your next step?

[Naively.Sensitive]

I can't speak for the other posters, but I responded to you like I would any other poster. I don't agree with the general consensus here that your situation is uniquely special due yo your other issues. If your main purpose of this thread was to figure out whether or not you should include all of the details then my advice is yes you should. My previous post about your "sub conscious" was not due to your mental health, but is something I would advise any cheater to do, which is why I included alcohol in my list of reasons.

 

IMO It's always useful for a person to evaluate their own motives when they're suddenly inundated with new reasons for their affair after feeling so much guilt for it. It's a natural human response to want to find something, anything to alleviate us of our uncomfortable feelings, but if you've already come to the conclusion that your motives are about truth and not about justification then I'd say you're on the right path then. Still I'd advise you to prepare yourself for the likely possibility that your medication and mental health issues don't take precedence to your partner at least not in the foreseeable future. He's gonna be in some of, if not the worst pain he's ever been in, so he likely won't have much emotional support left over for your predicament anytime soon.

 

There's also the less likely possibility that he'll ignore his own pain of being cheated on and focus on your issues exclusively, I've seen people(usually BH's) take that route before and while it may feel good in the immediate aftermath of confession, it isn't a healthy way to go about reconciling since he would be burying the pain and humiliation of being cheated on deep inside which is extremely unhealthy and not a long term solution for any of the parties involved. If after you confess he goes into savior mode and tries to "fix" you instead of dealing with his own trauma, while looking at your affair in a detached, clinical way then he's in an even worse spot than if he had simply gotten angry and screamed his head off.

 

I agree with everything mentioned here. I was in the situation during the first month, during which I was not fully acknowledging my pain and was partly trying to help my wife who betrayed me. It does not work. I think both your pains need to be addressed. There will be a LOT of pain, trust me, I'm still going through it. Depending on how deep an emotional pattern we carry in our lives (and there is also the inherent male psych), a betrayed husband probably feels a lot more pain than a betrayed wife. I think research shows this statistic is true. The reason I know is because I was trying to find out if it was normal to feel so much unbearable pain by the husband (as I felt something may have been wrong with me), and I found the research and statistics to support and explain what I was going through.

 

Just tell you husband everything honestly, without making any judgements about yourself or the person with whom the encounters happened. In one of your earlier posts you mentioned that you still feel for this other person. Is that really true? That concerns me a little.

 

My heart goes out to you too. I wish for a very good recovery for your mental health condition. I have been in depression before, so I understand mental health conditions very well, having experienced them before.

 

Lots of hugs to you and your husband. The world needs plenty of healing, love and compassion.

[anika99]

OP I have a question and forgive me if I'm being dense. I admit I have very little understanding of bipolar and how it manifests. However I'm wondering if you were out of your mind in a full blown manic episode and you were being drugged to the point of blacking out during sex and such, how it is that you had the presence of mind to actively hide the affair from your partner and deceive him on an ongoing basis? It would seem to me that someone in that state of mind would be sloppy and not very good at secrecy and sneaking around.

[SweetiePi]

Do you mean "coming to" as in waking from being unconscious?

 

 

That situation you describe is very scary. A person who is not with it or unconscious is in no way able to consent. I think the blame belongs on him for taking advantage of you.

 

 

It's complicated because I remember 'coming to' (I have a good dozen memories of similar moments like this during that time) with us having sex and him choking me and I was very scared but he was like shocked I was so scared and he held me and stuff so I suspect that I did fully consent to all this stuff I just wasn't necessarily with it when I did. That's not his fault

[Useless89]

This OM must be reported to your state health department and your local police and district attorney. You were not in your right mind evidenced that he choked you and would not let you get up.

 

No honestly it's not like that. Have done it since.

[BetrayedH]

Lithium? Holy crap! No one takes lithium anymore unless they are borderline psychotic. You must have gotten really down. Why are you not on one of the SSRI meds? Lithium is old school voodoo. That stuff damages your eyesight.

 

I'm not a doctor but my GF is bipolar and has taken lithium for years. She's definitely not "borderline psychotic" and is fortunate to be on the pretty mild side of the bipolar spectrum. She still struggles on and off as there is no "cure" but from everything I've read (which has been considerable), lithium is the gold standard as pertains to treatment for bipolar. It's not uncommon for the lithium to be augmented with other drugs such as antidepressants or mood stabilizers and that varies considerably from patient to patient. For my GF, lamecdol is her second med and I've read a lot to indicate that this combination is also quite standard (the approach is commonly referred to as L&L). Point being...I've read NOTHING that indicates that lithium is old school voodoo or even that it's on the way out as a medication for bipolar. The only thing I've read that sounds even remotely like this is that lithium can become less effective over time and so it's common to have to replace it with something else. As well, it can cause liver problems if not properly monitored and sometimes that drives a change in med. But even in those cases, lithium is the preference until it can't be used anymore. I'd be curious to read what you've found to the contrary.

[fellini]

No honestly it's not like that. Have done it since.

 

You came in here with a detailed story about a conversation you had with a trusted person you confided about your affair. This person raised the issue that what your OM did was outside of professional acceptable conduct.

 

Many people here agree with that, and yet you seem bent on defending the OM because of something to do with a) he was not your doctor and b) you have some responsibility in this.

 

But you don't seem to understand, REGARDLESS of your CONSENT, what this man did is professionally wrong. Possibly sufficient to be investigated by his profession.

 

It's not about whether you ever agreed, it's that he is not supposed to put you into the situation to even decide.

 

If I am a teacher, and I have sexual intercourse with a student, it's okay if later I say, hey, she was not my student?, and the student says, hey, I let him?

 

The teacher usually loses his/her licence.

Edited December 19, 2015 by fellini

[fellini]

The first times you had sex...

 

And then there was more...

 

You participated. And then you participated more.

 

You are the only one responsible for participating!

 

Own that you participated. That is only on you - unless you were raped. Then it's a different story.

 

Would you pin that on the hundreds of women who gave birth to their captors children when held in captivity for years?

Would you pin that on young women who have been seduced by stepfathers without their mothers consent?

Would you pin that on women who have experienced sexual victimisation.

Would you pin that on the high school teenager who ends up seduced by a teacher she thinks she is in love with?

 

 

How about you give OP - as an obvious expert in this field - a list of acceptable conditions under which you would claim she is not responsible for her participation.

 

Or is your list, based on your PHD in trauma, psychology and psychiatry simply: You did it once, you repeated. You weren't raped. Own it.

 

Are you colour blind and only see things in BLACK and WHITE?

[understand50]

 

Before telling him, I confided in a very close friend of many years. To my complete shock, this friend feels I have been manipulated or used at a vulnerable time by the other man. I feel sick even thinking about this because I feel it is absolutely 100% my fault. But I still would like some honest opinion really to help process and to confirm my thoughts.

 

The reasons my friend has cited is that I was ill when i got to know him, he pursued and told me to do things and told me to get out of relationship etc under helping me out because he is a mental health professional and 20 years older, and that we were physical during times I was not in my right mind (when I started new meds I can't really remember anything around that time and unfortunately I started on antidepressants that sent me into a full manic episode, discovering I have bipolar disorder)

.

 

Useless89,

 

Your original question was what was stated above. I think the consensus is that you were taken advanage of.

 

I admire you, not shirking the consequences of your actions. Just keep in mind, your AP should also have consequences, for what he did to you. I see you as a statutory rape victim. I do not think you do, but please keep this in mind, what happen to you, should not have happened. Take what responsibility you feel you must, but also please keep in mind, that you were not yourself and what happened should not define you. The remorse you feel, is healthy, use it to get and keep healthy and in a good place. Please, change your name, Useless you are not, and from what you write, you do yourself a discredit.

 

As always I wish you luck........

Edited December 20, 2015 by understand50

[drifter777]

Would you pin that on the hundreds of women who gave birth to their captors children when held in captivity for years?

Would you pin that on young women who have been seduced by stepfathers without their mothers consent?

Would you pin that on women who have experienced sexual victimisation.

Would you pin that on the high school teenager who ends up seduced by a teacher she thinks she is in love with?

 

 

How about you give OP - as an obvious expert in this field - a list of acceptable conditions under which you would claim she is not responsible for her participation.

 

Or is your list, based on your PHD in trauma, psychology and psychiatry simply: You did it once, you repeated. You weren't raped. Own it.

 

Are you colour blind and only see things in BLACK and WHITE?

 

Women coerced by the threat of death and therefore have to succumb to their captors are irrelevant to to this case. A young girl abused by a male family member is a ridiculous comparison - I can't believe you brought this up in this context.

 

We strongly disagree on the responsibility of the other man in cheating. I say he's just the penis she decided to give it up to. Women know how to shut-down a guy. They've been doing it since they were young girls. If a guy tries to charm her into sex she goes along because she wants him. She wants sex with him. Very simple.

 

OP: if you were so depressed and unhappy with your boyfriend then you go to him and say "I'm not happy with our relationship and either we fix it or I'm leaving". Now, is that so hard? Maybe harder than lying to him so you can screw some guy and then sneak back to him. I mean, what the hell - he'll never know about it.

 

You two are not married. Don't tell him about the cheating - tell him you are not happy and don't believe he can change and then let him go.

[understand50]

The first times you had sex...

 

And then there was more...

 

You participated. And then you participated more.

 

You are the only one responsible for participating!

 

Own that you participated. That is only on you - unless you were raped. Then it's a different story.

 

Would you pin that on the hundreds of women who gave birth to their captors children when held in captivity for years?

Would you pin that on young women who have been seduced by stepfathers without their mothers consent?

Would you pin that on women who have experienced sexual victimisation.

Would you pin that on the high school teenager who ends up seduced by a teacher she thinks she is in love with?

 

 

How about you give OP - as an obvious expert in this field - a list of acceptable conditions under which you would claim she is not responsible for her participation.

 

Or is your list, based on your PHD in trauma, psychology and psychiatry simply: You did it once, you repeated. You weren't raped. Own it.

 

Are you colour blind and only see things in BLACK and WHITE?

 

All,

 

This is so right on so many levels. Morally and legally, there are rules. The fact that there are some in society, who feel we have "moved" on and now anything goes when it come to sex, does not change the basic facts. There are some situation, where a person cannot give consent, and cannot be held responsible. Placing blame on a victim, is just adding to the hurt and pain.

 

A person, man or woman, who takes advanage, is not only in the wrong, but should also be held to nothing but contempt and any legal penalty that is on the books. There is a reason it is called "statutory rape", as consent could not be given due to age,mental or physical incapacity. Due compassion should be given. To not accept this, is to blame every person that has been forced, or taken advanage of.

 

My two cents.

[SolG]

We strongly disagree on the responsibility of the other man in cheating. I say he's just the penis she decided to give it up to. Women know how to shut-down a guy. They've been doing it since they were young girls. If a guy tries to charm her into sex she goes along because she wants him. She wants sex with him. Very simple.

 

OP: if you were so depressed and unhappy with your boyfriend then you go to him and say "I'm not happy with our relationship and either we fix it or I'm leaving". Now, is that so hard? Maybe harder than lying to him so you can screw some guy and then sneak back to him. I mean, what the hell - he'll never know about it.

 

Bipolar mania can produce hypersexuality (especially in women). Along with indiscriminate spending, drinking, drug taking, etc. Full blown mania significantly impairs higher cognitive functioning and the ability to regulate behaviour and recognise risk. Affairs or other inappropriate sexual behaviour is a very common symptom for bipolar sufferers.

 

They are also at highs and lows very unlikely to be able to function rationally enough to appropriately address things such as relationship issues. So the answer to your glib 'Is that so hard? ', for someone expressing a manic or depressive episode would be 'Yes, it would be'.

 

And as a mental health professional, the OM in this case would have known all this. Known the OP at that particular phase of her illness would be particularly vulnerable to an A, and took advantage of it. That is absolutely predatory and unacceptable.

 

OP, I'm glad you are more stable. It's very important that you continue to get good treatment. Please talk to your medical team about hypersexuality and the A and how to manage this dimension of your behaviour as part of your plan. It's also important that your BF be included in discussions with your medical team and forms part of your overall management plan. (To help with routine, early prodrome recognition, etc.)

 

Bipolar can be devastating when not well managed. And it can be very difficult on relationships. You both need to be all in.

 

Also, I would tell your medical team that you're going to confess to your BF. That is likely to produce relationship trauma that may put you at risk of a relapse. They should be able to help you bear plan to avoid this.

 

Good luck.

[fellini]

Women coerced by the threat of death and therefore have to succumb to their captors are irrelevant to to this case. A young girl abused by a male family member is a ridiculous comparison - I can't believe you brought this up in this context.

 

We strongly disagree on the responsibility of the other man in cheating. I say he's just the penis she decided to give it up to. Women know how to shut-down a guy. They've been doing it since they were young girls. If a guy tries to charm her into sex she goes along because she wants him. She wants sex with him. Very simple.

 

OP: if you were so depressed and unhappy with your boyfriend then you go to him and say "I'm not happy with our relationship and either we fix it or I'm leaving". Now, is that so hard? Maybe harder than lying to him so you can screw some guy and then sneak back to him. I mean, what the hell - he'll never know about it.

 

You two are not married. Don't tell him about the cheating - tell him you are not happy and don't believe he can change and then let him go.

 

As usual Drifter, you insist in pretending you don't understand my point. It is a broken record with you. Yeah, it's personal. Been through this too many times WITH YOU personally that it's just a matter of time.

 

So I will pretend you didn't deliberately misread me and correct you.

 

The poster declared - now go back and actually read it Drifter - that the ONE AND ONLY REASON NOT TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IS IN A RAPE CASE.

 

My post challenges this assumption saying that there are many other reasons why a person who has had sexual relations is not to be held ENTIRELY and SINGULARLY RESPONSABLE.

 

I NEVER once said that any of those cases I cited specifically applied to the OP. I already made my point that her AP most certainly acted outside the requirements NOT to ENGAGE in ANY sexual activity with PEOPLE in the OP's CONDITION.

 

My post claimed there is more than ONE reason this OP is not 100% responsible for ending up where she did. Choose to ignore what I say in my posts to continue your attacks on me personally if you like, but this OP deserves something better than incessant long term animosity from LS members who have grudges on certain posters and use their threads to continue them

Edited December 20, 2015 by fellini