Dealing with wife's affair.

January 24, 2016

NS,

It took me 30 years to give John all that he needed. I promise you...7 months out we were both still struggling. You seem to have this perception that you wake up and miraculously it is over. It is NEVER OVER. You get better...yes....comfort returns....yes....trust even returns to some degree. But for the rest of your life...it will be there. Even if you divorce this woman and marry another.

I dont know your wife....but there is a part of me that wonder because of your ethnic culture...she has a different mindset than i do?

The one thing I will tell you that i did differently than your wife....is i became immediately transparent. Your wife is still keeping secrets...and this bothers me tremendously. I do not understand why she is unwilling to tell you all passwords.....give you access to her computer and phone etc. This for most...would be a deal breaker. IF she is not willing to become transparent to help you rebuild trust.....then how can you move forward?

I was hoping the book would help her to WAKE up...but alas I am sorry...it sounds like it had no impact. I apologize...I thought just maybe she would be ready to take the first step in helping you to heal.

IF she is still only focused on herself....then I am afraid no marriage therapy...nothing you can say or do....will help her. She has to be willing to take the first step....and unfortunately what i am hearing from you is that she cant help you because she is too worried about herself.

The bottom line is this....how long are you prepared to wait?

In my mind, her giving me access to all her email and device passwords is definitely needed, but I need a lot more than just that. In the list of things I need, I'm not sure its the first thing, (but maybe it is and I'm just not aware it is). I will ask her about it today, if she is willing to do that. I have not asked her in many, many months, so I will ask her today.

If she gives me some silly reason why she does not want to allow it (She wanted privacy to talk to a common friend whom she takes council from), what should I say?

Maybe I can tell her that I understand that she needs privacy about "what" she talks about or discusses during her own support, but I need to know "who" she talks to? Regarding email, I'm not sure if she emails any emotions that may be resentful towards me and how she feels about me reading any resentful thoughts she may have towards me? How should I let her know that its important she is open about ALL her feelings and not just the positive ones that she may want to "showcase" to me?

January 24, 2016

She gave up her rights to privacy when she cheated on you. That's the price you pay for infidelity...transparency.... and it should be number one for both of you....because everything else will be based on that.

IF she is willing to give you transparency....then she is willing to give you honesty and truth. On that foundation you can build and grow. Without it...you have two people co existing...not reconciling.

Do you see that?

You need to tell her that you demand transparency and if she is not willing to give it to you...then the consequence is divorce. Period. Because at that point....you cannot reconcile without it.

Can you do this? Are you ready to take this step?

January 24, 2016

I have heard this is true from many people, however, I suffer from these emotional traps:

If I try to heal independently of her (which I was forced to do for the last 6 months since she moved out of the bedroom), I have not been successful. This has resulted in the perception that I need my wife's support to heal. When my wife did support me (in the initial 3 months), I felt "much" better and more confident that I would recover. Now, without my wife's support in the last 6 months, my emotional state seems to have weakened. Also, if I do eventually succeed in healing independently of her, the primary emotion that I "think" I will suffer (in the future), is that I may feel that she did not support me at a time that a needed her the most. This may create another layer of resentment towards her in our future relationship.
Also, another feeling I get is this: If it were really possible for people to heal independently of their wayward spouse, then, why is the relationship needed in the first place? I mean what is the point of any relationship in which a spouse cannot support you to the level that is needed?

Maybe I can give up that fantasy of a wife always being capable of supporting her husband, but what if I'm not able to independently heal to begin with? Are there people like that who are just not capable of healing themselves independently, and am I one such person? Are there other people who are just not able to get over this independently, no matter how hard they try, but they "think" they can get over it so they keep trying?
How would I "really" know if I'm capable of it or not, other than "trying" to be capable of it?

Ultimately, even when your formerly wayward spouse has taken on the role of the healer, as yours did for the first 3 months... you still have to CHOOSE to accept healing. You never did. You just kept slapping her hand away in an unpredictable manner. It was a mistake in terms of reconciling the marriage, and now you're dealing with the repercussions of it... her withdrawal.

Putting that aside for the moment... What would you do if your wife had left you? She wouldn't be there to heal you, you'd either have to do it on your own or live the rest of your life in a puddle of misery.

I get how easy it is to get bogged down in the pain... I really do. But there comes a point at which you've just got to dig down deep and decide you're not going to view yourself as a victim anymore. Whether that means forgiveness and reconciliation or whether it means divorce is up to you.

January 24, 2016

I have heard this is true from many people, however, I suffer from these emotional traps:

If I try to heal independently of her (which I was forced to do for the last 6 months since she moved out of the bedroom), I have not been successful. This has resulted in the perception that I need my wife's support to heal. When my wife did support me (in the initial 3 months), I felt "much" better and more confident that I would recover. Now, without my wife's support in the last 6 months, my emotional state seems to have weakened. Also, if I do eventually succeed in healing independently of her, the primary emotion that I "think" I will suffer (in the future), is that I may feel that she did not support me at a time that a needed her the most. This may create another layer of resentment towards her in our future relationship.
Also, another feeling I get is this: If it were really possible for people to heal independently of their wayward spouse, then, why is the relationship needed in the first place? I mean what is the point of any relationship in which a spouse cannot support you to the level that is needed?

Maybe I can give up that fantasy of a wife always being capable of supporting her husband, but what if I'm not able to independently heal to begin with? Are there people like that who are just not capable of healing themselves independently, and am I one such person? Are there other people who are just not able to get over this independently, no matter how hard they try, but they "think" they can get over it so they keep trying?
How would I "really" know if I'm capable of it or not, other than "trying" to be capable of it?

Have you read the book His Needs Her Needs? It does an amazing job of showing you how to have a very rewarding marriage, where you both WANT to support each other, meet each other's needs, be vulnerable, and just basically be happy to get to spend time with each other. You CAN work the book's tenets by yourself and possibly rebuild a strong marriage where you're getting that stuff.

If you have a set time before you leave, or if you're not willing to leave, then I'd think it's your next best bet toward fixing things. You can't MAKE her want to care for you, but you can make yourself the one person she would want to care about.

January 24, 2016

In my mind, her giving me access to all her email and device passwords is definitely needed, but I need a lot more than just that. In the list of things I need, I'm not sure its the first thing, (but maybe it is and I'm just not aware it is). I will ask her about it today, if she is willing to do that. I have not asked her in many, many months, so I will ask her today.
If she gives me some silly reason why she does not want to allow it (She wanted privacy to talk to a common friend whom she takes council from), what should I say?
Maybe I can tell her that I understand that she needs privacy about "what" she talks about or discusses during her own support, but I need to know "who" she talks to? Regarding email, I'm not sure if she emails any emotions that may be resentful towards me and how she feels about me reading any resentful thoughts she may have towards me? How should I let her know that its important she is open about ALL her feelings and not just the positive ones that she may want to "showcase" to me?

Now, see, this is the stuff I was talking about earlier. She should be GRATEFUL that you gave her a second chance, are willing to even consider staying married to her after what she did. And because of that gratitude, there should BE no 'I'll see how she feels about giving me her passwords.'

She should have never been allowed to stay in the same house with you without you having those passwords. Somewhere, you gave her the impression that YOU were grateful to HER for letting YOU have a second chance at her. Thus, no passwords.

If you can't just go to her today and say 'This isn't working for me. I have to at least have your passwords if I'm going to even consider staying married to you - hand them over, or I'll help you start packing,' then you have no chance in hell of ever getting out of the doormat stage.

January 24, 2016

Now this I agree with.

NS...you have to at least approach her and be assertive enough to say ...no transparency...no reconciliation.

It is truly that simple.

January 24, 2016

NS,

Im going to be blunt: The issue here is whether or not your wife wants to honestly reconcile.

We know you do, and we know that she verbally communicates that she does. But her actions are suspect as they objectively indicate mix signals. Because of studying nonverbal human communication, I understand exactly why you feel the way you do.

The reason you're feeling this way is your brain is hard-wired to perceive nonverbal communication as a more reliable indicator of objective truth than words. Actions really do speak louder than words to our perception of human behavior. Her actions are conflicting with her words and your brain recognizes that.

So until you get HONESTY from her or realize she is incapable of doing that (HONESTY from yourself about what she is communicating), you will feel the way you feel. Unfortunately you are more than likely going to have to be honest with yourself. it may be scary at first, but I promise you it is only why you will get rid of this horrible feeling you gave had for last 6 months.

She cannot give you honesty, but you can demand it of yourself. That is first step in healing. Being honest wth yourself about your unbiased perception(s) of the situation. That is the pathway to freedom from this horrible feeling you're experiencing.

We are all telling you this because we are trying to help not "hate"

Take care of yourself

OL

January 25, 2016

turnera,
Please don't misunderstand. I think what Mrs John Adams (and I) are suggesting is that its really not easy or sometimes even possible to assume what a person is feeling inside, and since my wife does not post on this forum, its hard to accurately know for sure what she feels inside.
However, regardless of how she feels, there are certain things that are needed from her to repair the effects of the damage from her affair. Those are non-negotiable and I'm strong enough to recognize that, so I am not going to allow the excuse of "how she feels" to control "what I need to recover". If she does not provide me with what I truly need to recover, then I'm out. Its as simple as that. Its as simple as any relationship should be, because if our needs are not being met, especially in such a crucial time when I really need her, then the proof is in the pudding that this relationship is not working.

We don't need to read her words here; her actions are screaming.

January 25, 2016

Originally Posted by Naively.Sensitive
If I try to heal independently of her (which I was forced to do for the last 6 months since she moved out of the bedroom), I have not been successful. This has resulted in the perception that I need my wife's support to heal. When my wife did support me (in the initial 3 months), I felt "much" better and more confident that I would recover. Now, without my wife's support in the last 6 months, my emotional state seems to have weakened.

NS, you are worried that you are not able to heal independently. You say that you tried to heal independently for 6 months. What did you do to heal?

I want to suggest that you take actions for at least one to two years to try and GET A LOT BETTER. I think healing in 6 months or a year is not possible for most people. One year may not be enough time to get a LOT BETTER but you can get better every month. That would be a LOT better than what you are doing now which is you keep spending most of your time and energy trying to get your wife to help you. From what has been written so far it seems that she is not helping near enough; in fact her actions for the last 6 months have “WEAKENED your emotions state.

If you keep doing what you are doing you will get weaker. If you make a plan for you to spend your time and actions on you getting stronger in many areas then you have a good chance of you being much better with her or without her. DO you really have a choice?

When you say independently I hope you mean without depending on your wife to help. However, you should get others to help. Do you have friends, family, faith, or the ability to continue good professional’s therapy?

Naively.Sensitive, millions of people have had to get better in situations like yours and they have succeeded. I do not understand why you think that you cannot succeed. You have lots of resources so what do you have to lose by giving yourself a year or two to get better. That means that you give it 100% and if you drop down to 50% then get back up and go 100%. You have nothing to lose but your fear and your weaknesses so get going!

Without you getting stronger you are in danger of becoming a door mat that will eventually get to the point that you cannot recover. IMO

January 25, 2016

NS, you are worried that you are not able to heal independently. You say that you tried to heal independently for 6 months. What did you do to heal?

I want to suggest that you take actions for at least one to two years to try and GET A LOT BETTER. I think healing in 6 months or a year is not possible for most people. One year may not be enough time to get a LOT BETTER but you can get better every month. That would be a LOT better than what you are doing now which is you keep spending most of your time and energy trying to get your wife to help you. From what has been written so far it seems that she is not helping near enough; in fact her actions for the last 6 months have “WEAKENED your emotions state.
If you keep doing what you are doing you will get weaker. If you make a plan for you to spend your time and actions on you getting stronger in many areas then you have a good chance of you being much better with her or without her. DO you really have a choice?

When you say independently I hope you mean without depending on your wife to help. However, you should get others to help. Do you have friends, family, faith, or the ability to continue good professional’s therapy?

Naively.Sensitive, millions of people have had to get better in situations like yours and they have succeeded. I do not understand why you think that you cannot succeed. You have lots of resources so what do you have to lose by giving yourself a year or two to get better. That means that you give it 100% and if you drop down to 50% then get back up and go 100%. You have nothing to lose but your fear and your weaknesses so get going!

Without you getting stronger you are in danger of becoming a door mat that will eventually get to the point that you cannot recover. IMO

THIS is absolutely on-target. You MUST start focusing on healing yourself for yourself. It will also help you look at and assess her efforts and what to do about them. In fact, your healing may help her trust and cooperate - if you still want that. To clear the fog, you need help and she's not going to give it.

Therapy.

January 25, 2016

In my mind, her giving me access to all her email and device passwords is definitely needed, but I need a lot more than just that. In the list of things I need, I'm not sure its the first thing, (but maybe it is and I'm just not aware it is). I will ask her about it today, if she is willing to do that. I have not asked her in many, many months, so I will ask her today.
If she gives me some silly reason why she does not want to allow it (She wanted privacy to talk to a common friend whom she takes council from), what should I say?
Maybe I can tell her that I understand that she needs privacy about "what" she talks about or discusses during her own support, but I need to know "who" she talks to? Regarding email, I'm not sure if she emails any emotions that may be resentful towards me and how she feels about me reading any resentful thoughts she may have towards me? How should I let her know that its important she is open about ALL her feelings and not just the positive ones that she may want to "showcase" to me?

Jumping in to response to this. Having her be transparent with emails and passwords is and should be the first thing you need. And the silly reason that she needs privacy to talk to common friends is B.S. (Ha Pun not intended.) If you want any chance of reconciliation, her being open and honest is goal number one. I always say Love is a Choice, Forgiveness is a Choice, but trust has to be earned. Her giving access to her accounts online goes a long way to earning that trust.

The excuses to want privacy to talk to her friends is the same type of crap my serial cheating former spouse said to me, and as the nice guy (read doormat) I allowed it. Guess what. She was carrying on a new affair the entire time she needed her privacy. And She has cheated at least emotionally with her new husband.

The things you tell me sound all too familiar and are huge red flags to me. I would suspect she has not ended her adultery. It may be just continued emotional adultery but that will lead to another physical adultery. Keeping passwords from you?!? Having a strange duffle bag of belongings that are not yours?!?!?! Does she get strange secret gifts or treats that you don't know where they came from as well?!?! Please open your eyes and read between the lines, I'd put money on another guy still in the picture, maybe it's not the same one, but someone is still at least providing her emotional support. If she isn't physically cheating again, just wait... It will happen.

I feel like you are getting a lot of good advice in here and I don't have much more to add except maybe a big old dose of reality that things could quite possible be worse then you really think and you are not really on the path of reconciliation but rather she's just better at hiding her true actions and nothing has really changed. The formula just feels all too familiar to me.

Edited January 25, 2016 by MadJackBird

January 25, 2016

It doesn't make much sense to confess to an affair and then continue on with it. Just sayin'.

If she wanted to continue cheating, she probably wouldn't have outed herself. Most likely, she's just whining to her friends and doesn't want her husband reading along.

Now, I'm in complete agreement that transparency is important, but in some regards it's also an illusion. A determined cheater can open up new email accounts and apps faster than a betrayed spouse can crack them. Further, we can drive ourselves completely bonkers checking up on every communication and trying to derive meaning from it.

I think there's something to be had in our innate knowledge of our mate. When something feels off, it often is. On the other hand, underneath the pain and hurt, I think it's likely that the OP knows intuitively if there's some basic level of honesty. His radar is super fine-tuned at this point.

Sometimes it's really hard not to let one's imagination run rampant in the aftermath of betrayal, and sometimes we need to reassure ourselves that what we've been told is the actual truth. Checking can help with that, but it can also become a problem when we don't know when to stop.

January 25, 2016

When she says she wants privacy, your ONLY response should be 'you lost the right to that kind of privacy when you cheated; if you want to stay married to ME, you will forego that type of privacy until I am convinced you will not cheat again. If you're not happy with that, there's the door.'

January 25, 2016

I'd be curious to know what exactly she is saying to other people (her friends, presumably) that you don't get to know about. I'm of the view that in a marriage, privacy is for the bathroom. She is supposed to be your partner for all things in life. So what secrets should she be keeping from you? What conversations is she having with her friends that she cannot have with you?

This kind of secretive behavior is a continuation of wayward thoughts and behaviors. Considering that she's been given a second chance at putting her marriage first, her life should be an open book. There should be NO secrets. And she should be especially mindful of that while she's rebuilding trust.

So again, what could she be saying to these friends that you don't have the right to know and hear? From your own perspective, do you think she should have these kinds of relationships where you are excluded from the truth, even if it's just her thoughts or feelings?

January 25, 2016

In this session, we were supposed to discuss a list of what we needed from each other, for reconciliation to work.

We started the session with the counsellor "optimistically" asking me how my last week was. Honestly, I was a little disgusted by her question, because the thought that came to my mind was, "Does she really expect things to be different, with just 1 session of marriage counseling, especially when we had not even got to talking about the 'real stuff'?"

I just replied to her with a disappointed face, telling her that I was still suffering and was in misery since last week.

She either seemed disappointed or genuinely felt the pain I was experiencing. I could not tell.

I told her that I had made a small list, but somehow, the conversation went back towards discussing the relation before the affair. Unfortunately, this second session mostly seemed to continue with relating our history before the affair.

Even though I felt like I really wanted to address the affair, I felt like I needed to justify the state of our relationship before the affair (subconsciously to prove that the affair could not be blamed on the state of the relationship).

In the previous session, my wife had had an opportunity to talk about the hurt she felt in our relationship before the affair, but I had not had this chance.

I took the opportunity to describe how I also felt very hurt and neglected in the relationship before her affair. I brought out the fact that my wife used to spend many hours, a lot of her mental energy and efforts in trying to help her younger brother.

A brother who has been physically abusive to her during her childhood and continued to be abusive. She used to spend hours talking to him, trying to justify why we could not help him financially and why he needed to take charge of his own life (He was a grown man, 32 years old).

She used to describe to him how tough life was in America for everybody and how he should not expect financial sustenance from us.

She used to spend many many hours preparing his resume for him (He is a high school dropout), trying to get him job interviews and even trying to find a wife for him!

I used to feel very neglected when she behaved this way. I brought this out to the counselor. My wife started to justify her actions, but then the counselor stopped her to remind her that she could not contest with my feelings because they were my feelings and only I knew how I really felt.

Another thing we spoke about was about the financial control my wife felt. To that we talked about we had now divided the house expenses into 50-50%, as opposed to me paying for every expense for 15 years, even though my wife did earn a salary in most of those years.

It was ofcourse my choice to pay for everything, not hers. My wife expressed how she was not exactly happy with the 50-50% that we had now decided for all expenses. The marriage counselor commented that it might have been more normal to divide the expenses in the ratio of our earnings.

To that I commented that my wife made "enough" of an income and that our salaries were high enough (and close enough) to not make that distinction. I also expressed that she could easily afford to pay 50% and that there was no reason for her not to.

My wife expressed that this had previously been "negotiated" between us with the help of a common friend. The marriage counselor commented that even 50-50% was fine and there was no harm in it.

Another topic of conversation was about how we visualized spending time together and possible misconceptions in the past.

I told her how I liked fixing things around the house and in the car, if I was capable of it. How it gave me a sense of satisfaction and joy to do that (being the engineer I am).

How it wasn't only about saving money to fix things myself, but also brought me joy. I expressed how it would have been so good if my wife appreciated me more, say for fixing the microwave transformer or something else in the house.

About spending time with me and helping me, say by handing me a screwdriver when I was in a tight spot, or cheering when I managed to fix something.

The marriage counselor asked my wife to consider all those possibilities when she visualized ways in which to spend quality time with me.

Anyway, most of the session went by talking about the past, and one of the conversations that came up was about me trying to independently heal myself.

I admited to the counselor that I had tried to do just that in the past 6 months. The counselor recognized that my wife and I were at different points in the healing process and were landing up not being able to meet each other's needs for healing.

I admited to the counselor that although I had tried to independently heal, I had not been successful in that effort. I also explained to her why I felt that was so.

I explained to her that my entire idea of life (my dream) was of a wonderful relationship with a "disney princess", my wife, who would always be there for me, no matter what. I told her that I could not imagine my life with this dream continuing to be shattered.

The counselor tried to stress that perhaps I should try to imagine a "new dream", but I told her that I had tried to do that, but it was not possible for me.

I told her that the only way that would be possible is if I completely gave up on my wife and mentally imagined that it was over with her, and seeked this same dream from another woman.

But obviously, because I was trying to make things work with my wife, I could not, at the same time, imagine the opposite... That it was over with her.

She understood my predicament.

With all this talking and explanation, almost the entire session was over.

We finally began talking about my needs. The only need I was able to bring up (I started crying at this point), was the fact that I needed my wife to acknowledge the extreme pain and suffering I felt, everyday. I described how I have landed up crying in front of a whole group of corporate executives in the company where I work, during a presentation, about how my pain and suffering has surfaced in daily life.

I told her that I did not even feel that my wife acknowledged or understood how deeply and badly she had damaged me as a person. About how I did not feel her actions and behaviors reflected much empathy, love or compassion for my condition.

I gave her an example of how I saw my wife dragging a duffel bag full of another man's clothes to her car, about how insensitive she was behaving and about how she had addressed my pain as a "drama" in an argument we had about a week ago.

To this, my wife started justifying her actions again, instead of acknowledging the effect and damage of her continued behaviors.

At this point, the time in our session was almost over, so the counselor wanted me to make another list. A list of what specific actions my wife could take to show me that she acknowledged my pain and was able to "get it" and also take action to make me feel supported.

I told her that we had made many such lists in the past, but there had been no positive result of just making those lists, because the outcome of that was that my wife had moved out of the bedroom for 6 months.

The counselor told me that we were in a different stage of the healing process now and that perhaps my wife would now be ready to execute on my list.

So, I told the counselor that I was ready to make such a list for the next session. I did not get a chance to bring out that I needed full transparency with all my wife's devices and passwords and I realized this after we left the session. I realized that the session was so involved in other aspects that I had forgotten about bring up this aspect.

We left the counseling session. My wife seemed a little relieved. The expression on her face was almost like, "Ok, so we survived one more marriage counseling session.".

To me, it almost felt like she felt like some of the issues had been rug swept in this session and she felt relieved about it.

I felt like she felt optimistic that things would work out eventually, with this level of "responsibility" that currently had been put on her, till date.

In the conversation outside the office, in the parking lot near our cars (it was a Friday), I asked her what she had planned for the evening. She told me she had originally planned some dance classes she had scheduled to teach some kids, but also said she could easily cancel those and schedule them for another day.

My wife teaches dance to kids. Anyway, to that, I responded saying that I could try to leave work a little earlier and we could do something that evening as a family as well as just as a couple.

Later that afternoon, my wife texted me to ask about how I would like to spend the evening. Her initiative to spend time together did make me feel better.

Inspite of planning to leave work early, I was not able to, as I got held up with an important task.

My wife waited for me and we did land up doing all the family activity (Pictionary) and couple activity (A Movie) that we had planned. It became late in the night and we just landed up going to sleep afterward.

January 25, 2016

I'd be curious to know what exactly she is saying to other people (her friends, presumably) that you don't get to know about. I'm of the view that in a marriage, privacy is for the bathroom. She is supposed to be your partner for all things in life. So what secrets should she be keeping from you? What conversations is she having with her friends that she cannot have with you?

This kind of secretive behavior is a continuation of wayward thoughts and behaviors. Considering that she's been given a second chance at putting her marriage first, her life should be an open book. There should be NO secrets. And she should be especially mindful of that while she's rebuilding trust.

So again, what could she be saying to these friends that you don't have the right to know and hear? From your own perspective, do you think she should have these kinds of relationships where you are excluded from the truth, even if it's just her thoughts or feelings?

I accidentally overheard some of her conversations (She has also accidentally overheard some of mine). I only heard her side, as she talked from her cellphone, from inside the closet.

She was describing to this common friend how I reacted to her and how she saw me angry. How fights happened between us sometimes. She told my friend that she found it very hard to come to me when she felt disrespected. She told him that she felt resentment from me and that she found it very hard to show me her love and support when she saw resentment in me.

She even asked him if it was a good idea if she should request a separation if she felt this way, 80% of the time.

I believe my friend tried to explain to her that it was normal for me to feel resentment and disgust, under these circumstances. I believe he advised her to correct her perspective and to be patient with me.

At the same time, I believe he also advised her to not push herself to do anything which made her feel disrespected. After she found out that I had accidentally overheard some things, she asked about specifically what I had overheard. Then, she started justifying things, saying that she was in the process of correcting her own perception of me and that I should try to be patient with her.

In my opinion, I don't think these are conversations that should be hidden. I think we should honestly share what we think and feel about each other at all times and there should be complete transparency.

Even if there are negative feelings, I think its important that we know about them too, just as its also important to know about the positive feelings.

I think I plan to bring this up with the counselor. I believe that every emotion should be known to the other person, and not even be held or hidden in our own minds.

There is a risk of taking those negative emotions the wrong way, but I think that lack of honesty and transparency are a bigger risk here. What do you and other members here think?

Is it a good idea for us to share all thoughts and emotions we feel with the other partner? Or perhaps just one way, where she tells me all? Or perhaps in a controlled way in which we both tell each other, but I only express my positive emotions? (Lest she lose hope?)

January 25, 2016

When she says she wants privacy, your ONLY response should be 'you lost the right to that kind of privacy when you cheated; if you want to stay married to ME, you will forego that type of privacy until I am convinced you will not cheat again. If you're not happy with that, there's the door.'

Regardless of the right to privacy, another important question is the usefulness and purpose of privacy. Are all thoughts, emotions and feelings useful to share with the other partner?

e.g. If I truly feel sometimes about what a selfish b*tch my wife is, maybe I feel that way at a particular instant of time, but would sharing that emotion with my wife really be helpful, just in the name of honesty and transparency?

What if she thinks that I always thought she was a selfish b*tch for all the years I was married to her (I did NOT always think this), and what if she loses hope that I will ever be able to forgive her and she stops trying?

So, my question is: Is ALL sharing of thoughts useful? In other words, is some privacy helpful?

January 25, 2016

NS....

I think these sessions are a total waste of your time. You need individual therapy (with a different therapist)...not marriage therapy.

You also need to accept the fact that your wife does not want to reconcile. She wants to co exist.

What do you want?

January 25, 2016

Regardless of the right to privacy, another important question is the usefulness and purpose of privacy. Are all thoughts, emotions and feelings useful to share with the other partner?
e.g. If I truly feel sometimes about what a selfish b*tch my wife is, maybe I feel that way at a particular instant of time, but would sharing that emotion with my wife really be helpful, just in the name of honesty and transparency?
What if she thinks that I always thought she was a selfish b*tch for all the years I was married to her (I did NOT always think this), and what if she loses hope that I will ever be able to forgive her and she stops trying?

So, my question is: Is ALL sharing of thoughts useful? In other words, is some privacy helpful?

It's important to share your thoughts and feelings, yes. That said, you need to remember that thoughts and feelings are often fleeting. What you feel one day might not be what you feel the next.

Toward that end, what you might do is run such transactions through the 'what-purpose-am-I-trying-to-serve?' filter. Does your comment or question serve your goal? Does it resolve any disquiet in your mind? Does it relieve any anxiety? Does it help you understand your partner more?

That's why it's important to actually set a goal. Are you reconciling or divorcing? If you're not completely sure you want to divorce, then put your whole effort into reconciling. If you already know you want a divorce, then start the process.

Making a decision to go 'all in' on reconciliation doesn't mean you can't or won't change your mind later. Who knows?... you might. But if you set the goal as reconciliation, you'll be better prepared to refrain from further damaging the relationship.

Sounds like your MC did a pretty good job, btw. It's a painfully slow process though. And although I understand how a betrayal like this puts everything you thought you knew to the question... sometimes you just have to embrace reality. There are no "disney princesses". Life isn't a fairy tale. As we travel the path laid out before us, we find that if we live long enough, all we loved and cared about eventually falls away. I know that sounds depressing, but sometimes a little perspective can go a long way.

January 25, 2016

I think that session was incredibly helpful. Why? When you are telling her this stuff at home, she doesn't listen to you. Defensively, she just tunes you out. And nothing gets done. When you tell it to the MC, she has to really HEAR it, and often the MC is helping her see what you really mean, and maybe even come to feel it. Don't get disappointed. I think it's good progress.

Now, you may come to a realization that she really IS just a selfish b*tch. Lots of women are. Lots of women are raised to just believe it's her job to 'catch' a man and then live her life, forgetting about him and letting him pay for everything. You may have just found one of those women. I suspect you'll start to figure out if that's true in another 4 or 5 sessions.

And yes, strive for 100% transparency. A goal for marriage isn't to avoid conflict. That serves no purpose. Tell her YOUR truth, from YOUR viewpoint (not blaming her, just showing how YOU feel when she does whatever), and then back away and let her own her own emotion about it.

Try to avoid arguing. She'll stop listening and stop cooperating. State your truth and move on. State it not to get something from her, but to help her understand. Keep doing that when the opportunity presents itself, but don't go looking for an opportunity. Just live one day at a time, striving to be honest, helpful, loving, and confident that you'll survive no matter what. That's attractive.

January 26, 2016

He cannot reconcile by himself. No matter how much he may want it. There has to be MOVEMENT by his wife. It is not HIS decision...it is THEIR decision.

So no matter how ALL IN he may be...if she isn't ALL IN...it is a waste of time.

She STILL has not given him step one....she is still having private conversations,withholding information and passwords.....keeping other men's clothes in her room with a poor explanation of why.

I am all about reconciliation.....I am your biggest cheerleader.....you are the quarterback....but you have to have a receiver to catch the ball....and i don't think she is very receptive.

How was this session helpful? He said she was relieved when it was over and continued to rug sweep. She did not listen....she put in her time and did NOTHING to change ANYTHING.

January 26, 2016

He cannot reconcile by himself. No matter how much he may want it. There has to be MOVEMENT by his wife. It is not HIS decision...it is THEIR decision.

So no matter how ALL IN he may be...if she isn't ALL IN...it is a waste of time.

She STILL has not given him step one....she is still having private conversations,withholding information and passwords.....keeping other men's clothes in her room with a poor explanation of why.

I am all about reconciliation.....I am your biggest cheerleader.....you are the quarterback....but you have to have a receiver to catch the ball....and i don't think she is very receptive.

How was this session helpful? He said she was relieved when it was over and continued to rug sweep. She did not listen....she put in her time and did NOTHING to change ANYTHING.

She sounds fairly typical to me. Cheaters tend to want to put the whole mess behind them and not talk about it. They're usually anxious that they'll never be truly forgiven and that they'll end up saying things that cause further injury. It's common.

This particular situation has been complicated by the OP's earlier, albeit understandable, mishandling of the early months after D-day. That safe space for communication never materialized. Honest question... do you think you'd still be married today if you had been asked to participate in sex videos, had your confession taped for hours on end, and never knew whether a comforting overture would be accepted or rejected?

I'm not saying whether the OP should divorce or not. That's up to him. But those kind of reactions are naturally going to cause withdrawal.

Look, I hate adultery... with a freaking passion, I hate adultery. But you can't reconcile a marriage until you've created a safe environment in which to do the work.

Transparency is important. I get that. But it's much more likely to happen naturally once the OP has his emotions under control and behaves with predictability. Safe space... burgeoning trust... transparency... accountability... it's all a journey, one step at a time.

January 26, 2016

She sounds fairly typical to me. Cheaters tend to want to put the whole mess behind them and not talk about it. They're usually anxious that they'll never be truly forgiven and that they'll end up saying things that cause further injury. It's common.

This particular situation has been complicated by the OP's earlier, albeit understandable, mishandling of the early months after D-day. That safe space for communication never materialized. Honest question... do you think you'd still be married today if you had been asked to participate in sex videos, had your confession taped for hours on end, and never knew whether a comforting overture would be accepted or rejected?

I'm not saying whether the OP should divorce or not. That's up to him. But those kind of reactions are naturally going to cause withdrawal.

Look, I hate adultery... with a freaking passion, I hate adultery. But you can't reconcile a marriage until you've created a safe environment in which to do the work.

Transparency is important. I get that. But it's much more likely to happen naturally once the OP has his emotions under control and behaves with predictability. Safe space... burgeoning trust... transparency... accountability... it's all a journey, one step at a time.

you are preaching to the choir

I am a FWW....I know exactly how it feels to be a WW.....

Yes I would still be married.....yes I would have done anything my husband asked me to do....yes we made many mistakes....yes he was crazy and i was desperate......All of the above

The difference?

I became transparent immediately and have stayed that way for 32 years. I continued to sleep in my husbands bed....I did whatever he asked of me sexually...and i still do.

She has done NOTHING...she moved into another bedroom....talks in secret on her phone and stores other men's clothes with no explanation....refuses to help him in any way shape or form.

I hate adultery too....believe me i do....and i am all for reconciliation....but this man CANNOT do this without her help. This is a fact....he can't. They can co exist...and if that is enough for him...wonderful....but it is not reconciliation.

January 26, 2016

you are preaching to the choir

I am a FWW....I know exactly how it feels to be a WW.....

Yes I would still be married.....yes I would have done anything my husband asked me to do....yes we made many mistakes....yes he was crazy and i was desperate......All of the above

The difference?

I became transparent immediately and have stayed that way for 32 years. I continued to sleep in my husbands bed....I did whatever he asked of me sexually...and i still do.

She has done NOTHING...she moved into another bedroom....talks in secret on her phone and stores other men's clothes with no explanation....refuses to help him in any way shape or form.

I hate adultery too....believe me i do....and i am all for reconciliation....but this man CANNOT do this without her help. This is a fact....he can't. They can co exist...and if that is enough for him...wonderful....but it is not reconciliation.

I disagree that she's "done nothing". She confessed the affair voluntarily, tolerated treatment for 3 months that most of us would find completely unacceptable if there weren't an infidelity involved, and THEN she withdrew.

I just think a repair needs to be made in order to recreate that safe space. If I walk a mile in this formerly wayward's shoes.. I don't know what to expect from moment to moment. No way I'm giving up my emotional support system if I'm thinking I might end up tossed out on my ass.

You're right that he can't control her actions. But he can control his own. If you're taming a stray cat, you put down a saucer of milk every day, same time, same place, predictable. You don't kick it every fifth time it comes to the saucer.

It's about being trustworthy. You can't choose whether someone else will be. But you can choose it for yourself.

January 26, 2016

She needs to be asking him...WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU?

She needs to be grateful he is allowing her to stay in her home.

She needs to put HIS NEEDS BEFORE HER OWN.

She needs to prove to him she is worthy of a second chance.

It is not up to HIM to woo the kitty!!!!!!!!

The kitty purred for someone else!!!!!!!!!

She better be proving to him how sorry she is.

This is not about NS...proving to her HE is worth a second chance.

what he should have done is kick her ass to the curb....but he didn't.

I have all kinds of sympathy for his wife.....i have walked in her shoes

But she is the one who stabbed her husband in his heart and twisted the knife.

It is her responsibility to breath life back into his broken body....and if she can't do it....then walk away. There will be someone else willing to help him.

There comes a time to take responsibility for what you have done.....he has begged her...he has pleaded....and yet she ignores his request.

Give him your damn passwords.....how hard is that?

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Dealing with wife's affair.

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