Dealing with wife's affair.

[ShatteredLady]

Quote -

"One point she brought up during some honest conversations a few days ago, is that it did not feel "natural" to her to do these things because she did not feel "wooed" enough by me."

 

 

I think that most women who aren't feeling the passion would say these things.

 

I know that I need my brain to be 'wooed' for my body to respond. I need to feel safe, loved & cherished (all the soft romantic things & attention OUTSIDE the bedroom) before I feel naughty & free to express my wild side in the bedroom.

 

I could never be a call-girl. I'm not capable of that kind of acting in the bedroom. If my H wanted me to fake-it & do the naughtiest things were ever done it would be very damaging to our relationship. I'd feel controlled, used & abused in our relationship.

 

You want to feel close to your wife. Would it really be 'faking it' for you to do some bonding things outside of the bedroom?

 

I know that when your heart has been broken is like you've been attacked, it's war & you don't feel you should have to 'GIVE' because she's taken so much.

That's understandable & justified BUT you don't want divorce...you need to know you've given it your best shot... That requires 'Giving' not just waiting months for her to surrender to your needs & if she doesn't you've tried! Trying takes some sacrifice & a lot of work. Together.

 

Does that make sense?

[ShatteredLady]

Did she do 'those' things...making videos, porn-star sex (as we call it. Ugh!) with the OM or is it just what you feel you need to 'over-write' the mind movies?

 

What did their A consist of? Was it mostly wooing & then a couple of sexual encounters that made her run away? What exactly made her leave him & confess to you?

 

Understanding her, before, during & after could help a lot in reconciliation.

 

I keep coming back to 'She did give a lot to reconciliation for the first 3 months.' Things have drastically changed. I know that hysterical bonding runs its course but she NEEDED you to erase the video!?! She pulled away & moved into the spare room.

 

Out of interest... What is SHE saying she needs now?

 

It will be interesting to see what she says in MC.

[turnera]

Have you had complete access to all of her computers/phones/accounts including banking info for the past several months?

 

I'd bet money she is still in contact with her OM.

 

She says no but her inaction shows she is still stuck on him and not considering you at all.

 

Sorry to say that - but it always looks this way when the cheater isn't remorseful and still trying to figure out how to reignite the passion lost when the affair ends - even IF they say no - many times they are still chasing the OM.

I disagree. If she was doing all this the first three months and then it tapered away, what she was left with was a horrified, needy, obsessed, near-suicidal husband, from whom she had retreated long ago - by his own admission.

 

So she gave him that for three months, and yet she wasn't seeing anything different in the marriage from before! She gave up OM but then looked back at the marriage and nothing had changed for her.

 

Now before you jump on my case, I get it, she's the harlot, blast away, forever a POS, I get it.

 

But he's here asking WHY she can't be emotionally connected to him, WHY she can't jump his bones with the ferocity he assumes she gave to OM.

 

And we are here TELLING him why. Her inability or refusal to go 'all in' with him has little to do with the affair; now that it's 8 months out, she's back looking at the husband she had long ago pulled away from. All the same reasons she pulled away are still there - actually magnified because of his grief and coping and desires and judgment.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Quote - "The question I keep asking myself is this.... Why could this not be "naturally" coming out of her? I think of occasions in our marriage during which she did naturally (although shyly) approach me for her sexual needs. On some occasions (way earlier in our marriage) she also wanted to naturally be kinky with me. So, I ask myself,.... What has changed now?"

 

 

For many women to be completely 'free' sexually they need to feel VERY safe & confident. She wasn't doing it 'just for you'. She was like that when she truly felt it.

 

I think she felt happy with making the video because she trusted you through the 'hysterical bonding'. She made you delete those films & she moved into the spare bedroom for a reason. She stopped trusting you! Was it telling your family or was it the controlling, abuse she talks of.

 

When women talk about control & abuse they're not talking about 'not paying 1/2 of the utility bills.'

 

For reconciliation you need to answer these things. I know it's incredibly hard. I truly do.

 

 

I haven't asked... Is your wife American?

 

Thanks very much for that useful insight on a woman's psyche. It only helps me understand my wife better.

 

From all my conversations with her, it seems that what suddenly changed her "support" is my trip back, overseas. When I returned, there was a distinct change in her behavior and she says it was because I told some of my own family about what had happened. I used to break down in front of mother, crying and it was not possible to hide the truth from her, among a few other family members. I told her it was not intentional, and we had even talked about this possibly happening. Before my trip, she has even asked me if I was "planning" to tell my mother and I honestly told her that I wasn't "planning" to, but there was a strong likelihood that it would happen (which even she agreed that it was likely to happen, given my messed up emotional state and pain). She said she simply wanted to know so that she could adjust her own behavior with my mother to possibly reflect the fact that she know about her affair. (She probably wanted to "appear" more remorseful than "normal", to my mother if my mother was going to find out). On a few occasions, she did mention that I had broken her trust by telling some family members (and posting anonamously on a forum), and then later, she told me that she "forgave me" for doing so.

 

In terms of the control and abuse, I understand that she was not only talking about not paying 1/2 the expenses. She was referring to the financial control in terms of decisions about expenses being something that I handled. Now, to reverse her false perception, she handles decisions about her own money and what she wants to spend on. That way, I cannot be held accountable or even blamed for "controlling her" through financial boundaries. If she messes things up, she would be wasting her own money. I have insisted on an arrangement in which she cannot decide how I spend my money, and can exercise her full right (and responsibility) to spend her own money. This should solve all perception problems.

I know that money can be a big cause of conflict (or rather how to spend and how much to spend), and it certainly was for us. So, we seem to have eliminated that cause of conflict to address our relationship before the affair, however, what she does not understand is that it does not "resolve" the affair in any way for me, which is still a permanent "mental illness" that has been caused for me.

 

My wife and I am Asian Indian by ethnicity.

[turnera]

Thanks very much for that useful insight on a woman's psyche. It only helps me understand my wife better.

 

From all my conversations with her, it seems that what suddenly changed her "support" is my trip back, overseas. When I returned, there was a distinct change in her behavior and she says it was because I told some of my own family about what had happened.

That's what I figured. If she were just a typical selfish wife who cheated, I'd say 'who cares who you told, she deserved it.' But there's more background to your situation. So she came to you, remorseful, did what you asked, made herself VERY vulnerable even though you'd taught her previously that she needed to protect herself from you...and then you ran home and told your mommy about her. Anyone else but your mother. Not hard to understand.

 

I know that money can be a big cause of conflict (or rather how to spend and how much to spend), and it certainly was for us. So, we seem to have eliminated that cause of conflict to address our relationship before the affair, however, what she does not understand is that it does not "resolve" the affair in any way for me, which is still a permanent "mental illness" that has been caused for me.

You keep saying this as if you just saying 'here, spend your own money' instantly REMOVES the pain and shame and distrust she's felt throughout your marriage; it doesn't. When she looks at you, she still SEES the man who believed she was too dumb to handle the money. In YOUR mind, hey, it's solved, right? In HER mind, she doesn't even believe you DO trust her; you're just doing it because you want hot sexy strange in bed from her.

 

Kind of like you griping about her expecting you to be 'over it' with the affair; you're expecting HER to be 'over it' about the controlling.

 

Minds don't work that way, do they? They take time to adapt and adjust, don't they?

Edited January 4, 2016 by turnera

[Naively.Sensitive]

I disagree. If she was doing all this the first three months and then it tapered away, what she was left with was a horrified, needy, obsessed, near-suicidal husband, from whom she had retreated long ago - by his own admission.

 

So she gave him that for three months, and yet she wasn't seeing anything different in the marriage from before! She gave up OM but then looked back at the marriage and nothing had changed for her.

 

Now before you jump on my case, I get it, she's the harlot, blast away, forever a POS, I get it.

 

But he's here asking WHY she can't be emotionally connected to him, WHY she can't jump his bones with the ferocity he assumes she gave to OM.

 

And we are here TELLING him why. Her inability or refusal to go 'all in' with him has little to do with the affair; now that it's 8 months out, she's back looking at the husband she had long ago pulled away from. All the same reasons she pulled away are still there - actually magnified because of his grief and coping and desires and judgment.

 

In terms of things not being very different even after her 3 months of support.... There are things that were different in my response and things that were not.

 

What became a little different (as a result of the efforts in those first 3 months):

 

1) I was able to "accept" that this may have just been a "mistake" on her part and she did not really "love" this man.

2) I was able to support her too, in her own pain of guilt, by talking to her, hugging her and assuring her that things would eventually work out.

3) I was able to stay emotionally connected to her and bond with her, so that I could begin to reestablish trust in her. This was manifested in the number of times for which she would express her guilt (in words) to me and I would comfort her that she wasn't really a "bad" woman.

4) I was able to demonstrate that I wanted to repair the relationship and stay married to her (I did not ask her to leave the house or make a choice to leave)

5) I had progressed to further stages of reconciliation, with an "expectation" that things would eventually work out. I was appreciative of all her efforts and support.

 

What stayed the same (after the efforts of those first 3 months):

 

1) I still suffered in a lot of pain, everyday, crying profusely every morning. I needed help and words of encouragement, hugs, time spent together and sex to be able to function in a daily context.

2) I still had some bouts of anger, where I would want to disconnect from her (and my anger manifests itself in terms of passive aggression and silence)

3) I still needed external support of family and some good friends, to be able to "talk" about my pain, and find remedies on how to deal with the pain, shock and horror of this incredibly traumatic event.

 

Now, after she withdrew her support, 1-3 and 5 have disappeared or massively been depleted (from the difference this support made), whereas 1-3 have remained the exact same problems (from what did not change, post her 3 month support).

 

If she would have continued her support beyond those 3 months, I'm fairly confident that I would have been much much further ahead and possibly even gotten over her affair by now.

As a result of her withdrawing the support, things have become worse for me, as I indicated above.

 

I can see that she maybe feeling that I'm the same husband, now with added pain, and suffering. Which is why we have primarily (95% of the time after the first 3 months), been addressing our relationship issues before the affair. Was how she felt about me clouded by any perception problems on her part? If it was (financial control), here you go.... I made the changes to correct those perceptions.... My anger and her fear of my anger?.... Here you go, I have made changes to correct that.....

 

Now the relevant questions/issues that we discuss are:

1) How does she feel about me NOW? (Since the reasons for pulling away are no longer there presently)

2) My pain and suffering from her actions are VERY real and VERY severe. Obviously this is not part of my personality (from 15 years of marriage history), so it "should" obviously reduce, IF she supports, helps me and is compassionate, loving and goes the extra mile to help me overcome the trauma caused by her having sex with another man.

[Naively.Sensitive]

That's what I figured. If she were just a typical selfish wife who cheated, I'd say 'who cares who you told, she deserved it.' But there's more background to your situation. So she came to you, remorseful, did what you asked, made herself VERY vulnerable even though you'd taught her previously that she needed to protect herself from you...and then you ran home and told your mommy about her. Anyone else but your mother. Not hard to understand.

 

You keep saying this as if you just saying 'here, spend your own money' instantly REMOVES the pain and shame and distrust she's felt throughout your marriage; it doesn't. When she looks at you, she still SEES the man who believed she was too dumb to handle the money. In YOUR mind, hey, it's solved, right? In HER mind, she doesn't even believe you DO trust her; you're just doing it because you want hot sexy strange in bed from her.

 

Kind of like you griping about her expecting you to be 'over it' with the affair; you're expecting HER to be 'over it' about the controlling.

 

Minds don't work that way, do they? They take time to adapt and adjust, don't they?

 

Yes, I admit that she must have felt mistrust too when I told my mother, but remember, I was in so much pain, I was all alone (away from her), and my mother (who gave me birth, the closest person to me in my childhood years) was one of the only one there who saw me crying profusely and did not know why. There were some reasons why she was also "angry" with me for not being mentally "present" to address another family tragic event related to my older brother's sudden health challenge.

I'm not disregarding what she must have felt. I'm just trying to figure out how to fix things for both of us.

 

In terms of the financial control, we made the major change (her independence of deciding what she spends on) over 5 months ago, so she has had 5 months of that reassurance that my sense of financial "discipline" was not more important than her sense of "financial freedom".

Not sure how much longer it would take for her to change her perceptions.

Again, this only addresses the relationship before her affair, but my actions of "postponing dealing" with the affair to first address the relationship before the affair are proving more and more painful for me, everyday, as my suffering and anxiety seem to increase, everyday. Does she appreciate or even recognize this fact? The fact that I'm choosing to suffer in return for her feeling of "comfort" and "security" in a relationship with me?

[HereNorThere]

We can sit and beat a dead horse, victim blame, etc but it's only because your mind is still looking for answers and she refuses to give them to you. I have to give her credit, I've never seen a BS so successfully blame shift something this horrendous. So where are we now? Now she's pushing you away for seeking advice from your family? Do you think for one second that if the roles were reversed, she wouldn't have sought advice from all her family and friends? Would anyone have blamed her if she did? It's cruel that she would expect you to keep this bottled up inside and help her hide what she did to you. Just another example of how absolutely selfish she is. You seek advice from family and get bashed, she starts a completely new life with another man and you're supposed to support it. Does that make a damn bit of sense to you all?

 

I think some people on this thread just don't want to admit that people change. The person that was there when your child was born may not even exist anymore. I've watched beautiful, chipper young women grow into bitter, grumpy old women and the same with men. Our personalities are based billions of microscopic neurons that send chemical and electrochemical signals throughout them. The slightest bit of change in your bodies can lead us to becoming completely different people. Sometimes the person in front of you only represents who they were at one point in space-time and we have long since traveled past that point. Scientifically, you literally aren't the same person because we periodically change our molecules. Democrats become republicans, some men and women become the opposite gender, people even change sexualites and start dating the same sex. We change, period.

 

Sometimes you need to accept the idea of the death of someone even if their physical body is sticking along because your idea of who they are is gone. Maybe it's just a natural change in their brain chemistry, maybe it's hormonal, maybe it's mental illness, but either way - would you have married this "monster?" I use the term because she projected it onto her boss, but she's just as guilty or more, so she should also hold herself just as accountable. She is a monster, but I'm not sure she is capable of coming to terms with it. Like you, she wonders why she's changed so much and can't go back. She lacks the capacity for introspection and empathy that one would need to truly grasp her Freudian idea of self, ego, super ego, id, etc.

 

I still think she has feelings for him or at least wants to play the field. It's also very suspect that she drastically changed when you went overseas. You must have known they would use that time for a last few meet ups. That's like leaving your drug addicted teenage daughter at home and saying "don't use any drugs while I'm out of the country, promise?" It's not your fault because you were just holding her to the standard you held her to previously. Hopefully you've learned better.

 

This was not one incident. No, she started a new life without you. She's living it now and just trying to figure out how to get your out of her business without destroying her reputation. Maybe OM has promised he's going to save her one day. Maybe she's looking for someone else to save her. All I know is that you aren't included on this part of her journey and never will be. Why can't you just accept it and move on? She's given you no reason to think otherwise.

Edited January 4, 2016 by HereNorThere

[turnera]

I am not excusing her not doing the hard work. I'm only trying to answer your questions about why she's possibly not doing it.

 

The only REAL solution is to get her in front of a MC and make it clear that she either gets real with you or you will be giving up. And then if she still refuses - with the help of a therapist - you will likely have to give up.

[Naively.Sensitive]

She has no right to be angry that you told family!

 

She can get over it! IF she hadn't cheated = there would be nothing to tell. These are normal and expected consequences for bad behavior = which she did do.

 

She's mad she got caught. That's completely different than any person that's truly sorry they cheated.

 

I agree with the first part. Its like getting mad if a ball you throw up in the air comes back on you.

What she fails to see is the desperate amount of support I needed from friends and family. Initially, she seemed to perceive that I told some people in an effort to seek out revenge or to punish her in some way. The reality is that I'm a broken man, and this is the least I needed to be able to fend myself from those painful thoughts that cut through my being.

 

I also admit that because of her misperception of me trying to seek revenge, she probably felt a major loss of trust, but even common sense should suggest who should be the one with bigger trust issues.

 

She either thinks I'm stupid enough to give her loss of trust greater importance than my loss of trust (just by mentioning it to me), or she lacks enough common sense to compare my loss of trust with her loss of trust.

 

She is probably mad that now her secret is out and some more people know. But that only proves to me that she cares more about her reputation than our relationship. Maybe she now feels "bounded" to make the relationship work because if she goes out to seek any other relationships among the people who know, they may not accept her. Maybe it narrows her choice of people who may support her (emotionally), because more people know? And that she may have no choices except to come back to me for her support? (And this may make her feel more controlled than she already did?)

[ShatteredLady]

HereNorThere.

 

There's nothing said here that she's still cheating or wanting to.

 

Sometimes people do drastically change in a short period of time (mental illness, breakdown, head injury etc.) most change is a very slow thing. Most people are fundamentally the same person as they were by the time they hit about 30. Obviously not exactly the same, life & experience changes us.

 

I don't see where she's become a 'monster'.

 

Infidelity (the cruelty that accompanies it for me) is the hardest thing that I've ever experienced. Part of that is my fundamental character, that mess of nature & nurture that makes me, ME.

 

I'm NOT sticking with my H because I'm blind, confused or frightened of change. I've given all of this a lot of thought. Analyzed all of my options. Made my plans.

 

If I had chosen divorce it would be VERY different. I understand why some people decide that they can't take reconciliation. I believe there's no right or wrong in that basic choice. (With obvious exceptions).

 

Once the choice is made....Reconciliation or divorce....The way we act, work, plan, interact MUST be different.

 

I WANT reconciliation. That's what I want for me & my family. The OP has said the same. To get WHAT WE WANT we have to work & analyze. It might appear to those who draw the line (consider nothing but divorce) that we're being weak or driving ourselves crazy overthinking things but I believe it's all part of the journey.

 

My journey may still lead to divorce. That's my prerogative.

 

I'm not capable of simply pretending the adultery never happened so analyzing, thinking, analyzing some more, working, thinking again AND again is my only option to get what I WANT at the moment.

[HereNorThere]

Can we just stop it with the "she was feeling controlled" idea? No woman with enough freedom to keep all the money she makes, a boyfriend AND husband and her own bedroom is feeling controlled. When will you see that's just the best excuse she could come up with? They rationalize because it's so much easier than saying "I'm a crappy person who does crappy things to the people I love." It's the equivalent of an abusive husband saying "why do you make me hit you?"

 

YOU ARE THE LEAST CONTROLLING SPOUSE IVE EVER SEEN. You literally have no control and obviously never have. The truth is that you needed more control over the marriage, not less. Just stop it with that non-sense. It's a slide of hand, a distraction to keep you questioning yourself. Quit letting her do that to you.

[Naively.Sensitive]

We can sit and beat a dead horse, victim blame, etc but it's only because your mind is still looking for answers and she refuses to give them to you. I have to give her credit, I've never seen a BS so successfully blame shift something this horrendous. So where are we now? Now she's pushing you away for seeking advice from your family? Do you think for one second that if the roles were reversed, she wouldn't have sought advice from all her family and friends? Would anyone have blamed her if she did? It's cruel that she would expect you to keep this bottled up inside and help her hide what she did to you. Just another example of how absolutely selfish she is. You seek advice from family and get bashed, she starts a completely new life with another man and you're supposed to support it. Does that make a damn bit of sense to you all?

 

I think some people on this thread just don't want to admit that people change. The person that was there when your child was born may not even exist anymore. I've watched beautiful, chipper young women grow into bitter, grumpy old women and the same with men. Our personalities are based billions of microscopic neurons that send chemical and electrochemical signals throughout them. The slightest bit of change in your bodies can lead us to becoming completely different people. Sometimes the person in front of you only represents who they were at one point in space-time and we have long since traveled past that point. Scientifically, you literally aren't the same person because we periodically change our molecules. Democrats become republicans, some men and women become the opposite gender, people even change sexualites and start dating the same sex. We change, period.

 

Sometimes you need to accept the idea of the death of someone even if their physical body is sticking along because your idea of who they are is gone. Maybe it's just a natural change in their brain chemistry, maybe it's hormonal, maybe it's mental illness, but either way - would you have married this "monster?" I use the term because she projected it onto her boss, but she's just as guilty or more, so she should also hold herself just as accountable. She is a monster, but I'm not sure she is capable of coming to terms with it. Like you, she wonders why she's changed so much and can't go back. She lacks the capacity for introspection and empathy that one would need to truly grasp her Freudian idea of self, ego, super ego, id, etc.

 

I still think she has feelings for him or at least wants to play the field. It's also very suspect that she drastically changed when you went overseas. You must have known they would use that time for a last few meet ups. That's like leaving your drug addicted teenage daughter at home and saying "don't use any drugs while I'm out of the country, promise?" It's not your fault because you were just holding her to the standard you held her to previously. Hopefully you've learned better.

 

This was not one incident. No, she started a new life without you. She's living it now and just trying to figure out how to get your out of her business without destroying her reputation. Maybe OM has promised he's going to save her one day. Maybe she's looking for someone else to save her. All I know is that you aren't included on this part of her journey and never will be. Why can't you just accept it and move on? She's given you no reason to think otherwise.

 

Yes, people do change. And people do behave in ways that you would LEAST expect them to. The last person I expected to cheat was my own wife!!

Time will tell (in the next few weeks) on how reconciliation progresses. In the last couple of days I have seen a bigger effort on her part, but not nearly enough. I just don't want to destroy any efforts that she does make towards making it work. One thing is clear, that she is not "desperate" to make the relationship work. If that is the case, then maybe the relationship is dead already, no matter what efforts seem to "trickle" out from her.

In either case, it would be prudent for me to prepare for divorce, as that is a very real and possible outcome of all this.

 

People use the word "faith" for any outcome that you strive for, but "faith" alone can do nothing if reality shows you something else. The reality of her behavior and actions and are far from what I would expect from a wife who betrayed her husband and frankly far from how I visualized her as the person she used to be. One of the reasons I don't want to pressurize or push her is because I want to continue to see what her "natural" behavior is. Coercing even the woman who I previously loved with all my heart, under a gun, is neither part of my true spirit, nor will produce the desired, long-term, sustained outcome that I desire. I may now start posting on a divorce forum to begin to gather advice on how to choose a lawyer who is reasonably priced and who can give me the advice for course of action that is best for myself.

[HereNorThere]

HereNorThere.

 

There's nothing said here that she's still cheating or wanting to.

 

Sometimes people do drastically change in a short period of time (mental illness, breakdown, head injury etc.) most change is a very slow thing. Most people are fundamentally the same person as they were by the time they hit about 30. Obviously not exactly the same, life & experience changes us.

 

I don't see where she's become a 'monster'.

 

Infidelity (the cruelty that accompanies it for me) is the hardest thing that I've ever experienced. Part of that is my fundamental character, that mess of nature & nurture that makes me, ME.

 

I'm NOT sticking with my H because I'm blind, confused or frightened of change. I've given all of this a lot of thought. Analyzed all of my options. Made my plans.

 

If I had chosen divorce it would be VERY different. I understand why some people decide that they can't take reconciliation. I believe there's no right or wrong in that basic choice. (With obvious exceptions).

 

Once the choice is made....Reconciliation or divorce....The way we act, work, plan, interact MUST be different.

 

I WANT reconciliation. That's what I want for me & my family. The OP has said the same. To get WHAT WE WANT we have to work & analyze. It might appear to those who draw the line (consider nothing but divorce) that we're being weak or driving ourselves crazy overthinking things but I believe it's all part of the journey.

 

My journey may still lead to divorce. That's my prerogative.

 

I'm not capable of simply pretending the adultery never happened so analyzing, thinking, analyzing some more, working, thinking again AND again is my only option to get what I WANT at the moment.

 

I didn't come up with the term monster, she did. I'm just holding her to own standards. She called her affair partner, a person who did EXACTLY what she did, a monster, so by her standards, she's a monster. A monster and hypocrite if we want to get technical.

 

The difference is that your husband WANTS to reconcile. He didn't move out of the bedroom. He is still actively making amends and doing damage control. Your situation and OPs are night and day.

 

Also, men are a lot easier at just getting a little like action and moving on. Still just as cruel, but men are just that way. That's why strip clubs, massage parlors, porn, etc are geared towards men. We're just different than women when it comes to emotional attachment to sex. If OPs wife just wanted a little selfish adventure like your husband did, she wouldn't be sleeping in a different room and trying to keep him quiet. This was a life changing event to her. She mentally split from him and she's never going back.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Can we just stop it with the "she was feeling controlled" idea? No woman with enough freedom to keep all the money she makes, a boyfriend AND husband and her own bedroom is feeling controlled. When will you see that's just the best excuse she could come up with? They rationalize because it's so much easier than saying "I'm a crappy person who does crappy things to the people I love." It's the equivalent of an abusive husband saying "why do you make me hit you?"

 

YOU ARE THE LEAST CONTROLLING SPOUSE IVE EVER SEEN. You literally have no control and obviously never have. The truth is that you needed more control over the marriage, not less. Just stop it with that non-sense. It's a slide of hand, a distraction to keep you questioning yourself. Quit letting her do that to you.

 

She may use that excuse for the state of the relationship before the affair, and I can accept that she may have felt controlled (even though it was not my intent to control her). That is why I made some changes so I could address the relationship.

 

There is no excuse like this that I accept for her choice of going into the affair, even if it was not her initiative to look for an affair. She knows that I don't buy that excuse at all. The real work of reconciliation regarding the affair probably starts now, once the relationship issues before the affair have already been addressed. I'm basically striping off every excuse she may have to blame the affair on the state of the relationship (which was admittedly bad)

[66Charger]

10 characters.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Quote -

"One point she brought up during some honest conversations a few days ago, is that it did not feel "natural" to her to do these things because she did not feel "wooed" enough by me."

 

 

I think that most women who aren't feeling the passion would say these things.

 

I know that I need my brain to be 'wooed' for my body to respond. I need to feel safe, loved & cherished (all the soft romantic things & attention OUTSIDE the bedroom) before I feel naughty & free to express my wild side in the bedroom.

 

I could never be a call-girl. I'm not capable of that kind of acting in the bedroom. If my H wanted me to fake-it & do the naughtiest things were ever done it would be very damaging to our relationship. I'd feel controlled, used & abused in our relationship.

 

You want to feel close to your wife. Would it really be 'faking it' for you to do some bonding things outside of the bedroom?

 

I know that when your heart has been broken is like you've been attacked, it's war & you don't feel you should have to 'GIVE' because she's taken so much.

That's understandable & justified BUT you don't want divorce...you need to know you've given it your best shot... That requires 'Giving' not just waiting months for her to surrender to your needs & if she doesn't you've tried! Trying takes some sacrifice & a lot of work. Together.

 

Does that make sense?

 

ShatteredLady,

 

I understand that under normal circumstances everything you said is true. I understand women (and my wife) enough that it would be stupid to expect her to be naughty with me if she did not feel the connection outside of the bedroom. I myself, could never be intimate with her in the bedroom without the emotional connection outside the bedroom, under normal circumstances.

 

My question is this.... Under the circumstances of what she did and her affair, would it be possible for her to feel that she "owes" me the "effort" needed to build that intimacy?

Would it be possible that she feels like she should "woo" me or persuade me or convince me that she truly wants me?

What I mean to ask is this.... Given that she (and even I) am NOT capable of intimate sex without building the connection, the intimacy, the romance and the foreplay first, is it not possible for her to woo me?

Even in normal circumstances, I have seen women pursue men (although statistically and physiologically speaking thats usually the man's job).

Under these circumstances would she be feeling that she "owes" me or that she needs to reduce her guilt by taking all the initiatives (not just the sex), to "woo" me back?

 

I mean what could/would stop HER from arranging a surprise candle light dinner or writing poetry for me or giving me a surprise "kiss" by sneaking up on me?

 

Can't women pursue men?

 

The reason I ask is this: I am not able to do all these things because I really feel like I am faking it under the circumstances of her affair, my pain and my loss of feelings for her.

 

Is it not possible for her to "resurrect" my feelings back for her by wooing me?

 

You are right..... I do feel "used" and feel like I'm giving too much (even giving what I really don't have) if I even think about wooing her, let alone try to woo her back.

 

Another question is this..... What do you think about HER needs? Do you think HER needs for the emotional reconnection back with me may not be strong enough for her to "go all out" and try to get me back?

There is a saying in love that says that its better to "have lost in love than to never have loved at all". If she truly does love me (in the present), why wouldn't she risk "losing in love"? Can women also have "egos" big enough to prevent them from being vulnerable and "giving it their best shot"?

As a man, I certainly don't have an ego big enough to prevent me from pursuing a woman I'm really "in love with". With a very old college friend, I remember doing insane and ridiculously romantic things (and being completely vulnerable) to prove that I loved her.

 

Or could it be that she does not have enough and strong feelings for me to make a commensurate effort?

How could I accurately find the honest answer to this question? (without her manipulating it)

[turnera]

The thing about cheaters is that they have to know they are on thin ice, in order to put aside their selfishness or self-centeredness, because they have to know if they DON'T keep concentrating on earning you back, well, YOU WILL LEAVE.

 

Which is why I keep pushing to get this out in front of a therapist who will make it CLEAR for her that she IS in fact on thin ice. Your complacency allowed her to replace her fear of losing you with toenail-gazing.

 

Of course, once you're there, you DO still have to listen to her side of why she would or wouldn't want to stay in the marriage. If you discover it's only because of money or saving face, then you know what to do. But if she just needs a kick in the butt to get motivated to fix things, then let her.

[ShatteredLady]

A few women here (myself included) have been very concerned by the way you talk about sex. I'm not really addressing 'making love'. You've said on several occasions that what you demand is 'way out there, full-on hot porn passion, extreme kink sex etc.

 

You've said that you are prone to react with extreme anger if she tries to hold you or even hold your hand. You've talked about being very passive aggressive etc.

 

My husband used to say to me that I wasn't making him feel 'special' when I was home from the hospital. When I tried to address this his response was,

 

"If you love me you would know what to do. If I have to tell you you would be doing things because I told you & NOT because you love me...so I won't tell you!!"

 

I truly didn't know what he wanted from me. It was a crazy situation!!

I know I'm a bs & she's a WS but at the time I didn't know about the ow. I was just a woman being told that my health & lack of 'special' was making him consider divorce. It's incredibly hard to do 'the right thing' when you're in emotional turmoil & NEED to be told what to do.

 

That's all I was saying....

[DAO]

 

 

How could I accurately find the honest answer to this question? (without her manipulating it)

 

 

 

Only,by letting things go,one will possess what is real.

 

However....

 

Can you handle the truth ?

[Ladyjane14]

ShatteredLady,

 

I understand that under normal circumstances everything you said is true. I understand women (and my wife) enough that it would be stupid to expect her to be naughty with me if she did not feel the connection outside of the bedroom. I myself, could never be intimate with her in the bedroom without the emotional connection outside the bedroom, under normal circumstances.

 

My question is this.... Under the circumstances of what she did and her affair, would it be possible for her to feel that she "owes" me the "effort" needed to build that intimacy?

Would it be possible that she feels like she should "woo" me or persuade me or convince me that she truly wants me?

What I mean to ask is this.... Given that she (and even I) am NOT capable of intimate sex without building the connection, the intimacy, the romance and the foreplay first, is it not possible for her to woo me?

Even in normal circumstances, I have seen women pursue men (although statistically and physiologically speaking thats usually the man's job).

Under these circumstances would she be feeling that she "owes" me or that she needs to reduce her guilt by taking all the initiatives (not just the sex), to "woo" me back?

 

I mean what could/would stop HER from arranging a surprise candle light dinner or writing poetry for me or giving me a surprise "kiss" by sneaking up on me?

 

Can't women pursue men?

 

The reason I ask is this: I am not able to do all these things because I really feel like I am faking it under the circumstances of her affair, my pain and my loss of feelings for her.

 

Is it not possible for her to "resurrect" my feelings back for her by wooing me?

 

You are right..... I do feel "used" and feel like I'm giving too much (even giving what I really don't have) if I even think about wooing her, let alone try to woo her back.

 

Another question is this..... What do you think about HER needs? Do you think HER needs for the emotional reconnection back with me may not be strong enough for her to "go all out" and try to get me back?

There is a saying in love that says that its better to "have lost in love than to never have loved at all". If she truly does love me (in the present), why wouldn't she risk "losing in love"? Can women also have "egos" big enough to prevent them from being vulnerable and "giving it their best shot"?

As a man, I certainly don't have an ego big enough to prevent me from pursuing a woman I'm really "in love with". With a very old college friend, I remember doing insane and ridiculously romantic things (and being completely vulnerable) to prove that I loved her.

 

Or could it be that she does not have enough and strong feelings for me to make a commensurate effort?

How could I accurately find the honest answer to this question? (without her manipulating it)

 

I refer you back to your other thread Here where you shot down her overtures half the time.

 

You know, Turnera and Shattered Lady have been giving you great advice all day... but you just keep coming back to this business about how your formerly wayward wife should be chasing you down for hot sex. I mean, is this what she's dealing with at home?... because YOU DON'T LISTEN.

 

Yeah.. you got hurt, so did I, so did Shattered Lady, so did just about everyone here. But cheating doesn't automatically turn a woman into a prostitute, and that's what you're talking about essentially. When the emotional connection isn't there and she's putting out just to shut you up, she's prostituting herself. You can't call that love when you're asking your spouse to prostitute herself for ANY reason.

 

More often than not, affairs are about connecting emotionally and illicit sex is a by-product of that. Maybe YOU should have an affair... with your wife. Maybe YOU should be the guy she runs to, feels safe with, and gets excited to talk to at the end of the day. Ask yourself... who wants to do all that stuff with a sad-sack? What was she getting out there that she can't get at home?

 

The bulk of our angst is being on the fence. Get off the fence... one side or the other, then put your effort behind that decision. If you want to stay married, fine. Do that, and put the work in. If you want a divorce?.. hey, she cheated... thems the breaks. But pick one. It's all emotional turmoil until you do.

[HereNorThere]

OP is just confusing love and sex. Like somehow if she initiates this mind blowing, ultra-uninhibited sex it will prove that she actually loves him. He really hasn't accepted his current situation at all.

 

The part I don't understand is how in the world do you expect this to happen with someone who can't stand your sight for the most part? You disgust her so much she will not even sleep in the same room with you and you expect this porno style sex? Are we on the same planet?

 

In your fantasy, do you actually record her walking back to her room when its done? Is the last scene just you laying in in bed alone while she goes back to her room? Would you be okay with a little role-playing? Maybe you can pretend to be the big bad married Manager alpha male and she can be the poor little subordinate that doesn't have her reports in in time. That should definitely preheat the oven a little bit.

 

Just shaking my head over here, ugh.

[TX-SC]

Really, you both need some serious counceling and then you need marriage counseling, and then you need a sex counselor. Once all of that is done, go back to the IC again. At that point you guyscan start to mend.

[road]

ShatteredLady,

 

I understand that under normal circumstances everything you said is true. I understand women (and my wife) enough that it would be stupid to expect her to be naughty with me if she did not feel the connection outside of the bedroom. I myself, could never be intimate with her in the bedroom without the emotional connection outside the bedroom, under normal circumstances.

 

My question is this.... Under the circumstances of what she did and her affair, would it be possible for her to feel that she "owes" me the "effort" needed to build that intimacy?

Would it be possible that she feels like she should "woo" me or persuade me or convince me that she truly wants me?

What I mean to ask is this.... Given that she (and even I) am NOT capable of intimate sex without building the connection, the intimacy, the romance and the foreplay first, is it not possible for her to woo me?

Even in normal circumstances, I have seen women pursue men (although statistically and physiologically speaking thats usually the man's job).

Under these circumstances would she be feeling that she "owes" me or that she needs to reduce her guilt by taking all the initiatives (not just the sex), to "woo" me back?

 

I mean what could/would stop HER from arranging a surprise candle light dinner or writing poetry for me or giving me a surprise "kiss" by sneaking up on me?

 

Can't women pursue men?

 

The reason I ask is this: I am not able to do all these things because I really feel like I am faking it under the circumstances of her affair, my pain and my loss of feelings for her.

 

Is it not possible for her to "resurrect" my feelings back for her by wooing me?

 

You are right..... I do feel "used" and feel like I'm giving too much (even giving what I really don't have) if I even think about wooing her, let alone try to woo her back.

 

Another question is this..... What do you think about HER needs? Do you think HER needs for the emotional reconnection back with me may not be strong enough for her to "go all out" and try to get me back?

There is a saying in love that says that its better to "have lost in love than to never have loved at all". If she truly does love me (in the present), why wouldn't she risk "losing in love"? Can women also have "egos" big enough to prevent them from being vulnerable and "giving it their best shot"?

As a man, I certainly don't have an ego big enough to prevent me from pursuing a woman I'm really "in love with". With a very old college friend, I remember doing insane and ridiculously romantic things (and being completely vulnerable) to prove that I loved her.

 

Or could it be that she does not have enough and strong feelings for me to make a commensurate effort?

How could I accurately find the honest answer to this question? (without her manipulating it)

 

 

This is not meant to be insulting or to attack you.

 

 

My opinion, but I believe it strong enough to call it fact. That if you put in the same effort to keep starting threads and posting in all of them into recovering your marriage you would be getting traction and getting somewhere.

 

 

It seems all your posting is about poor me. I other words crying into your beer. Instead you would be better off with this is happening how can I best tackle this situation and move the healing process along.

[BettyDraper]

You see - there's no basis for this marriage because she hasn't earned any trust.

 

You have nothing to work with. What do you think you can accomplish when you have nothing to work with?

 

Please answer that question.

 

 

You need serious help from a professional because you think monkey sex will fix this - it won't long term!

 

And you're still left with an untrustworthy wife even IF she decides to manipulate you further by having sex with you.

 

 

How about demanding honesty? How about a polygraph? How about kick her out so she gets uncomfortable enough to start taking responsibility for ruining your life and your marriage?

 

This. I don't know if continuing to post advice to the OP is helpful because he isn't listening. He just wants to keep believing that passionate sex and acting like a doormat will bring his wife back.