last steps in healing

[ShatteredLady]

Are you an English teacher? Your compulsiveness does make me smile!

 

Note. Realize that some of us use USA autocorrect. The linguistic colors of the world! (sorry. My wit meter is on low today!)

 

You truly make me smile....I hate posting things like this & realizing it can be taken in different ways. Hope you know

[katielee]

I'm a former English major not giving a s h 1 t how I use lay. ha! At any rate, we ARE going to the beach for 3 days this weekend. Of course, it's 36 degrees and frozen over but those are little things. There will be alcohol!

[merrmeade]

I'm a former English major not giving a s h 1 t how I use lay. ha! At any rate, we ARE going to the beach for 3 days this weekend. Of course, it's 36 degrees and frozen over but those are little things. There will be alcohol!

Oh, well then, just be careful where you lay your buns.

[Whoknew30]

Since you both cheated you both have reasons to not trust each other. You want to move & this would make you happy but what if you moved & you did it again? He can be thinking of it that way, as you don't want both feet in, it's leaving him to feel more validated at work & why move not knowing a 100% it would be better some where else? Problems & cheating can happen anywhere, if a person wants to cheat nothing is going to stop them. What if he does move & your happy but he's not, wouldn't that make it that much easier for a serial adulter more motive to cheat?

[katielee]

What if he does move & your happy but he's not, wouldn't that make it that much easier for a serial adulter more motive to cheat?

 

I can tell you for sure that he's in charge of his own actions... I'm not going to stay simply so he doesn't cheat again. I don't consider him a serial cheater.

 

But yes, that is (or has been) his reasoning, I'm not a sure thing so why put his job on the line. I could use the same reasoning, he's not a sure thing, so why stay when living somewhere else would ease the triggers?

[Whoknew30]

I can tell you for sure that he's in charge of his own actions... I'm not going to stay simply so he doesn't cheat again. I don't consider him a serial cheater.

 

But yes, that is (or has been) his reasoning, I'm not a sure thing so why put his job on the line. I could use the same reasoning, he's not a sure thing, so why stay when living somewhere else would ease the triggers?[/quote

 

The only trigger for man that has cheated more than once is being anywhere that there are women. Which means absolutely everywhere. Meeting a woman walking down the street is just as easy as meeting someone at work...unless the A has been with the same person for years, then that person would be the trigger not the place. Someone that isn't going to cheat, just isn't going to & someone that wants to, will. The location doesn't matter. Wherever you move in the world...cheating is happening there.

[katielee]

WK - it's not to get away from women. It's for me to not trigger seeing those particular women.

[merrmeade]

well, wtheck? what do you want to know?

 

he likes affirmation for his job because he's risen through the ranks.. and that is important to him.

No, it's not that. From the beginning with your posts - and even that pm that I totally got bogged down in for the SAME REASON - you give your judgment on his motives and how this affects you. And that's valid for sure, but it's still your judgment/perception. So even when you PMed me, I didn't feel competent to have an opinion on the question of 'should he have done X to me" because I had no idea what he thought about it. It's hard to know what has actually transpired between you - what he said, what he feels, how he thinks - to say back to you: yes, I agree; he's hopeless. All I can say is that I see you're frustrated.

 

More examples just from this thread:

• I am not his priority
  
• He gets to love me how he wants - by providing for me.
  
• I'm asking him to love me differently now.
  
• Then in answer to S2B's "I he capable of loving you differently now? Can he do change? Are you asking for a reasonable and obtainable request?" I don't know. He doesn't want to change. I don't know if my request is reasonable. It would be for me. But my identity isn't tied to my job. (I think S2B was talking about some unnamed "change" and you went back to the point of changing jobs?)
  

 

But you always come back to overall acceptance in statements like "and weighing the good and bad of our life together the good wins out. and it sucks.

... But I get to interpret if that's how I want to be loved too. It was in the beginning. So part of this is not really fair to him."

 

The main things I guess I always wonder about your situation are

• What does he worry about regarding your relationship?
  
• Is he 'over' your affair?
  
• Who's more/less still triggering? Does he hesitate to tell you when he triggers, as you report that you do (hesitate to tell him)? Do you talk about these hesitations or even have a clue? (Truly NO criticism intended b/c you're WAY further along and far more discriminating with yourself than I am.)

 

So I guess it comes down to wondering WHAT THE HELL IS HE THINKING all this time?? And are you sure? Would he confirm what you say?

[katielee]

merrmeade - I wish I could speak for him but I can't. I sometimes have no idea what his perspective or perception is. So, I can only tell my side of the story and my perceptions, which is unfortunate.

 

What does he worry about regarding your relationship? I don't know. I "think" that I'll do it again.

Is he 'over' your affair? I have no idea. I would guess not but again, I don't know...

Who's more/less still triggering? I don't know.

 

Does he hesitate to tell you when he triggers, as you report that you do (hesitate to tell him)?he doesn't tell me when he triggers. i rarely tell him.

Do you talk about these hesitations or even have a clue? (Truly NO criticism intended b/c you're WAY further along and far more discriminating with yourself than I am.) not really.

 

I can see that I mis-answered SB's question. Regarding change - I think I'd like him to be more open about his introspective moments - if he has any. He must talk about things like this in IC. So why not with me?

[merrmeade]

Hope you understand. I'm 100% supportive of you and your sincerity, effort, ruthless self-examination. I am just a complete skeptic about anyone's ability to say what someone else thinks, feels, wants. It's not that I don't trust what you say. Well, yes it is. Unless I hear what the person has said/done/shown in concrete examples, I take it as your perception.

 

I FULLY admit I haven't even examined my own posts to know if maybe I do the same thing! Maybe I also give only my judgments of my WH without supporting examples. If so, I'd like to know. I'm just saying that I always have this question - e.g., what does he say about this? - on reading your posts, kl.

[merrmeade]

He must talk about things like this in IC. So why not with me?

Well, that would be my question, too.

[Whoknew30]

WK - it's not to get away from women. It's for me to not trigger seeing those particular women.

 

I think if you also didn't cheat then it'd be a little different. I think both people lose the right of saying what would be best for themselves with in the marriage if you're both WS...bc most people (including myself) have A's being selfish & if you both have done that, it shows you both can be selfish (as my husband & I were). Your next step should be to get out of that selfish way of thinking. Which in that case he has a better argument, his job makes life for him, you & your family to be financially secure. So his want is partly about himself & the rest about family. Your want to move is strictly about you, which kind of tells me your not completely done with selfish thinking & I think deep down you know that. If you were just a BS & wanted to move it would be to save your marriage but you want it just for your own comfort, you need to be wanting changes for the better of both of you, not just for yourself.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Whoknew30
Spell check changing my words

[katielee]

Peace means more to me than financial security, of which we would have no matter where we lived. Because we have enough money now, no kids to support, and both of us earning enough to support ourselves. And i don't think I'm being selfish at all. I think I'm being very accommodating. If we're still here because the thing he has going for him is his job then I'm still paying for his insecurity. And staying here means I'm living with mine.

[katielee]

I think both people lose the right of saying what would be best for themselves with in the marriage if you're both WS..

 

I disagree with this. WS don't give up rights in a marriage simply because they're wayward.

[Whoknew30]

Peace means more to me than financial security, of which we would have no matter where we lived. Because we have enough money now, no kids to support, and both of us earning enough to support ourselves. And i don't think I'm being selfish at all. I think I'm being very accommodating. If we're still here because the thing he has going for him is his job then I'm still paying for his insecurity. And staying here means I'm living with mine.

 

I can kind of understand why he doesn't open up to you. I wouldn't either if I were him. You speak as if you also didn't have an affair. I'm not being judgy I'm being a 100%!honest with you. You wonder why he doesn't open up to you, I can see why in one sentence of your writing. My husband & I have been there & we had to both be unselfish to fix it. He likes his job, it makes him feel good. Why would you want to take that away from him if you love him &'it means a lot to him? That's not playing into insecurity, that's letting him feel like a man. He lost part of that when you cheated (as did my husband). If you make him quit & it's not his choice, your cutting off his balls & that's not how you make a marriage work. If you truly love him & want your marriage to work, you're not going at it the right way. Move when it suits you as a couple not bc it only suits you.

 

if you didn't cheat different ball game but you did, it's about both. You admit your not both feet in but yet want him to open up to you? What are you showing him to make him want to?

[Whoknew30]

I disagree with this. WS don't give up rights in a marriage simply because they're wayward.

 

& that's why IMO he doesn't open up to you. One second you say cheating is disgusting & no excuse or motive bc it doesn't matter & in the next post a WS doesn't give up any rights in their marriage. You're all over the place & no one wants to open up to any spouse that's so contradictory.

[katielee]

I'm really not all over the place. Cheating is disgusting and no motive is good enough to justify it. A MH couple in recovery should be able to have rights in a marriage. Who gets to call the shots then? Neither? they both need to be able to state their needs honestly and maturely.

[MuddyFootprints]

Have you had OW encounters? Can you describe in more detail the trigger feelings and how you've reacted?

[katielee]

I can kind of understand why he doesn't open up to you. I wouldn't either if I were him. You speak as if you also didn't have an affair. I'm not being judgy I'm being a 100%!honest with you. You wonder why he doesn't open up to you, I can see why in one sentence of your writing. My husband & I have been there & we had to both be unselfish to fix it. He likes his job, it makes him feel good. Why would you want to take that away from him if you love him &'it means a lot to him? That's not playing into insecurity, that's letting him feel like a man. He lost part of that when you cheated (as did my husband). If you make him quit & it's not his choice, your cutting off his balls & that's not how you make a marriage work. If you truly love him & want your marriage to work, you're not going at it the right way. Move when it suits you as a couple not bc it only suits you.

 

if you didn't cheat different ball game but you did, it's about both. You admit your not both feet in but yet want him to open up to you? What are you showing him to make him want to?

 

if you think I speak as if I didn't have an affair you need to read more of the threads I've posted on...

I dont' want to cut his balls off but I'd like him to appreciate me giving up an element of peace so he can keep his job.

 

If I didn't cheat different ball game? Then I'm still being punished. And I've about had it with that.

I'll take merrmeade's advice and ask him why he can't open up to me if he can to his IC.

[dichotomy]

Or a time machine, as they say.

 

I'm a good three years post divorce and I'm not fully healed. I'm truly not sure I'll ever be the same. It's pretty sad, to be honest. I was a pretty damn good and trusting person before. Now I'm a skeptic most of the time. I think I've been affected permanently. I'm not sure how much "recovery" I should even expect. I think katie is in a similar boat, as are many of us. I don't really know what's to be done about it. It's a travesty.

 

10 years, ditto to above, and I think even my own personal strong positions fidelity = love= sex have dwindled. Kind of along the lines of sex is sex, and cheating happens. Thats something my wife does not realize as a consequence She thinks I feel a loss in her, but I also deal with a loss in me.

[katielee]

Have you had OW encounters? Can you describe in more detail the trigger feelings and how you've reacted?

 

about two dozen... but none very very recently.

 

I have a fight/flight reaction. And then I get very angry. Some of the anger is at myself for staying... some circumstances cannot be changed. others can. How to know what is important enough to change has been my struggle.

[MuddyFootprints]

I read a lot of guilt and shame in your posts, both for him and yourself, that's why I was wondering how you respond to an encounter.

 

Have you done much talking with your therapist about this?

[Whoknew30]

I'm really not all over the place. Cheating is disgusting and no motive is good enough to justify it. A MH couple in recovery should be able to have rights in a marriage. Who gets to call the shots then? Neither? they both need to be able to state their needs honestly and maturely.

 

"Call the shots" in marriage?...no one should just call shots! By even saying that shows me, you're not getting it & it sounds extremely immature coming from a woman that's been married a number of years. I'm at 16 years & if my husband said that, I wouldn't want to communicate with openly with him either.

 

You asked for perspective & im being honest. You don't come off as someone that's easy to talk to, I would assume that's also a reason your husband doesn't want to leave his job. He's heard & most likely respected at work (only going by what you've wrote) why would he give that up for a wife that he doesn't feel comfortable enough to open up to? I wouldn't & if that's what you want you seem to be really going the wrong direction to make it a comfortable move for your spouse.

 

Good luck to you.

[katielee]

I read a lot of guilt and shame in your posts, both for him and yourself, that's why I was wondering how you respond to an encounter.

 

Have you done much talking with your therapist about this?

 

Muddy they have said it'll get better with time. It has not.

I get so angry when it happens because there are other options.

And, he ran my AP out of town so I know he understands how I feel.

[MuddyFootprints]

If we're mired, all time will do is bake us or drown us. I don't think you are close to the last steps of healing, nor do I think you've got the right counsellor to help you out of the mud.

 

Please understand that what you are thinking is very relatable to me and I'm not trying to bash you or invalidate your thoughts and feelings.

 

Getting to the core of your anger would be a start toward healing. Being able to communicate it is the beginning of releasing it.

 

You have a lot of work to do yet. And, that's not a bad thing.