last steps in healing

[katielee]

 

Why did you betray your values? Not thinking clearly. Following emotion. Same.

 

yep. but I still had no right..

 

I would like more compassion and appreciation for staying here, so he can live the life he wants after affairs.

[xxoo]

yep. but I still had no right..

 

I would like more compassion and appreciation for staying here, so he can live the life he wants after affairs.

 

How do you currently show compassion and appreciation toward each other?

 

What specifically would you like to see added?

[Mr Blunt]

By Katielee

I agree with part of this. I think forgiving oneself is harder than simply making a decision... It has to be felt deep within. If I haven't forgiven myself and it is impacting this choice then I don't know how to.

You are right Katie and you cannot forgive yourself with one decision or just with your own power. If your power could do that you would have already accomplished that. However, your decisions and attitudes play an important part.

Many spiritual faiths focus on forgiveness.

Do you have a spiritual faith?

How much effort have you taken to find out how to forgive yourself?

 

If you do not forgive yourself you will not be able to get a lot better.

 

 

 

 

 

By Katie

However, I do consider myself a giver. Every day he drives off and works next door to OW1. I think this is incredibly giving of me. If you knew me IRL you would say I'm a huge giver. I took care of his mom when his dad died.. I send him to work with homemade goodies so he is the hero of the bank. I do this ALL THE TIME. And that is probably the number one reason he loves me - because I am a giver.

 

I know that you are a giver. I said that you can “become MORE of a giver” (see reprint below)

 

 

By Blunt

 

You are unhappy because you have not forgiven yourself and done the follow up work to become more of a giver than a person that is more needy than you need to be

.

[katielee]

You are right Katie and you cannot forgive yourself with one decision or just with your own power. If your power could do that you would have already accomplished that. However, your decisions and attitudes play an important part.

Many spiritual faiths focus on forgiveness.

Do you have a spiritual faith?

How much effort have you taken to find out how to forgive yourself?

 

If you do not forgive yourself you will not be able to get a lot better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know that you are a giver. I said that you can “become MORE of a giver” (see reprint below)

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

I have tried really hard to forgive myself. I was a good person before that, I've been a good person since. I've acted with integrity since. I've worked hard on myself and how to make myself a safe partner... I think I deserve forgiveness.

 

Let's just say I've had a crisis of faith since this all started. I don't understand the lesson I'm supposed to learn. Do things happen for a reason? If so, what's the reason?

 

more of a giver? I'm about all given out.

[katielee]

How do you currently show compassion and appreciation toward each other?

 

What specifically would you like to see added?

 

we are both so good at thanking the other one for little jobs we do for each other. Like, him getting gas for me, or me cleaning up. Buying ALL the kids gifts so he doesn't have to - it causes him anxiety so I will gladly do this for him. I sent his Mom very meaningful gifts. He calls me every day. I text him funny things. Yesterday, I asked him if he wanted to go with me to a trial bootcamp class and even though we were some of the oldest ones there among about 100 ppl, he went with and we kept our eyes on each other and I made sure I worked out right next to him, as he was a newbie and I was not... Then this morning, we went to hot yoga and I set his towel down next to mine and we did that together... I will make the Christmas meal and he will do the dishes. When we had our anniversary last month we wrote letters to each other telling the other what we loved about them...

 

so when I speak of appreciation and compassion, I just want that when I see them or when we speak of how hard it is for me to live here, which isn't often. The day to day stuff we rock at. The hard stuff - not so much.

[Bittersweetie]

katielee, there seems to be anger in your posts, and I wondered while reading, are you still angry with yourself for the choices you made? And that anger is manifesting in being angry with your H? Not that you don't have a right to be with him, I don't have experience with RAs, but I was a WW. And six years later, I still have a lot of anger at myself for what I did. Deep, deep anger.

 

I realized though I had to tame that anger or it would take over. So I now have a lot of anger for the person I was at the time of the A...not me. Does that make sense? I know it sounds silly but separating the "me"s in my head helped with taming that anger. I know I'll have to work through it at some point, but we had a kid and my mental energy is focused on that right now. But I know its there, and I nod my head to it regularly without letting it take over my thoughts and life.

 

I'm not sure if this helps at all...just throwing an idea out there.

[Mr Blunt]

By katielee

I have tried really hard to forgive myself. I was a good person before that, I've been a good person since. I've acted with integrity since. I've worked hard on myself and how to make myself a safe partner... I think I deserve forgiveness

.

Thinking you deserve forgiveness and believing and experiencing forgiveness are not the same. My guess is that you do not believe deeply that you are forgiven.

 

 

 

 

 

By katielee

Let's just say I've had a crisis of faith since this all started. I don't understand the lesson I'm supposed to learn. Do things happen for a reason? If so, what's the reason?

 

Do things happen for a reason? I am just going to answer that question based upon your situation. The answer is NO! What happened was that you and your husband decided to succumb to your lower nature and betray each other. That did not happen because some other force made it happen for some reason. You both had free will and decide to take the negative path. God had nothing to do with that.

 

Now that you both have damaged yourselves you can use your free will and attitudes to gain in a positive ways in some areas. God can have a lot to do with positives and is especially good at helping you forgive yourself.

[xxoo]

we are both so good at thanking the other one for little jobs we do for each other. Like, him getting gas for me, or me cleaning up. Buying ALL the kids gifts so he doesn't have to - it causes him anxiety so I will gladly do this for him. I sent his Mom very meaningful gifts. He calls me every day. I text him funny things. Yesterday, I asked him if he wanted to go with me to a trial bootcamp class and even though we were some of the oldest ones there among about 100 ppl, he went with and we kept our eyes on each other and I made sure I worked out right next to him, as he was a newbie and I was not... Then this morning, we went to hot yoga and I set his towel down next to mine and we did that together... I will make the Christmas meal and he will do the dishes. When we had our anniversary last month we wrote letters to each other telling the other what we loved about them...

 

so when I speak of appreciation and compassion, I just want that when I see them or when we speak of how hard it is for me to live here, which isn't often. The day to day stuff we rock at. The hard stuff - not so much.

 

The other side is compassion for him, and how difficult it is for him to speak about all this stuff. Compassion for how hard that is for him.

 

Do you think he doesn't appreciate it? Or that he just can't bear to talk about it? You hold out on praise of his work because it's a point of resentment for you. Does that mean you don't appreciate his hard work and success? Of course not. If he insisted on verbal appreciation for his job, would you feel he was being compassionate toward you?

 

It's a mess. But it's not unjust. He basically wants the marriage to be back to how it was before the affairs. And since he did nothing to cause the first affair, that seems reasonable to me.

 

Lessons to learn: Don't look to others for happiness; it comes from inside. Practice gratitude. Practice forgiveness. Practice acceptance--of yourself first, then of others.

[katielee]

.

Thinking you deserve forgiveness and believing and experiencing forgiveness are not the same. My guess is that you do not believe deeply that you are forgiven.

 

 

 

by whom? God? My husband? Myself? I don't know how to get there then. I have prayed. I have talked in my heart to God. I don't know what else to do.

I have asked for help from God. To send me some sign, person, anything to put me on the right path or send me in the right direction...

[Whoknew30]

by whom? God? My husband? Myself? I don't know how to get there then. I have prayed. I have talked in my heart to God. I don't know what else to do.

I have asked for help from God. To send me some sign, person, anything to put me on the right path or send me in the right direction...

 

Maybe bc my husband told me I needed to forgive myself, it made it that much easier. I knew from the way you said you'd run if you saw exOM you haven't forgiven yourself. Have you told your husband, you can't forgive yourself & it's really eating at you? If you haven't, then you're not being as "open"'as you think you are...the day you truly forgive, wether it's yourself or anyone in any situation, is the day you're truly at 100% peace. You can get there but it won't come from a therapist. That can only come from you internally.

[katielee]

The other side is compassion for him, and how difficult it is for him to speak about all this stuff. Compassion for how hard that is for him.

 

Do you think he doesn't appreciate it? Or that he just can't bear to talk about it? You hold out on praise of his work because it's a point of resentment for you. Does that mean you don't appreciate his hard work and success? Of course not. If he insisted on verbal appreciation for his job, would you feel he was being compassionate toward you?

 

It's a mess. But it's not unjust. He basically wants the marriage to be back to how it was before the affairs. And since he did nothing to cause the first affair, that seems reasonable to me.

 

Lessons to learn: Don't look to others for happiness; it comes from inside. Practice gratitude. Practice forgiveness. Practice acceptance--of yourself first, then of others.

 

Really?, I DO have compassion for that because we NEVER speak of it... just how he wants it. I have recently complimented him on how his job made it easy for us to buy the lake home and be comfortable financially... I just said that. But heck, if I don't mention every single thing then I'm picked apart.

 

I disagree about it being unjust. Of course he wants the marriage to be back to what it used to be. I want it better. I want to be able to speak. To talk. To be able to tell the person I love the most what is on my soul. But I cannot. Because he still has shame and I'm trying to be compassionate towards how he handles things... believe me, things are near exactly as they were before affairs... only now that hurt is thrown in there..

 

And I did nothing to cause his affairs... Jeez, we can go back to the beginning of time when he didn't help with the kids or left me alone when I was in labor. Who the eff cares how our pain and resentment starts. What we do with that pain and how we cope with it is the issue.

Neither of us had any right to do what we did.

[katielee]

Maybe bc my husband told me I needed to forgive myself, it made it that much easier. I knew from the way you said you'd run if you saw exOM you haven't forgiven yourself. Have you told your husband, you can't forgive yourself & it's really eating at you? If you haven't, then you're not being as "open"'as you think you are...the day you truly forgive, wether it's yourself or anyone in any situation, is the day you're truly at 100% peace. You can get there but it won't come from a therapist. That can only come from you internally.

 

Yeah, I would run out of compassion for my husband. HE wouldn't want me to see him either... that is what HE wants!!!

Have I told my husband I haven't forgiven myself? No, because I thought I had. I can sit here and say I have and mean it.

[xxoo]

Really?, I DO have compassion for that because we NEVER speak of it... just how he wants it. I have recently complimented him on how his job made it easy for us to buy the lake home and be comfortable financially... I just said that. But heck, if I don't mention every single thing then I'm picked apart.

 

I disagree about it being unjust. Of course he wants the marriage to be back to what it used to be. I want it better. I want to be able to speak. To talk. To be able to tell the person I love the most what is on my soul. But I cannot. Because he still has shame and I'm trying to be compassionate towards how he handles things... believe me, things are near exactly as they were before affairs... only now that hurt is thrown in there..

 

And I did nothing to cause his affairs... Jeez, we can go back to the beginning of time when he didn't help with the kids or left me alone when I was in labor. Who the eff cares how our pain and resentment starts. What we do with that pain and how we cope with it is the issue.

Neither of us had any right to do what we did.

 

Ok, now you're changing the story again and coming up with bad things before the affairs that you want to change. That's the question I asked much earlier in the thread. Round and round.

 

Focus on this. Focus on fixing the communication issue--but not with regard to the affairs.

 

Other than the affairs, what is unsatisfying to you about the marriage?

 

Saying you did nothing to cause his affairs is correct in philosophy but delusional in reality.

[katielee]

katielee, there seems to be anger in your posts, and I wondered while reading, are you still angry with yourself for the choices you made? And that anger is manifesting in being angry with your H? Not that you don't have a right to be with him, I don't have experience with RAs, but I was a WW. And six years later, I still have a lot of anger at myself for what I did. Deep, deep anger.

 

I realized though I had to tame that anger or it would take over. So I now have a lot of anger for the person I was at the time of the A...not me. Does that make sense? I know it sounds silly but separating the "me"s in my head helped with taming that anger. I know I'll have to work through it at some point, but we had a kid and my mental energy is focused on that right now. But I know its there, and I nod my head to it regularly without letting it take over my thoughts and life.

 

I'm not sure if this helps at all...just throwing an idea out there.

 

thank you for being kind in this post.

 

There is a part of me that says, "I caused all this." and there is a part of me that says, wait a minute, I'm not responsible for his actions...(woefully missing on this thread) so, when go back and forth between thinking you have caused your own pain and trying to not be a doormat, well, it takes a toll. You don't know WHERE to land!

it would be great if the anger was gone. most books tell you why you shouldn't be angry. But they never tell you HOW to get rid of it.

[katielee]

 

Other than the affairs, what is unsatisfying to you about the marriage?

 

Saying you did nothing to cause his affairs is correct in philosophy but delusional in reality.

 

 

first question - nothing about the marriage in general, would like him to be more open about thoughts and about me coming to him with concerns.

 

I'm not taking any responsibility for his affairs. None... as he shouldn't take any for mine.

[xxoo]

first question - nothing about the marriage in general, would like him to be more open about thoughts and about me coming to him with concerns.

 

I'm not taking any responsibility for his affairs. None...

 

So was the marriage bad or not?

 

Would he have cheated if you hadn't?

 

I think that anger and pride are standing in your way. Humility and accepting responsibility for destroying him and your marriage could open up a well of compassion and love from him.

[katielee]

So was the marriage bad or not?

 

Would he have cheated if you hadn't?

 

I think that anger and pride are standing in your way. Humility and accepting responsibility for destroying him and your marriage could open up a well of compassion and love from him.

 

marriage wasn't bad. not sure if he would have cheated. We'll never know. he never did before and we had 24 years before that so I am saying I don't think so... although I guess I'll never know as I caught him both times. Didnt' think to spy before hand.

I accept that I destroyed him and our marriage. ground zero. house burned down..

I won't accept the responsibility of his reactions to that pain.

[Whoknew30]

marriage wasn't bad. not sure if he would have cheated. We'll never know. he never did before and we had 24 years before that so I am saying I don't think so... although I guess I'll never know as I caught him both times. Didnt' think to spy before hand.

I accept that I destroyed him and our marriage. ground zero. house burned down..

I won't accept the responsibility of his reactions to that pain.

 

You have to accept responsibility or you're never going to heal. What's going to happen if you do? You might let it go & be happy? How awful to have to put your ego aside for a second, get over all of it & move on & have a happy marriage. He's not the reason you're not happy & you have to except responsibility for that too.

[katielee]

When any person hangs on so tightly to negative emotions there is something they gain by doing so!

 

What do you gain?

 

Can you search your ego and adjust what is needed to feed that ego?

 

well, I'm usually not a negative person until i hang out here, having to defend myself....

no one IRL would call me negative...

 

I wish I could answer your questions but I have no clue. my IC said the same thing about anger - what's the pay off. No idea. as if people can simply decide not to be angry and they're never haunted by that feeling again.

 

I would say it's ego and my struggle for power in this marriage. Someone is going to come on here and say, "there shouldn't be a power struggle in marriage. blah blah blah" But there is. In ours. And I have no idea why. But I'm willing to look at it. I feel like he won the game. Whereas, we both lost. And I don't know what to do to get us both winning again. Except a forgiveness and acceptance that seems to elude me.

 

My affair = the one time in our marriage he did not get his way. Otherwise - he made all the decisions.

Please don't bash me for this. I need honest feedback instead of just CHANGE ALREADY! I'm being brutally honest here. Sometimes things need to be teased out of people...

[katielee]

You have to accept responsibility or you're never going to heal.

 

why would I accept responsibility for something I didn't do?

that would be so very c0dependent and enabling of him.

[Whoknew30]

why would I accept responsibility for something I didn't do?

that would be so very c0dependent and enabling of him.

 

No, it would be being a woman & saying to yourself, I destroyed the trust in my marriage & he felt he had to run to someone else. There are many consequences to having an A, one of yours is he did it back to you. Enabling would be, being ok with it continually happening but it didn't. He handled his emotions wrong but that was his reaction. If you didn't want that reaction, you should have never done it. If you punch a person in the face, don't you expect that one of their reactions might be to punch you back?

[katielee]

No, it would be being a woman & saying to yourself, I destroyed the trust in my marriage & he felt he had to run to someone else. There are many consequences to having an A, one of yours is he did it back to you. Enabling would be, being ok with it continually happening but it didn't. He handled his emotions wrong but that was his reaction. If you didn't want that reaction, you should have never done it. If you punch a person in the face, don't you expect that one of their reactions might be to punch you back?

 

 

if a drunk ran over a kid who's to blame if the kids parent runs over the drunk's kid? The drunk?

so I would be ok having a RA? cuz after all, he got two I should get two.

nice logic.

[ladydesigner]

well, I'm usually not a negative person until i hang out here, having to defend myself....

no one IRL would call me negative...

 

I wish I could answer your questions but I have no clue. my IC said the same thing about anger - what's the pay off. No idea. as if people can simply decide not to be angry and they're never haunted by that feeling again.

 

I would say it's ego and my struggle for power in this marriage. Someone is going to come on here and say, "there shouldn't be a power struggle in marriage. blah blah blah" But there is. In ours. And I have no idea why. But I'm willing to look at it. I feel like he won the game. Whereas, we both lost. And I don't know what to do to get us both winning again. Except a forgiveness and acceptance that seems to elude me.

 

My affair = the one time in our marriage he did not get his way. Otherwise - he made all the decisions.

Please don't bash me for this. I need honest feedback instead of just CHANGE ALREADY! I'm being brutally honest here. Sometimes things need to be teased out of people...

 

Katielee I understand although our situations are sort of reversed, I had a RA after my WH's first infidelity. Even though we BOTH did the same thing I feel I am resentful at my WH for how he handled the aftermath of his A. He had no remorse and no empathy for me. Even going on to have an LTA I am disappointed in WHO my WH is. Do you think maybe you are disappointed at how your WH chose to handle the aftermath?

[xxoo]

why would I accept responsibility for something I didn't do?

that would be so very c0dependent and enabling of him.

 

You don't do it for him. You don't even have to tell him about it.

 

You do it for you. To soften your heart toward your husband and understand why he did what he did--which is completely understandable to me.

 

So instead of thinking, "I can't control his choices" (technically true), think, "he would never have done those terrible things if I hadn't cheated first" (common sense truth).

 

well, I'm usually not a negative person until i hang out here, having to defend myself....

no one IRL would call me negative...

 

I wish I could answer your questions but I have no clue. my IC said the same thing about anger - what's the pay off. No idea. as if people can simply decide not to be angry and they're never haunted by that feeling again.

 

I would say it's ego and my struggle for power in this marriage. Someone is going to come on here and say, "there shouldn't be a power struggle in marriage. blah blah blah" But there is. In ours. And I have no idea why. But I'm willing to look at it. I feel like he won the game. Whereas, we both lost. And I don't know what to do to get us both winning again. Except a forgiveness and acceptance that seems to elude me.

 

My affair = the one time in our marriage he did not get his way. Otherwise - he made all the decisions.

Please don't bash me for this. I need honest feedback instead of just CHANGE ALREADY! I'm being brutally honest here. Sometimes things need to be teased out of people...

 

So your affair was a power grab that failed horribly. He predictably out-maneuvered you.

 

What work have you done to understand and prevent power struggles in relationships? I did a ton of reading on this topic after having my first child in order to live peacefully and happily with my husband and daughter. I changed me, and the power struggles disappeared. It's actually a pretty easy thing to avoid, but it takes a change in mindset. Power grab, predictably, fails.

 

Have you bought books on the topic? (I bought several)

[katielee]

Thanks LD. Yes, especially since he knew how it felt. I get that he just fell into the first affair. But the second one was sought out, justified by the fact that "I had two so he got to have two" even though I was raped. And the fact that he thinks I should be ok with occasionally seeing the woman I caught him on top of going at it well, those are hard pills to swallow...