Dealing with wife's affair.

[Ladyjane14]

So help me to understand...

 

You are saying you did for your wayward what the wayward should do for the betrayed?

 

You took on the pain of the wayward and helped him to heal instead of him helping to heal you?

 

You are telling ns to take on the pain of his wayward to obtain healing?

 

Yeah.... pretty much.

 

What people seem to forget is that the wayward has lost his/her way. And what the majority of cheaters want more than anything else... is just the person they married. They've lost connection. When the connection is restored, trust and transparency follow.

 

I took a clinical view, accepted his overtures at healing, walked a mile in his shoes... and I'm happy now that I did.

 

Not saying that every day is a picnic or that I haven't been stressed past what I thought I could endure. But I've hung in there and climbed out on that limb knowing that no fall could hurt me more than I was ALREADY hurt. And it's paid off so far.

 

Fear is the mindkiller, you know?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Well...an affair pretty well screws up both the wayward and the betrayed...neither is emotionally stable.

 

And I will admit I find what you are saying interesting....I have not read any books that recommend this approach...nor have I seen it recommended on forums.

 

So please allow me to pick your brain.

 

After you took this approach...did you also receive from him transparency and remorse?

 

How did you rebuild trust?

[Naively.Sensitive]

In post #784 you said, "she was trying to protect her own emotional comfort of trying to make me stay in the relationship". Why do you think that?

 

You know, I believe I'm still married.. and happy in my marriage... because I ended up experiencing more empathy than I believed I was capable of. I stepped into his shoes, and even though I'll never truly understand his choices, I can see what a mess he was in emotional terms. I felt his pain.

 

People forget that the betrayed spouse isn't the one who's thought-process is ****ed up. I went down the rabbit hole and found the ****-upedness. I separated my emotional reaction (ego) from my clinical reaction (empathy). I've loved this man since he was 18 years old; taken care of him since he was 20. No way I was going to walk out on him at the lowest point of his life, even when he thought I would.

 

You've got to get down in the trenches, past the hurt, and see if that kind of feeling is still there for you. If it's there, work through the problems. If it's not, get out.

 

Ladyjane14,

 

Pardon me, you are the betrayed, correct? (I seemed to have been confused from your post, because it seems like you have done more work in the reconciliation than your husband. Please pardon and correct me if I'm wrong about that)

 

Yes, I agree that its my wayward spouse whose thought-process was f*ck*d up. She admits this herself. Infact that is the basis of her entire defense. She IS saying that what she felt under those circumstances was the result of a messed up mind, stress in the relationship and a false sense of seeking happiness outside of her own soul. She says she takes responsibility for her actions and has worked on herself in the past 6 months to be able to realize her misperceptions about the source of happiness. She says she is seeing life in a completely new light that she has never seen before. To your point about empathy, I have also felt some empathy for her, much like one would feel for a patient who had been "mentally sick". I have already demonstrated that I have NOT walked out on her, inspite of my own pain and suffering. Isn't that more than enough to demonstrate empathy towards her?

 

Now, when I have needed her help in my extreme pain, where the hell is she? Still stuck in her own "illness"? Or should I call it selfishness?

[katielee]

Someone here recently said that WS has an affair because they're not quite ready for suicide. If that is the case, and it maybe for some but not all (many?) cases, then Lady Janes premise IS interesting. The issue may be that the WS doesn't know this, bogged down with hormones, they can only reach for the pain coping mechanism, not fully understanding why, getting hung up on WHO.

If true, then empathy would be the compassionate response.

And now I've confused myself...

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have always said there are many roads to get to the same place. We all want healing. What works for one does not necessarily work for everyone. But I can tell you this.....this mindset.... of the betrayed taking on the pain of the wayward....would not have worked for John Adams.

 

As a matter of fact....it might have caused the demise of the Adams.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Yeah.... pretty much.

 

What people seem to forget is that the wayward has lost his/her way. And what the majority of cheaters want more than anything else... is just the person they married. They've lost connection. When the connection is restored, trust and transparency follow.

 

I took a clinical view, accepted his overtures at healing, walked a mile in his shoes... and I'm happy now that I did.

 

Not saying that every day is a picnic or that I haven't been stressed past what I thought I could endure. But I've hung in there and climbed out on that limb knowing that no fall could hurt me more than I was ALREADY hurt. And it's paid off so far.

 

Fear is the mindkiller, you know?

 

I have heard about this approach, but it is extremely counter intuitive and just like anything else, its extremely risky. There is a risk that I'm actually fostering my wife's sense of hiding her guilt.

This is the Gandhi approach towards non violence where if a person hits you on one cheek, you offer your person the other cheek.

I'm not saying it never works, but you basically still hand over power to the wayward, by depending on their sense of subconscious "goodness". Don't you basically say to them, "You hurt me so tremendously. I'm going to ignore my pain and help you.", and you now depend on them to feel, "Oh crap. Look what I'm doing. I'm only *taking* from this relationship. This person deserves better. Let me get my act together now, before I lose respect for myself for not demonstrating my own goodness". Isn't that what is going on here?

 

I understand that as a betrayed, you must have had to muster up TREMENDOUS strength and courage to pull off something like this. I understand that in this situation, you held the power, by *giving* and not *taking*, but where did find anything to *give*? Did you not break down yourself? Did it result in your wayward husband "breaking down" in tears, and begging you for forgiveness?

 

The Dalai Lama and so many other spiritual leaders talk about compassion. They talk about a true demonstration of compassion being in situations in which you are yourself in pain. When you give something inspite of barely having it yourself. I understand all of this, but honestly, have never been in such an extreme circumstance to be able to practice it. I have always had the feeling that if you give someone your hand, they are likely to take your entire arm. This is foreign to me, and is extremely hard if not impossible in a situation in which your most loved person in your life has betrayed your trust in the worst possible way.

 

Isn't it easier and more reasonable (and more fair), to expect the wayward to do what is intuitively "expected"?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Wait wait wait.....

 

Is there some misunderstanding that a betrayed treats the wayward disrespectfully? or with anger and hostility? or abusiveness?

 

 

compassion flows both directions....kindness goes both ways

 

But If i had not taken responsibility for my actions....if I had not become transparent and started rebuilding the trust that i removed by having my affair.....then I don't think John would have taken me seriously....I don't think he would have thought that i truly cared about US and that I was willing to do whatever I needed to do to to repair the damage I had caused.

 

In the end...you both heal each other....the result of both doing their part.

 

I think maybe it is time for me to exit this thread. I have done my best to help...sorry I could not do more for you NS.

[M1ke12]

Yeah.... pretty much.

 

What people seem to forget is that the wayward has lost his/her way. And what the majority of cheaters want more than anything else... is just the person they married. They've lost connection. When the connection is restored, trust and transparency follow.

 

I took a clinical view, accepted his overtures at healing, walked a mile in his shoes... and I'm happy now that I did.

 

Not saying that every day is a picnic or that I haven't been stressed past what I thought I could endure. But I've hung in there and climbed out on that limb knowing that no fall could hurt me more than I was ALREADY hurt. And it's paid off so far.

 

Fear is the mindkiller, you know?

 

Yes I agree. One of the couple reasons that I know that i will be able to forgive my wife is that she forgave me. I had an EA 7 years into our marriage. I remember my feelings well at the time and it really caused me to disconnect from my wife, whom now i wouldn't trade for the world. I almost ruined my life I honestly believe and I have told her repeatedly. Now its year 22 and its her turn. She has certainly lost her way. She tells me how she feels and I in turn confirm, that is exactly how I felt.....and then I told her that I almost ruined my life and I would have if I had listened to myself. Then I read the same stuff on this forum. It really does follow a predictable pattern no?

 

Of course not every case is like this. I however really hope it brings us closer together. And I feel like I am actually supporting my wife during a very difficult time in her life. Again, not sick, just empathetic because I was there and I have a clear memory of the events.

[Ladyjane14]

Well...an affair pretty well screws up both the wayward and the betrayed...neither is emotionally stable.

 

And I will admit I find what you are saying interesting....I have not read any books that recommend this approach...nor have I seen it recommended on forums.

 

So please allow me to pick your brain.

 

After you took this approach...did you also receive from him transparency and remorse?

 

How did you rebuild trust?

 

Yes. He laid himself open for me.. because he trusted that I understood his feelings. And as far as trust goes, I just had to fling myself out there, understanding that I was ALREADY as hurt as I could possibly be. I had nothing left to lose that wasn't already lost.

[thecharade]

But Ladyjane, I read many affair websites. Have you seen like I have, that your approach often causes affairs to go underground? Or second ddays? Or future affairs? That is what I have seen when the BS is too "understanding."

[Ladyjane14]

Ladyjane14,

 

Pardon me, you are the betrayed, correct? (I seemed to have been confused from your post, because it seems like you have done more work in the reconciliation than your husband. Please pardon and correct me if I'm wrong about that)

 

Yes, I agree that its my wayward spouse whose thought-process was f*ck*d up. She admits this herself. Infact that is the basis of her entire defense. She IS saying that what she felt under those circumstances was the result of a messed up mind, stress in the relationship and a false sense of seeking happiness outside of her own soul. She says she takes responsibility for her actions and has worked on herself in the past 6 months to be able to realize her misperceptions about the source of happiness. She says she is seeing life in a completely new light that she has never seen before. To your point about empathy, I have also felt some empathy for her, much like one would feel for a patient who had been "mentally sick". I have already demonstrated that I have NOT walked out on her, inspite of my own pain and suffering. Isn't that more than enough to demonstrate empathy towards her?

 

Now, when I have needed her help in my extreme pain, where the hell is she? Still stuck in her own "illness"? Or should I call it selfishness?

 

It's illness.. if you feel like you know who she was before it happened. For the WS, it really CAN be like a lightbulb going on. Suddenly something just snaps into place and they recognize the ill-perceptions of their former thought process.. like flipping a switch.

[Ladyjane14]

Wait wait wait.....

 

Is there some misunderstanding that a betrayed treats the wayward disrespectfully? or with anger and hostility? or abusiveness?

 

 

compassion flows both directions....kindness goes both ways

 

But If i had not taken responsibility for my actions....if I had not become transparent and started rebuilding the trust that i removed by having my affair.....then I don't think John would have taken me seriously....I don't think he would have thought that i truly cared about US and that I was willing to do whatever I needed to do to to repair the damage I had caused.

 

In the end...you both heal each other....the result of both doing their part.

 

I think maybe it is time for me to exit this thread. I have done my best to help...sorry I could not do more for you NS.

 

If I hadn't laid the groundwork and created the safe space, the rebuilding couldn't have happened. That's all I'm saying. I had to make a safe space for honesty. After that, he was okay with becoming an open book.

[Ladyjane14]

Yes I agree. One of the couple reasons that I know that i will be able to forgive my wife is that she forgave me. I had an EA 7 years into our marriage. I remember my feelings well at the time and it really caused me to disconnect from my wife, whom now i wouldn't trade for the world. I almost ruined my life I honestly believe and I have told her repeatedly. Now its year 22 and its her turn. She has certainly lost her way. She tells me how she feels and I in turn confirm, that is exactly how I felt.....and then I told her that I almost ruined my life and I would have if I had listened to myself. Then I read the same stuff on this forum. It really does follow a predictable pattern no?

 

Of course not every case is like this. I however really hope it brings us closer together. And I feel like I am actually supporting my wife during a very difficult time in her life. Again, not sick, just empathetic because I was there and I have a clear memory of the events.

 

I've been following your story... and I think you're doing just fine. What it comes down to sometimes, is whether you're willing to take the emotional risks of getting hurt in exchange for the payoff of saving the one you love. There comes a point at which you've just got so much invested that you don't have anything to lose... and everything to gain. Don't let anyone make you feel ashamed for having an open heart.

[Ladyjane14]

But Ladyjane, I read many affair websites. Have you seen like I have, that your approach often causes affairs to go underground? Or second ddays? Or future affairs? That is what I have seen when the BS is too "understanding."

 

What do I have to be afraid of? I already got crushed like a bug. Am I going to get further hurt? There is no further. At your lowest point, the only direction is UP. I'm all in. I've always been "all in". I just had to recognize it.

 

I do believe that there's some truth to our intuitive knowledge of our partner. If you can separate yourself from your imagination, you know when you're being lied to or if you're getting honesty. Maybe not initially.. but when your radar has switched to 'ON'.. you know what you know.

[Mrs. John Adams]

SO since I am not familiar with your story...tell me...did your husband get caught or did he confess?

 

Because I confessed...so my honesty had already started.....

 

and i think John had an open heart...and showed me that the minute i confessed and he allowed me to stay.

 

Anyway...I am really glad all this worked for you....and if this works for NS...fabulous. I am wondering if this idea might work better for betrayed wives as opposed to betrayed husbands?

 

It would not have worked for us...and I cannot imagine that the majority of the betrayed husbands here would go for this concept....but maybe this idea will help some.

 

Anyway thanks for your openness.

[thecharade]

Well, Ladyjane, I have not been the BS. I just know all that I have read, but most say that additional or further deception is worse than the initial hurt. Were you just lucky, or do you really feel your results were obtained by strategy? Because I have not seen your advice before, but IDK.

 

Only NS can know for sure. Would it be ok to reconcile and find out you were being duped, NS? How would you feel about a second affair or new discovery day?

[JohnAdams]

NS...I have read enough of your story to know that you sincerely want to reconcile. I understand that you are willing to do what is necessary. However, do not become a doormat to achieve this result.

[Naively.Sensitive]

What do I have to be afraid of? I already got crushed like a bug. Am I going to get further hurt? There is no further. At your lowest point, the only direction is UP. I'm all in. I've always been "all in". I just had to recognize it.

 

I do believe that there's some truth to our intuitive knowledge of our partner. If you can separate yourself from your imagination, you know when you're being lied to or if you're getting honesty. Maybe not initially.. but when your radar has switched to 'ON'.. you know what you know.

 

I understand that feeling of having lost EVERYTHING, and also understand that feeling of being at the lowest point in my life. Its almost like feeling that I'm so destroyed that it does not even make a difference if my wife has another affair. The only thing I seek is pure honesty and the truth. If she does not want me enough to fight for me, then trying to bind her down with reconciliation is a wasted exercise, both for her as well as for me.

 

What I seem to "know" (Its just a feeling), is that my wife wants there to be no consequences of her actions. She wants a "get out of jail free card", at my emotional expense. That is my intuitive knowledge of her.

She is afraid of facing the consequences of her actions because it causes her to look into the possibly painful reality of who she was, like a mirror that shows a person one's face. My feeling is that she is not proud of what she sees in the mirror, but is too fearful to face that reality. In the process of this, she is not able to support me in my extreme pain, because it probably forces her to see the effects of devastation of her choices.

 

I think that what a lot of posters say may be ultimately what is needed. If she sees that she has more to lose by way of a marriage that is going to end, she may decide to have the courage to face the reality of devastation of her actions.

[Ladyjane14]

I have heard about this approach, but it is extremely counter intuitive and just like anything else, its extremely risky. There is a risk that I'm actually fostering my wife's sense of hiding her guilt.

This is the Gandhi approach towards non violence where if a person hits you on one cheek, you offer your person the other cheek.

I'm not saying it never works, but you basically still hand over power to the wayward, by depending on their sense of subconscious "goodness". Don't you basically say to them, "You hurt me so tremendously. I'm going to ignore my pain and help you.", and you now depend on them to feel, "Oh crap. Look what I'm doing. I'm only *taking* from this relationship. This person deserves better. Let me get my act together now, before I lose respect for myself for not demonstrating my own goodness". Isn't that what is going on here?

 

I understand that as a betrayed, you must have had to muster up TREMENDOUS strength and courage to pull off something like this. I understand that in this situation, you held the power, by *giving* and not *taking*, but where did find anything to *give*? Did you not break down yourself? Did it result in your wayward husband "breaking down" in tears, and begging you for forgiveness?

 

The Dalai Lama and so many other spiritual leaders talk about compassion. They talk about a true demonstration of compassion being in situations in which you are yourself in pain. When you give something inspite of barely having it yourself. I understand all of this, but honestly, have never been in such an extreme circumstance to be able to practice it. I have always had the feeling that if you give someone your hand, they are likely to take your entire arm. This is foreign to me, and is extremely hard if not impossible in a situation in which your most loved person in your life has betrayed your trust in the worst possible way.

 

Isn't it easier and more reasonable (and more fair), to expect the wayward to do what is intuitively "expected"?

 

I never wanted "breaking down" or "begging". I wanted his love. I wanted him to feel my love. How can you say you love someone and want to break them? I got broken, that's true. But you can either respond to that with vengeance or with introspection.... ie. what was my part in the "disconnection"?

 

Feelings are ALWAYS valid. They might not make sense to you and me, but they're always authentic to the one who feels them. In my situation, when I explored my spouse's feelings, walked a mile in his shoes, I could understand how his perceptions lead to his poor choices.

 

Maybe that's your situation; maybe it isn't. Only you can decide.

[Naively.Sensitive]

NS...I have read enough of your story to know that you sincerely want to reconcile. I understand that you are willing to do what is necessary. However, do not become a doormat to achieve this result.

 

Dear Mr. John,

 

I respect the advice that you and Mrs. John Adams have been giving me. I am not being a doormat (in my perception), because I still allow myself to feel anger and pain. My wife sees me during these times, and I make it very obvious to her that I DO plan to move on, one way or another.

It seems that I'm missing exactly what you were missing. I'm missing the feeling of remorse and the feeling of knowing that my wife truly understands how much pain I am in.

I think she also knows that I have always had a dream of having a wonderful wife and just like all my other dreams, I never give up. She has seen that I have never ever given up on any of my dreams and have never compromised on them either, so she probably knows that I'm going to move on to find another beautiful woman in my life if she is not the one.

 

In your experience, when did you first realize (after the affair) that Mrs. John Adams was NEVER going to leave your side for your healing?

Did you ever feel abandoned by her in the 30 years it took to fully reconcile?

Was she with you day and night, making you her Number 1 priority after her affair, to help you feel loved, or did she just try to live life "normally"?

 

Another important factor is this: Was her attention needed in other aspects of daily living? e.g. Was she a working woman? Did you'all have young kids who also needed your attention and her attention? Sometimes the motivation to be with each other is there, but practical problems and commitments in daily living make it harder to carve out large amounts of time for each other. e.g. I really want her to spend about 4 hours with me everyday, at various points in the day, but I know that 4 hours on a weekday with both of us working is hard to do. Did you'all have to make adjustments and lifestyle changes to accommodate what was needed (in terms of time)?

[Ladyjane14]

SO since I am not familiar with your story...tell me...did your husband get caught or did he confess?

 

Because I confessed...so my honesty had already started.....

 

and i think John had an open heart...and showed me that the minute i confessed and he allowed me to stay.

 

Anyway...I am really glad all this worked for you....and if this works for NS...fabulous. I am wondering if this idea might work better for betrayed wives as opposed to betrayed husbands?

 

It would not have worked for us...and I cannot imagine that the majority of the betrayed husbands here would go for this concept....but maybe this idea will help some.

 

Anyway thanks for your openness.

 

I don't see why it would be gender specific. I think the bottom line is just the realization that you've already been hurt as much as you can possibly be hurt... and you just don't have anything else to lose.

 

I think it's a mistake to allow ego to keep one from achieving happiness, although I recognize the pressure in modern society. So, I could be a little pilgrim and cut my nose off to spite my face, or I could look at his point of view and really SEE the desperation there. The loss of connection can be devastating to many people, and it really was about that, I think. From my current vantage point, I see how valuable that connection is. And it's not just about sex, or "kibbles" as the Chump Lady would have it. It's about knowing that there's one human being out in the world who's got your back, thick and thin.

 

Anyway... I'm beat. I'll check back in later.

[Ladyjane14]

Well, Ladyjane, I have not been the BS. I just know all that I have read, but most say that additional or further deception is worse than the initial hurt. Were you just lucky, or do you really feel your results were obtained by strategy? Because I have not seen your advice before, but IDK.

 

Only NS can know for sure. Would it be ok to reconcile and find out you were being duped, NS? How would you feel about a second affair or new discovery day?

 

What could be worse than hitting rock bottom? You can either choose healing or bitterness at that point. For some people it will mean reconciliation, for some it will mean divorce. For me, I understood innately that if I didn't work through the process, I'd end up bitter. And giving myself to the process allowed me to find healing.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't see why it would be gender specific. I think the bottom line is just the realization that you've already been hurt as much as you can possibly be hurt... and you just don't have anything else to lose.

 

I think it's a mistake to allow ego to keep one from achieving happiness, although I recognize the pressure in modern society. So, I could be a little pilgrim and cut my nose off to spite my face, or I could look at his point of view and really SEE the desperation there. The loss of connection can be devastating to many people, and it really was about that, I think. From my current vantage point, I see how valuable that connection is. And it's not just about sex, or "kibbles" as the Chump Lady would have it. It's about knowing that there's one human being out in the world who's got your back, thick and thin.

 

Anyway... I'm beat. I'll check back in later.

 

the person that now has your back is the same one who plunged the knife in and twisted it.

 

That person has to show remorse for what they have done...or you will never be able to TRUST that they don't have another knife. You may be willing to take that chance...John would not. He needed to know that i understand exactly what i did...and the pain i caused him...because if i understand his pain....I will not do it again. I get it.....it took me a long time...

 

I am no chump lady fan...don't even get me started there...

 

Your way worked for you...that's all that is important. It would not have worked for us.

 

Each couple has to do what is best for them.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah.... pretty much.

 

What people seem to forget is that the wayward has lost his/her way. And what the majority of cheaters want more than anything else... is just the person they married. They've lost connection. When the connection is restored, trust and transparency follow.

 

I took a clinical view, accepted his overtures at healing, walked a mile in his shoes... and I'm happy now that I did.

 

Not saying that every day is a picnic or that I haven't been stressed past what I thought I could endure. But I've hung in there and climbed out on that limb knowing that no fall could hurt me more than I was ALREADY hurt. And it's paid off so far.

 

Fear is the mindkiller, you know?

 

I did this with my wayward for YEARS.

 

I even got him counseling etc. And other resources that ran into thousands of dollars.

 

It didn't go anywhere. He took it as a passive-aggressive insult. He took it as "controlling." He kept cheating too. Didn't acknowledge my pain.

 

It really sucked, to say the very least.

 

It finally got to the point where I did the 180, that seemed to be where the shift lay. By that time I was also pretty pissed off at how I had been treated for years. No, actually, that's not when I got mad. I got mad when he took off on our daughter and stopped responding to her messages and calls. That did it for me. THEN I was mad.

 

I knew he had issues after the cheating was first exposed, but I thought that love, patience, time and counseling would heal us. I didn't doubt he loved me, even then. But he was very damaged, far more than I had realized when we married. He was very careful to hide his issues and compartmentalize his life. Very very diabolically careful. For a period of time after I found out about his lies and manipulations I was actually scared that I was dealing with a sociopath.

 

But then post-180, it seemed to throw him through a loop.

 

Mother's Day approached (he never missed that) so he sobered up and made an effort. Our daughters birthday a week later, he really wasn't going to miss that. He came then left again after. Our anniversary was the week after that (yes lots of holidays close together) he sobered up and made an effort again. I thought for sure he would miss my birthday. (Two weeks after anniversary). And, well, he wasn't totally sober for that either. But again made some small effort.

 

But overall it became abundantly clear that we weren't going to wait around for him anymore. I always felt like he was deeply wounded. But treating him like a hurt kid almost gave him permission to continue to act like one, and he was a 37 year old man that was hurting our 6 year old kid by not getting himself together.

 

So he realized we weren't going to have him live with us being a mess. So he got into treatment, and I refused to help him with that. I had done it twice before, he could figure it out.

 

Turns out, how he feels loved is not by being "helped and understood" but rather by "having faith in him to figure it out himself without help." I'm the total opposite. I had been abandoned during my bout with mental illness in my teens and would've killed to have someone who loved me reach out to me. Turns out for him it was just very shaming. A constant reminder something was "wrong with him." (Passive-aggressive thinking at its finest).

 

So, when he attended treatment I knew something changed in him the week they covered about respect. He broke right down and showed me a paragraph that stood out to him about how love is built from respect / consistency / trust etc. And how it dies when there is disrespect / inconsistency / not being able to trust etc.

 

He sobbed really hard to where he couldn't speak (and he's not one of those crocodile tears manipulator types. I've rarely seen him cry) and he kind of choked out "it must have been like torture" referring to me having lived with that from him. And yes, I was completely honest with him, it was very torturous, very painful and I didn't give up because I did love him, not because I wanted him to fit in some idealized role I put him into.

 

He's worked very hard to try to regain my trust.

We go for weekly marital counseling. He's learned a great deal about conflict (okay okay, I did too). I can see it's been challenging to tackle a lot of the deeply held beliefs about his self-worth etc. A lot of FOO stuff.

 

When our daughter was diagnosed last week with ADHD (we BOTH have it, mine's been strategically worked on for a number of years, so it isn't AS noticeable, so no one was surprised by the diagnosis)........it was still VERY difficult for him to talk about his FOO as part of the assessment. The abuse in and of itself was particularly disgusting, so I am not surprised that in adulthood he has had a tremendous difficulty with intimacy, trust, security and self-worth.

 

I used to wish I had some sort of key I could just turn in him and unlock the garbagey stuff he had placed inside from his home life and subsequent life being homeless for a dozen or so years. But I don't have it and at least he's lived long enough and had enough supports in place to be given the much needed 46th (47th? 48th? 10023rd?) Chance that he needed.

[JohnAdams]

Dear Mr. John,

 

I respect the advice that you and Mrs. John Adams have been giving me. I am not being a doormat (in my perception), because I still allow myself to feel anger and pain. My wife sees me during these times, and I make it very obvious to her that I DO plan to move on, one way or another.

It seems that I'm missing exactly what you were missing. I'm missing the feeling of remorse and the feeling of knowing that my wife truly understands how much pain I am in.

I think she also knows that I have always had a dream of having a wonderful wife and just like all my other dreams, I never give up. She has seen that I have never ever given up on any of my dreams and have never compromised on them either, so she probably knows that I'm going to move on to find another beautiful woman in my life if she is not the one.

 

In your experience, when did you first realize (after the affair) that Mrs. John Adams was NEVER going to leave your side for your healing?

Did you ever feel abandoned by her in the 30 years it took to fully reconcile?

Was she with you day and night, making you her Number 1 priority after her affair, to help you feel loved, or did she just try to live life "normally"?

Another important factor is this: Was her attention needed in other aspects of daily living? e.g. Was she a working woman? Did you'all have young kids who also needed your attention and her attention? Sometimes the motivation to be with each other is there, but practical problems and commitments in daily living make it harder to carve out large amounts of time for each other. e.g. I really want her to spend about 4 hours with me everyday, at various points in the day, but I know that 4 hours on a weekday with both of us working is hard to do. Did you'all have to make adjustments and lifestyle changes to accommodate what was needed (in terms of time)?

 

NS.....First, I do not think you are being a doormat. Some of the recent advice seems to suggest that is what you should become. It is difficult, but never lose your dignity. You are a proud man. Your wife has broke your heart.

 

I think the idea of remorse is a difficult concept for the WS to understand. They are often sorry, but do not realize the damage they caused. They just want to put it behind them and move on.

 

Like you, I thought I was married to the Disney Princess. I thought happily ever after. Affairs only happened in movies and on TV. My wife always treated me like her prince. How surprised was I when this happened.

 

I always considered myself an average guy with average expectations of life. I just wanted to be comfortable. With the affair, my comfort level was thrown out the door. I could not even achieve average expectations. Where did it all go wrong?

 

Although part of me thought she would never leave me after the affair, I had the devil on my shoulder saying yea, but look at what she did.

 

On the 30 years. That is to get where we are now. That is hard to explain because I do not think many people get to this place. She was sorry and I knew it. However, I never felt she was remorseful. The trouble was I could not articulate what remorse meant and she did not know either. When it clicked we were on a whole new level. Having saying that, we were happy, probably happier than most couples.

 

I will say we never quit having sex. She never moved to another bedroom. I am not sure how I would have handled that situation.

 

After my wife finished college. Where she had her affair. She did work and still does. At the time of her affair, we had two young children. That did factor into the equation. At the time of her affair I was the sole income. So, there is no way we could have afforded two households.

 

I am also in an engineering field and am very logical. While love had most with me staying. Logic was also a big player. While my ego had a difficult time of getting kicked in the nuts, my logic said even if I divorce I take this with me and if I remarry I just pick up someone else's problems.

 

Even though as I said I had average expectations in life. After the affair I gave less importance to my career. Despite that, I have been pretty successful.

 

I think we both were more aware of what we almost lost and became more aware of each others feelings.

 

Having said all this, you are less than a year out. At the two year point, I had a revenge affair. This let's you know that even at two years out I was at a bad place. I think if all goes well, you are looking at 2 to 5 years to heal. If all is not going well, you add who knows how much time. Things do not seem to be going well in your case. So, I think you have a long road ahead of you. Hopefully you do not sink as low as I did.

 

The bottom line is it takes a long time to get over an affair.......actually you never do. It takes work on both sides. You cannot do it without your wife's help. In my opinion, your wife needs to do a lot of the heavy lifting. She made a choice to cheat. Regardless of the state of your marriage. She made that choice by herself. It is not up to you to heal her bad choice. It is up to her to help you feel safe in your relationship again.

 

It comes down to logically and love wise what can you tolerate? We are all different. You did not deserve this and it is not your fault that your wife is a very broke woman. Is she willing to make restitution?