Dealing with wife's affair.

January 12, 2016

Good grief!

You keep asking questions when you have been given over 500 answers on this thread alone! You keep asking questions but take very little action on the main problems.

Those that have answered you are women and men that have already lived through infidelity and have given you answer after answer. You think that your talk and asking questions is going to get you better. You either consciously or subconsciously ignore the advice that you do not like because they point to the heart of the problem you have. The heart of your problem right now is that you are so weak and fearful that your wife will leave you if you get tough that you are almost paralyzed. You are weak and your wife is weak and as long as you just talk and not act then nothing will be improved in your marriage or in your own life.

Your talk, talk, talk, reminds me of the cowboy saying that goes like this:
“You are all hat and no cattle”

I am going to tell you again that you can only work on getting yourself stronger as you are too weak to help your weak wife. Stop talking, get all kinds of help and start taking actions to get you stronger.
WILL YOU DO THAT?

After you get stronger you can help your wife if she will help herself and allow you to help. Right now you need to concentrate on yourself or you will wind up a miserable door mat and not good for anyone!

What is evident from what you and a lot of posters think is that the only "action" that is possible is that of filing for divorce.

Thats basically like saying that the only solution to differences between countries is war. That there is no place or possibility of "working through" reconciliation. That so many books, programs and counselors that treat infidelity or affair recovery are basically useless and should be discounted.

Thats also like saying that both of us (my wife as well as me) know how to deal with infidelity because its so common an occurence (like brushing our teeth) that we already know what we are doing and have all the experience in the world that qualifies us to know.

I came to this forum to get expert advice, but its hard to qualify what is "expert" and what is not.

The "expert" label could only be applied either to someone who has dealt (personally or professionally) with many many cases of infidelity (not just 1 or 2 cases of their "own" that people may encounter in their lifetimes)

Wayward spouses are not all the same, betrayed spouses are not all the same, circumstances of the affair are not all the same,.... There are tons of variables. What solutions may work for one person may not work for another. You seem to imply that 1 solution (divorce) must work for every situation and every affair, whereas that is only 1 possible solution, and it may not even be a solution to begin with, because maybe both my wife and me could "possibly" turn out to be happier people and more gratifying to each other IF we give other solutions a chance, rather than possibly be less happier with the "only" solution that comes to most people's mind: Divorce.

We have taken "action" by booking and agreeing to go to Marriage Counseling. We have taken "action" by trying to heal ourselves individually through spiritual pursuits and understanding. Talk and discussion is a very small aspect of the "action" that is seen here. There is a lot we are trying in the background, some of which is working and some of which is not.

January 12, 2016

The wisest thing you have posted in my opinion since page #1. Now deal with the transparency issue, as long as she hides things from you she is choosing to stay in infidelity and chooses the other man over you. Hiding her phone, withholding her passwords is still choosing to protect O/M over your pain. For this alone she should be told to go f*ck herself and find another place to live. She is all in or she isn't, she can't be both.

Hopefully the marriage counselor agrees with my assertion that it is what is NEEDED. If the marriage counselor does not agree or assert this to my wife too, then it would tell me that I found the wrong marriage counselor.

January 13, 2016

NS - don't lose sight of the fact that most everyone is giving you the same advice.... we're not experts. But we've seen a lot! pay attention to those members who have posted a lot and been here a long time...

affairs usually have a LOT in common, so do unremorseful WS.

January 13, 2016

he did the "pick me" dance. One that you're doing right now. It pretty much destroyed him, along with my affair, acting like he had to "nice" me back into the relationship. It so damaged his self-esteem that he had his own affairs, mainly because things weren't even and there was a power imbalance between us.

the thing is - healthy people shouldn't have to do this. If my affair had nothing to do with him and everything to do with how broken I was, then he should have left me to do my own work to heal and if I didn't, he should have left. He should have done a 180, worked on himself and detached.
But he tried so hard to control the situation that he ended up betraying himself.
It. Doesn't. Work.

And when he had his affairs I did the same thing. I should have 180'd him.
After the second affair I should have filed for divorce and let him figure out how to get me back. I should have just let him figure out his own stuff and suffer the consequences of poor choices. We were both co-dependent and way too enmeshed in each other/could't live without the other. Very Very unhealthy.

Your story seems similar to my wife and mine.

Some similarities are these:

1) My wife was also broken (in her own words), was unhappy and vulnerable. Does this seem like it was your condition too, before your affair? She has been taking her own time to individually heal, by reading, introspection, going to a church to seek spiritual answers, repenting (inwardly she claims), changing (she seems to have become more assertive about certain things that she "needs", like some basic needs, nothing fancy), by feeling less "afraid" of me (as she claims she was), etc.

2) I have been trying hard to control the situation and have been depending on the relationship to heal to heal myself. I have not exactly been doing the 180.

3) It seems like my wife and me are also co-dependent on each other.

Some differences are these:

1) I have not yet done the "pick me" dance, although you could say that I have been fighting hard to save the marriage. I have not tried to be "nice" in any "fake" ways (apart from the hysterical bonding that happened in the first 3 months). At the point at which he was doing a "pick me" dance, was this recommended by some counseling or something to him? Was it just his own reaction?

2) I have not had an affair of my own (and don't intend to)

I had more questions for you:

1) What part of his reactions caused you to really break your attraction towards him? Was it the "pick me" part? If so, why would that cause you to not be attracted towards him? I mean, thats what you would have liked before you got married to him, right? What changes with the same "pick me" behavior after an affair? Or was it his own affair that broke your attraction towards him? (Which I can completely understand and it would seem logical)

2) Did you really "recover" from the work you were doing to heal yourself? How did you change as a result of that work you put in? Did you become more appreciative of him? Less demanding of your own "wants" (possibly wants that may have caused you to stray to begin with?). More assertive of your "needs" from him, taking more responsibility for having them met by him?

3) If he would have filed for divorce (can you be as truthful about this hypothetical situation?), would it have caused you to truly "clean yourself up" and pursued him to prevent the divorce? Did you love him enough to not give up on him, (and the marriage)? If you would have pursued him, would that not have been (mis)construed as a sign of YOUR weakness and co-dependency back on him?

January 13, 2016

NS - don't lose sight of the fact that most everyone is giving you the same advice.... we're not experts. But we've seen a lot! pay attention to those members who have posted a lot and been here a long time...
affairs usually have a LOT in common, so do unremorseful WS.

Yes, I am noticing that, not ignoring it. Maybe it REALLY is the right thing for me to do. A question I have is this.... Suppose I'm expecting the marriage counselor to also give me direct advice like I'm getting on "what to do".... If she also wants to give me advice about doing the "180", how would she do that in a joint session with my wife? She is obviously not going to tell me (in front of my wife), to ignore my wife, just focus on myself and to not pursue my wife. Would she tell me this in a private session instead? Should I go to an IC (individual counselor) to get such advice that only applies to me (needing privacy from my wife)?

January 13, 2016

Yes, I am noticing that, not ignoring it. Maybe it REALLY is the right thing for me to do. A question I have is this.... Suppose I'm expecting the marriage counselor to also give me direct advice like I'm getting on "what to do".... If she also wants to give me advice about doing the "180", how would she do that in a joint session with my wife? She is obviously not going to tell me (in front of my wife), to ignore my wife, just focus on myself and to not pursue my wife. Would she tell me this in a private session instead? Should I go to an IC (individual counselor) to get such advice that only applies to me (needing privacy from my wife)?

in my opinion you need an IC regardless if you go to a joint MC or not. I also believe that your MC is a waste of time, efforts, and money. you are not reay for it yet.

January 13, 2016

Havent seen you around for a bit. Everything ok bro?

January 13, 2016

The 180 isn't about saving your marriage; it's about saving yourself. Sometimes it does help reawaken the passion in the other partner, but that's not what it's about AT ALL.

The 180 isn't a covert manipulation tactic designed to get your wife back. If that's your goal, you won't truly be able to do it anyway. It's more about salvaging the wreckage of what little self-respect you have left and building a better life for yourself and your children. Quit trying to turn everything into a way to get your wife to love you again. It's done, man. It's over with her and the sooner you recognize that, the sooner you can start rebuilding YOUR life.

Go ahead and keep spinning the wheels. We'll still be here shaking our heads.

January 13, 2016

in my opinion you need an IC regardless if you go to a joint MC or not. I also believe that your MC is a waste of time, efforts, and money. you are not reay for it yet.

What aspect of me or my behavior makes me not ready for MC yet?

January 13, 2016

The 180 isn't about saving your marriage; it's about saving yourself. Sometimes it does help reawaken the passion in the other partner, but that's not what it's about AT ALL.

The 180 isn't a covert manipulation tactic designed to get your wife back. If that's your goal, you won't truly be able to do it anyway. It's more about salvaging the wreckage of what little self-respect you have left and building a better life for yourself and your children. Quit trying to turn everything into a way to get your wife to love you again. It's done, man. It's over with her and the sooner you recognize that, the sooner you can start rebuilding YOUR life.

Go ahead and keep spinning the wheels. We'll still be here shaking our heads.

Ok, I understand the 180 better now.

Let me ask the question a different way.... Should I just leave the marriage and relationship alone until I fully recover?

Maybe a separation (before deciding on a divorce) may help me better in my own individual recovery? Is that a good idea? To just move out to an apartment?

Another question: Would filing for divorce possibly HURT chances of reconciliation or of my wife coming back (if she wants to)?

e.g. My wife may really think it is over and lose hope (and give up "trying" to get me back). This is a reaction that may not be conducive.

If on the other hand, she gets angry or says scr*w it, then I WOULD want to go ahead with the divorce.

I don't want to use divorce as any kind of a manipulative tactic, but I DO want to know how far she would go to fight for me, or to fight back for the marriage. How can I know this piece of information?

January 13, 2016

Suppose I'm expecting the marriage counselor to also give me direct advice like I'm getting on "what to do".... If she also wants to give me advice about doing the "180", how would she do that in a joint session with my wife? She is obviously not going to tell me (in front of my wife), to ignore my wife, just focus on myself and to not pursue my wife. Would she tell me this in a private session instead? Should I go to an IC (individual counselor) to get such advice that only applies to me (needing privacy from my wife)?

I might be wrong, but I think you have the wrong expectations of MC. I spent 3+ years in IC and MC. My WW and I went to 4 different counselors over the years for MC. I went to one for IC. My wife went to two for IC. That is a total of 7 counselors; never did anyone one of them tell us/me/her what to do. Counselors are there to facilitate communication, not to give orders. They are there to guide the patient/client in self-reflection.

It is my opinion that if you are looking for a silver bullet in MC, then you will be disappointed. Sounds like you expect arbitration. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO FIX IT FOR YOU. They will only assist in guiding YOU to fix yourself (individually or as a couple).

You two are so messed up that both of you need your own IC outside of MC. Don't use the same ones; use 3 different counselors.

As I already stated, none of it (MC) really matters if your wife is not remorseful and not willing to do the work.

January 13, 2016

You're like talking to a brick wall, I swear.

Will filing for a divorce make her give up? DUDE, WHO FREAKING CARES??? Let's say in some magical fantasy land she falls back in love with you. Seriously, what would you be left with? Some dirty cheater that you'll spend the rest of your life looking over you shoulder or waiting to catch a sexually transmitted disease from. You need to take of those rose tinted glasses and see her for what she really is. She's bad for you and always will be. She always was but for some reason you don't catch on very fast. A tiger simply does not change his stripes. Sure, some people make mistakes, but this isn't a mistake. She's has purposely robbed you of a sane life and watched you completely fall apart and laughed about. Did she try to rescue you? No, she MOVED OUT of the bedroom.

Your tears taste like ice cream to this woman.

You need to see that there is no outcome that ends well as long as she's involved. She will rob you of every ounce of your dignity for as long as you live. She will always put her needs before yours. There isn't an altruistic bone in her whole body. Don't want her, want your life back. Want your self-respect. Want to be a good role model for your children.

And just so you know, until you get your co-dependency under control, you'll always be cheated on by women. No woman on earth can respect a man in your position. They'll take your check and life you provide, but they'll be sleeping with some alphaesque guy. Hate it or love it, but that's the way life is.

Something tells me that you have some bigger issues with comprehension. Have you been tested for any sort of learning difficulties? It seems like nothing really "sinks in" for you. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't some other underlying mental issues that you should have treated. Normally functioning people do not have this much trouble accepting basic concepts. I really advise you to get a proper diagnosis.

Edited January 13, 2016 by HereNorThere

January 13, 2016

I might be wrong, but I think you have the wrong expectations of MC. I spent 3+ years in IC and MC. My WW and I went to 4 different counselors over the years for MC. I went to one for IC. My wife went to two for IC. That is a total of 7 counselors; never did anyone one of them tell us/me/her what to do. Counselors are there to facilitate communication, not to give orders. They are there to guide the patient/client in self-reflection.

It is my opinion that if you are looking for a silver bullet in MC, then you will be disappointed. Sounds like you expect arbitration. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO FIX IT FOR YOU. They will only assist in guiding YOU to fix yourself (individually or as a couple).

You two are so messed up that both of you need your own IC outside of MC. Don't use the same ones; use 3 different counselors.

As I already stated, none of it (MC) really matters if your wife is not remorseful and not willing to do the work.

Yes, I have heard the many people don't get satisfactory MC.

I may take a couple of sessions (which are fully paid by the EAP program of the company I work for), just so that I can get my wife to answer some direct questions about the affair (about how she felt during it and if she really "felt" like she was in love with the affair partner). This is an area she is refusing to talk about, because she is saying that she already addressed it. She has agreed to talk in front of a MC, expecting that the MC will "translate" her answers to let me know how "misguided" her thoughts and feelings were.

I will also book an IC for myself and encourage her to do the same for herself, even though we have already been to some IC sessions.

January 13, 2016

I just read your first thread, and the last thing you wrote. I think u need space man.

Like real space, stay with a friend or take a vacation. Decide if u can fully forgive this woman and move on with her. its very important because soon you'll see its been a year and your still in this mess, and then a year becomes 2, and so on.

Time to ballz up. what you really want. if i were you i would not even be entertaining your wife, she cheated, thats all. she couldve said no, reported her boss, told you bout it. but nope, and im gonna tell you something to make u ache, because u need this anger, its gonna help u.

She cheated on you, her husband. And your still here, tryna make things work. u think she really deserves that. Nobody feels bad and says hell, imma sleep with him because he keeps coming onto me.

A good wife says fu** you. i am reporting you, and i am telling my husband. she doesnt give in. anyway man. good luck with all this.

dont get caught up in the attachment, or the comfort zone. see tings as they are and make a decision that u will be happy with,..

January 13, 2016

Ok, I understand the 180 better now.
Let me ask the question a different way.... Should I just leave the marriage and relationship alone until I fully recover?
Maybe a separation (before deciding on a divorce) may help me better in my own individual recovery? Is that a good idea? To just move out to an apartment?
Another question: Would filing for divorce possibly HURT chances of reconciliation or of my wife coming back (if she wants to)?
e.g. My wife may really think it is over and lose hope (and give up "trying" to get me back). This is a reaction that may not be conducive.
If on the other hand, she gets angry or says scr*w it, then I WOULD want to go ahead with the divorce.
I don't want to use divorce as any kind of a manipulative tactic, but I DO want to know how far she would go to fight for me, or to fight back for the marriage. How can I know this piece of information?

A separation might make your wife wake up and smell the coffee.

Get your own place to live. Tell your wife: "You are not making an effort to reconcile. You refuse to provide passwords or sleep beside me. You also will not take responsibility for cheating by blaming the other man. Those actions are unacceptable and disrespectful. I'm not going to put up with that kind of nonsense. I love you but I love myself more. Unless you take the aforementioned steps to right your wrongs we will be getting a divorce.

The ball is in your court." Leave without so much as a look back at her.

After you leave, do not call your wife unless it pertains to the kids. Do not try to "woo" her or anything like that. Be strong and focus on yourself. I know this will be hard for you because you seem like a Nice Guy who allows people to walk all over you. Being a doormat isn't getting you anywhere. Now it is time to play hardball.

January 13, 2016

Most gave me the same advise. The problem is... When some members were telling me to draw the hardline, demand action by putting the divorce papers there (a tactic that I logically 'get' in a lot of situations) many others were saying such exaggerated demeaning things about my H (Just dump the cruel psycho who never cared about you. Not true!) that any logic was lost on me...my instinctive feeling was to be defensive of my H & marriage.

I know some members see it as a needed slap of reality but it doesn't sound like that when you're a broken bs. It takes time & work to reach a decision.

Anyway....

What does she say when you tell her you need 'transparency', no passwords, secrets etc?

Have you asked her back to the marital bed? What did she say?

Got to go sorry

January 13, 2016

I just read your first thread, and the last thing you wrote. I think u need space man.

Like real space, stay with a friend or take a vacation. Decide if u can fully forgive this woman and move on with her. its very important because soon you'll see its been a year and your still in this mess, and then a year becomes 2, and so on.

Time to ballz up. what you really want. if i were you i would not even be entertaining your wife, she cheated, thats all. she couldve said no, reported her boss, told you bout it. but nope, and im gonna tell you something to make u ache, because u need this anger, its gonna help u.

She cheated on you, her husband. And your still here, tryna make things work. u think she really deserves that. Nobody feels bad and says hell, imma sleep with him because he keeps coming onto me.

A good wife says fu** you. i am reporting you, and i am telling my husband. she doesnt give in. anyway man. good luck with all this.

dont get caught up in the attachment, or the comfort zone. see tings as they are and make a decision that u will be happy with,..

This. I have had men come on to me more than once. I always declined so angrily that they never propositioned me again. I know cheating would not fly in my marriage so I don't even think about doing that. There is no way my husband would be trying to make our marriage work if I stepped out on him. He would be out of the house and at a lawyer's office immediately.

January 13, 2016

This. I have had men come on to me more than once. I always declined so angrily that they never propositioned me again. I know cheating would not fly in my marriage so I don't even think about doing that. There is no way my husband would be trying to make our marriage work if I stepped out on him. He would be out of the house and at a lawyer's office immediately.

These things always happen. happened to me. my ex gf was talking to a guy when she was working, they became good friends, now he became more important than me and that was it.

This is when you know you found someone ehos is true to you, and would stick with you. So i havent found the right one. neither has the op.

January 13, 2016

NS......40 pages of advice.....hundreds of replies....and you are still asking the same questions you started with.

when i had my affair....I confessed to my husband.....and i said to him...I understand if you need to leave and divorce me and i will ask for nothing.

What did your wife say?

I immediately became transparent...I gave him my schedule....my passwords....EVERYTHING.

What did your wife do?

I continued to sleep in our bed and have sex with my husband.

What has your wife done?

I answered all questions my husband asked me.

What questions has your wife answered?

Now...let's switch this to my husband

When i confessed my affair...he asked me to stay.

He went to MY MOTHER and confided in her.

I was very glad he did that...he needed someone....and i respect my mom.

He was kind to me...and caring... and loving. He did not treat me cruelly....he did not abuse me...he was not controlling.

He cried....he was very very depressed...and took medication for depression....and we went to a psychologist.....who was of no help whatsoever.

I am very afraid that you are expecting the MC to be a miracle worker....the MC cannot make your wife do what is necessary to help you. Do you understand that? all they can do is offer advice and solutions....but YOU and YOUR WIFE have to be willing to implement the suggestions.

You have proven to many of us here that you are not willing to take the necessary steps required for healing...both for you and for your wife.

You are so focused on what you believe will make everything ok...you are so intent on keeping your family together...that you are ignoring all the things that are so obvious to those of us reading what you write.

STEP NUMBER ONE to healing reconciliation remorse and forgiveness....TRANSPARENCY

Has your wife become transparent? Has she shared with you all of her passwords...who she is talking to on the phone....where she is going and who she is going with? EVERYDAY?

IF your wife cannot give you step one...you cannot proceed to step two.

Do you understand that? Do you understand that the MC cannot make her become transparent?

She has to become transparent BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO......

I am not telling you to divorce your wife....I am telling you...that as a FWW....I understand her mindset....but I do NOT understand her unwillingness to become transparent. To me it says....she is not READY for reconciliation. What she is ready for....is to remain in your home....and live separate lives.

My question for you then is.....is this acceptable to you? Are you ok with living in the same home....separately?

If you are NOT...then take a stand...and tell her....this situation is not acceptable...and then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

IF it is acceptable...then you have to be ok with things exactly the way they are now...because nothing is going to change.

You seem intent on giving her more time....fine.

Then you have to accept things exactly the way they are.....and in 6 months...you can reevaluate again...and decide if you have had enough.

Your wife is not going to change....because you are not requiring her to change. You are accepting the situation just as it is....living separate lives in the same house.

January 13, 2016

Yes, I have heard the many people don't get satisfactory MC.
I may take a couple of sessions (which are fully paid by the EAP program of the company I work for), just so that I can get my wife to answer some direct questions about the affair (about how she felt during it and if she really "felt" like she was in love with the affair partner). This is an area she is refusing to talk about, because she is saying that she already addressed it. She has agreed to talk in front of a MC, expecting that the MC will "translate" her answers to let me know how "misguided" her thoughts and feelings were.

I will also book an IC for myself and encourage her to do the same for herself, even though we have already been to some IC sessions.

I never said the MCs were non-satisfactory, did I? I was very satisfied with all of them. We changed do to multiple moves, and certain counselors moving on to other opportunities. The point I was trying to make is that the MC will not be a referee or a translator for your dysfunctional marriage. Nor will they prescribe a "solution" for you to take.

You really don't get it? The MC will not make your wife answer your direct questions! Why do you think a MC will make your cheating wife answer questions that she won't answer for you?

Reconciliation is HARD! It takes YEARS! And that is with a remorseful wife that is willing to do everything and anything for the BS. After 8 months your wife has done squat. Nada. You can't Reconcile on your own. I don't understand how you can not see that. 8 months out - do you even know why your wife cheated on you? If "she wasn't happy with the marriage" is the answer, then how do you know she won't cheat the next time she is "not happy"? Loosening up the purse strings is not the answer. Until your wife is remorseful and willing to step up to the plate, all of this (MC) is for naught.

Contrast: Even today my wife entered into a conversation with me about our marriage and her affair. After all of these years she is still transparent with me. She is still willing to talk about things, even if they are uncomfortable. She puts my feelings first. Your wife doesn't do any of these things, yet you are trying to wait it out. You can't wait out respect or love.

Lastly, my wife has a real fear of loss. She knows that I will walk if certain conditions are not met. She knows I will not put up with any crap.

She knows that I am willing to divorce her and move on with my life, and be with someone else. After D-Day I owed her nothing short of divorce. She was (and still is) grateful for the opportunity for reconciliation. I did ask her the same questions over and over again. Guess what? She answered the the same questions over and over again. Do you know why? She was (and still is) fully invested in the reconciliation process. If I ask a question; she answers it. If I ask for a password, she gives it to me. If I told her I needed to leave for a few days to clear my head, she lets me leave town for a few days.

I give up on this thread! After 40+ pages you are still stubborn and blind to the situation. It is not that complex: "I expect xyz from you, or I walk". Either you get xyz or you don't. It really is that simple.

January 13, 2016

STEP NUMBER ONE to healing reconciliation remorse and forgiveness....TRANSPARENCY

Has your wife become transparent? Has she shared with you all of her passwords...who she is talking to on the phone....where she is going and who she is going with? EVERYDAY?

IF your wife cannot give you step one...you cannot proceed to step two.

Do you understand that? Do you understand that the MC cannot make her become transparent?
She has to become transparent BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO......

^^^ 40+ pages of advise all boils down to this ^^^

Very succinct

January 13, 2016

How do I REALLY know which of the above are going to rebuild a PASSIONATE relationship to both our satisfactions all over again?

Aren't both just as risky or at least risky to some degree?

OMG. How many ways do we have to say this before you will hear us?

YOU NEVER HAD YOUR WIFE. From the first day you MET her, you never had her. Every single day you were with her, you were at risk of losing her.

But now, ESPECIALLY now, with her seeing you begging and scraping just to keep her in your home, you are looking more disgusting and pathetic with each and every day.

And, once again, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO LOSE THE MARRIAGE, before you can have any hope of saving it.

If every move you make is IN ORDER TO LEAST RISK LOSING HER, she knows it. She smells it on you. And it disgusts her more and more.

If you aren't willing to say 'I'm not happy,' then in a year from now she'll be so disgusted with you that she'll be bringing some new guy home and expecting you to just sit on the couch while they go enjoy themselves. That's how weak you look by scrambling for the 'safest, least riskiest' way to convince her to love you.

And here's one important fact you aren't looking at: YOU ARE TRYING TO CONTROL HER. You're trying to control her into staying, into not cheating, into wanting you. But you can't control another human. Not unless you possess mind control. The ONLY way you can even come close to 'making' her do/be what you want is by fixing YOU, by making YOU attractive, interesting, mysterious, strong, SURE OF YOURSELF. Work on THAT, not on HER. Become that man for YOU, because you NEED to be that man to be happy in life, whether she's in it or not. And once you get off this stupid track you're on and head out on THAT highway, she'll notice.

January 13, 2016

OMG. How many ways do we have to say this before you will hear us?

YOU NEVER HAD YOUR WIFE. From the first day you MET her, you never had her. Every single day you were with her, you were at risk of losing her.

But now, ESPECIALLY now, with her seeing you begging and scraping just to keep her in your home, you are looking more disgusting and pathetic with each and every day.

And, once again, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO LOSE THE MARRIAGE, before you can have any hope of saving it.

If every move you make is IN ORDER TO LEAST RISK LOSING HER, she knows it. She smells it on you. And it disgusts her more and more.

If you aren't willing to say 'I'm not happy,' then in a year from now she'll be so disgusted with you that she'll be bringing some new guy home and expecting you to just sit on the couch while they go enjoy themselves. That's how weak you look by scrambling for the 'safest, least riskiest' way to convince her to love you.

And here's one important fact you aren't looking at: YOU ARE TRYING TO CONTROL HER. You're trying to control her into staying, into not cheating, into wanting you. But you can't control another human. Not unless you possess mind control. The ONLY way you can even come close to 'making' her do/be what you want is by fixing YOU, by making YOU attractive, interesting, mysterious, strong, SURE OF YOURSELF. Work on THAT, not on HER. Become that man for YOU, because you NEED to be that man to be happy in life, whether she's in it or not. And once you get off this stupid track you're on and head out on THAT highway, she'll notice.

Maybe I do have my head stuck in the sand. Maybe there is nothing left and I should just file for divorce. I will be firm about what I want from an ideal wife. Because my wife does not match it, I will work on a plan for divorce and separation. If she somehow, magically becomes the woman I really want and need, then so be it, else there are many many women in the world who would be a good match and worthy of me.

I'm certainly not weak, but have just been immensely patient.

January 13, 2016

Start the therapy by stating clearly that your wife brought her OMM into your home and had sex with him (while your kids were home).

That is a different category of cheating. The therapist needs to know this detail first off. It shows her level of disrespect and it reveals her angry side.

Next up tell the counselor how your wife has created distance by moving to the other bedroom the past 5-6 months and is hiding passwords from you.

That ought to be enough to get the ball rolling. Counselors like evidence - you've got plenty. Give it a go.

Somehow, even the marriage counseling seems like a wasted exercise to me. If my wife wasn't willing to take responsibility for her actions and is still confused about her feelings for me, then I will leave her where she is and just move on, because I do have my own life to live and I don't want to waste it on her. I will just go to the counselor for 1 session and relate what I'm looking for in a good wife and the fact that my wife does not match what I was looking for and it took 15 years for her to show me her true colors. I will make it clear that I'm planning to move on and not wait for dreams to come true, but rather, go chasing my own dreams for myself. Nothing happens for yourself until you do something for yourself. I need to flush down this fantasy that I always had about a marriage being made in heaven and "a chosen one" being the right one. People can make mistakes when they get married. People can also change over time and people can also correct their mistakes by getting divorced. I need to learn that marriages are not "sacred" in any particular way. They are just man-made processes to organize a life and a family.

January 13, 2016

Somehow, even the marriage counseling seems like a wasted exercise to me. If my wife wasn't willing to take responsibility for her actions and is still confused about her feelings for me, then I will leave her where she is and just move on, because I do have my own life to live and I don't want to waste it on her. I will just go to the counselor for 1 session and relate what I'm looking for in a good wife and the fact that my wife does not match what I was looking for and it took 15 years for her to show me her true colors. I will make it clear that I'm planning to move on and not wait for dreams to come true, but rather, go chasing my own dreams for myself. Nothing happens for yourself until you do something for yourself. I need to flush down this fantasy that I always had about a marriage being made in heaven and "a chosen one" being the right one. People can make mistakes when they get married. People can also change over time and people can also correct their mistakes by getting divorced. I need to learn that marriages are not "sacred" in any particular way. They are just man-made processes to organize a life and a family.

For some reason, even if your declaration is something practical, it made me sad that there are people like you who believes on love and trust have been converted into something less. I am sorry for what happened to you.

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Dealing with wife's affair.

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