What if you were on the other side? [infidelity related]

December 18, 2015

We didn't get married because he thought I'd be good at cleaning a house or throwing dinner parties for business associates. I didn't think, 'he will be a good provider'...he didn't even have a car. He couldn't even drive! He earnt just above minimum wage! I wouldn't of cared if he was a busker, street musician. If he loved it & it made him happy..GREAT!!

If I wanted money & a certain life style I'd of provided it & did! Why would I choose a partner to provide for me? I'm an educated woman.

I don't know people like that. From TV I know there are people who are one step away from arranged marriage. It's all about what each GETS from the other.

I've had business deals go bad. I never shed a tear. Why on earth would I?

We got married because we dearly loved each other. We wanted to be FAMILY. We wanted to join our families together with a FANTASTIC party & waited 6 years to be sure. We waited 10 years after our wedding day to have our first baby because we were living OUR life. Enjoying each other, enjoying OUR life. We were very aware of the joys & sacrifices of becoming parents.

I thought that we were like most people. You find your person, your love & want to share your lives, 'for better & worse' & all that stuff. You look deep into those eyes you know better than your own & sincerely say those vows BECAUSE you LOVE each other.

Anyone who didn't find adultery or divorce a big deal is very lucky & VERY sad! That incredible, amazing day can't of meant very much to you.

My parents are still together & still very much in love. They would do anything for me because I'm their child & they love me unconditionally. That's what FAMILY is to me. Why can people understand that loosing my brother, my only sibling, was a devastating, heart wrenching, life changing experience but can't see that being betrayed by my husband was as bad, if not worse?!?

In one moment, reading one forum post, my entire perception of reality changed. I lost my FAMILY, my LOVE, my PARTNER, my BEST FRIEND. I've compared it to the pope dying & being met by Buddha saying "Dude, you got it so wrong!".

He's never been just some man. We grew-up together. We're not cynics trying to correct a business arrangement. Every memory, every experience includes him.

Since my brother died so tragically my parents can't bare talking about our childhood, our life, because it reminds them & hurts them. Their eyes mist & they avoid because of the pain. My EXISTENCE, my past, my life makes them sad. I've lost my childhood. My family memories.

Now I feel like I'm loosing my adulthood! If its what you say it is....only of value when you're giving & fulfilling needs, then it's all been lies! He's not family, he's just a man.

"Together we'll see things I'd never see!". My life, EVERYTHING is different without my love. Only he knows me, has shared all of those moments that make a lifetime. My past & my future are covered with a shadow of pain.

On the other forums they say "Man-up. Dump him & find a man who will love & cherish you". People aren't replaceable!! It's not like a car...s**t I'm even sad when I have to get a new car because I'm loosing something that holds memories for me!!

I'm sick. I'm damaged. I'm broken. Stick me out on a snowy mountain because I'm just a burden. That's what it comes down to after 25 years. Maybe I'm a hapless romantic, delusional. I'm just so terminally sad.

Feeling has given me much joy in my life. I wouldn't swap places with someone who can rationalize without love & passion...that would render my life even more meaningless than it is now!

You have a lot on your plate. Do you have a counselor, minister or health professional to talk to? Sounds like you could use some real life support and not just Intermet Strangers.

December 18, 2015

I thought that we were like most people. You find your person, your love & want to share your lives, 'for better & worse' & all that stuff. You look deep into those eyes you know better than your own & sincerely say those vows BECAUSE you LOVE each other.

Anyone who didn't find adultery or divorce a big deal is very lucky & VERY sad! That incredible, amazing day can't of meant very much to you.

SL, just because some of us can talk about our former lives somewhat dispassionately doesn't mean that we haven't been at a point where we thought just like you -- felt just like you. No one goes into a M thinking, "Oh, I'll get a divorce once this stops working out." Well, unless they marry for a green card or health insurance or something practical.

It just means that years have gone by, and we see things for what they are. You can't hold onto that pain forever, right? You have just this one life.

M isn't magic. It's a contract filed in your county courthouse. It can't make you always love and cherish each other. It cannot make you always feel a certain way about a person, and them you. Our Ms are not our parents' Ms, nor our siblings, nor our friends.

I read an interesting article about a divorce researcher who claims that of all people who marry once and stay married for life, only 17 percent of them are happy. Those are not good odds. We change, fundamentally, over the course of our lives.

Some of my years with my exH were magic ... wonderful. I wouldn't trade those for the world. We went through hard times during our courtship. I looked way down the line and couldn't see anyone else in my life, and I was blissfully happy about that. We were different people then. I don't even recognize the woman I was. But, I remember what those moments felt like. I'll have them again, just not with the person I thought.

That's perfectly okay.

December 18, 2015

Some of my years with my exH were magic ... wonderful. I wouldn't trade those for the world. We went through hard times during our courtship. I looked way down the line and couldn't see anyone else in my life, and I was blissfully happy about that. We were different people then.

same here! i loved my xH & i'm very grateful for him and we had some amazing moments... i'm sure he thinks the same way. but i believe every relationship has an expiration date. and just because someone was your The One when you were 25 - it doesn't mean that they'll still be your The One a decade later.

we change and we fall in and out of love. to mantain a (first) marriage, especially when you marry under 30 years old... it's a really hard work. we change and we can't control or know what kind of person we or our spouse will be in a couple of years.

we have to learn to recognize when to let go. many marriages simply aren't meant to last.

December 18, 2015

we change and we fall in and out of love. to mantain a (first) marriage, especially when you marry under 30 years old... it's a really hard work. we change and we can't control or know what kind of person we or our spouse will be in a couple of years.

Marrying under the age of 30 is really dodgy. I recommend it to exactly no one! Forty is better, fifty is okay, and sixty, I think people know who they are. I'm still finding out who I am, albeit in small ways. I know, for example, that I'll never live with a man again or co-mingle assets and debts; that's the source of much discontent. Once you've done it all wrong, you figure out how to do it right.

I work in a field where I work with the data provided by other people's histories. Most of them are married for 25-30 years; they do the "society approves" things, like buy the house and have kids. Then they divorce and remarry another empty-nester and are happy together till one of them dies.

I work with a lot of people in their 20s and early 30s that are married and have kids. It's weird to think that at least 50 percent of them won't be together in another couple of decades. One just got divorced at 48, married to the same woman for most of his life. It's very sad, but it's how life plays out.

December 18, 2015

Thank you for everyone who's posted. This has ended-up more cathartic for me than I thought.

I never meant "If an OW marries her MM", that different as some pointed out. I was wondering if being an OW gave you a different perspective on cheating. If you married a 'good guy' & after many years he cheated.... I've never been an OW even when very young. I was just wondering.

I know that every situation is different but at one point I was a sociology student (changed my mind). It can be seen as we're all individuals living by not very unique 'rules' of behavior. Sometimes trying to find commonalities, tribe, helps.

Yes, being an OW has changed my perspective. Before the A, I had never been in a monogamous relationship. Yep, that's right... The first time I have ever been monogamous was as an OW :-/ I had until then always practiced varying degrees of consensual non-monogamy.

Then I met MM and in the heady early times we decided we were each other's 'the one' and he became my only. I actually felt like I'd had this epiphany where I finally understood all the monogamous folk out there; when you find the right one... You only need and want one! Wow!

And it was really good for the first three odd years of the A. I didn't mind at all. We future faked and spent all the time we could together (which was a lot with work and extensive business travel)... But then the limerence started to dissapate and I started to see the cracks. The lack of MM really walking the talk. This is when I started posting here on LS.

This culminated in MM telling me he wasn't ever going to leave his W in February this year. At that point I reassessed and started dating and really getting out there again like I used to. I've even just started having sex with others again as well :-)

What I learnt through the A is that for me, monogamy is terrifying! It's not the commitment, I can do commitment just fine. It's that overwhelming sense that this one person is the only one I'm counting on to meet the most important of my physical and emotional needs. It's staggeringly painful to contemplate that they may choose not to. I really get that particular dimension of what a BS must go through when they discover an A. It really sucks any sense of safety right from under you!

I'm still in the A with MM but I don't really want to dwell too much on that. Back to your question on perspective... I'm never going to try being monogamous again. While at this particular point in time MM is still my most significant other, he's not all I have to count on.

I've been reminded over the course of this year just how many wonderful people there truly are in the world. I'm now more open with potential partners about who I am and what I offer and what I need. I think this radical honesty is in part my personal antitode to the hideousness of the deceit that an A entails (and that I'm still enmired in to a certain degree).

I've also been reminded of my own capacity to love and that I'm blessed. I have a wonderful xH and daughter whom I'm about to spend Christmas with. My immediate and extended family (including my x-in laws) are by and large loving and kind. I love my work. I'm dating up a storm and meeting new people; including promising potential future lovers. And from my perspective and experience I can absolutely totally romantically love more than one person at a time and hope to do so again.

Will everything be perfect? Nope. Will I love and lose and hurt? Probably. But I'm going to live and love with abundance anyway knowing in the end I'm going to better for it anyway. There hasn't been a single person in my life that I've loved that I don't still love at least a little in some way, and that didn't teach me something!

Anyway... Enough of my ramblings! If I find that really good guy you're talking about... And I love him and he betrays that love in some way... :-/ I'd be hurt and devastated of course, but also really wanting to know why. It's the why, and it's fixability or otherwise that would dictate my course of action. In any eventuality I'll live and life will go on.

Merry Christmas everyone!

December 18, 2015

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I didn't think that MOST people get married for the same reasons as me (except the MM who married for her social givings). I was trying to explain why for me it's not so easy as saying "He had an A. I must dump him". That seems to be the overwhelming advise I get.... ALL the rest of those years are my life & I LOVE my life!

I don't know how to balance the contradiction.

I agree with this quote....

"I still believe people are basically good. In my experience a happy spouse doesn't stray and is able to resist temptation. An unhappy spouse needs amazing self control, but if they honestly have integrity they won't stray unless the temptation is practically thrown at them."

....but a spouse doesn't have to be unhappy with their spouse! I'm not even really talking about my H because it's a weird EA thing. I'm talking about people I know. People talk to me. I believe that you can be deeply unhappy without it being your spouses fault. A spouse can give everything & more & their partner can still be feeling crappy about themselves & NEED something more.

I've also known several people who got divorced when they realized that they'd made a mistake & have been very happily remarried for decades.

December 18, 2015

SolG. Can I ask some questions? Genuine interest

How old we're you when you met the M for monogamy?

Do you see how complete monogamy has its own intensity or don't you think the risk is worth the gain?

Do the highs & joys of LIVING out loud compare to monogamy & marriage ever after for you?

It's 'normal' to start in the dating world by being asked out by a boy...saying yes...Asked on another date...decide Y/N....rinse & repeat. Do you mind sharing how/why you took the path less travelled?

I had my first 'boyfriend' when I was 9. We were both exactly the same height! It struck me at 20 that I had NEVER been single for more than a week since then!! I was deliberately very single for nearly a year before I started 'seeing' my H. I'm a serial monogamist.

December 18, 2015

SolG. You said, "If I find that really good guy you're talking about... And I love him and he betrays that love in some way... :-/ I'd be hurt and devastated of course, but also really wanting to know why. It's the why, and it's fixability or otherwise that would dictate my course of action.".

It's the WHY that's truly messing me up.

I've realized that the way I question when I'm mad/sad gives the answer I want in the question! e.g. "Did you mean it when you said xxxxxxx or were you feeling cornered & embarrassed?"...guess what his answer is?

I truly understand the flattery, ego strokes, even fantasy that the relationship gave him at a VERY hard, stressful time in his life. I even get the "I lied because I didn't want you to know because I didn't want to hurt you".

I don't understand the cruelty! That's not true. Any explanation I can think of for the cruelty makes him not a very nice person. His fantasy was to run-away. Get a job in the middle of no-where. Not see me, his CHILDREN, his FAMILY ever again. Occasionally visit the OW at the weekend for company & sex. He wouldn't live with her because he'd only destroy her like he has us.

My H has always been depressed. I was young & thought I could 'fix' it. He loved me so much. I loved him so much. The first time he was given antidepressants it was to quit smoking & we didn't realize they were antidepressants.

About 6 weeks later he started to change, really change. He did things that HE would NEVER do to someone he hated. He abused me. I've dealt with this part of my life) this is when he had his first fantasy EA?

The only other time he's taken antidepressants was 7 weeks before he responded to her 'reach out'....she apparently 'reached-out' once or twice a year. I've read some & they've been "Life Updates" to a group, talking about boyfriends & being artificially inseminated.

He's grumpy. He's depressive. He's passive aggressive. I was happily living with all that for 25 years. It's all for nothing if the respect isn't there. He's funny, he gets me...but if he 'gets me' he must know how much he would be hurting me?

Oh whatever!

December 18, 2015

SolG. You said, "If I find that really good guy you're talking about... And I love him and he betrays that love in some way... :-/ I'd be hurt and devastated of course, but also really wanting to know why. It's the why, and it's fixability or otherwise that would dictate my course of action.".

It's the WHY that's truly messing me up.

I've realized that the way I question when I'm mad/sad gives the answer I want in the question! e.g. "Did you mean it when you said xxxxxxx or were you feeling cornered & embarrassed?"...guess what his answer is?

I truly understand the flattery, ego strokes, even fantasy that the relationship gave him at a VERY hard, stressful time in his life. I even get the "I lied because I didn't want you to know because I didn't want to hurt you".

I don't understand the cruelty! That's not true. Any explanation I can think of for the cruelty makes him not a very nice person. His fantasy was to run-away. Get a job in the middle of no-where. Not see me, his CHILDREN, his FAMILY ever again. Occasionally visit the OW at the weekend for company & sex. He wouldn't live with her because he'd only destroy her like he has us.

My H has always been depressed. I was young & thought I could 'fix' it. He loved me so much. I loved him so much. The first time he was given antidepressants it was to quit smoking & we didn't realize they were antidepressants.

About 6 weeks later he started to change, really change. He did things that HE would NEVER do to someone he hated. He abused me. I've dealt with this part of my life) this is when he had his first fantasy EA?

The only other time he's taken antidepressants was 7 weeks before he responded to her 'reach out'....she apparently 'reached-out' once or twice a year. I've read some & they've been "Life Updates" to a group, talking about boyfriends & being artificially inseminated.

He's grumpy. He's depressive. He's passive aggressive. I was happily living with all that for 25 years. It's all for nothing if the respect isn't there. He's funny, he gets me...but if he 'gets me' he must know how much he would be hurting me?

Oh whatever!

Gently, very gently....try not to "why" yourself to death. I've made a comment similar to this already, just not directed at you specifically.

Even if he is able to give you an answer, it may never be enough, because it isn't what you want to hear or it isn't something you can understand.

December 18, 2015

No one is ever married to the person they think they are. People would be a lot better off if they would understand that the nature of humans is highly complex, and you never fully know anyone.

Agree with the statements in the post,however I think they are irrelevant .

I believe ,one should know the reasons why he/she married someone.

The fact that we do not know(fully)the person we married is a blessing,as it should fulfil our every day desire to discover new depths of the person we love(married)

December 18, 2015

I'm honestly not trying to be an ass when I ask this, but you do know where you are, right? I don't turn on Fox News and expect any criticisms of substance of George W. Bush. I don't go to an anti abortion meeting and think they will have a lot of positive things to say about the woman who agonizes about her choice. I don't walk into a VFW and think I'm going to hear great things about Iraqis and Muslims.

This is the OW/OM board. I don't see a lot of BS take responsibility in the instances where they were neglectful. This board has gone through a fantastic change since I first started posting. It used to be an Other would post and the BS would just fry them. No matter the situation, the OW needed to call the BS, tell them everything that had happened and then just go kill or mutiliate themselves.

So, that is a bit of an exaggeration. But there wasn't a lot of sympathy, even for those who were duped and didn't know the AP was married. Once the other finds out the AP is married the Other is expected to call the BS, plead for forgiveness and then tiptoe quietly away. They were to drown in their sadness and they deserved it. I'm pretty sure this is the board where the gal found out less than a month later she was pregnant. Awful things were said to her.

I still believe people are basically good. In my experience a happy spouse doesn't stray and is able to resist temptation. An unhappy spouse needs amazing self control, but if they honestly have integrity they won't stray unless the temptation is practically thrown at them.

Okay, then there are those who are just dogs. Men and women.

just for the record I do know where I'm at and I've been coming to this side of LS since my own A. I'm an xMow

December 18, 2015

I've come to realise that one person usually can't provide everything that the other needs. That does not mean that an A is ok but I'd want to know what it was they were trying to achieve with the A and figure out if we can move past that and find healthier ways to get back what's been missing. Either from each other or figure out how to fulfill that need in ourselves. It's not necessarily sex maybe it's understanding about parts of yourself you've never discovered before...only you and your WS can figure that out in your case. In my xmm's case he felt like he could talk to me and be honest with me in ways that he couldn't be with his BS because of the shared history they have. There is so much history there that sometimes that level of honesty and intimacy about things is so entrenched in past experiences and expected reactions that it's easier (possibly the wrong word to use when talking about an A but I hope you see past the word to the meaning) to do it with someone else.

The statement in bold is something I can not comprehend .
There are many reasons for that:
1. If the statement is correct,it is blame shifting from very beginning.
Is it possible to start a new relationship (even an affair)reasoning like that ?
2.Why would one expect(assume) that his/her happiness depends on the other person and how that person fulfil their needs.(assuming basic needs are satisfied)?
3.Can one add some more needs ?
4.How looks like the life of a person who is trying to fulfil the bottomless pit of needs,some people have?
In conclusion
Even Genie from Aladdin's lamp can not fulfil all needs some W.S. have

December 18, 2015

I've come to realise that one person usually can't provide everything that the other needs. That does not mean that an A is ok but I'd want to know what it was they were trying to achieve with the A and figure out if we can move past that and find healthier ways to get back what's been missing. Either from each other or figure out how to fulfill that need in ourselves. It's not necessarily sex maybe it's understanding about parts of yourself you've never discovered before...only you and your WS can figure that out in your case. In my xmm's case he felt like he could talk to me and be honest with me in ways that he couldn't be with his BS because of the shared history they have. There is so much history there that sometimes that level of honesty and intimacy about things is so entrenched in past experiences and expected reactions that it's easier (possibly the wrong word to use when talking about an A but I hope you see past the word to the meaning) to do it with someone else.

The statement in bold is something I can not comprehend .
There are many reasons for that:
1. If the statement is correct,it is blame shifting from very beginning.
Is it possible to start a new relationship (even an affair)reasoning like that ?
2.Why would one expect(assume) that his/her happiness depends on the other person and how that person fulfil their needs.(assuming basic needs are satisfied)?
3.Can one add some more needs ?
4.How looks like the life of a person who is trying to fulfil the bottomless pit of needs,some people have?
In conclusion
Even Genie from Aladdin's lamp can not fulfil all needs some W.S. have

December 18, 2015

SolG. You said, "If I find that really good guy you're talking about... And I love him and he betrays that love in some way... :-/ I'd be hurt and devastated of course, but also really wanting to know why. It's the why, and it's fixability or otherwise that would dictate my course of action.".

It's the WHY that's truly messing me up.

I've realized that the way I question when I'm mad/sad gives the answer I want in the question! e.g. "Did you mean it when you said xxxxxxx or were you feeling cornered & embarrassed?"...guess what his answer is?

I truly understand the flattery, ego strokes, even fantasy that the relationship gave him at a VERY hard, stressful time in his life. I even get the "I lied because I didn't want you to know because I didn't want to hurt you".

I don't understand the cruelty! That's not true. Any explanation I can think of for the cruelty makes him not a very nice person. His fantasy was to run-away. Get a job in the middle of no-where. Not see me, his CHILDREN, his FAMILY ever again. Occasionally visit the OW at the weekend for company & sex. He wouldn't live with her because he'd only destroy her like he has us.

My H has always been depressed. I was young & thought I could 'fix' it. He loved me so much. I loved him so much. The first time he was given antidepressants it was to quit smoking & we didn't realize they were antidepressants.

About 6 weeks later he started to change, really change. He did things that HE would NEVER do to someone he hated. He abused me. I've dealt with this part of my life) this is when he had his first fantasy EA?

The only other time he's taken antidepressants was 7 weeks before he responded to her 'reach out'....she apparently 'reached-out' once or twice a year. I've read some & they've been "Life Updates" to a group, talking about boyfriends & being artificially inseminated.

He's grumpy. He's depressive. He's passive aggressive. I was happily living with all that for 25 years. It's all for nothing if the respect isn't there. He's funny, he gets me...but if he 'gets me' he must know how much he would be hurting me?

Oh whatever!

Was the stop smoking aid Wellbutrin/Zyban?

December 18, 2015

SolG. Can I ask some questions? Genuine interest

How old we're you when you met the M for monogamy?
Do you see how complete monogamy has its own intensity or don't you think the risk is worth the gain?
Do the highs & joys of LIVING out loud compare to monogamy & marriage ever after for you?

It's 'normal' to start in the dating world by being asked out by a boy...saying yes...Asked on another date...decide Y/N....rinse & repeat. Do you mind sharing how/why you took the path less travelled?

I had my first 'boyfriend' when I was 9. We were both exactly the same height! It struck me at 20 that I had NEVER been single for more than a week since then!! I was deliberately very single for nearly a year before I started 'seeing' my H. I'm a serial monogamist.

Readers digest version for you...

I had--still have in some respects although I now understand it--quite a strong fear of abandonment. Add that to a strong streak of alternative contrarianism, and far too much beauty than I knew how to use responsibly back then... Well, my dating pattern was NEVER one boy at a time (there was also the odd girl in there as well). There were just too many options and too much fun to be had! And a very convenient way to avoid being abandoned and hurt is to never get too close to any one person.

I met my xH when I was young and we married-much to the amazement of many. My xH was the first one to ever be able to settle my fear of being abandoned because he loved me that much I just knew he would never leave. And he accepted me as I was and was happy for us both to live quite freely. I never loved him with the intensity that he loved me, but I did love him and he made me feel safe. He was my anchor relationship.

We had our daughter, and our careers took off in parallel. Life got busy. Others for me became fewer and fewer, and he stopped altogether. We were never hostile... But we drifted apart. He resented my 'inability to grow up and have a real relationship', and I resented his claustrophobic (to me) nature. When our daughter left home we decided to amicably separate. We still loved each other dearly, but recognised that we just each can't express that love the way the other requires. It was one of the most painful things I've ever been through.

The first years of separation were marvellous for me. I revelled in being free to be totally me again, but with the confidence of maturity and knowing I'm loveable. My connections were much stronger and more satisfying than they had been in my youth. And then I met MM...

To give you the ballpark, I was closish to 40 when I met MM. And he is six years my junior. At nine months in we transitioned from EA to PA. And a few months after that I became monogamous.

I must say that monogamy in combo with the A made me revisit my fear of abandonment in a big way! There were times when I seriously feared for my sanity. That having been said... I now get that joy and intensity of being the centre of someone's universe and they yours. But it's not for me.

I know so much more about what intimacy and love and vulnerability means to me now after everything. I'm thankful for every one of the experiences. I know I'm made to love more than one and love them in turn.

December 18, 2015

Both people were horribly betrayed by someone who claimed to love them. The comparison does not fail. It fails in degrees of what is acceptable in society but it does not fail in degrees of emotion.

How would you explain this to your child ?

December 18, 2015

How would you explain this to your child ?

From a very early age, children are lied to about marriage, just like they are lied to about Santa Claus. That's why they end up so scarred when mommy and daddy stop wanting to live together.

I can imagine how painful it would be to backtrack and tell a child that you lied to them about marriage. If I'd had a child with my exH, I would have explained to the child, very early on, that most marriages do not last. Parents often stop loving each other after time, and that's okay. I would say that there might be a time in the future when mommy and daddy would need to live apart forever, but that would not affect our love for the child.

You start with telling the truth, and these things don't become problematic.

December 18, 2015

My question to the single OW who were looking for what I had for most of my life.... What would you do in my situation? Knowing the MM, knowing it all... What if you find your perfect person, your love, your life & then after decades the table is turned? Your love betrays you in this way...what would you do?

Do you think you would have a deeper understanding & be able to forgive & move on? Would the knowledge of the things they've been sharing & saying to the OW make you more resolved to leave?

I was a single OW. I wasn't looking for "my perfect person" - I didn't believe that kind of thing. But during the A we fell in love, he dumped the xBW, and we've been M for several years now.

If he were to "betray" me - as many on these boards have predicted to be inevitable, because "once a cheater, always a cheater" and all that - what would I do? I'd accept that our R had failed. That, despite knowing better, and our best efforts, it didn't matter enough to either of us to make it work. And that we were now both reaping the results of our ceasing to care.

December 18, 2015

I've come to realise that one person usually can't provide everything that the other needs. That does not mean that an A is ok but I'd want to know what it was they were trying to achieve with the A and figure out if we can move past that and find healthier ways to get back what's been missing. Either from each other or figure out how to fulfill that need in ourselves. It's not necessarily sex maybe it's understanding about parts of yourself you've never discovered before...only you and your WS can figure that out in your case. In my xmm's case he felt like he could talk to me and be honest with me in ways that he couldn't be with his BS because of the shared history they have. There is so much history there that sometimes that level of honesty and intimacy about things is so entrenched in past experiences and expected reactions that it's easier (possibly the wrong word to use when talking about an A but I hope you see past the word to the meaning) to do it with someone else.

The statement in bold is something I can not comprehend .
There are many reasons for that:
1. If the statement is correct,it is blame shifting from very beginning.
Is it possible to start a new relationship (even an affair)reasoning like that ?
2.Why would one expect(assume) that his/her happiness depends on the other person and how that person fulfil their needs.(assuming basic needs are satisfied)?
3.Can one add some more needs ?
4.How looks like the life of a person who is trying to fulfil the bottomless pit of needs,some people have?
In conclusion
Even Genie from Aladdin's lamp can not fulfil all needs some W.S. have

What you've said is kind of my point and I'm sorry if that didn't come across properly in my original post. You shouldn't expect someone else to meet your every need for happiness but I think the reality is that when someone falls in love with someone they have the expectation that they will. There is no magical soul mate that will meet someone's every emotional and physical need. Those needs will change for both parties and no-one should expect someone to fulfill all of those needs. In a relationship, if you really want to make it last, you have to find a way to have both parties needs met in a healthy way which starts with recognising what those needs are.

As far as your first point about it being blame shifting, I was not in any way saying that it makes an A ok, I think I actually said that but maybe it wasn't clear enough. My point of my post was not to say 'affairs happen because of this' it was an observation on something I, personally, have learned and will be very aware of in any future relationships I may have.

December 18, 2015

I find this thread both interesting and baffling. If you knew he was married, then from day one you knew he was a liar and a cheat. You chose a liar and a cheat. Is it just that he didn't do it to you? It didn't bother you that he could do it to someone else? Thanks for any that answer.

Nope, non sequitur. He wasn't "a liar and a cheat". He was someone who chose to take at face value his then-W's expressed views on M - remembering she was a fWS, who actively assisted her friends in "cheating" on their BHs. He was someone who omitted to mention - in the myriad of other things he didn't mention, just as she never disclosed any details of her daily life to him - that he'd met someone, and that he quite fancied that person. [All they communicated about were logistics - who was picking the kids up; had the gas bill been paid; she needed him to fix the appliance she broke, etc - and this via post-it notes on the fridge.]

It wasn't just that "he didn't do it to me" - he didn't do it to anyone else, either. He treated everyone else impeccably. If she warranted special and unusual treatment, it said a great deal about her, rather than about him. And the more I got to know him, the clearer that became.

December 18, 2015

It amazes me how little empathy there is for the betrayed spouse here, and how much credence is given to the descriptions of the betrayed spouse or the marriage, when said information come from someone that is a known liar.
doesn't the entire argument re the necessity for cheating fail, even in the unlikely event that the cheater is accurately describing things, due to the fact that divorce is so readily available.
If , for example, as one poster describes, sex for this particular MM was so unsatisfying, so vanilla etc. couldn't he have simply divorced his wife vs stealing time from her and exposing her to another's sexual history and possible STDs?

perhaps in some cases, the only source is "a known liar". In other cases, there are multiple sources, all consistent and trustworthy - and sometimes the WS is not even a source. Some OW knew the BW personally before the A, others have other connections (eg know the MM through work, or friends, or family) and so readily have other sources.

And D isn't always an option, or not always an easy option. It may be "readily available" in some countries, but is far less so in others - and sometimes takes years, even where it is "readily available".

December 18, 2015

How would you explain this to your child ?

The simple answer to that is that I wouldn't. Parent's split up and it's the parent's job to protect the children and put them first when that happens and explaining the ins and outs of why the relationship failed does not do that. All you'd achieve here is causing long term damage and trust issues in the kids.

For reference, I have two kids and split up with their emotionally and verbally abusive father. I had to get several restraining orders against him and he has spent time in jail for threatening to kill me. What did I tell my kids? Mummy and daddy wont be living together anymore but we both still love you very much. When they ask why I tell them that sometimes people change which makes things different, just like you do when you grow up. Remember when you were friends with x but you're not anymore because she likes x now and you don't? Well, it's kind of like that.

All I would achieve by telling them the bad stuff is validating myself and that's not what being a parent is about.

Now, if my kids were older, grown up even and were in a position where they had to know what was going on I'd hope that I'd have raised them well enough to understand the intricacies of adult relationships and to have their own minds to decide how they want to feel about it.

December 18, 2015

DreamingofTigers. Quote - "Was the stop smoking aid Wellbutrin/Zyban?".

I'm almost certain it was Wellbutrin. Definitely NOT Zyban.

I know it sounds like an excuse but my H is often described as the kindest, most gentle, thoughtful man. He has cried when I've reminded of things he's said & done at these times (it's ONLY these times) he says it's almost like something he can sort of remembering seeing in a film. Not real.

He has done abusive things. Locking me out in the snow in a towel wet from the bath, leaving me miles & miles from home with no money or keys (NOT after an argument!), had sex & then berated me in the cruelest way while I'm scrambling for clothes etc etc etc. The things he's SAID are so, so very much worse! All the time referring to himself as "A Golden God". He could say those words without laughing before. He's a hippy!!

We have discussed the possibility of him being bi-Polar or something that antidepressants make much worse, not better. He becomes Mr Alien at times. When he tries to describe how he thinks & feels it can be frightening!

Is it the meds? The A's? His 'dark side'? It worries me how he's changing as he's aging.

You know they say 'Look at your Mother-in-Law before you marry your wife!' (I take after my Dad) do you think the same could be said of men? Do men grow to be like their fathers?

December 18, 2015

DreamingofTigers. Quote - "Was the stop smoking aid Wellbutrin/Zyban?".

I'm almost certain it was Wellbutrin. Definitely NOT Zyban.

I know it sounds like an excuse but my H is often described as the kindest, most gentle, thoughtful man. He has cried when I've reminded of things he's said & done at these times (it's ONLY these times) he says it's almost like something he can sort of remembering seeing in a film. Not real.

He has done abusive things. Locking me out in the snow in a towel wet from the bath, leaving me miles & miles from home with no money or keys (NOT after an argument!), had sex & then berated me in the cruelest way while I'm scrambling for clothes etc etc etc. The things he's SAID are so, so very much worse! All the time referring to himself as "A Golden God". He could say those words without laughing before. He's a hippy!!

We have discussed the possibility of him being bi-Polar or something that antidepressants make much worse, not better. He becomes Mr Alien at times. When he tries to describe how he thinks & feels it can be frightening!

Is it the meds? The A's? His 'dark side'? It worries me how he's changing as he's aging.

You know they say 'Look at your Mother-in-Law before you marry your wife!' (I take after my Dad) do you think the same could be said of men? Do men grow to be like their fathers?

Sorry if you've already answered this but is he in IC? Are you? He needs to get help, not just for the A but for everything else you described. I was in a relationship with someone like this. In fact, this could have been written about us We also talked about him being bi-polar or depressed but although I got him to counselling once he wouldn't go back because the therapist said he though there was something wrong with him. Go figure. Does your husband gamble or have any other addictive tenancies? Those can also be a trigger for the behaviour. Not sure which triggers which but it's a horrible vicious circle.

Anyway, fast forward a lot of years of my understanding his behaviour, trying to help him with it and going through the same kind of things you described and I realised one night when he was having one of his episodes it was like a re-run of exactly the same thing that had happened 6 years previously. Despite everything I'd done in those 6 years we were in exactly (and I do mean exactly, he was even using the same words) the same spot.

Now, I'd like to say that's when I ended things but it's not. It is when something changed in me though and I stopped enabling his behaviour as much as I had been and seriously telling him that I couldn't live like this anymore. That's when things got really bad. 3 months later on New Years Eve I was alone with the kids and he was in prison after being arrested that afternoon....stone cold sober I hasten to add.

I found from his sister after this that his father used to behave like this so yes, men grow to be like their fathers.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that your husband probably does have problems but you wont be able to solve them by being understanding and helping him through it. Also that things can get much worse. Please don't let it get to that.

Also, read The Human Magnet Syndrome. Your relationship may havelasted because you balance each other out. Just because it's lasted doesn't mean it's right or it's healthy. I thought me and my ex were right for each other because I understood him and could handle him. I was wrong. Use mine as a cautionary tale. I'm not saying you should leave him I'm just saying you can't fix this alone.

Edited December 18, 2015 by BeautifulIdiot

December 18, 2015

DreamingofTigers. Quote - "Was the stop smoking aid Wellbutrin/Zyban?".

I'm almost certain it was Wellbutrin. Definitely NOT Zyban.

I know it sounds like an excuse but my H is often described as the kindest, most gentle, thoughtful man. He has cried when I've reminded of things he's said & done at these times (it's ONLY these times) he says it's almost like something he can sort of remembering seeing in a film. Not real.

He has done abusive things. Locking me out in the snow in a towel wet from the bath, leaving me miles & miles from home with no money or keys (NOT after an argument!), had sex & then berated me in the cruelest way while I'm scrambling for clothes etc etc etc. The things he's SAID are so, so very much worse! All the time referring to himself as "A Golden God". He could say those words without laughing before. He's a hippy!!

We have discussed the possibility of him being bi-Polar or something that antidepressants make much worse, not better. He becomes Mr Alien at times. When he tries to describe how he thinks & feels it can be frightening!

Is it the meds? The A's? His 'dark side'? It worries me how he's changing as he's aging.

You know they say 'Look at your Mother-in-Law before you marry your wife!' (I take after my Dad) do you think the same could be said of men? Do men grow to be like their fathers?

I can't really speak to his behaviours because I don't know the when and where. Other to say that they are most disturbing and I went through similar things with my H when he was under care of a particular psychiatrist who didn't mind throwing every drug under the Sun at him in high dosages. Since then, it hasn't been an issue.

But there are a couple of things:

I asked about Wellbutrin/Zyban because Wellbutrin & Zyban are pretty much the same thing overall. The active ingredient is Bupropion. Which I was treated with for "depression ."

Well I sure felt better the first few nights. Then I became a raging maniac. Normally I am very easy-going. (I notice the tenor of my posts have altered to be more pissed off than empathetic since I became pregnant some four months ago). I rarely feel anger or true irritation, period. (Except when pregnant).

My husband noticed my mood shifts about two weeks into pregnancy and asked me to take the test. I went from easy-going to kind of "snappy" and I cried about my dog who died 3 years ago. I haven't cried about her for a long while. So generally my moods are stable enough to pick up on a pregnancy two weeks in.

Back to Wellbutrin. I felt rage ALL DAY LONG. Thank goodness I don't own a gun. A cashier couldn't give me change and I blew up at her. A food attendant got my order wrong, twice, and I felt my ire going up into my face. I snapped at the smallest thing my husband said. Although, he was really being an ass at the time too so it kind of changed the dynamic between us for awhile.

He views crying as manipulation and frankly he put me through a lot of crying. But when the Wellbutrin kicked in, he said something really snark to me and I kicked a box across the room and called him an 'A hole". Ironically, he recognized the anger and temper stuff as "hurt feelings."

It wasn't just that I raged and blew-up. It was that ANYTHING could set me off. And I didn't care. I had no remorse. That oddly botheted me. I knew that stuff wasn't right with me. But I was reluctant to give it up. The rage itself was a rush.

The last night I had wellbutrinwellbutrin my husband said something completely innocuous. I threw a full pan of lasagna.

Now he's a guy with a pretty good sense of humor. He really saw the change in me over the course of the weeks. He didnt want me to "cold turkey" and quit the drug.

But I knew I would probably ram someone off of the road.

I wonder how many people think they are edgy because they quit smoking, when they are going crazier from Zyban. Jeepers I almost took up smoking.

Anyways, it did end up working out okay. I quit the drug. My rage subsided within a few days. I would rage ALL DAY. I remember not being able to leave my car one day because I knew I was going to blow up at whoever I saw.

I started having empathy for my abusive father. Thinking he must be edgy and off-balance about the same as I was on the drug.

Now all that's left of that era is a running joke between husband and I about turning The Lasagna Toss into an annual event. Or occasionally if I am upset about something he'll ask if he has to hide the lasagna.

Sign In

What if you were on the other side? [infidelity related]

Recommended Posts

Lady2163

WestEndGirl

minimariah

WestEndGirl

SolG

ShatteredLady

ShatteredLady

ShatteredLady

Lady2163

DAO

ladydesigner

DAO

DAO

dreamingoftigers

SolG

DAO

WestEndGirl

cocorico

BeautifulIdiot

cocorico

cocorico

BeautifulIdiot

ShatteredLady

BeautifulIdiot

dreamingoftigers

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...