What if you were on the other side? [infidelity related]

[Lady2163]

It amazes me how little empathy there is for the betrayed spouse here, and how much credence is given to the descriptions of the betrayed spouse or the marriage, when said information come from someone that is a known liar.

doesn't the entire argument re the necessity for cheating fail, even in the unlikely event that the cheater is accurately describing things, due to the fact that divorce is so readily available.

If , for example, as one poster describes, sex for this particular MM was so unsatisfying, so vanilla etc. couldn't he have simply divorced his wife vs stealing time from her and exposing her to another's sexual history and possible STDs?

 

I think you are referring to my situation. Pardon please if you are not.

 

The MM I was seeing was a bit older as was his spouse when they married. He had dated a lot, been around the block, sowed his wild oats, etc. He was a good catch. But, he had decided that sex was not the most important thing in a marriage. He is successful and a public figure and for his situation domestic and social competence was more important than sex. In many ways, he chose wisely.

 

Fast forward 20 plus years. 20 plus years of not having satisfying sex, 20 plus years of missionary sex and I think the temptation was just too much for him.

 

Sorry, have to go.

 

My lack of sympathy for the BS is because I recognize my own shortcomings as a wife...

[ShatteredLady]

I'm still spinning (hurt, angry, shocked) that after 25 years of my life I learnt that my H was deciding if he should divorce me or not by reading a FORUM POST! It wasn't a 'real' post. It was a passive aggressive attack meant JUST for me! I can't start to describe how it felt to read it!

 

It was New Years Day evening. My parents were staying. We were all vegging watching TV. I hadn't looked at the pain forum for a week or more. He had been waiting for DAYS for me to read it!!

 

As I read the words I started to shake, felt cold & dark. So alone in a room of my family. I went into the garage where my H was smoking, asked if he wrote it (still desperately trying to hold the 1% doubt. Imaging him reading it & saying "Don't be silly! I could NEVER do that to you. I could NEVER think that about you!"). He said, "Yes! I'm tired. Going to bed!" & he walked out!

 

I spent days not sleeping. Trying to pretend that everything was 'normal' for the kids & my parents. I can't even remember what happened. I avoided my parents which has damaged our relationship. I remember asking him if there was someone else...his denial was so complete, so accusing!

 

I remember "All I see when I look in your eyes is pain management! I feel nothing.". Basically 'If you want to save our marriage 'DON'T BE SICK!'. I drove myself insane for MONTHS trying to do that!

 

When I first got home from the hospital he cooked!!! That's the first time in 25 years!! I'd battled so very hard NOT to inconvenience anyone because of my spine. That was the first time I ever stayed in bed out of a hospital.

 

Oh what does it matter. I'm still defending myself despite the fact I know he was rewriting our history. He's a man who told me that work was getting him down when I asked what was wrong. A man who couldn't even hold a conversation saying he was unhappy with anything about me.

 

I need to fix myself & move on. I'm just overwhelmed by everything. I write here to focus my brain on something other than the white blinding pain. I'm sorry.

[ladydesigner]

I think you are referring to my situation. Pardon please if you are not.

 

The MM I was seeing was a bit older as was his spouse when they married. He had dated a lot, been around the block, sowed his wild oats, etc. He was a good catch. But, he had decided that sex was not the most important thing in a marriage. He is successful and a public figure and for his situation domestic and social competence was more important than sex. In many ways, he chose wisely.

 

Fast forward 20 plus years. 20 plus years of not having satisfying sex, 20 plus years of missionary sex and I think the temptation was just too much for him.

 

Sorry, have to go.

 

My lack of sympathy for the BS is because I recognize my own shortcomings as a wife...

 

But what about the WS's shortcomings? What if the BS had less shortcomings than the WS yet the WS is the one who stepped out?

[ShatteredLady]

Quote - "But what about the WS's shortcomings? What if the BS had less shortcomings than the WS yet the WS is the one who stepped out?"

 

We ALL have shortcomings! At the start we put forward our best side. Fast forward 10-20-30years of every single day together.... Think of a person that you love completely & utterly, (even parent or child), make a list of all the good, great, fantastic things about that person.... Now focus & start your list of all of their faults....

 

Relationships, life, ebb & flow. Some of us know commitment. Some of us are prone to focus on the good...I'm a people pleaser to a fault! I can excuse most behaviors. It's crazy making when you're a people pleaser living with a person who can't be pleased but won't tell you what's wrong...

 

I hate the line, "You should know what to do if you love me! If I have to tell you you will be doing things because I told you & NOT because you love me!".

[ladydesigner]

Quote - "But what about the WS's shortcomings? What if the BS had less shortcomings than the WS yet the WS is the one who stepped out?"

 

We ALL have shortcomings! At the start we put forward our best side. Fast forward 10-20-30years of every single day together.... Think of a person that you love completely & utterly, (even parent or child), make a list of all the good, great, fantastic things about that person.... Now focus & start your list of all of their faults....

 

Relationships, life, ebb & flow. Some of us know commitment. Some of us are prone to focus on the good...I'm a people pleaser to a fault! I can excuse most behaviors. It's crazy making when you're a people pleaser living with a person who can't be pleased but won't tell you what's wrong...

 

I hate the line, "You should know what to do if you love me! If I have to tell you you will be doing things because I told you & NOT because you love me!".

 

Of course we do but it is always the BS who gets the blame on this board for whatever reason.

[Lady2163]

Again, why not simply divorce so she could go on with her life and perhaps, find a more compatible mate. As it stands now, she is being defrauded of time and opportunity. Doesn't she , as a fellow human being, deserve to know that her life is being stolen.

She does not have shortcomings, msrely different tastes,and he knew that going in. So, in essence , he has scammed her. And you respect this guy?

 

You do get that I ended things, right?

 

I believe they are compatible 99% of the time. But I also believe she withheld sex and never grew sexually. And I believe he felt it wrong to force the issue - largely because of the fact stated - he knew what he was getting when he married her. I do think he thought there would be some growth. You know, I'm a better cook than I was 20 years ago. I'm better at time management than I was 20 years ago. I'm better in the bedroom than I was 20 years ago. Sadly, I do not have the body I had 20 years ago. But I've made efforts to

 

But this is all conjecture on my part.

 

I do believe it IS a shortcoming to withhold sex and affection for long periods of time. You ask why he doesn't just divorce her and let her find someone she is more in sync with? Why doesn't she divorce him if she is unhappy? Because she isn't unhappy. Sex is a requirement, but not something demanded every day, every week....or probably every month.

 

Yes, I do respect him. He never led me on, he never pulled some of the stunts many of the MM who are players do. He was a decent friend. He never really bad mouthed her. There were a couple of times when he would tell stories, more relaying a description of events, that I would internally wince and think, "damn, she puts the kids before him a lot..." Or "he's got a cold, a broken bone, etc. would it kill her to do XYZ?" But he wasn't complaining. He didn't feel like he was being taken for granted. Men and women (and individual people) have different levels of tolerance.

 

I also dont believe having an affair is the worst thing you can do to a spouse. I've said this before on here. There's no doubt in my mind that if Gary Ridegway or Dennis Radar's wives were asked, they would probably wish their husbands only had affairs. Ruth Madoff probably wishes her husband had an affair and didn't destroy their lives the way he did (she's not the best example anymore). Women who find out too late their husbands are pedophiles and have committed horrible acts with children take years to recover.

 

Being cheated on is a betrayal. The BS on here always seem to be those who were perfect and had no shortcomings. I haven't found that as much in real life.

 

Shatteredlady - I have no words for you. Your story just reminds me that people often are just insensitive jerks. I don't know how someone gets to that point of justifying disloyalty.

 

Ladydesigner - speaking from my situation, when I was married. I don't know how you measure the shortcomings. I quit having sex with my husband, because he couldn't be bothered to make an attempt to satisfy me. If he was asked, he would probably say that sex was so infrequent he just couldn't control himself and wanted to get it done before I changed my mind ( that did happen a couple of times - I told him not to do this or that or told him that was a turn off and he would intentionally keep doing it, until I was no longer even remotely turned on). So, it does become a chicken or the egg sort of thing. If I and the communication skills I have now back then, I think I could have corrected some of the behaviors. But, that still doesn't solve the problem we just had different life goals.

[Lady2163]

Of course we do but it is always the BS who gets the blame on this board for whatever reason.

 

I'm honestly not trying to be an ass when I ask this, but you do know where you are, right? I don't turn on Fox News and expect any criticisms of substance of George W. Bush. I don't go to an anti abortion meeting and think they will have a lot of positive things to say about the woman who agonizes about her choice. I don't walk into a VFW and think I'm going to hear great things about Iraqis and Muslims.

 

This is the OW/OM board. I don't see a lot of BS take responsibility in the instances where they were neglectful. This board has gone through a fantastic change since I first started posting. It used to be an Other would post and the BS would just fry them. No matter the situation, the OW needed to call the BS, tell them everything that had happened and then just go kill or mutiliate themselves.

 

So, that is a bit of an exaggeration. But there wasn't a lot of sympathy, even for those who were duped and didn't know the AP was married. Once the other finds out the AP is married the Other is expected to call the BS, plead for forgiveness and then tiptoe quietly away. They were to drown in their sadness and they deserved it. I'm pretty sure this is the board where the gal found out less than a month later she was pregnant. Awful things were said to her.

 

I still believe people are basically good. In my experience a happy spouse doesn't stray and is able to resist temptation. An unhappy spouse needs amazing self control, but if they honestly have integrity they won't stray unless the temptation is practically thrown at them.

 

Okay, then there are those who are just dogs. Men and women.

[BeautifulIdiot]

I'm still spinning (hurt, angry, shocked) that after 25 years of my life I learnt that my H was deciding if he should divorce me or not by reading a FORUM POST! It wasn't a 'real' post. It was a passive aggressive attack meant JUST for me! I can't start to describe how it felt to read it!

 

It was New Years Day evening. My parents were staying. We were all vegging watching TV. I hadn't looked at the pain forum for a week or more. He had been waiting for DAYS for me to read it!!

 

As I read the words I started to shake, felt cold & dark. So alone in a room of my family. I went into the garage where my H was smoking, asked if he wrote it (still desperately trying to hold the 1% doubt. Imaging him reading it & saying "Don't be silly! I could NEVER do that to you. I could NEVER think that about you!"). He said, "Yes! I'm tired. Going to bed!" & he walked out!

 

I spent days not sleeping. Trying to pretend that everything was 'normal' for the kids & my parents. I can't even remember what happened. I avoided my parents which has damaged our relationship. I remember asking him if there was someone else...his denial was so complete, so accusing!

 

I remember "All I see when I look in your eyes is pain management! I feel nothing.". Basically 'If you want to save our marriage 'DON'T BE SICK!'. I drove myself insane for MONTHS trying to do that!

 

When I first got home from the hospital he cooked!!! That's the first time in 25 years!! I'd battled so very hard NOT to inconvenience anyone because of my spine. That was the first time I ever stayed in bed out of a hospital.

 

Oh what does it matter. I'm still defending myself despite the fact I know he was rewriting our history. He's a man who told me that work was getting him down when I asked what was wrong. A man who couldn't even hold a conversation saying he was unhappy with anything about me.

 

I need to fix myself & move on. I'm just overwhelmed by everything. I write here to focus my brain on something other than the white blinding pain. I'm sorry.

 

Shattered, I can't even imagine the pain you are going through; physical and emotional. You are clearly an incredibly empathetic and understanding person and have an amazing capacity for love. I hope that some time in the very near future that capacity is filled in the way you want it to be.

 

I know it's probably meaningless in the grand scheme of things but I wanted to tell you that, together with a few others here, your empathy, openness and honesty have helped me more in my healing than anything else has in the last few month. Keep that part of you strong. It has survived beyond the odds and clearly thrives to this day.

 

I know that part of you probably makes the hurt so much more but don't let it die. Do what is right for you but don't ever let anyone kill that side of you. Love in the way you know how but protect that part of you. It is incredibly special.

 

You will get through this. Everything. You will survive because you deserve to.

 

*hugs*

[BeautifulIdiot]

It's not *always* the BS who gets the blame. Everyone here is hurt. We are all broken hearted people who are trying to heal. There's never one person to blame in this situation, just a whole bunch of broken people trying to find a way to heal.

 

I wish more people could see that the BS and the OW are both different sides of the same coin. Both hurt and betrayed in their own ways. I know how horrible that is to say and how OW are not allowed to be betrayed but we both loved someone who let us down and that hurts like hell no matter who you are.

[ladydesigner]

It's not *always* the BS who gets the blame. Everyone here is hurt. We are all broken hearted people who are trying to heal. There's never one person to blame in this situation, just a whole bunch of broken people trying to find a way to heal.

 

I wish more people could see that the BS and the OW are both different sides of the same coin. Both hurt and betrayed in their own ways. I know how horrible that is to say and how OW are not allowed to be betrayed but we both loved someone who let us down and that hurts like hell no matter who you are.

 

I have often said this and totally agree! Which is why I place most of the blame on the WS.

Edited December 18, 2015 by ladydesigner

[Midwestmissy]

Lady2163, I agree with most of what you said - I'm a bs. But to say something had to be lacking in the marriage isn't always true. My husband was what was lacking. His inability or fear of dealing with issues made him look for a distraction. An affair is often a way to avoid conflict and consequences - and that avoidance is in the cheater, not the betrayed. The more he avoided reality, the worse our marriage became, and then bingo, look! he had a lousy marriage and a reason to cheat. My shortcomings didn't exist until after he was in the affair. And then I was demonized - and dumbfounded. All he gated about himself, he projected on me. And miraculously, those shortcomings went away after it ended. Now I'm so awesome and he's so sorry. Fickle, no?

 

His ap/married cow was a tool - for masturbation, for distraction, for entitlement, punishment and revenge on what he thought was a short end of an imaginary stick in his life. She didn't make the problems go away, she knowingly helped make them grow. And every lie and choice they made was a brick that built a wall between him and me, which she got off on. And now he's dealing with the original reasons for his avoidance - from before he met her. The problem was within him, he hid it from me. He's pretty embarrassed to have caused all this with someone he didn't really care that much for. So am I. I also believe that if she genuinely loved and cared for him, she would not have supported him neglecting his family. Granted, she didn't seem to care much for her own 4 kids and husband and dropped them all the time. My kids are devastated by his actions. And trust me, the kids always know.

 

This is just my story, so not a representation of all by any shot at all. I learn a lot in this forum. There are unknowing aps, not their fault, they're as clueless as the wives and that kind of manipulation and duality is psycho to me. Of course there are hideous spouses out there - but for the love of God, just leave that problem before you create another one. There are ways to end a relationship like an adult, not like a coward. Remember that no one stays because they don't want to. And cheaters are very good at doing what they want and putting their needs first. People go back to their spouses because they want to, not under duress. I guess I'm still shaking my head at 2 married 50yr olds thinking that rules didn't apply to them - with 7 kids and 2 spouses between them.

 

Nothing good ever comes from lying. Nothing. And a relationship based on the anguish of an unknowing third party and founded on layers of deceit is a ridiculous and sad way to live or start a life together.

[minimariah]

He didn't feel like he was being taken for granted.

 

this is in direct contradiction with everything else you've written about that MM and your affair.

 

Being cheated on is a betrayal. The BS on here always seem to be those who were perfect and had no shortcomings. I haven't found that as much in real life.

 

the BS on here are hurt & they come to this forum in the moments of pain and despair; when the wound is still super fresh. they are, in their pain, focused on the ones who did them wrong and it's pretty incredible to expect some great level of introspection WHILE in that stage. by the time they get into the "okay... let me really think about it" stage - they don't post as much.

 

people have very different views on the same situation -- you judge your MM's wife from your own perspective and your own shortcomings, just like you said. and that's where you're making a big mistake. in your MM's marriage, from everything you wrote - the MM knew what kind of wife he was getting. having a weak libido doesn't meant that you're witholding sex. it simply means that sex isn't that important to you. he knew how their libidos (didn't) match. when he saw that she didn't grow or develop sexually (that's NOT a shortcoming, by the way) -- he said nothing and didn't really force the issue. and BOOM. here comes the temptation.

 

to resist that temptation, all you need to do was NOT give too much of a damn for what you have at home. so it has nothing to do with self - control, it has to do with how much you're willing to risk and how much you're past the point of caring about your spouse' eventual pain.

 

the biggest mistake everyone does - they marry someone knowing that they don't fit and then wait YEARS for other party to magically change, without really trying to communicate about the issue. as the years go by, they become aware of their failed life and 20 years of an essentially unhappy marriage that they can't ever get back. it results in anger towarss their spouse and the affair seems like a great solution.

 

and no matter what - folks always turn to blame the BS. it's how we work, it's natural to us. we look for what the wronged party did wrong so we can avoid that hurt.

 

"oh, she didn't f%ck like a pornstar... i will, so i won't get cheated on!!" - that's how most think. because it's too scary to accept the fact that you can be the best wife and STILL get cheated on and that someone else's fidelity really doesn't depend on you... at all. we NEED the BS to be guilty so we can justify the affair and feel like we're two steps ahead in life. all there is to it.

 

I still believe people are basically good. In my experience a happy spouse doesn't stray and is able to resist temptation. An unhappy spouse needs amazing self control, but if they honestly have integrity they won't stray unless the temptation is practically thrown at them.

 

Okay, then there are those who are just dogs. Men and women.

 

there is no way you can box marriages and affairs in three different sections and call it a day. it's really way more complicated than that.

Edited December 18, 2015 by minimariah

[WestEndGirl]

Many years ago, in my 20s, I was not a good wife. Oh, I never cheated on him, but I gave up on the marriage, probably 4-5 years before it actually ended. ... Looking back, we didn't have the same goals. While we both were raised middle class, in intact homes, we just didn't have the same goals.... He really didn't want to work. In or out of the home. He still isn't a fan of working and has hated every job he's ever had.

 

That sums up my R with my exH right down to the letter. The only difference was that neither of us wanted kids, which is why I fought tooth and nail for my M, as crappy as it was. I didn't know if I'd ever find another man who was in tune with my lifestyle preference -- men that wanted kids, OTOH, were a dime a dozen, and I could have had my pick of the litter. I knew, logically, that I should have ended the M before things got to that point. I resented the h*ll out of my ex for being able to stay home all day long while i worked from 6 AM to 10 PM in a really demanding job. I didn't expect him to be as ambitious as I was ... just have some passion for something, and contribute just a little, even if it meant working only part time!

 

He married her knowing she would be a good wife, mother and partner. She would be suitably socially for his position in the community. But he also knew BEFORE marriage that the sex would be...poor ... I'm not quite sure I know why she married him. I think she has throughly enjoyed being a mother. I think she has enjoyed the income. But, if it had been more acceptable at the time and she had had the income, I could totally see her as one of those women who went for in vitro with an anonymous donor.

 

What would I do if I was in her position? I just don't know.

 

That's my MM's M, too. They were platonic friends; there was no question of them being " in love." I think that he married her because he knew she'd be a good mother to his kids. I don't think he considered if she'd be a good wife. Those are two very different things. I know what I'd do if I were actually her. I'd ride the gravy train till the kids were out of the house (I'd grin and bear it and count down the days ... ), and then I'd take him for half of everything he owned. But because I'm me, I'd leave, take nothing and maintain the same standard of living. Nothing about my life would change, except he'd no longer be in it.

[BeautifulIdiot]

There is a pretty clear distinction, or distinctions, between an OW/OM and a betrayed spouse. It is probably too obvious to go into detail, but any rational person can see why the comparison fails in so many ways.

 

 

Both people were horribly betrayed by someone who claimed to love them. The comparison does not fail. It fails in degrees of what is acceptable in society but it does not fail in degrees of emotion.

[minimariah]

But, he had decided that sex was not the most important thing in a marriage.

 

this is interesting - when you think about who is to blame... then it is, without a doubt - EXCLUSIVELY your MM.

 

he chose and then after a couple of years decided that he didn't really like what he chose... so he blamed it on that same spouse he CHOSE, because she didn't grow the way HE imagined she would... out of so many that could have been a better match for him.

 

it's like me tasting every single donut in the shop but chosing the one without the chocolate on top. then i wait for 20 years for the chocolate to magically appear on the top and when it doesn't - i blame it on the stupid donut instead on my own stupidity and poor judgement.

 

your MM trully did get exactly what he wanted. that is, in no way, his wife's fault. it's super hard being betrayed by a "settler" - they ruin their own lives and the BS's lives pretty much on purpose, while knowing better the entire time. that's a super bitter pill to swallow.

[BeautifulIdiot]

I can't wait to hear tge twisted logic that will be employed to address this question. Should be educational.

 

No way anyone could argue this. You shouldn't have signed up for it if it was not what you want. This, as it was described originally, is the worst excuse I could ever imagine for an A. Ever.

[WestEndGirl]

I can't wait to hear tge twisted logic that will be employed to address this question. Should be educational.

 

Sheesh, I can't believe it! Krashi and I actually agree on one thing! If the sex sucked before you got married, there is nothing you can do to change that. Why pledge to spend the rest of your life with someone with whom you are not physically compatible? I mean, it's really not that hard to figure out that this will inevitably end in someone's feelings getting trashed.

[minimariah]

Why pledge to spend the rest of your life with someone with whom you are not physically compatible?

 

one word - SETTLERS. and the most interesting thing - settlers are desirable, usually popular people who have choice... it's the fear of being hurt that blocks them out. also -- madonna - whore complex.

 

i avoid them like a plague.

[WestEndGirl]

one word - SETTLERS. and the most interesting thing - settlers are desirable, usually popular people who have choice... it's the fear of being hurt that blocks them out. also -- madonna - whore complex.

 

i avoid them like a plague.

 

Interesting you point that out, minimariah. Yeah, I went through a stage like that ... in adolescence. I think that there is some truth to this, though. Especially knowing MM as I do. What's also interesting is that his W is considerably less attractive than he is. I remember seeing a photograph of them together for the first time--long before we became involved--and thinking, "Whoa! I didn't expect that." Not that looks are everything, but this is a couple that you would not put together in your wildest dreams.

[Lady2163]

If he was pretty vanilla in the sack with you, then he lacked the expertise to develop with his wife. Yet, you claimshe failed to grow as he did.

So, if he had grown so uch, leaving her in the dust, why was he so underdeveloped in this area when you began having sex with him.

Little discrepencies in logic like this reveal that he or you, or botb of you, are lying about his wife's attitudes or capabilities.

See, it makes no sense. He was vanilla, but had outgrown his wife.

But, I am sure this can all be explained, right. I am sure you have actual, first hand knowledge of her proclivities, independent of the information that the cheater casually and unintentionally dispensed in passing.

I mean he could not have , periodically, over time casualky mentioned this stuff about her unless it was absolutely true, right? For God's sake, the guy is so honest and what possible motivation could he have to lie?

 

My exact phrase was, "he was pretty damn vanilla in the sack with me for a long time."

 

Not for all time. And I was the one who usually introduced something new or tried something he/we hadn't done before.

 

He had been around the block a bit before he married. He had experienced other women. He had eve had a couple girls who liked giving oral sex. Which he liked receiving.

 

It served no purpose for him to lie. It didn't make me feel sorry for him. It didn't change my behavior. Do I know EXACTLY what happens in their marriage bed? Nope. Do I have a pretty good idea? Well, yes. I know it can be tough for people to truly fathom how others live, but both raised in towns of less than 1000 people. Conservative Christian upbringing. Lots of guilt thrown on them by parents, ministers and school about sex. Masturbatuon is a sin. Oral sex is a sin, wasting husbands semen is bad. Sex is for procreation only. Add to that some of the comments he made and I have an idea.

 

These are things many people can't comprehend. It is as alien to me as separate bathrooms and drinking fountains for blacks and whites.

 

 

This has to be an awful place for BS to come when they hurt. I stay out of the infidelity forum when I'm in pain. My words and for that matter the words of people cheerfully in the affair fog just have to be rubbing an open wound raw.

 

I may not be able to explain through both limitations of the written word and the limited details I'm willing to say on the Internet, but yes, I still think he's a good guy. I'm not sorry I had the experience with him. I'm not a bad person.

[minimariah]

This has to be an awful place for BS to come when they hurt. I stay out of the infidelity forum when I'm in pain. My words and for that matter the words of people cheerfully in the affair fog just have to be rubbing an open wound raw.

 

i actually think this forum can be SUPER useful for a BS. & i'd recommend this forum over Infidelity forum for a BS any day. i truly believe it helps with healing & facing the painful reality.

 

that being said - your words stood out because you blamed your MM's failed marriage MOSTLY on the BS & her NOT really being adventurous in bed... when in reality; the BS was ALWAYS like that. so your MM's unhappy marriage is due to his poor decision in choosing a spouse & poor grasp on life - like you said; he married a good mother and a good wife because what others think of him matters far more than how compatible and crazy in love he and his spouse are. it's like that for many people.

 

when you said "been around the block" - i expected a full on experimenting with same sex, BDSM, group sex, swapping... but if "been around the block" means that oral sex was a HIGHLIGHT for him...? yeah... then that's really poor when it comes to sex experience.

 

Interesting you point that out, minimariah. Yeah, I went through a stage like that ... in adolescence. I think that there is some truth to this, though. Especially knowing MM as I do. What's also interesting is that his W is considerably less attractive than he is. I remember seeing a photograph of them together for the first time--long before we became involved--and thinking, "Whoa! I didn't expect that." Not that looks are everything, but this is a couple that you would not put together in your wildest dreams.

 

i know that feeling. i'm not the one to put down others for their looks but settlers aren't folks who couldn't marry so they choose the first person the could... they're usually good looking folks who "downgrade" on purpose. spouse isn't good looking, doesn't have equal education, doesn't earn as much money, is usually introverted and doesn't have many friends... settlers play it safe with folks they feel are "beneath" them. so even if that person does leave - no pain.

 

settlers also feel an inredible amount of resentment towards their spouse - it reflects in the affair; many use it as some form of punishment for the spouse.

[ShatteredLady]

We didn't get married because he thought I'd be good at cleaning a house or throwing dinner parties for business associates. I didn't think, 'he will be a good provider'...he didn't even have a car. He couldn't even drive! He earnt just above minimum wage! I wouldn't of cared if he was a busker, street musician. If he loved it & it made him happy..GREAT!!

 

If I wanted money & a certain life style I'd of provided it & did! Why would I choose a partner to provide for me? I'm an educated woman.

 

I don't know people like that. From TV I know there are people who are one step away from arranged marriage. It's all about what each GETS from the other.

 

I've had business deals go bad. I never shed a tear. Why on earth would I?

 

We got married because we dearly loved each other. We wanted to be FAMILY. We wanted to join our families together with a FANTASTIC party & waited 6 years to be sure. We waited 10 years after our wedding day to have our first baby because we were living OUR life. Enjoying each other, enjoying OUR life. We were very aware of the joys & sacrifices of becoming parents.

 

I thought that we were like most people. You find your person, your love & want to share your lives, 'for better & worse' & all that stuff. You look deep into those eyes you know better than your own & sincerely say those vows BECAUSE you LOVE each other.

 

Anyone who didn't find adultery or divorce a big deal is very lucky & VERY sad! That incredible, amazing day can't of meant very much to you.

 

My parents are still together & still very much in love. They would do anything for me because I'm their child & they love me unconditionally. That's what FAMILY is to me. Why can people understand that loosing my brother, my only sibling, was a devastating, heart wrenching, life changing experience but can't see that being betrayed by my husband was as bad, if not worse?!?

 

In one moment, reading one forum post, my entire perception of reality changed. I lost my FAMILY, my LOVE, my PARTNER, my BEST FRIEND. I've compared it to the pope dying & being met by Buddha saying "Dude, you got it so wrong!".

 

He's never been just some man. We grew-up together. We're not cynics trying to correct a business arrangement. Every memory, every experience includes him.

 

Since my brother died so tragically my parents can't bare talking about our childhood, our life, because it reminds them & hurts them. Their eyes mist & they avoid because of the pain. My EXISTENCE, my past, my life makes them sad. I've lost my childhood. My family memories.

 

Now I feel like I'm loosing my adulthood! If its what you say it is....only of value when you're giving & fulfilling needs, then it's all been lies! He's not family, he's just a man.

 

"Together we'll see things I'd never see!". My life, EVERYTHING is different without my love. Only he knows me, has shared all of those moments that make a lifetime. My past & my future are covered with a shadow of pain.

 

On the other forums they say "Man-up. Dump him & find a man who will love & cherish you". People aren't replaceable!! It's not like a car...s**t I'm even sad when I have to get a new car because I'm loosing something that holds memories for me!!

 

I'm sick. I'm damaged. I'm broken. Stick me out on a snowy mountain because I'm just a burden. That's what it comes down to after 25 years. Maybe I'm a hapless romantic, delusional. I'm just so terminally sad.

 

Feeling has given me much joy in my life. I wouldn't swap places with someone who can rationalize without love & passion...that would render my life even more meaningless than it is now!

[Lady2163]

i actually think this forum can be SUPER useful for a BS. & i'd recommend this forum over Infidelity forum for a BS any day. i truly believe it helps with healing & facing the painful reality.

 

that being said - your words stood out because you blamed your MM's failed marriage MOSTLY on the BS & her NOT really being adventurous in bed... when in reality; the BS was ALWAYS like that. so your MM's unhappy marriage is due to his poor decision in choosing a spouse & poor grasp on life - like you said; he married a good mother and a good wife because what others think of him matters far more than how compatible and crazy in love he and his spouse are. it's like that for many people.

 

when you said "been around the block" - i expected a full on experimenting with same sex, BDSM, group sex, swapping... but if "been around the block" means that oral sex was a HIGHLIGHT for him...? yeah... then that's really poor when it comes to sex experience.

 

 

 

i know that feeling. i'm not the one to put down others for their looks but settlers aren't folks who couldn't marry so they choose the first person the could... they're usually good looking folks who "downgrade" on purpose. spouse isn't good looking, doesn't have equal education, doesn't earn as much money, is usually introverted and doesn't have many friends... settlers play it safe with folks they feel are "beneath" them. so even if that person does leave - no pain.

 

settlers also feel an inredible amount of resentment towards their spouse - it reflects in the affair; many use it as some form of punishment for the spouse.

 

Wait. Wait. WAIT.

 

MM is still in the marriage. I ended things 20 some months ago. No DDAY. He was married for 20 years ish before having an affair. I do not think he will have another. It isn't a failed marriage. I'd like to think they are both happy. I think he is very happy with his wife 99% of the time. I don't think he would leave her for anyone. From different stories and anecdotes, I FEEL she sometimes takes him for granted or puts the kids before him. He doesn't/didn't express that view.

 

I think he was more logic based in his decision. I don't think he was crazy in love with her. I don't think he is the type of person to be crazy in love. Too cerebral, too scientific, too analytical.

 

He started a small side business that just exploded. He started a community project that should have been a small time one off and that exploded - and made him money as well. Even as a young man he was a bit of a workaholic. I used to tell him it was annoying as hell that his hobbies earned him more than my "real job."

 

I'm going through what I have called the 'fighting a ghost phase.' I miss him and this takes the place of calling him and telling him that I miss him and being weak and falling into the trap. We are in LC. A comfortable LC. I don't want to be the temptation for him, but I do miss him.

 

Damn. I've been around the block as well, but not by your standards!

[minimariah]

I'd like to think they are both happy.

 

but in your previous posts -- you said happy spouses don't stray; unhappy do. so with that logic - your MM is unhappy. he just isn't unhappy enough to leave the comfort of being a successful man who has it all.

 

from everything you wrote - it doesn't look like a DECENT marriage, let alone a happy one. but, like i said... he knew what he was getting himself into.

 

it's entirely different thing when you marry someone who is super free and open in sex and then they go quiet on you. they start neglect you and go from having wild sex on a washer to having 5minute sex once a year - in THOSE situations... we can talk about the BS bearing responsibility for problems that led to the affair. only then.

[Lady2163]

but in your previous posts -- you said happy spouses don't stray; unhappy do. so with that logic - your MM is unhappy. he just isn't unhappy enough to leave the comfort of being a successful man who has it all.

 

from everything you wrote - it doesn't look like a DECENT marriage, let alone a happy one. but, like i said... he knew what he was getting himself into.

 

it's entirely different thing when you marry someone who is super free and open in sex and then they go quiet on you. they start neglect you and go from having wild sex on a washer to having 5minute sex once a year - in THOSE situations... we can talk about the BS bearing responsibility for problems that led to the affair. only then.

 

Jesus. You beat a dead horse. THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE SAYS, "I think he is happy with his wife 99% of the time."

 

I do not agree with you. You do not agree with me. It has been like this before with you.