Dealing with wife's affair.

January 7, 2016

NS....In the last 5 months, my wife has left me all alone, emotionally and physically disconnected with me. moving out of our bedroom, saying that she could not handle her emotions as well as mine, at the same time.

This is so wrong on soooooo many levels.

Do you see that?

She is STILL placing her needs above yours....at the time you need her most to pull her weight...she has said....your needs are not as important as her needs.

Honestly....that's how she had an affair in the first place....she convinced herself that her needs were more important than yours.

January 7, 2016

No, I'm not. Perhaps I should read his thread as others have suggested that our situations may be similar?

No, VBM is not a doormat, but had a need to find out why his wife cheated. He is a strong individual, who loves his wife. His wife, unlike yours, was doing everything to reconcile and make amends.

The why of what happened was in the end, devastating.

January 7, 2016

I would not use the adjective "healthy" to describe any of this, but thats because the circumstances are not healthy or normal. I would only use the adjective "healthy" to describe boundaries under the condition of normal, daily living. I would use the phrase "needed attitude" instead of "healthy boundary", as follows:

1) Her taking full responsibility for her affair.
2) Her taking full responsibility for the damage caused.
3) Her taking most of the responsibility for repairing the damage that has been caused.

All 3 of the above have not been going to the level I expect, although 3) was going very well in the first 3 months, then became worse and now, seems to be improving.

I do not understand how any of the above goals are attainable if you truly believe she was a victim in the situation. If you really believe she had no control over her actions then, logically, what does she have to be responsible for? If it was not her fault, how can you expect her to show any remorse?

I am confused. Is she the victim or the crime? If you affirm her belief that she was a victim of this predator, you have to expect she feels she has no culpability in the situation. After all, if you honestly believe her to be a victim, why should she feel responsible? If you feel she was responsible, logically, you believe she had a voluntary choice to enter the affair. That being the case, she cannot be a victim.

The reason I bring this up is that she may be legitimately confused as to how you perceive her role in the situation. Should she feel sorry or should you feel sorry for her? I do not know all the facts, so I cannot say what the situation is. But I am simply demonstrating it must be one or the other and cannot be both.

Best of Luck,

OL

January 7, 2016

NS. I know you've been treated very harshly by some members here. I posted before that everyone has their own bias & comes with different opinions.

Please look at WHO is posting to you! Attacking Turnera, one of the few working here WITH you to achieve what YOU want making allowances for the personalities of you & your wife (as presented by you) is WRONG!!

PLEASE! You've expressed gratitude to some of us for the way we're trying to help you. I for one feel VERY defensive & negative when you're mean to someone I'm very fond of. It's unfair! No-one is being paid to help you.

I know you're taking a lot of abuse here. Deep breath.

I'm very sorry for lashing out at Turnera. I am grateful for all the help, and simply want to stick to the facts, not make things worse for my emotional state with baseless conclusions about what my wife is planning or how long she is planning to take in showing me full support and passion.

January 7, 2016

I'm very sorry for lashing out at Turnera. I am grateful for all the help, and simply want to stick to the facts, not make things worse for my emotional state with baseless conclusions about what my wife is planning or how long she is planning to take in showing me full support and passion.

Now see, this just shows what your REAL fear is. You are TERRIFIED she's going to leave you. So if anyone even discusses it, you lash out to cover that fear. You should spend some time really thinking hard about that.

January 7, 2016

NS....In the last 5 months, my wife has left me all alone, emotionally and physically disconnected with me. moving out of our bedroom, saying that she could not handle her emotions as well as mine, at the same time.

This is so wrong on soooooo many levels.
Do you see that?

She is STILL placing her needs above yours....at the time you need her most to pull her weight...she has said....your needs are not as important as her needs.

Honestly....that's how she had an affair in the first place....she convinced herself that her needs were more important than yours.

My thoughts exactly. I agree with you 100%

One reality is this: Sometimes, 2 people who are blind cannot lead each other. I believe that we were both in tremendous pain (post affair), and just as she was not able to comfort me in my pain, I was also not able to comfort her in her pain. I felt completely incapable, because my pain was so intense, that I was like a dog who could not stop howling in pain or thinking about the nail in his paw. Maybe she was in the same situation?

She used to often silently confess to me that I may not have been able to see her pain because she did not express it in the ways that I did. She pointed me to several articles that indicated that a person guilty of such a serious marital crime who causes tremendous pain to their partner, often suffers from much more intense pain of guilt than the betrayed partner. I don't know if this can really be true?

I did see her go to church every Sunday and read several books and articles about guilt, pain and how to deal with those and be able to forgive yourself.

She also admits and claims that her unhappiness in the relationship was due to a misperception and that she did not know where to look for true happiness. She also admits that she did not even know how to handle her perceived unhappiness correctly and sought out the wrong paths in the process.

January 7, 2016

Now see, this just shows what your REAL fear is. You are TERRIFIED she's going to leave you. So if anyone even discusses it, you lash out to cover that fear. You should spend some time really thinking hard about that.

I'm very afraid and terrified of being lonely, not of her leaving me. At this point, I have lost most of my feelings for her, but the honest truth is that I simply care about the relationship itself and the 15 years of investment and the hassle and emotional distress to the entire family as a result of a decision to divorce. Also, its possible my feelings for her may revive, so why not give it a chance?

January 7, 2016

I do not understand how any of the above goals are attainable if you truly believe she was a victim in the situation. If you really believe she had no control over her actions then, logically, what does she have to be responsible for? If it was not her fault, how can you expect her to show any remorse?

I am confused. Is she the victim or the crime? If you affirm her belief that she was a victim of this predator, you have to expect she feels she has no culpability in the situation. After all, if you honestly believe her to be a victim, why should she feel responsible? If you feel she was responsible, logically, you believe she had a voluntary choice to enter the affair. That being the case, she cannot be a victim.

The reason I bring this up is that she may be legitimately confused as to how you perceive her role in the situation. Should she feel sorry or should you feel sorry for her? I do not know all the facts, so I cannot say what the situation is. But I am simply demonstrating it must be one or the other and cannot be both.

Best of Luck,
OL

Its not as simple. I honestly think she was a perpetrator as well as a victim, but in different proportions at different times.

I have thought about this very deeply, on several occasions. These are my conclusions:

1) I VERY LIGHTLY perceive her as a victim going into the affair. That was mostly her choice and an unfortunate overlap of the situation of her being emotionally vulnerable, being targeted by a predator and ofcourse her own choice of giving into an evil temptation.

2) I do perceive her as 100% a victim, coming out of the affair, because she was manipulated and used by that b*st*rd of a scumbag.

My own emotional reactions towards her have been more (95%) along the lines of NOT perceiving her as a victim, but perceiving her as the perpetrator. This may partly be so because I'm not in her shoes and may not be able to feel the full extent of victimization.

I also feel that she herself may have confused 2) with 1), thereby feeling more victimized than real.

January 7, 2016

No, VBM is not a doormat, but had a need to find out why his wife cheated. He is a strong individual, who loves his wife. His wife, unlike yours, was doing everything to reconcile and make amends.

The why of what happened was in the end, devastating.

This is completely true.

January 7, 2016

Ref. post 374

When you were talking about the telephone session with your friend councilor did you mean 'Your wife's explanation of her behavior for the LAST 5 MONTHS was she needed that time (already taken) to think about things & is NOW ready to move on?

I think this has caused confusion. If she wants 5 MORE months UGH!!! Bad!!!!

Yes, its the LAST 5 months (already taken) that I'm talking about.

January 7, 2016

Yes, its the LAST 5 months (already taken) that I'm talking about.

Ok, my apologies. I read that as her saying she needed ANOTHER five months before she'd 'get started.'

So time's up, right? Now is the time. MAKE AN APPOINTMENT with a therapist. INFORM HER that you have made the appointment and you expect her to attend. Also inform her that if she doesn't attend, you will assume she doesn't really want to fix the marriage, and you will then move forward accordingly (i.e. see a lawyer).

NOW is the time for you to make it clear you HAVE to see real change. And that you HAVE to do it with the help of a professional.

Anything other than that is pointless, destructive, and spinning your wheels. Now is the time to set your feet on the ground, state what you MUST have, and move forward without her if she won't do it with you. Please trust me. She HAS to see you willing to move on if she won't get outside her comfort zone.

I know it's scary for her. But show her that you're on her side, you won't let the therapist tear her apart, you're not taking her there for that reason, that you want a professional's guidance on how to fix the marriage.

btw, have you verified that she is not calling or texting any strange numbers?

Edited January 7, 2016 by turnera

January 7, 2016

Its not as simple. I honestly think she was a perpetrator as well as a victim, but in different proportions at different times.

I have thought about this very deeply, on several occasions. These are my conclusions:

1) I VERY LIGHTLY perceive her as a victim going into the affair. That was mostly her choice and an unfortunate overlap of the situation of her being emotionally vulnerable, being targeted by a predator and ofcourse her own choice of giving into an evil temptation.
2) I do perceive her as 100% a victim, coming out of the affair, because she was manipulated and used by that b*st*rd of a scumbag.

My own emotional reactions towards her have been more (95%) along the lines of NOT perceiving her as a victim, but perceiving her as the perpetrator. This may partly be so because I'm not in her shoes and may not be able to feel the full extent of victimization.

I also feel that she herself may have confused 2) with 1), thereby feeling more victimized than real.

If you say things like this and emotionally react towards her like she is the perpetrator then she will be confused. Your word choice makes it clear you do not find her 100% responsible or you wouldn't need to further make excuses for her and villianize him. You're communicating that you want her to be 100% accountable for a choice(s) that you yourself are convinced she is less than 100% responsible for. This outcome is difficult to achieve.

January 7, 2016

Page 28, she's still living in another part of the house, probably will be for another 6 months. She now thinks her affair partner is a monster because he wouldn't leave his wife for her. Poster won't do what is necessary to knock her off the fence, chose him and the marriage or get out so he can stop the pain. Making porn movies of your wife and using the kinkiness of the sex she offers you as a measure of her wiliness to help you heal is just so wrong on so many levels. Just what do you think your very impressionable children are seeing and learning from you and your wife(who actually had the balls to bring her affair partner into your house with the children home to witness her extra marital activities)? Sounds like a keeper. All the experts say the same thing, doing nothing is the worst thing you can do to save a marriage.

January 7, 2016

Ok, my apologies. I read that as her saying she needed ANOTHER five months before she'd 'get started.'

So time's up, right? Now is the time. MAKE AN APPOINTMENT with a therapist. INFORM HER that you have made the appointment and you expect her to attend. Also inform her that if she doesn't attend, you will assume she doesn't really want to fix the marriage, and you will then move forward accordingly (i.e. see a lawyer).

NOW is the time for you to make it clear you HAVE to see real change. And that you HAVE to do it with the help of a professional.

Anything other than that is pointless, destructive, and spinning your wheels. Now is the time to set your feet on the ground, state what you MUST have, and move forward without her if she won't do it with you. Please trust me. She HAS to see you willing to move on if she won't get outside her comfort zone.

I know it's scary for her. But show her that you're on her side, you won't let the therapist tear her apart, you're not taking her there for that reason, that you want a professional's guidance on how to fix the marriage.

btw, have you verified that she is not calling or texting any strange numbers?

+1!

I've been mainly lurking, but jumping in here to support this post 100%.

Some really good advice I got during my personal journey was to protect myself legally. Even if I had no desire to get divorced I was told to seek out and speak to a lawyer, and let my fWW know I was talking to a lawyer. The reasons were 2 fold, one to protect myself legally, but two that sometimes just that act of showing some backbone in the situation is enough to show your WW that you are not joking around and this is true, just that in of itself may make it more "real" to her and kickstart real reconciliation.

Make the MC appointment, make a lawyer appointment. Show her one way or another things are going to change. Stop being a passenger in this shipwreck of a marriage and start driving the boat.

January 7, 2016

Ok, my apologies. I read that as her saying she needed ANOTHER five months before she'd 'get started.'

So time's up, right? Now is the time. MAKE AN APPOINTMENT with a therapist. INFORM HER that you have made the appointment and you expect her to attend. Also inform her that if she doesn't attend, you will assume she doesn't really want to fix the marriage, and you will then move forward accordingly (i.e. see a lawyer).

NOW is the time for you to make it clear you HAVE to see real change. And that you HAVE to do it with the help of a professional.

Anything other than that is pointless, destructive, and spinning your wheels. Now is the time to set your feet on the ground, state what you MUST have, and move forward without her if she won't do it with you. Please trust me. She HAS to see you willing to move on if she won't get outside her comfort zone.

I know it's scary for her. But show her that you're on her side, you won't let the therapist tear her apart, you're not taking her there for that reason, that you want a professional's guidance on how to fix the marriage.

btw, have you verified that she is not calling or texting any strange numbers?

I will be making an appointment tomorrow. It seems like the next available appointment may be atleast 2 weeks out. She has agreed to attend, so I don't think that is going to be a problem.

However, one thing that "may" be a problem may be her unwillingness to talk about how she felt about her affair partner during the affair and the excitement and things of that nature. This morning, when we talked a little about it (she did not want to go there), she told me that it was very painful for her to think about those times again (because it was a very traumatic event for her), and she was also concerned about hurting me by talking about that time and her feelings.

I told her that in order for me to heal, she should be ready to talk about those things (even if with a counselor present), and that it may take multiple sessions for her to tell me the truth. She told me that she has already told me everything (long ago) and that I did not seem to "accept" what she told me (mostly the "victim" attitude of hers).

Is it reasonable for me to expect her to cooperate to talk about the affair for atleast as long as it takes me to be resolved with whatever she says?

I understand that it must be painful for her, but its also painful for me to "not be resolved". Can I depend on the marriage counselor to get her to talk as much as is needed for me to be "resolved"?

What might it take for me to be "resolved" with my questions? How long may it take (how many sessions) to get to that point?

How do I show her that the purpose of this is not to punish her or for the therapist to tear her apart? What can I (or the therapist) say or do to assure her of the intentions?

I have not verified that she isn't texting or emailing any strange numbers or people, because she has changed all her passwords for her devices and email addresses. How do I convince her that this is going to be even harder for me to deal with and that she needs to volunteer access to her devices? Can I take the MC help to achieve this? How? Should I simply put forth my requests of everything that I need to happen, for a full recovery? Or should I leave that decision to the MC of what I need?

January 7, 2016

I think you are placing way too much faith in counseling. You seem to have this perception that a counselor will be able to get your wife to reveal everything...

Maybe it's because we had a bad experience with our psychologist....but i just don't believe that a counselor has that much influence.

I am of the mindset that if your wife is not willing to talk to you about the affair....if she is not willing to give you answers to your questions....then she is not ready to reconcile.

To rebuild this relationship....the first thing she has to be willing to do is become totally transparent to you.....in every way. If she refuses to do that...because it makes her uncomfortable...because it is too painful...

then she truly is being self centered and has learned nothing.

Until she decides to put YOUR feelings above her own...until she become transparent to you about details and information...about accounts and phone numbers and names etc......she is not in a mind to reconcile.

i fear that you think a few visits to a counselor....and all will be well.

It is NOT going to happen.

January 7, 2016

If she won't give you her passwords, you may as well just start the divorce.

January 7, 2016

What is her reason for changing all of her passwords? Why would she do that to you, make you worry? What was her reasoning (aka excuse)?

January 8, 2016

Because my H's affair took place on mobile devices that was a non-negotiable for me! He started to say that his telephone was work & confidential....NO! Our conversation ended with me having ALL of his passwords to EVERYTHING!

He's a computer geek. Head-hunted by companies around the world. I know it's a false sense of security because if he wanted to hide something from me he still can.

He also knows that my best friends computer skills almost rival his.....

It's the principle though! She MUST give you ALL of her passwords.

Now a BIG argument to this could be...."I need to talk to friends etc about my feelings". I believe that saying things to others that you won't share with your partner is damaging to your relationship so that does nothing for me!

January 8, 2016

Just divorce her. I'm serious. She refused to give you her passwords? That is all that needs to be said. It is the little things that can tell you a lot about someone. Your wife doesn't love or care about you and she definitely has something to hide. You have an affair? Sorry, bye bye privacy! Don't like it? Cool, don't be trash and have an affair.

Why waste money on counseling for a woman who doesn't care about you? Since a woman who did would do whatever she could to reassure you that you could trust her. Oh what am I kidding myself about? A woman who cared wouldn't cheat in the first place.

January 8, 2016

I will be making an appointment tomorrow. It seems like the next available appointment may be atleast 2 weeks out. She has agreed to attend, so I don't think that is going to be a problem.

However, one thing that "may" be a problem may be her unwillingness to talk about how she felt about her affair partner during the affair and the excitement and things of that nature. This morning, when we talked a little about it (she did not want to go there), she told me that it was very painful for her to think about those times again (because it was a very traumatic event for her), and she was also concerned about hurting me by talking about that time and her feelings.
I told her that in order for me to heal, she should be ready to talk about those things (even if with a counselor present), and that it may take multiple sessions for her to tell me the truth. She told me that she has already told me everything (long ago) and that I did not seem to "accept" what she told me (mostly the "victim" attitude of hers).

Is it reasonable for me to expect her to cooperate to talk about the affair for atleast as long as it takes me to be resolved with whatever she says?
I understand that it must be painful for her, but its also painful for me to "not be resolved". Can I depend on the marriage counselor to get her to talk as much as is needed for me to be "resolved"?

What might it take for me to be "resolved" with my questions? How long may it take (how many sessions) to get to that point?

How do I show her that the purpose of this is not to punish her or for the therapist to tear her apart? What can I (or the therapist) say or do to assure her of the intentions?

I have not verified that she isn't texting or emailing any strange numbers or people, because she has changed all her passwords for her devices and email addresses. How do I convince her that this is going to be even harder for me to deal with and that she needs to volunteer access to her devices? Can I take the MC help to achieve this? How? Should I simply put forth my requests of everything that I need to happen, for a full recovery? Or should I leave that decision to the MC of what I need?

If your WW has told you everything about the affair there is nothing to be gained by continued talking about. Your WW is smart enough to know that for her to move forward and heal is to forget the affair.

You on the other hand have not learned this and want to continue to wallow in the affair by talking about the affair over and over.

Pointless to ask how she loved the OM. She loved him and did all those things with the OM.

It is one thing to ask how was better in bed, who had the bigger equipment, but to delve why, how much, why, feelings.

All those things are just going to give you unbelievable mind movies. Maybe making recovery impossible.

There must be open access no secret emails, no withholding passwords. Trust can never be repaired if trustworthiness can not be demonstrated.

January 8, 2016

Just divorce her. I'm serious. She refused to give you her passwords? That is all that needs to be said. It is the little things that can tell you a lot about someone. Your wife doesn't love or care about you and she definitely has something to hide. You have an affair? Sorry, bye bye privacy! Don't like it? Cool, don't be trash and have an affair.

Why waste money on counseling for a woman who doesn't care about you? Since a woman who did would do whatever she could to reassure you that you could trust her. Oh what am I kidding myself about? A woman who cared wouldn't cheat in the first place.

Your wife hasn't offered you the passwords to everything? She actually said she's not giving you them after changing them? She's not trying to help heal your marriage she's still hiding and covering things up. This doesn't look good for you and you better start taking a firm stand by taking charge. She could easily still be cheating and that's why she likes being in the other room. It's easier to hide her communications from you. Why haven't you checked? What are you waiting for?

January 8, 2016

You're not in reconciliation, your wife is brazen in her refusal to be transparent with you. You're too far along in this situation to still be dealing with somebody who won't even allow you access to their devices after their affair. When things that any truly remorseful WW would gladly give up for the sake of saving her marriage have to be begged and pleaded for, you (should)know at that point that you're fighting a losing battle.

January 8, 2016

I have not verified that she isn't texting or emailing any strange numbers or people, because she has changed all her passwords for her devices and email addresses. How do I convince her that this is going to be even harder for me to deal with and that she needs to volunteer access to her devices? Can I take the MC help to achieve this? How? Should I simply put forth my requests of everything that I need to happen, for a full recovery? Or should I leave that decision to the MC of what I need?

Huge red flags. She needs to be earning your trust. Complete transparency in those types of things. If she's not willing to do that then she's liking hiding things. You should make that an expectation and no the MC doesn't need to be involved in that request. If she really cares about reconciliation she should be willing to do that.

Edited to add - Ah I posted my reply before reading the dozen or so above mine saying the same thing. This was just a huge OMG moment when you said she was hiding passwords.

During my fWW first fake reconciliation she agreed to be open and honest about all passwords, etc., but then slowly moved to being more secretive again and wanted "her privacy" to talk to her girlfriends without me reading, so slowly locked things up again. Guess what happened, yup. Less then 2 years later she had a new AP. Oh yeah she married that POS and has cheated on him now. He's being a chump and working on his own reconciliation. I'm sure it won't last. Trust has to be earned. Hiding anything is not being trustworthy.

I understand some of your motivation for staying married is for the kids, but you'll be a better dad if you can focus them 100% and not worry about her unfaithfulness and your lack of trust. Believe me, I lived it and am better off. It's not ideal for the kids for sure and I would have reconciled for them as well, but it gets better with time.

Please just move on and seek out a divorce lawyer.

Edited January 8, 2016 by MadJackBird

January 8, 2016

I think you are placing way too much faith in counseling. You seem to have this perception that a counselor will be able to get your wife to reveal everything...

Maybe it's because we had a bad experience with our psychologist....but i just don't believe that a counselor has that much influence.

I am of the mindset that if your wife is not willing to talk to you about the affair....if she is not willing to give you answers to your questions....then she is not ready to reconcile.

To rebuild this relationship....the first thing she has to be willing to do is become totally transparent to you.....in every way. If she refuses to do that...because it makes her uncomfortable...because it is too painful...

then she truly is being self centered and has learned nothing.

Until she decides to put YOUR feelings above her own...until she become transparent to you about details and information...about accounts and phone numbers and names etc......she is not in a mind to reconcile.

i fear that you think a few visits to a counselor....and all will be well.
It is NOT going to happen.

I suspect the same that you suspect, that the counselor may not have much influence. That is why I asked the question about what expectations I can have about a MC. We have been to a MC before (this is not the first time) and in that particular case (about 8 months ago), the marriage counselor DID have some influence on both of us. This is possibly because that particular MC was also a family friend. Maybe that is what allowed the influence?

If we go to a complete stranger as a MC, will the level of influence be as strong as from a family friend?

Also, is it possible for the MC to also have the belief that she needs to be open, transparent and be able to talk about the affair for as long as it takes for my questions and feelings to be "resolved" about it?

I mean is that considered a "normal" (and "needed") requirement for reconciliation (almost like a standard practice)? If so, then I'm guessing the MC should be able to assert that to my wife and clearly acknowledge and warn that no progress can be made without this basic requirement being met by my wife. Maybe the MC may not be able to enforce the requirement, but atleast the MC should be able to clearly lay down and state that requirement to my wife, saying that "any" betrayed spouse would require that (not just me)?

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