Dealing with wife's affair.

[Naively.Sensitive]

You are stating that your wife was mislead by this OMM. Start using words that are significant.

 

She made a choice to cheat. She cheating on you and the marriage.

 

He isn't the "monster" here - she is.

 

Now she gets to sit back and spend her money however she wishes and have financial stability all the while. Meanwhile she's sitting in her room thinking about things.

 

And you...you wait and use lots of words to explain things but take no action to show you prioritize your well being.

 

 

Putting your best interest into the hands of someone else is always risky - especially after that person has shown evidence they will burn you.

 

It's like asking and begging to be burned again...you know she did it - you know she's capable of doing it again, yet you beg to stay.

 

Go ahead, stay. But you know what to expect. Expect her to continue treating you without remorse and without loving behavior.

 

 

Your kids think this is normal - and they will grow up thinking this is what marriage looks like.

 

It affects more than you and your wife - so don't be surprised when your kids marriage mirror yours.

 

She isn't the wife you thought she was.

 

She's not even trying to make effort to 'right' what she made wrong. That's not a nice person.

 

You may think it's 'enough' that she is still there - but I fail to see how this could possibly benefit you and the family unit long term.

 

She really needs help getting knocked off that pedestal you've got her on:

She needs to lose the ego

She needs to OFFER honesty

She needs to grow compassion

She needs to show action that she's changing at her core

She needs to set a good example of a kind and loving wife

 

 

But I'm not seeing strong evidence that she's willing to do even one of those things - and that is why I don't think your approach is working/will work.

 

You're going about it all backwards! I think fear has gotten ahold of your best interest and is road blocking what's required to fix any problems in this union.

 

I fail to call it a marriage - I guess it's a union. A union that benefits her but nobody else.

 

She's selfish and self centered! How do you plan to fix that for her? I don't think you can.

 

In terms of words used and responsibility, I am engaging a marriage counselor to be able to address what level of responsibility she must claim if this is to work.

Words and feelings aside (that is the past), what matters is the present and the future, and as her behaviors and actions are starting to show (She spends some time with me every morning, catering to my pain as well as to her feelings of wanting to connect with me), she IS showing care, love and compassion towards me. I would have to be blind to ignore that.

This weekend (or soon after) she is planning to move back into the bedroom, after it is dusted, cleaned and organized again.

 

In terms of what she is and what she is now becoming, the truth is that nobody can really change someone else. All that can happen is that I see who she is now becoming and I decide if I want to be with her based on who she is slowly becoming.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Your perception is off base.

 

You view your wife as a victim. And you coddle her bad behavior and reward it.

 

You write with lots of fluff but no evidence that she IS sorry she betrayed you. She looks like she's only sorry she got caught!

 

And now that it's swept under the rug she wants to run and hide until you're not mad anymore.

 

Shake that rug out! Pull it out and look at what's underneath it! Examine what caused the affair. She should OWN IT! She knows why. She should be willing to tell you why. It should pertain to HER only!

 

And stop saying 'we'. You don't have a clue how she REALLY feels because she's been hiding in HER room for months hoping you'll forget about what she did to blow up your life.

 

She did you wrong!!!! Since she's not doing EVERYTHING in HER power to set things right there's not one single thing you need to consider. She's using you and you're allowing it.

 

Start being a man who takes charge of his life instead of allowing a cheating princess walk all over him while begging to be treated unkindly even more.

 

The action you take is for you! You deserve better than a wife who cheats, blames the other man, then avoids what she's created.

 

Her avoiding tactics are working for HER - but not for YOU.

 

You need a boundary man. Get some help on how to obtain a healthy boundary because this is NOT what it's supposed to look like.

 

I understand that the boundaries have been warped and out of place for the last 5 months. For the previous 3 months before that, they were not.

Now, I'm giving things a chance to reestablish the boundaries, and giving her a chance to prove if she can reestablish the passionate love I'm looking for in a relationship.

If things don't work out, then I will move on. Its just a matter of giving things a little more time based on her gradually increasing present efforts. Feelings do take time to settle, because humans are not robots.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Who are you trying to convince us or yourself?

Do you read all of these threads?

 

You argue with everyone who does not agree with you.

 

You ask for help you ask for advice you ask for opinions...and then you argue with all points made and give us the reasons why you are going to do exactly what you want to.

 

If you already know what you want why are you still here staring thread after thread?

 

It makes no sense to me.... The words drama queen come to mind.

 

You would argue with a sign if you made it yourself.

 

Good luck... I think you have a rude awakening coming.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Why hasn't SHE offered to get individual counseling?

 

Why isn't she finding the marriage counselor?

 

Get HER to do these things.

 

A few months ago, SHE was making the effort to convince me to go to a marriage counselor, but I was not ready and was too angry.

[Clay]

Who are you trying to convince us or yourself?

Do you read all of these threads?

 

You argue with everyone who does not agree with you.

 

You ask for help you ask for advice you ask for opinions...and then you argue with all points made and give us the reasons why you are going to do exactly what you want to.

 

If you already know what you want why are you still here staring thread after thread?

 

It makes no sense to me.... The words drama queen come to mind.

 

You would argue with a sign if you made it yourself.

 

Good luck... I think you have a rude awakening coming.

 

He doesn't want real help. He just wants to complain. If he really wanted to save this he would listen and actually do the things everyone is suggesting.

 

You are right this is not going to end well for him.

 

C

[ShatteredLady]

Does it really matter who makes the appointment at this point? This shouldn't be another stand off!

 

When one person says that they're walking on eggshells & the other says they want, NEED affection but are so angry they refuse to make the most of it when handed on a plate THEY NEED MC.

 

Other than the "How to choose a MC" we're sticking with just this thread now aren't we?

[Naively.Sensitive]

Ok, I'll bite...

 

Tell me exactly what your healthy boundary looks like. Tell me how it's working for you.

 

I would not use the adjective "healthy" to describe any of this, but thats because the circumstances are not healthy or normal. I would only use the adjective "healthy" to describe boundaries under the condition of normal, daily living. I would use the phrase "needed attitude" instead of "healthy boundary", as follows:

 

1) Her taking full responsibility for her affair.

2) Her taking full responsibility for the damage caused.

3) Her taking most of the responsibility for repairing the damage that has been caused.

 

All 3 of the above have not been going to the level I expect, although 3) was going very well in the first 3 months, then became worse and now, seems to be improving.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Why haven't you gone to IC?

 

You need to work on yourself and have a professional give you guidance. Will you do that for yourself - before you engage in the MC?

 

I think you're offering a very desperate and angry energy into the M and aren't very strong on your own. Working on yourself first should give you some ideas about how to become a stronger man - and how to have a boundary - and how to lose the fears that your basing your decisions upon.

 

 

You need solid help before you can work on the marriage...otherwise your only offering your broken self to the union.

 

That is a very good point you brought up. I have been to IC and have also been trying many of the strategies mentioned in 180.

Overall I'm a little stronger than I was 5 months ago. Proof of this has been in the fact that I have been able to get by, all alone in my bedroom, separate from her (although it still has been very painful), and I have not been the one to ask her to come back into the bedroom. On a few occasions, she has been the one to ask me why I have not asked her to come back.

 

My own individual recovery is also going to be a very very long journey, (I can tell), so I cannot postpone MC until I am fully, individually recovered.

Its also possible that if I get more support from my wife (as an outcome of the MC), my individual recovery may accelerate.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Does it really matter who makes the appointment at this point? This shouldn't be another stand off!

 

When one person says that they're walking on eggshells & the other says they want, NEED affection but are so angry they refuse to make the most of it when handed on a plate THEY NEED MC.

 

Other than the "How to choose a MC" we're sticking with just this thread now aren't we?

 

Yeah. Why should it matter who makes the appointment? That is purely an ego thing, and (I'm glad that) ego is the least of my vices.

[katielee]

Yeah. Why should it matter who makes the appointment? That is purely an ego thing, and (I'm glad that) ego is the least of my vices.

 

because at some point the WS needs to take the reigns..

it's not an ego thing - its a you broke this, you fix it thing. anything else is enabling behavior.

[turnera]

When is the last time you told her "I'm not happy that you have stopped actively working on making this marriage better after what you did"?

[Naively.Sensitive]

When is the last time you told her "I'm not happy that you have stopped actively working on making this marriage better after what you did"?

 

I told her that 2 days ago in a joint conference call with a friend (an old college friend) who has been serving as a counselor for us.

The response I got (from her) was that she needed some space (5 months) to be able to build enough strength (among other things, possibly guilt, a change in her perspective of me) to be "back in the game" and be able to actively work on making the marriage better and help me heal from the affair. It seems like she is saying that she did not have enough strength to deal with her emotions and mine at the same time.

Things have started to back recently again, when I have started to see her gradually increasing efforts again.

[Naively.Sensitive]

because at some point the WS needs to take the reigns..

it's not an ego thing - its a you broke this, you fix it thing. anything else is enabling behavior.

 

She will have an opportunity to fix it when the marriage counselor tells her to do so. Hopefully a marriage counselor CAN exercise some authority to be able to say that and can "explicitly reveal such a professional opinion directly".

[OneLov]

OP,

 

I think you should read the below link as it applies to your situation and explains why trying to control every single aspect of reconciliation may make the situation even worse. Best of Luck.

 

The Magical Reconciliation Pixie ~ Infidelity Help Group

[turnera]

I told her that 2 days ago in a joint conference call with a friend (an old college friend) who has been serving as a counselor for us.

The response I got (from her) was that she needed some space (5 months) to be able to build enough strength (among other things, possibly guilt, a change in her perspective of me) to be "back in the game" and be able to actively work on making the marriage better and help me heal from the affair. It seems like she is saying that she did not have enough strength to deal with her emotions and mine at the same time.

Things have started to back recently again, when I have started to see her gradually increasing efforts again.

Wait, so two days ago she said she wanted you to wait five MORE months and then she would magically be ready to rape you?

 

If that's true, then she's squirreling money away and plans to move out in 4 months.

[katielee]

OMG - that is AWESOME. I did SO MANY of those things...

 

"that if you do nothing, they will do nothing and then you will have to act (maybe by leaving)? Maybe you are fearful that if the Ogre doesn’t change and you choose to stay anyway, you give up all claim to being a victim of their choices and instead have to be responsible for the consequences of your own? Perhaps if you see the truth of the Ogre and still stay in unhappiness and disappointment, you give up the right to complain about your situation?"

 

yep.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Can you please answer the questions I've asked you today?

 

It's your pattern too...avoiding answering the real questions asked of you.

 

 

I see big issues with both of you - being extremely conflict avoidant and unwillingness to state a boundary and unwillingness to take real action.

 

These are not good dynamics for fixing anything.

 

They are dynamics for a very unhealthy Union.

 

What exact questions? What do you mean by boundaries?

 

"unwillingness to take real action": What "action" are you suggesting? Divorce? I already told you that I don't want that outcome, so I'm trying solutions to avoid that outcome and completely repair the relationship with my wife's help (since that presents itself as a possibility at this point). What part of that do you not get?

[Naively.Sensitive]

OP,

 

I think you should read the below link as it applies to your situation and explains why trying to control every single aspect of reconciliation may make the situation even worse. Best of Luck.

 

The Magical Reconciliation Pixie ~ Infidelity Help Group

 

Thanks, I will certainly read that. Maybe that is what I need and am missing?

[Naively.Sensitive]

Wait, so two days ago she said she wanted you to wait five MORE months and then she would magically be ready to rape you?

 

If that's true, then she's squirreling money away and plans to move out in 4 months.

 

Where did you get that number of five months from? Are you delusional?

Where did I say that she would magically rape me? Can you read english or are you just trying to antagonize me?

Wow! And you know right? You have some kind of a magic ball through which you can read her mind that she is planning to squirrel money away?

Even if she does squirrel money away, its actually money that she has earned from her own paychecks. I can do the same with my paychecks if I want to, in that scenario. Not to mention that in states that hold the "communal property" concept, it might be unlawful to hide money in the event of a possible divorce. Is that not so?

[turnera]

Where did you get that number of five months from? Are you delusional?

Where did I say that she would magically rape me? Can you read english or are you just trying to antagonize me?

Wow! And you know right? You have some kind of a magic ball through which you can read her mind that she is planning to squirrel money away?

Even if she does squirrel money away, its actually money that she has earned from her own paychecks. I can do the same with my paychecks if I want to, in that scenario. Not to mention that in states that hold the "communal property" concept, it might be unlawful to hide money in the event of a possible divorce. Is that not so?

Explain to me why you are attacking ME?

 

Of ALL the people here, I am the only one steadfastly defending her 'right' to be offended by you, which you cling so strongly to.

 

YOU want to be raped. Metaphorically. It's what you said you're hoping for, waiting for. SHE said she needs five more months before she will consider BEING that person who will metaphorically raping you.

 

And my 20+ years of experience dealing with fearful men like you is what allows me to read her mind. IF she is not willing to step up any more like she did the first 3 months, there are two possible reasons: (1) she stopped being afraid you would dump her and (2) she's biding time. In the hundreds and hundreds of threads I've helped with over the years, I have yet to see ANY other reason for a woman to START to do reconciliation, and then back off.

[turnera]

And the truth is, she has to KNOW you will leave before she will leave her comfortable 'happy place' and put herself out there for you and do the work. We KNOW you don't want to divorce. SHE knows it too. The ONLY times my H is willing to examine himself in 35 years is when he sees me ready to walk. It's human nature.

Edited January 6, 2016 by turnera

[ShatteredLady]

NS. I know you've been treated very harshly by some members here. I posted before that everyone has their own bias & comes with different opinions.

 

Please look at WHO is posting to you! Attacking Turnera, one of the few working here WITH you to achieve what YOU want making allowances for the personalities of you & your wife (as presented by you) is WRONG!!

 

PLEASE! You've expressed gratitude to some of us for the way we're trying to help you. I for one feel VERY defensive & negative when you're mean to someone I'm very fond of. It's unfair! No-one is being paid to help you.

 

 

I know you're taking a lot of abuse here. Deep breath.

[ShatteredLady]

Ref. post 374

 

When you were talking about the telephone session with your friend councilor did you mean 'Your wife's explanation of her behavior for the LAST 5 MONTHS was she needed that time (already taken) to think about things & is NOW ready to move on?

 

I think this has caused confusion. If she wants 5 MORE months UGH!!! Bad!!!!

[ShatteredLady]

Note - A 'friend' shouldn't be your therapist. There are strict rules about this sort of thing.

 

You already know that you need MC in addition to the work you are doing on yourself. Is your IC a stranger or a friend?

 

 

Let's just remind ourselves of some details...

 

This is a long relationship (15 years) with children involved.

This is a couple from a different culture living a pretty isolated life in a foreign country.

 

The OM slowly built this A by offering to find employment (which he did) for the W who has issues about control & lack of self fulfillment. Manipulation is NO excuse but I can see that this woman 'COULD' of been more easily manipulated than many.

This is my reasoning ONLY for her being hesitant to take the FULL responsibility that she NEEDS to.

It's human nature to site excuses for terrible behavior. This is something she needs to work on & FULLY UNDERSTAND.

 

She CONFESSED. THE affair was NOT discovered.

 

She did (nearly) everything asked of her in the first 3 months after confession including....

 

* Recording MANY HOURS of confession & interrogation.

* Visiting the 'crime scenes' with her H.

* Video taped 'Porn star' sex as requested.

* Hysterical bonding. Sex on request for 3 months.

 

She continues to try to be close, cuddling, talking, holding hands, being affectionate, laying on bed with him etc & her attempts are frequently met with anger, silent treatment, passive aggressive behavior.

 

Of course the OP is an emotional wreck. As a bs I understand this, I really do but it's NOT an environment conducive to reconciliation....not the kind the op wants (passionate, porn star, free, unhindered etc).

 

I find myself writing as if I'm defending her.....it's just because she is so attacked! She's a human being who did a disgusting, devastating thing, repeatedly for 3 months (?) but she's not an evil, manipulative heartless ho. Presenting her in that way isn't helping the OP. It's making him defensive.

 

At this time he doesn't want to divorce her. He wants to try everything he can to keep his family together. She's the mother of his children. Calling her evil incarnate isn't helping.....

[Naively.Sensitive]

Note - A 'friend' shouldn't be your therapist. There are strict rules about this sort of thing.

 

You already know that you need MC in addition to the work you are doing on yourself. Is your IC a stranger or a friend?

 

 

Let's just remind ourselves of some details...

 

This is a long relationship (15 years) with children involved.

This is a couple from a different culture living a pretty isolated life in a foreign country.

 

The OM slowly built this A by offering to find employment (which he did) for the W who has issues about control & lack of self fulfillment. Manipulation is NO excuse but I can see that this woman 'COULD' of been more easily manipulated than many.

This is my reasoning ONLY for her being hesitant to take the FULL responsibility that she NEEDS to.

It's human nature to site excuses for terrible behavior. This is something she needs to work on & FULLY UNDERSTAND.

 

She CONFESSED. THE affair was NOT discovered.

 

She did (nearly) everything asked of her in the first 3 months after confession including....

 

* Recording MANY HOURS of confession & interrogation.

* Visiting the 'crime scenes' with her H.

* Video taped 'Porn star' sex as requested.

* Hysterical bonding. Sex on request for 3 months.

 

She continues to try to be close, cuddling, talking, holding hands, being affectionate, laying on bed with him etc & her attempts are frequently met with anger, silent treatment, passive aggressive behavior.

 

Of course the OP is an emotional wreck. As a bs I understand this, I really do but it's NOT an environment conducive to reconciliation....not the kind the op wants (passionate, porn star, free, unhindered etc).

 

I find myself writing as if I'm defending her.....it's just because she is so attacked! She's a human being who did a disgusting, devastating thing, repeatedly for 3 months (?) but she's not an evil, manipulative heartless ho. Presenting her in that way isn't helping the OP. It's making him defensive.

 

At this time he doesn't want to divorce her. He wants to try everything he can to keep his family together. She's the mother of his children. Calling her evil incarnate isn't helping.....

 

ShatteredLady,

 

This is a good summary, except there are 2 important facts that are missing:

 

1) In the last 5 months, my wife has left me all alone, emotionally and physically disconnected with me. moving out of our bedroom, saying that she could not handle her emotions as well as mine, at the same time.

This has added an additional level of shock, pain and suffering to my already destroyed state as a result of her affair. I have lost all feelings for her as a result of the affair and her lack of support for my recovery in the past 5 months.

She has now slowly made some initiatives to try to reconnect and support me.

 

2) In the last 5 months, I have addressed and taken action to fix almost all her areas of unhappiness with our preaffair relationship, including her perception of my too much financial control (curbing) of our household expenses.