Dealing with wife's affair.

January 11, 2016

She did not go without getting her needs met. She enlisted another man to do that with her instead of her husband. Stop making excuses for her.She cheated because she agreed to cheat. She's not repairing your marriage and that tells you everything she's never going to say. Accept it. Or divorce her if you don't like it this way. She's not taking action to change a thing. The action is yours; not hers.

January 11, 2016

Your wife hasn't offered you the passwords to everything? She actually said she's not giving you them after changing them? She's not trying to help heal your marriage she's still hiding and covering things up. This doesn't look good for you and you better start taking a firm stand by taking charge. She could easily still be cheating and that's why she likes being in the other room. It's easier to hide her communications from you. Why haven't you checked? What are you waiting for?

Hmm? I'm not the one who is dealing with this I'm replying to the OP.

January 11, 2016

Hmm? I'm not the one who is dealing with this I'm replying to the OP.

It wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the OP.

Edited January 11, 2016 by beach

January 11, 2016

She did not go without getting her needs met. She enlisted another man to do that with her instead of her husband. Stop making excuses for her.She cheated because she agreed to cheat. She's not repairing your marriage and that tells you everything she's never going to say. Accept it. Or divorce her if you don't like it this way. She's not taking action to change a thing. The action is yours; not hers.

I will be making an appointment tomorrow. It seems like the next available appointment may be atleast 2 weeks out. She has agreed to attend, so I don't think that is going to be a problem.

However, one thing that "may" be a problem may be her unwillingness to talk about how she felt about her affair partner during the affair and the excitement and things of that nature. This morning, when we talked a little about it (she did not want to go there), she told me that it was very painful for her to think about those times again (because it was a very traumatic event for her), and she was also concerned about hurting me by talking about that time and her feelings.
I told her that in order for me to heal, she should be ready to talk about those things (even if with a counselor present), and that it may take multiple sessions for her to tell me the truth. She told me that she has already told me everything (long ago) and that I did not seem to "accept" what she told me (mostly the "victim" attitude of hers).

Is it reasonable for me to expect her to cooperate to talk about the affair for atleast as long as it takes me to be resolved with whatever she says?
I understand that it must be painful for her, but its also painful for me to "not be resolved". Can I depend on the marriage counselor to get her to talk as much as is needed for me to be "resolved"?

What might it take for me to be "resolved" with my questions? How long may it take (how many sessions) to get to that point?

How do I show her that the purpose of this is not to punish her or for the therapist to tear her apart? What can I (or the therapist) say or do to assure her of the intentions?

I have not verified that she isn't texting or emailing any strange numbers or people, because she has changed all her passwords for her devices and email addresses. How do I convince her that this is going to be even harder for me to deal with and that she needs to volunteer access to her devices? Can I take the MC help to achieve this? How? Should I simply put forth my requests of everything that I need to happen, for a full recovery? Or should I leave that decision to the MC of what I need?

Since she won't give you access to everything she's hiding things. Since she's not earning your trust she isn't worthy of trusting. I don't see what you have to begin the healing process when she's not being forthcoming.

January 11, 2016

No offense, but the prevailing theme throughout this thread is that YOU can't control YOUR emotions. We know you're going through hell, but your emotions are yours to own and control.

January 11, 2016

OP, I don't see how we can help you if you choose to live in denial.

Your wife does not care about earning your trust. She also will not discuss her cheating.

What other signs do you need that there is nothing to salvage here?

Look, I know you don't want to divorce your wife and break up your family.

It isn't an easy choice to make at all. I just can't understand why you are clinging to the vestiges of a marriage that your wife has no interest in repairing. One spouse cannot do all of the work. Don't waste money and time on marriage counseling if your wife won't even agree to disclose the information you are asking for.

January 11, 2016

That is a good way to deal with relationship problems. To a large degree, what you described about who you used to be earlier, is how my wife was too. She invested too much of her own happiness into what made me happy. What made me happy was things like saving money (because it would mean a possible early retirement for myself as well as my wife), living with basic needs met, possibly frugally and looking for "value" in every dollar spent. That was just my personality. However, my wife had some different outlooks in life. Not radically different though. She does not overspend. It all could have been worked out, however, she handled things in the wrong way. She ignored her needs, thinking that her happiness would be achieved only in making others happy. She was also overindulgent in trying to solve all her abusive brother's problems. This used to make me mad. She would spend time preparing a resumes for a 32 year old high school dropout man (her brother), tolerating his dissatisfaction towards her for not "helping him build his life", knowing very well that you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make the horse drink the water.

She may have manifested the other extreme opposite behavior when she had the affair. Rebel, a sense of freedom and self indulgence are phrases that come to mind.

In all cases, I never was the one who asked her to curb ALL her own desires in the relationship. Infact, I would have even much rather liked it if she were more assertive (sexually and emotionally) about her own needs. Even during normal conversations and during daily living, for something as simple as "what would you like to eat when we go out for dinner today", she would not state her preferences until I literally asked her several times. Its also true that more often than not I used to use restaurant coupons to try to economically feed a family of 4. If she would have told me that her needs are not being met and she would rather rebel than subdue to my own choices (or find a better way to deal with it than to just yell at me or fight with me), she would probably have not drowned in her emotional whirlpool.
Even though she has made several impactful changes to her own attitude of being responsible for her own needs for "emotional happiness", there are many parts of me that believe that part of her psyche still rests on the attitude that happiness entails satisfying ALL of her emotional needs, and sometimes she fails to carefully weigh the costs of satisfying these emotional needs. Maybe the pendulum has swayed too far in the other direction and I can certainly be a little more patient in waiting for it to return to balance, in its centered position.
One manifestation of this imbalance is in the fact that she left me all alone, for the last 5 months, to deal with the intense emotional pain of her very own acts of the affair. Again, she was so focused on her own emotional state that she could barely see past those.
Psychologically, there is proven research that concludes that if we foster and continue to believe in a particular emotional pattern, that pattern grows bigger. e.g. if we continue to indulge in something, it becomes an even bigger pattern in our life and repeats its manifestation. I fear that her fostering "emotional comfort" at all times may only result in her wanting to be "emotionally comfortable at all costs", which is exactly what her affair was a manifestation of.

All classic blameshifting, which you are doing for her.

Gosh, if only you had helped with the dishes a little more, then she wouldn't have felt the need for another man's dick in her vagina.

Stop all this talk about her "needs." They aren't needs; they're wants. Needs are things like food, water, and shelter. She didn't get everything she wanted. Boo hoo. Adults realize that this happens, especially when you have children. What the hell does an affair do to solve any of this?

You are trying to rationalize behavior that wasn't rational.

Listen, you could have done EVERYTHING right and she may still very well have had an affair. For some people, nothing is enough. They just want more affection, attention, and validation and they'll take it wherever they can get it. It has nothing to do with you or the marriage. It has everything to do with her being a broken person and, more importantly, taking no accountability for fixing herself.

January 11, 2016

The weekend was partly busy and partly too emotionally taxing for me to post. On Saturday (yesterday) we spent some time together by mutual consent, to do family groceries together. Then, we spent about 2 hours in our bedroom, just laying down on the pillow, watching funny animal videos and trying to create a lighter mood. I enjoyed some of that, but after a while it felt "fake" to me because my own painful emotional feelings overpowered what one might consider a "normal" afternoon spent together by a couple in which infidelity had not occurred.
Later, on Saturday night we watched a family movie together at home. She sat next to me and just held my hand for a while.

On Thursday last week (I think), we had agreed to watch a movie together while the kids slept. She wanted to cuddle next to me and I allowed myself to open up to her. We cuddled for a while and watched the movie. It was a positive experience, but probably felt more positive than it normally would have, simply because we have been emotionally and physically disconnected for the past 6 months, so this felt more "welcome" than normal. However, at the end of watching the movie, my emotional pain and hurt again took over and this recent positive experience seemed to "disappear" in comparison to the obvious negative experience.

This is one crucial part to my psychological condition. The negativity of the affair has overpowered (and continued to overpower) all "tip-toe" positive experiences. I intend to find out how to overcome this problem.
I certainly cannot "talk myself" into believing that an evening spent watching a movie while cuddling is positively superior to the negative experience of being the victim of my wife's affair.
In my mind, I see only 2 solutions to this problem:
1) Add so much positivity that it dilutes the negativity (Hence, my initial motivation to make those home made sex videos with my wife's enthusiastic participation)
2) Look outside of my wife for the counterbalanced positivity. Note that I have already tried this and fallen flat on my face. e.g. spending time doing things I like to do, e.g. DIY projects, biking, video games, some porn and masterbation, etc. The reason this has not worked is because, psychologically I know that these activities intentionally force myself to disregard the passionate relationship I expect to have with my wife.

I found the only counselor available within the EAP scheme offered by the company benefits. I booked an appointment with her for Thursday next week.

These efforts are not working because they are classic rugsweeping. You are trying to sweep an elephant under the rug. The elephant is quite obviously still there. And you're sitting here asking how you can forget about the elephant.

It's ridiculous. Rug sweeping doesn't work.

January 12, 2016

These efforts are not working because they are classic rugsweeping. You are trying to sweep an elephant under the rug. The elephant is quite obviously still there. And you're sitting here asking how you can forget about the elephant.

It's ridiculous. Rug sweeping doesn't work.

I think the fundamental problem I face in my mind and emotions is this:

The pain, anger and disgust are still there. She does make light attempts to connect with me, emotionally and physically, but my emotional state is still mostly in anger and I reject attempts at most times of her to connect with me. When I'm in extreme pain, I do accept her attempts to connect.

However, it almost feels like it will take a HUGE amount of positivity (on her part) to dilute the negativity of the affair.

But if she is in the mode of "wanting life to be normal" (she has moved ahead perhaps) and I'm still stuck, then what is the solution to this problem?

Asking the question a different way, how "should" we deal with the elephant?

I plan to ask the marriage counselor this question in 3 days, when we meet her.

In the meantime, does anyone have any other ideas?

January 12, 2016

Read through your entire thread again.

Most posters have given you tons of ideas - most of which you aren't willing to implement.

Filing for divorce is a step in a negative direction of reconciliation. My goal is reconciliation, not divorce, so I'm looking for positive ideas on how I can get over the pain with my wife's help.

What are the things a wayward wife can do to help me get over the pain of the affair permanently? Mentally, I obviously imagine it has to be "hugely" positive, not just "normally" positive. Is this really true? Can hugely positive efforts from her side really help me get over the trauma and PTSD?

January 12, 2016

Filing for divorce is a step in a negative direction of reconciliation. My goal is reconciliation, not divorce, so I'm looking for positive ideas on how I can get over the pain with my wife's help.
What are the things a wayward wife can do to help me get over the pain of the affair permanently? Mentally, I obviously imagine it has to be "hugely" positive, not just "normally" positive. Is this really true? Can hugely positive efforts from her side really help me get over the trauma and PTSD?

Yes but your wife has to be willing to make those hugely positive efforts. I believe this has been said several times.

If your wife isn't willing to change how she is approaching her actions, I fail to see how reconciliation is possible.

You can want LS members to tell you what you want to hear, but we won't do that if there are no signs that your wife is making progress.

Edited January 12, 2016 by BettyDraper

January 12, 2016

First step, stop letting the cheater who makes really bad decisions decide the future of your marriage. If you are unwilling to call her bluff she will cake eat until your man enough to shut down the bakery. That woman who sleeps in the other room should be put on notice, commit to the marriage, standard boundaries or find an apartment. That's how simple your plan needs to be, stop complicating your life. Your method isn't working, why not try ours for sh*ts and giggles, what else have you got to loose? Find a counsellor that specializes in infidelity, anyone else is a waste of your time and your money.

January 12, 2016

(she has moved ahead perhaps) and I'm still stuck, then what is the solution to this problem?

Therapy. For you. At this stage, she isn't the problem. YOU need to find a way to process this stuff. I'm not telling you to just get over it. I'm telling you to come up with a plan, with a professional's help, and do the homework he gives you so you can move forward.

Edited January 12, 2016 by turnera

January 12, 2016

"Filing for divorce is a step in a negative direction of reconciliation."

In this case, I don't think it would be.

January 12, 2016

"Filing for divorce is a step in a negative direction of reconciliation."

In this case, I don't think it would be.

That's what he doesn't understand. Filing for divorce is his best chance for reconciliation. She'll have to come down off the fence. Anything short of this simply allows the status quo to continue, because she is in charge and this is what she wants.

January 12, 2016

BY NS
Filing for divorce is a step in a negative direction of reconciliation. My goal is reconciliation, not divorce, so I'm looking for positive ideas on how I can get over the pain with my wife's help.
What are the things a wayward wife can do to help me get over the pain of the affair permanently? Mentally, I obviously imagine it has to be "hugely" positive, not just "normally" positive. Is this really true? Can hugely positive efforts from her side really help me get over the trauma and PTSD?

You have both dealing with this for over 8 months and you have posted an enormous amount of posts on this forum. You have been given a ton of information by the responders that have been where you and your wife are.

Your wife has had time to give you “hugely positive efforts” but according to your post she has not. The bottom line is that you both are very weak and cannot or will not give each other “hugely positive efforts”. According to you your wife is not helping you enough. In that case guess who you have left? You have yourself left because you can only control and change you. You have written so much on this forum that you probably have worn out your key board. Talk has its place but you have talked enough and now you need to FACE REALITY and you take ACTION!

Of course you can ignore this suggestion like you have so many posts in this thread but how much progress have you made by talking for over 8 months? It is time for you to concentrate on you and get therapy and then take ACTIONS to get better

January 12, 2016

I'll reiterate what everyone else is saying. And repeat what I said to you 5 days ago.

It takes two to reconcile. Does she EVEN WANT to reconcile. By having secret passwords she sure isn't showing a desire to earn your trust.

I believe you stated you've talked to a lawyer.

Just start the filing process now. Most states there is a mandatory waiting period anyway. During that time, it can be your ultimatum. Either she goes through the steps you define for full recovery or you get divorce. Many times just the act of showing a little bit of backbone is enough to make waywards realize they can't continue to be self-centered and must make changes.

If she truly doesn't care about you filing then you have that answer too, in that she doesn't really care about you or your marriage.

Good Luck

Some really good advice I got during my personal journey was to protect myself legally. Even if I had no desire to get divorced I was told to seek out and speak to a lawyer, and let my fWW know I was talking to a lawyer. The reasons were 2 fold, one to protect myself legally, but two that sometimes just that act of showing some backbone in the situation is enough to show your WW that you are not joking around and this is true, just that in of itself may make it more "real" to her and kickstart real reconciliation.

Make the MC appointment, make a lawyer appointment. Show her one way or another things are going to change. Stop being a passenger in this shipwreck of a marriage and start driving the boat.

January 12, 2016

I would say that getting past it is more reasonable. Getting over it, no.

But that takes years of her making effort to offer you complete peace of mind and she hasn't.

Hiding her passwords and sleeping in the other room and not being willing to have any conversation you need to have is not a woman trying to reconcile.

Her behavior is of a woman that's still in her affair - or looking for another one.

A person's behavior is always more indicative of their intent than any words they may say.

Your wife is still showing behavior that she is selfish and self centered and no one here can make her change.

Taking away her comfort zone MAY induce change from her end - but you're not willing to help her be uncomfortable. Leaving her 'comfortable' will not bring change when she's unremorseful.

You either bring on the discomfort to invoke her to change or you keep being uncomfortable in order for HER to be comfortable...but this is the ultimate codependent and very unhealthy for you.

Dear S2B,

For most of your posts, it appears that I disagree with you, maybe because of my own beliefs or emotional patterns, but this is one post in which I completely agree with you.

I completely agree that I'm being uncomfortable in exchange for her comfort. The underlying fear I have is that if I try to move the balance more towards my comfort (and her natural discomfort), that she would feel that I'm trying to abuse her. She has clearly told me that, and my fear is that if she feels I'm abusing her (her initial complaint in our marriage in which she thought I was too controlling), then it would stir up the entire previous 15 years of her misperception (It is a misperception from my perspective, but obviously a perception from her perspective).

What I want to say to her is this: Dear wife, I'm TELLING you what you can do to help me "get over" your affair. Come here, sit next to me. Hold me when I cry profusely. Never let go, during the time you spend with me. Let the cooking be. Make us all just a sandwich for the next 6 months. Let the kids be themselves for a while and instead, spend more time with me. Look at me directly into my eyes (even if I feel angry), hold my hands, convince me that you're "in love" with me. Seduce me. Wear some sexy clothes if you feel horny and want to have sex with me. Sit on my lap. Smooch me deeply. Tell me you want me. Ask me to pleasure you. Ask me to give it to you. Express yourself. Moan in pleasure. Open up. Tell me what you want me to do to you. Later, tell me you want me to take you to "that" restaurant. Tell me you're too tired to cook. Tell me you want us to take 1 day off, just for ourselves. Take control when I don't feel a desire to connect but you do.

What she is saying is this: Dear husband, I cannot come to you when you feel angry. I cannot come to you when you feel pain and you "expect" me to be comforted by you. I feel like you are using me to get over your own pain and then you will just dump me. I feel you are emotionally abusing me when you feel anger, but yet expect me to come to you. I don't feel any love from you because you don't make the effort to come to me. You don't want to be romantic towards me. You don't take the initiative to "woo" me. I cannot move back into the bedroom because I feel that you are just using me. I feel that you're holding me responsible for your pain. What do you expect me to do when you feel anger? How can you expect me to come to you when you feel anger? No normal person can go to someone who is angry with them. Even a dog would not want to do to a person if the dog does not feel love from that person. I cannot have get naked and have sex with you when there is no connection. I don't feel a connection with you when you are angry. I don't feel a connection with you when you are in pain.

The above is my perception of the "conversations" that probably happen in our minds (A lot of this conversation is even verbalized by us explicitly telling each other this)

In a conversation just a few minutes ago this morning, it was clear that we loved each other but were not "in love" with each other. This conversation turned into an argument. She feels that we are building a brand new relationship from scratch to be able to build that feeling of "being in love".

Where I am stuck (mentally) is this: Ok, so if you also don't have feelings of "being in love" with me, then how can you expect me to build a brand new relationship with a woman who cheated on her husband? I would never "start" a relationship with ANY woman that had cheated on her husband.

If you want me to think of "rebuilding" what we previously had, I agree that I was "mostly" happy with you in our 15 years of marriage, but if you want me to consider the past, I also land up considering your affair. Its impossible for me to selectively (and psychologically justify it) block out memories.

January 12, 2016

That's what he doesn't understand. Filing for divorce is his best chance for reconciliation. She'll have to come down off the fence. Anything short of this simply allows the status quo to continue, because she is in charge and this is what she wants.

It may not be a step in a negative direction, but that is how she will DEFINITELY PERCEIVE it to be (based on our history of me knowing her for 15 years).

She will perceive 2 things when (and if) I file for divorce:

1) That I DON'T WANT to make this work.

2) That I'm trying to CONTROL her.

How do I get her to see past her misperception? Should I address this with the marriage counselor?

January 12, 2016

NS - you're missing the point. She is disrespecting you. Do what YOU need to do to protect yourself and forget about the outcome.

I know you want to stay together. Let's say that you do, with you giving her no consequences. It's just a matter of time before she does this again or leaves you because she has no respect for you for not standing up for yourself.

Focus on yourself, not saving her OR your marriage. That's what it MUST be for this to work.

January 12, 2016

.

How do I get her to see

this is your problem right here. Stop.

If anything, SHE should be getting you to see. The fact that she isn't is very telling, isn't it?

January 12, 2016

It may not be a step in a negative direction, but that is how she will DEFINITELY PERCEIVE it to be (based on our history of me knowing her for 15 years).

She will perceive 2 things when (and if) I file for divorce:
1) That I DON'T WANT to make this work.
2) That I'm trying to CONTROL her.

How do I get her to see past her misperception? Should I address this with the marriage counselor?

This is what men like you don't understand. you are AFRAID that she will react in anger and just say 'Fine! i don't want you!' and so you are unwilling to show her that you will NOT stay married to someone who is only half in on the marriage.

I'd be rich if I got a dollar for every man who came here and said the exact same thing you just said. And guess what? It's not true. She WANTS a strong man. A man who won't put up with crap. This is a sh*t test, like all women throw, and you are failing. In her eyes, you are weak because you stay with her only half in. Women chase after strong men - that's why they fall into affairs so easily, the OM appears strong by pursuing her and you appear weak by not catching on and by staying. You have a MUCH better chance of getting her to give a damn about you by you saying 'you know, this isn't working for me; I want a wife who CARES and I deserve better than this' and then letting her prove she deserves you.

January 12, 2016

This is what men like you don't understand. you are AFRAID that she will react in anger and just say 'Fine! i don't want you!' and so you are unwilling to show her that you will NOT stay married to someone who is only half in on the marriage.

I'd be rich if I got a dollar for every man who came here and said the exact same thing you just said. And guess what? It's not true. She WANTS a strong man. A man who won't put up with crap. This is a sh*t test, like all women throw, and you are failing. In her eyes, you are weak because you stay with her only half in. Women chase after strong men - that's why they fall into affairs so easily, the OM appears strong by pursuing her and you appear weak by not catching on and by staying. You have a MUCH better chance of getting her to give a damn about you by you saying 'you know, this isn't working for me; I want a wife who CARES and I deserve better than this' and then letting her prove she deserves you.

+1.

And seriously if she does react in the way bolded above, why the heck would you want to be married to her? If that is her reaction then she obviously isn't into the marriage 100%.

Edited to add - Have you personally asked her if she wants to continue to be married to you?

Edited January 12, 2016 by MadJackBird

January 12, 2016

This is what men like you don't understand. you are AFRAID that she will react in anger and just say 'Fine! i don't want you!' and so you are unwilling to show her that you will NOT stay married to someone who is only half in on the marriage.

I'd be rich if I got a dollar for every man who came here and said the exact same thing you just said. And guess what? It's not true. She WANTS a strong man. A man who won't put up with crap. This is a sh*t test, like all women throw, and you are failing. In her eyes, you are weak because you stay with her only half in. Women chase after strong men - that's why they fall into affairs so easily, the OM appears strong by pursuing her and you appear weak by not catching on and by staying. You have a MUCH better chance of getting her to give a damn about you by you saying 'you know, this isn't working for me; I want a wife who CARES and I deserve better than this' and then letting her prove she deserves you.

This post just won the internet. Every word here is gold, and my experience directly confirms this.

I divorced my cheating ex wife. She was having an affair with the guy from her work. She treated me like crap, until I woke up and said "you know what? I deserve better than this. I'm outta here." I divorced her and never looked back. Four years after we split up, she is respectful, nice, and super cooperative. The very same woman who tried to bleed me for every red cent she could has now actually offered to give up child support and put 50/50 custody of our daughter on paper.

This is also the same woman who is openly cheating on her new husband, who doesn't do a darned thing about it. I truly think she has more respect for me than her new husband (who I actually like; he's a really nice man who is very good to my daughter, and I'm grateful for that).

Strong men don't put up with disrespect and adultery.

January 12, 2016

This is what men like you don't understand. you are AFRAID that she will react in anger and just say 'Fine! i don't want you!' and so you are unwilling to show her that you will NOT stay married to someone who is only half in on the marriage.

She has already said this by her actions including having an affair in the first place, and then by refusing to be transparent (i.e. passwords). If she really wanted the OP, she would be fighting for him and the marriage.

PS - The irony of the marriage dynamics is she is using the "you are too controlling" card to control the OP.

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