Dealing with wife's affair.

[Ladyjane14]

NS......40 pages of advice.....hundreds of replies....and you are still asking the same questions you started with.

 

when i had my affair....I confessed to my husband.....and i said to him...I understand if you need to leave and divorce me and i will ask for nothing.

 

What did your wife say?

 

I immediately became transparent...I gave him my schedule....my passwords....EVERYTHING.

 

What did your wife do?

 

I continued to sleep in our bed and have sex with my husband.

 

What has your wife done?

I answered all questions my husband asked me.

 

What questions has your wife answered?

 

 

Now...let's switch this to my husband

 

When i confessed my affair...he asked me to stay.

 

He went to MY MOTHER and confided in her.

 

I was very glad he did that...he needed someone....and i respect my mom.

 

He was kind to me...and caring... and loving. He did not treat me cruelly....he did not abuse me...he was not controlling.

He cried....he was very very depressed...and took medication for depression....and we went to a psychologist.....who was of no help whatsoever.

 

I am very afraid that you are expecting the MC to be a miracle worker....the MC cannot make your wife do what is necessary to help you. Do you understand that? all they can do is offer advice and solutions....but YOU and YOUR WIFE have to be willing to implement the suggestions.

 

You have proven to many of us here that you are not willing to take the necessary steps required for healing...both for you and for your wife.

 

You are so focused on what you believe will make everything ok...you are so intent on keeping your family together...that you are ignoring all the things that are so obvious to those of us reading what you write.

 

STEP NUMBER ONE to healing reconciliation remorse and forgiveness....TRANSPARENCY

 

 

Has your wife become transparent? Has she shared with you all of her passwords...who she is talking to on the phone....where she is going and who she is going with? EVERYDAY?

 

IF your wife cannot give you step one...you cannot proceed to step two.

 

Do you understand that? Do you understand that the MC cannot make her become transparent?

She has to become transparent BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO......

 

I am not telling you to divorce your wife....I am telling you...that as a FWW....I understand her mindset....but I do NOT understand her unwillingness to become transparent. To me it says....she is not READY for reconciliation. What she is ready for....is to remain in your home....and live separate lives.

 

My question for you then is.....is this acceptable to you? Are you ok with living in the same home....separately?

 

If you are NOT...then take a stand...and tell her....this situation is not acceptable...and then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

 

IF it is acceptable...then you have to be ok with things exactly the way they are now...because nothing is going to change.

 

You seem intent on giving her more time....fine.

Then you have to accept things exactly the way they are.....and in 6 months...you can reevaluate again...and decide if you have had enough.

 

Your wife is not going to change....because you are not requiring her to change. You are accepting the situation just as it is....living separate lives in the same house.

 

I think the question he needs to be asking himself is WHY she's not willing to become transparent. It's either one of two things. Either there's something still going on... or she doesn't trust HIM. Why?

 

As far as I can see from what the OP has written here, there's never been a safe, reliable, emotional space from which to work. If the OP were to read Getting Past the Affair: A Program to Help You Cope, Heal, and Move On -- Together or Apart by Snyder and Baucom, he's see how important it is to create an environment that's conducive to reconciliation.

 

While it's true that you do have to be willing to end a marriage in order to save it, it's also true that you can't save it without restoring Trust. And trust is a two-way street. I don't see Trust on either side here. Worse, I don't see an environment for it to blossom and grow.

 

The OP seems focused on his own pain, and for any of us who've been there, that's understandable. It's a traumatic stress injury. It rewires your brain; fight, flight, or freeze. But here's the problem... if Reconciliation is the goal, those impulses don't move you toward it. You HAVE TO exercise self-control and set up that safe space.

 

In short, while I agree that Transparency is essential, if the OP isn't getting it, I think he needs to explore the reason why.

[Ladyjane14]

Here's another question... I wonder if it might be helpful to the OP if people who had confessed to an affair (which might not have otherwise gone undiscovered) told him why they chose to do so? What is it that you're hoping to achieve when you confess voluntarily?

 

It occurs to me that whatever the goal was... it appears to have gone down in flames for the WW in this case.

[katielee]

OP - I'm purposely not answering your questions because you're looking into the mind of a former wayward to try to figure out your wife so you can control things. I'm not going to enable that.

You need to be looking at yourself.

no transparency = no marriage. pretty simple.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't think his wife views him as weak and pathetic....and wants him to be a he man .....I think she is doing what many do.....she is having her cake and eating it too.

 

He is allowing her behavior...so why should she change?

 

I confessed to my husband because i understood what i had done...and i was sorry for what i had done....and i wanted my husband. I could have gone my whole life without telling him and he would never have known...but i chose to be straightforward...answer his questions and become totally transparent. I CHOSE TO DO IT...he did not ASK ME.

 

I did not have the internet, or forums.....I did not read books......(and i wish i DID have all the things folks have today)

 

NS...do you see the difference? I WANTED MY HUSBAND....SO I TOOK ACTION TO KEEP HIM

 

What action has your wife taken?

 

We were young and poor....I certainly did not want to stay because he had money.

 

Realistically....look at the things your wife has done to prove to you that she deserves a second chance. What has she done to help you heal? What has she done to show you she is remorseful? Be very honest with yourself.

 

Have you read the book how to help your spouse heal from your affair by linda macdonald yet? you can download it free...and it is 95 pages. Get it....because you need to understand the steps necessary for healing....and so does your wife. If she reads this book...and she STILL does not begin to be transparent...then she is NOT ready for reconciliation.

 

My guess is...your wife does not understand what reconciliation is. It does not mean co existence....

 

You have had many months to evaluate....the time has come to do require action. I am not talking about divorce...yes that is an action....but i am talking about requiring her to be accountable for what she has done.

I am talking about sitting her down..and telling her exactly how you feel...EVERYTHING you feel.

Watch her responses.....if she pulls back from you instead of reaching toward you....if she recoils within herself instead of taking you in her arms to comfort you....if she doesn't cry and tell you how sorry she is and give you her passwords and take you to bed.....

Then she has given you the answers you desperately seek.....and the answer is she is not ready to reconcile...and she may never be ready to reconcile.

 

You then can decide....if living the way you are living is acceptable. If your answer is no...then i would say divorce is the action you must take. If your answer is yes....then stop complaining.....go to IC to work on you....and live the rest of your life with your wife in the bedroom down the hall.

 

You have two choices here NS.....stay...or leave.

Which one do you want?

[turnera]

Maybe I do have my head stuck in the sand. Maybe there is nothing left and I should just file for divorce.

FYI - for the hundredth time - filing for divorce does not mean you are instantly divorced. It means you are putting her on notice that you are finally protecting yourself and on a path toward divorce and she now has X months to get her head out of her ass before you ARE divorced. So she is then forced to either accept divorce and do nothing...or wake the hell up and FIGHT for you.

 

Either way, you'll have your answer. Finally.

[turnera]

I think the question he needs to be asking himself is WHY she's not willing to become transparent. It's either one of two things. Either there's something still going on... or she doesn't trust HIM. Why?

 

As far as I can see from what the OP has written here, there's never been a safe, reliable, emotional space from which to work. If the OP were to read Getting Past the Affair: A Program to Help You Cope, Heal, and Move On -- Together or Apart by Snyder and Baucom, he's see how important it is to create an environment that's conducive to reconciliation.

 

While it's true that you do have to be willing to end a marriage in order to save it, it's also true that you can't save it without restoring Trust. And trust is a two-way street. I don't see Trust on either side here. Worse, I don't see an environment for it to blossom and grow.

 

The OP seems focused on his own pain, and for any of us who've been there, that's understandable. It's a traumatic stress injury. It rewires your brain; fight, flight, or freeze. But here's the problem... if Reconciliation is the goal, those impulses don't move you toward it. You HAVE TO exercise self-control and set up that safe space.

 

In short, while I agree that Transparency is essential, if the OP isn't getting it, I think he needs to explore the reason why.

I couldn't agree more. WHILE you are on the path to divorce, do some serious hardcore soul searching to see if you are the person she would WANT to fight for.

 

Therapy therapy therapy.

[turnera]

I don't think his wife views him as weak and pathetic....and wants him to be a he man .....I think she is doing what many do.....she is having her cake and eating it too.

When I say that, I don't mean she's sitting there, drinking a coke and saying to her BFF 'NS is so weak and disgusting.' It's an observation, a feeling. She's not even aware she's feeling it, it's just silently coloring her choices.

 

He is allowing her behavior...so why should she change?

Exactly why he has to stop allowing it and move on; let her run to catch up to him. IF he's worth it.

 

NS...do you see the difference? I WANTED MY HUSBAND....SO I TOOK ACTION TO KEEP HIM

Exactly. Your wife doesn't HAVE to take an y action because you're throwing yourself at her feet.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I have been doing tremendous soul searching about myself in the last 9 months. It has been an obvious result of my sense of identity having been completely shattered.

 

I will post what I have learnt about myself and where I seem to be "stuck".

 

There is a saying that problems don't exist in relationships. They exist in people, so if a relationship breaks, some people think that getting into a new relationship solves the problems, but in reality, we may just be taking our own problems into a brand new relationship, to just have similar problems in a new relationship. I would be very grateful if people on this forum (who understand what I mean) can give me feedback on their own soul searching (Wayward and Betrayed angles), simply about how to know if this is what is happening.

The last thing I want is NOT knowing that I was the major problem in the relationship. I will be completely transparent. I also plan to go for IC for myself, to address this concern I have.

 

I do admit that I had some issues (along with my wife also having some issues of her own) that caused the relationship to go bad (before the affair), but I don't take any responsibility for the affair itself. That is what my wife needs to take 100% responsibility for.

[Mrs. John Adams]

You are both responsible for the flaws in the marriage... But she is responsible for her choice to cheat.

 

She is also responsible for helping you to heal the marriage.

 

She is doing nothing.... Which says.. She is not 100% committed to the marriage.

 

You can fix you but you cannot fix her. Nor can a mc fix her.

 

So do you allow her present behavior to continue? Do you accept her exactly the way she is?

 

Until she commits... And gives you transparency... She is not doing anything toward repairing the relationship. Do you see this?

 

She will go to mc with you to appease you... But she still has to make a move toward transparency.

 

Every relationship.. Every infidelity is different... But this is the first step in healing... And that does not fluctuate...

 

 

Step one is transparency in every case

[cja]

My way of taking action and charge initially was this:

 

1) Feeling a lot of pain, anger, disgust, some hatred and putting her on the spot to tell me every detail of what, why, how, etc. She did tell me everything in her confessions which I literally had to threaten out of her.

I even recorded her confessions (with her consent ofcourse), because I used to keep asking some questions repeatedly and we figured I could just hear a recording of her confession again if the same questions kept bothering me.

2) Also feeling compassion, and a sense of being able to get over this trauma, as well as assuring her that I could eventually forgive her if she helped me do it.

3) Demanding and sometimes even begging that she support me in any way that I needed, including spending lots of time with me, hugging me, having sex with me (I asked her how many times a week she would herself have wanted to, in a passionate relationship, even if this affair would have not happened, and she told me about 3 times a week), and making sex videos together (with her consent). Apart from this, we also used to schedule family time together, with the kids, but about 2 hours a day were spent on our needs to reconcile in any way that was needed by me.

4) Requesting her to bear with my emotional mood swings because of my bipolar emotional reactions. In my worst moments, I would give her a silent treatment and on a few occasions even left home to go to sleep in a park, returning the next morning. In my best moments, I would be positive, seek her help, and assure her that everything would eventually work out.

5) Seeking out additional help and support from selected family members and close friends, as even with her level of support, my pain and trauma was so great that her support could not keep up with my rate of recovery and I needed more support from close friends and family.

6) Going for individual counseling as well as a few sessions of joint counseling with her.

7) Reading web articles on affair recovery, together with her as well as individually.

8) Meeting for lunch during our lunch hours, from work, talking, discussing our recovery, but sometimes also overreacting during these lunch hours in which we had some fights.

 

We were packed, in terms of time, and I was doing everything that I could think of to get over and "take charge". Are there some aspects of my taking charge that obviously were bad ideas? Was I taking too much charge? I also did let her drive, as I mentioned earlier, because we each had our own lists about what was needed in terms of recovering from the affair itself as well as repairing the relationship that she felt was responsible for leading to her affair.

 

So, could it really be that she felt I did not take enough charge?

Or could she have thought that I was not able to manage my emotional pain or my bipolar mood swings (which are just a reality for me)?

 

In your soul searching consider whatever it is that happened between you and your wife in the fighting over her affair that led you to describe it as you literally had to threaten it out of her. And I'd be willing to bet the mood swings might have included more than just the silent treatment. If so consider these things in your quest for personal growth and understanding.

Edited January 13, 2016 by cja

[Mr Blunt]

BY OP.........What is evident from what you and a lot of posters think is that the only "action" that is possible is that of filing for divorce.

You must not read my posts very carefully as I have NOT advocated that the ONLY action is divorce. If you read what I posted (see reprint below) you will see that that I said that AFTER “you get stronger you can help your wife if she will help herself and allow you to help.”

Previous post by BLUNT

I am going to tell you again that you can only work on getting yourself stronger as you are too weak to help your weak wife. Stop talking, get all kinds of help and start taking actions to get you stronger.

After you get stronger you can help your wife if she will help herself and allow you to help. Right now you need to concentrate on yourself or you will wind up a miserable door mat and not good for anyone!

 

You keep wanting to include your wife in your actions because you are too dependent on her to fix you. She has proven that she is not enough for you to get a lot better and I get that from your many posts. You want to avoid concentrating on ONLY you because that is very hard and it will require you to face your weakness. You have been told many times on this thread that you need to get stronger and that requires you to TAKE ACTIONS TO CHANGE YOU AND TO BUILD YOURSELF BACK UP! You want to lean on your wife when she is not enough. Your wife may help you on some ways but she is more of a negative than a positive according to your posts.

 

 

You are fearful and weak (like most of us were) and you are depending on your wife to fix you. Your posts have told us that she is not enough to fix you so stop using her as your crutch to not face your weaknesses. Your top priority right now should be you building YOURSELF back up before you tackle the issue of to divorce or not divorce. Right now you are operating on fear and weakness. ONLY YOU CAN FIX THAT!

[Naively.Sensitive]

You must not read my posts very carefully as I have NOT advocated that the ONLY action is divorce. If you read what I posted (see reprint below) you will see that that I said that AFTER “you get stronger you can help your wife if she will help herself and allow you to help.”

You keep wanting to include your wife in your actions because you are too dependent on her to fix you. She has proven that she is not enough for you to get a lot better and I get that from your many posts. You want to avoid concentrating on ONLY you because that is very hard and it will require you to face your weakness. You have been told many times on this thread that you need to get stronger and that requires you to TAKE ACTIONS TO CHANGE YOU AND TO BUILD YOURSELF BACK UP! You want to lean on your wife when she is not enough. Your wife may help you on some ways but she is more of a negative than a positive according to your posts.

 

 

You are fearful and weak (like most of us were) and you are depending on your wife to fix you. Your posts have told us that she is not enough to fix you so stop using her as your crutch to not face your weaknesses. Your top priority right now should be you building YOURSELF back up before you tackle the issue of to divorce or not divorce. Right now you are operating on fear and weakness. ONLY YOU CAN FIX THAT!

 

This is a very very useful post and perhaps what I have been missing to understand (even though it may have been pointed out earlier).

 

One of my questions (which I had asked earlier, see post #347 and my conclusion in post #459) is this: What if my personal recovery is dependent on the relationship recovering? What I mean is, what if the most important thing in my life was to have this good relationship (which I understand I cannot force to happen), and if it cannot happen, then I stay broken?

 

So, I think I probably need to do just one of the things that are already suggested: Be stubborn about my dreams of what I need from the relationship and if my wife does not match those requirements, that I just "walk". Then if my wife does meet the requirements, I would have been fixed (because my basic needs would have been met), and if she does not meet the requirements, I would still have been fixed (because I would have realized that I need to move on and look elsewhere)

[Naively.Sensitive]

Instead of talking about what was - I'd like to know what your new action will look like.

 

And how did therapy go today?

 

Therapy is yet to happen.

Therapy (MC) is tomorrow, around midday.

 

I will also ask the MC tomorrow, what my action "should be", in her professional opinion. It may take another session to get to that point, as the first session may just be used up in relating the incidents and what has transpired in the affair and in the months following it, (by way of what we have already tried to repair the damage)

[Ladyjane14]

This is a very very useful post and perhaps what I have been missing to understand (even though it may have been pointed out earlier).

 

One of my questions (which I had asked earlier, see post #347 and my conclusion in post #459) is this: What if my personal recovery is dependent on the relationship recovering? What I mean is, what if the most important thing in my life was to have this good relationship (which I understand I cannot force to happen), and if it cannot happen, then I stay broken?

 

So, I think I probably need to do just one of the things that are already suggested: Be stubborn about my dreams of what I need from the relationship and if my wife does not match those requirements, that I just "walk". Then if my wife does meet the requirements, I would have been fixed (because my basic needs would have been met), and if she does not meet the requirements, I would still have been fixed (because I would have realized that I need to move on and look elsewhere)

 

Your wife CAN'T fix this. It happened. She can't undo it. She can't heal you. She can only be present with you as you heal.

 

Healing is a choice... and it comes from within. And yeah, believe me, I get how hard it is. If you stay, you deal with the pain. If you leave... you deal with the pain. It's not fair. Infidelity never is. But the continuance of the angst is largely due to indecisiveness about the relationship. It's not until you've made that decision to be 'all in' or 'all out' that you can start leaving the past in the past.

 

I've found that the way the mind works after a betrayal is sort of like an illusion that time isn't quite linear; it's more like a big ball of tangled yarn, with threads touching each other that shouldn't be touching. One trigger, and memories from months or even years ago become as fresh as if they were happening right now. The trick to healing, at least from my vantage point, is making time LINEAR again. You do that by making one choice at a time and building onward from there. No one else makes your choices for you.... and you come to the concrete understanding that you can't make choices for anyone else.

 

Serenity comes from the inside. Happiness comes from the inside. Your wife could do all that you ask from her and more... and it wouldn't make you happy if you're still living in the past as if your injuries were still fresh. You have to find a way to untangle it from the present.

[turnera]

What if my personal recovery is dependent on the relationship recovering?

 

This is an oxymoron. Any personal recovery that is dependent on being with another person IS NOT RECOVERY. It's codependency. And ALL therapists will tell you that that is not happy.

 

Which is why we keep telling you that you have to stop focusing on her and start focusing on you. What makes YOU tick? And if all you can say is having her, then you have a lot of work to do in therapy, to dig down deep enough to peel away that 'I have to be loved' bs and find the real person.

 

I promise it will be worth it.

[katielee]

If your personal recovery is dependent on the reconciliation of this relationship, you have bigger problems than the relationship. This is co-dependency. Not healthy... realize it is NOT healthy and you need IC.

[Naively.Sensitive]

This is an oxymoron. Any personal recovery that is dependent on being with another person IS NOT RECOVERY. It's codependency. And ALL therapists will tell you that that is not happy.

 

Which is why we keep telling you that you have to stop focusing on her and start focusing on you. What makes YOU tick? And if all you can say is having her, then you have a lot of work to do in therapy, to dig down deep enough to peel away that 'I have to be loved' bs and find the real person.

 

I promise it will be worth it.

 

Yes, I thought about that deeply last night and I think you're right. I probably have a major codependency issue. I have to deal with that because its not healthy. I don't know if we can work on addressing the affair while I also individually work on my codependency issue or will the 2 interfere with each other?

[katielee]

Once you fix yourself you will have a much different reaction to your wife's infidelity.

[katielee]

Yes, I thought about that deeply last night and I think you're right. I probably have a major codependency issue. I have to deal with that because its not healthy. I don't know if we can work on addressing the affair while I also individually work on my codependency issue or will the 2 interfere with each other?

 

you need to fix yourself first. You HAVE to be healthy in order to be in any relationship. But with one in crisis, you won't be able to make healthy decisions if you're not healthy yourself.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Your wife CAN'T fix this. It happened. She can't undo it. She can't heal you. She can only be present with you as you heal.

 

Healing is a choice... and it comes from within. And yeah, believe me, I get how hard it is. If you stay, you deal with the pain. If you leave... you deal with the pain. It's not fair. Infidelity never is. But the continuance of the angst is largely due to indecisiveness about the relationship. It's not until you've made that decision to be 'all in' or 'all out' that you can start leaving the past in the past.

 

I've found that the way the mind works after a betrayal is sort of like an illusion that time isn't quite linear; it's more like a big ball of tangled yarn, with threads touching each other that shouldn't be touching. One trigger, and memories from months or even years ago become as fresh as if they were happening right now. The trick to healing, at least from my vantage point, is making time LINEAR again. You do that by making one choice at a time and building onward from there. No one else makes your choices for you.... and you come to the concrete understanding that you can't make choices for anyone else.

 

Serenity comes from the inside. Happiness comes from the inside. Your wife could do all that you ask from her and more... and it wouldn't make you happy if you're still living in the past as if your injuries were still fresh. You have to find a way to untangle it from the present.

 

This is helping and useful advice.

I will try to work on this myself, individually. I am obviously not healed and in terrible pain and I need to make a choice, but as you said, if I stay its terribly painful and if I leave, it will be terribly painful. Its just not f*cking fair, and I did NOT cause this train wreck.

[Naively.Sensitive]

If your personal recovery is dependent on the reconciliation of this relationship, you have bigger problems than the relationship. This is co-dependency. Not healthy... realize it is NOT healthy and you need IC.

 

I'm trying to think back to determine if I have always had this codependency from the beginning? In my 15 years of marriage.

Can a person be codependent on a "person" or on a certain "fantasy" of a relationship?

 

The reason I ask is this.... If its codependency on a person, then one can seek another close relationship, but if its codependency on a relationship itself, then seeking another relationship is just going to foster the problem even more.

 

Also, if a person did NOT have such a codependency from before, would this pain of an affair still have been so severe?

 

Is it possible the affair introduced this severe codependency in some way?

 

I mean, to a large degree I have NOW become dependent on getting some comfort from 1 or 2 close friends that I NEED to be able to talk to, just to get through the day and I seem to NEED to check into this forum, atleast once a day. Is that normal even for a person who was not codependent to begin with?

 

My gut feeling is that perhaps I was not codependent to begin with but the affair introduces so much extreme pain that it introduces a type of codependency.

 

I mean, isn't the "hysterical bonding" phase a manifestation of codependency of some type?

 

Is a certain amount of codependency normal and healthy? Or is all of it bad? I mean, when I'm angry and tell my wife to f*ck *ff, I'm basically NOT manifesting codependency or am I?

[MadJackBird]

NS - I think you are making progress which is good. Keep processing.

 

I don't actually think co-dependancy is real, but that's an argument discussion for another time.

 

Another thing that really helped me in my own personal journey is to realize that your identity is NOT defined by the adultery. Adultery does not define you. It is just something that happened to you, it sucks, but you need to realize you are more then just a victim of adultery.

 

You have the choice to make your identity whatever you want. By wallowing away in the pain of the adultery you are not choosing to define yourself in a positive way, but rather in the negative things that happened to you.

[katielee]

Also, if a person did NOT have such a codependency from before, would this pain of an affair still have been so severe?

 

 

I maintain that it would not. which means, we weren't healthy to begin with and had all our eggs in that basket. work to be done.

[Naively.Sensitive]

NS - I think you are making progress which is good. Keep processing.

 

I don't actually think co-dependancy is real, but that's an argument discussion for another time.

 

Another thing that really helped me in my own personal journey is to realize that your identity is NOT defined by the adultery. Adultery does not define you. It is just something that happened to you, it sucks, but you need to realize you are more then just a victim of adultery.

 

You have the choice to make your identity whatever you want. By wallowing away in the pain of the adultery you are not choosing to define yourself in a positive way, but rather in the negative things that happened to you.

 

Very very useful! I appreciate this help tremendously!

The posters here are way more wiser than what I initially perceived. I did not initially recognize that many folks here already have a lot of experience having already dealt with infidelity.

[BetrayedH]

I'm trying to think back to determine if I have always had this codependency from the beginning? In my 15 years of marriage.

Can a person be codependent on a "person" or on a certain "fantasy" of a relationship?

 

The reason I ask is this.... If its codependency on a person, then one can seek another close relationship, but if its codependency on a relationship itself, then seeking another relationship is just going to foster the problem even more.

 

Also, if a person did NOT have such a codependency from before, would this pain of an affair still have been so severe?

 

Is it possible the affair introduced this severe codependency in some way?

 

I mean, to a large degree I have NOW become dependent on getting some comfort from 1 or 2 close friends that I NEED to be able to talk to, just to get through the day and I seem to NEED to check into this forum, atleast once a day. Is that normal even for a person who was not codependent to begin with?

 

My gut feeling is that perhaps I was not codependent to begin with but the affair introduces so much extreme pain that it introduces a type of codependency.

 

I mean, isn't the "hysterical bonding" phase a manifestation of codependency of some type?

 

Is a certain amount of codependency normal and healthy? Or is all of it bad? I mean, when I'm angry and tell my wife to f*ck *ff, I'm basically NOT manifesting codependency or am I?

 

I "liked" this post because it is good introspection.

 

For what it's worth, I think there are two challenges for you on this theme.

 

One is that, like me, you probably had all of your eggs in this one basket (the marriage). While I've always had a decent amount of self-confidence, I had no other real investments in life. My marriage and career were it. And the career was mostly about providing for my family. This is a terribly vulnerable position to be in. I also think it's common. Some of us have had very romantic notions about love, marriage, and fidelity. And we project those values and beliefs onto others. If everything we care about in life is dependent upon someone else, we may end up with a serious problem on our hands. You're learning that lesson. There needs to be a bit less dependence and a bit more independence. Strive for a healthier balance.

 

But the other challenge that you've got is that, yes, the affair further enhances our dependence. Our ego is shot. Our self-worth is shot. We suffer great self-doubt. We don't trust our own judgment. We desperately want external validation. We're now extra dependent. And so we turn to the one person in life that is supposed to fill that role. And low and behold, they are the person that horribly betrayed us. You're damn right that it's effing unfair as hell.

 

And so we don't make the logical decision to disassociate ourselves from the betrayer. Instead, we cling to them for validation. We embrace hysterical bonding. It's emotionally soothing.

 

So, you're right that the original problem is compounded by the affair, probably tenfold.

 

So the trick is that you have to "find yourself." And you have to think with your brain instead of your emotions. You didn't cause this affair, so why should you be desperate for validation? Why should your ego take a hit? Why should you doubt your self worth? Why should you cling to the person that betrayed you?

 

You shouldn't. That's the key to the 180. You focus inward. You detach. You rebuild your own self-esteem. You reduce your dependency on others. You establish healthier boundaries that are respectful to YOU. And the last thing you do is desperately cling to a person that betrayed you.

 

What many find is that their wayward spouse find this independence to be attractive. And the real threat of losing such a person motivates them to make changes. And if they don't, then to hell with them. They don't deserve you.

 

Can you find a healthier relationship in the future? Absolutely. You'll be a wiser man after this. You'll likely lose a lot of the innocent relationship fantasy that you've bought into since your childhood. But that doesn't mean you can't find another healthy individual to build a mutually satisfying relationship with. But you should expect thay it will take time for you to shed this "need" for validation from another person. And you'll probably scree up from time to time. You'll bring some baggage to the next relationship. And so will she. I've found that my new relationship still has plenty of challenges; they're just different ones. But frankly, if they exclude the nightmare of continuing to deal to an unremorseful wayward, I'll take it (within limits).