2 dead ex's - how do I get her to let me in?

[jasonkan]

I'm friends with this woman, I've known her for years (would see her a couple times a month with friends) but we've only been close for a year.

 

She dated a man for 4 years, had a son with him and he was killed in an accident when her son was 1 and she was 22. She was single for a long time and started dating another man when she was 25. They married 2 years later and he went on a deployment overseas shortly after. He was killed over there 4 months later. That was 3 years ago and she hasn't dated at all since.

 

Despite all that she's an amazing, strong woman. She takes awesome care of her 9 year old and 2 year old. She finished her Masters and has a career. I've always had a thing for her, since I met her 9-10 years ago. I've had a lot of other relationships but they never progressed past a year. There was always "mild" flirting here and there and it's like she'd catch herself and stop. I've been getting closer and closer to her over the last year and it's like I'm almost breaking through her walls then she puts them back up again.

 

How do I get her to let me in?

[Popsicle]

Just ask her to let you in.

[bluefeather]

we've only been close for a year.

 

Define "close." Is she pushing you away because of her history, or because she is not interested?

[jasonkan]

Define "close." Is she pushing you away because of her history, or because she is not interestd?

 

She's interested. She flirts obviously and a mutual friend said she is into me but "doesn't want to deal with it again". About a month ago she was upset because her kids don't have their dads and in conversation muttered " do you have a death wish ".

 

We go out together a couple times a month (movies, golf, hockey game, etc) and see eachother just to get coffee or hang out a couple times a week. We'll have a few good days were we'll hold hands, kiss, cuddle, etc. then she pulls back for a few weeks. Never progressed past kissing.

Edited December 15, 2015 by jasonkan

[bluefeather]

She's interested. She flirts obviously and a mutual friend said she is into me but "doesn't want to deal with it again". About a month ago she was upset because her kids don't have their dads and in conversation muttered " do you have a death wish ".

 

Then if she's worth it to you, I would keep trying. Be gentle with her, but also forward. Let her know how interested you are, and what you are wiling to do to try a relationship with her. This will most likely take a lot of understanding and patience on your side. Two deaths of partners sounds like a tragically hard wall to break down. Poor lady...

 

Keep trying.

[kitty12345]

We go out together a couple times a month (movies, golf, hockey game, etc) and see eachother just to get coffee or hang out a couple times a week. We'll have a few good days were we'll hold hands, kiss, cuddle, etc. then she pulls back for a few weeks. Never progressed past kissing.

 

Dude, you want to get into her pants. No wonder she has thick walls up. She is in a very emotional vulnerable state and many guys must be salivating after her,not just you. Duh !

[jasonkan]

Just ask her to let you in.

 

If it were that simple, I wouldn't be typing this right now. It's not like I haven't tried that, many times.

[jasonkan]

Just ask her to let you in.

 

If it were that simple, I wouldn't be typing this right now. It's not like I haven't tried that, many times.

 

Dude, you want to get into her pants. No wonder she has thick walls up. She is in a very emotional vulnerable state and many guys must be salivating after her,not just you. Duh !

 

Sure, I've been hung up on her for 9 years just so I can have sex with her. I have been in many relationships over the last decade (that all involved sex) and I still had her in the back of my mind. Not ****ing her, but being with her. Yes, there are other men interested in her (in our workplace at least) but from what I know and a mutual friend knows she isn't giving anyone else her time of day.

 

Then if she's worth it to you, I would keep trying. Be gentle with her, but also forward. Let her know how interested you are, and what you are wiling to do to try a relationship with her. This will most likely take a lot of understanding and patience on your side. Two deaths of partners sounds like a tragically hard wall to break down. Poor lady...

 

Keep trying.

 

She has said that she doesn't know why I'd want to be with someone who has two dead partners and two kids - from different dads (one from each) - when I can easily find someone else. When I tell her that I always have been interested in her she has said "me too" but then feels bad about it because she was in those two other relationships. I was friends with her first (of the two) ex, he was the one who brought her into our group of friends.

[Buddhist]

How do I get her to let me in?

 

What makes you think she should? The woman has experienced already twice in one lifetime what most people only have to go through once. If she doesn't want another relationship it's not for you to decide that she should, just because it satisfies your desires. How presumptuous can you get? She's amazingly strong, she's already healed herself and gone on etc. She probably is strong, but it's not for you to decide she's strong enough to have another go at the dead husband thing.

 

Honestly, let her go. She's had enough sadness for one lifetime. Stop trying to bring more grief to her door. She has her children, her career and a life she's made for herself. Leave her alone.

[jasonkan]

What makes you think she should? The woman has experienced already twice in one lifetime what most people only have to go through once. If she doesn't want another relationship it's no for you to decide that she should, just because it satisfies your desires. How presumptuous can you get? She's amazingly strong, she's already healed herself and gone on etc. She probably is strong, but it's not for you to decide she's strong enough to have another go at the dead husband thing.

 

Honestly, let her go. She's had enough sadness for one lifetime. Stop trying to bring more grief to her door. She has her children, her career and a life she's made for herself. Leave her alone.

 

It's not like I'mtrying to make s someone interested in me who is isn't. I know she is and she has said she is. She has said a few times that she misses a relationship and wants her kids to have a dad. But I don't know how long I wait for her to be OK with "us" and if not how to move on when I havent fully in 10 years.

Edited December 15, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
fixed code

[acrosstheuniverse]

It's been three years since the loss of her husband, that's not actually all that long. Especially when she's been trying to raise two kids alone, deal with their grief, she probably can't believe this has happened to her for a second time. Many people in her position would be swearing off relationships for life, not willing to risk going through the pain for a third time.

 

In short, there's nothing you can do to get her to let you in, other than express your interest. You say there's been 'mild flirting' and you feel like you're making progress but then she puts walls up, does she actually have any idea that you want to push things further? I know you say that she knows you're interested but doesn't know why you'd want her with two kids from two dads, but have you actually made any moves to like, ask her out on a date?

 

I think all you can do is be really upfront and tell her that you've been developing strong feelings for her and would love to explore where they can go, no pressure if things don't work out. That you respect, admire and really like her as a person and that you're not fazed by her history and see her kids as part of the package (that may seem a bit much coming from someone new she meets but if you've been friends for so long, surely you know the kids too by this point). And then invite her to dinner.

 

And listen to what she says, really listen. Don't interpret what she says in a way that makes it seem more palatable (if she says she's not ready to go there don' think that means 'I will be if you keep trying', if she says she doesn't have those feelings for you, believe her... don't think 'oh she's just so damaged she can't feel for anyone'). If she doesn't accept your invitation to dinner, you know where you stand then. You have nothing to lose, better to actually find out for sure now what the score is between you so you can move on and meet someone else, pining after her for years with so much unsaid isn't really going to get you anywhere.

[d0nnivain]

If you want her to let you in, you have to be patient. She lost two very important people to Death. This wasn't some childish break up.

 

 

If you don't see yourself waiting 5+ years, don't even bother.

 

 

She's not in a place where she wants a man. She may never want that again. You can't pressure her & it's cruel / selfish of you to try. This has to be her choice on her time frame.

 

 

I was with a woman last night who is 78. Her FI died when she was 25. She never wanted love again. She lived a fulfilling life.

[jen1447]

Just ask her to let you in.

If it were that simple, I wouldn't be typing this right now. It's not like I haven't tried that, many times.

What did she say?

[Glitters]

If she wants a relationship then it's going to take a lot of genuine care and effort from you for her to open up. It will be on her time frame , not yours. Are you ready to be a father figure ?

 

If she opens up and then goes back in her shell, then she is trying. Coming out of it is very difficult for her. If you are in rush , let it go.

[jasonkan]

It's been three years since the loss of her husband....

What did she say?

 

 

I have asked her on dates, I try not to ask too often. Maybe like once a month. But she always says no in one way or another (I don't want to get attached, don't want you to get hurt, etc.). So I say "well then lets just go (see a movie, go to a game, dinner etc.) as friends", and we do that a couple times a month. Almost every time it leads to hand holding, cuddling, kissing (I've never tried to go farther as she didn't show she wanted to). Then she pulls back doesn't really text back and at work (same building - hospital, totally different careers so we don't really see each other unless we mean to) she is really quiet or avoids me. Then in about a week or two it's back to normal.

 

I love her kids and I've told her that. I've been around for their entire lives, from the day both of them were born and I met them in the hospital. With the older child I went for the BF because we were friends, with the younger I was working already so I was already there and she invited me. I love all kids and I get along with them great. I was talking to her recently online and what she said went like...

 

"You were always there, in the background. I always had a thing for you, from the first time I met you - which I still remember. But I was with (first boyfriend) and you were his friend - you were going to be in his wedding party. Every time I saw you I'd get little butterflies that lasted for days after. I've never felt attracted to another man while in a relationship so it was confusing. I always felt a bit sad when you went into a new relationship. But I was with (first boyfriend) and I didn't even think you were interested, I felt like you were, but thought I was just making it up. After (first boyfriend) passed you were always still there, but just how it had been before. You never really knew my husband, it felt too weird to bring him around friends that were (first boyfriends) friends first. And it makes me think, would he have liked you, would he be happy with you raising his child instead of him. You held (my second child) the day he was born but my husband never had the chance, he didn't even know the gender or a name. You have been there for my children's entire lives, but their fathers haven't. It feels like cheating almost, on both of them. I don't know how (first boyfriends) family would react to me being in a relationship with his friend, or what friends would think. Or if they'd wonder if there was always something there and I betrayed him in some way. "

 

And there was some about having to protect her kids from getting hurt again, getting attached and making the right decisions for them. I understand her feelings. I personally do not have the same worries about people's opinions. But I can understand why she does.

 

She has also said that she is very self-conscious about sex, though I've assured her that I'm in no rush. She said (I didn't ask) that she's only had sex with (and even kissed, aside from me) the few men she's been in relationships with (3). She "assumes" that I've had sex with a lot more people than her (like 10x more, said she doesn't want to know how many) and it makes her nervous because shes "not very good". And that she is the type of person that can't help buy worry about it. From what I know, the BF didn't want to commit to marriage because of intimacy issues (what he told me before he died).

Edited December 15, 2015 by jasonkan

[jasonkan]

Note the post I wrote right above this one, on the previous page.

 

If she wants a relationship then it's going to take a lot of genuine care and effort from you for her to open up. It will be on her time frame , not yours. Are you ready to be a father figure ?

 

If she opens up and then goes back in her shell, then she is trying. Coming out of it is very difficult for her. If you are in rush , let it go.

 

So she's trying then it seems like? Based on the post I wrote right above this one? I am ready to be a father figure to her children. I have been careful not to overstep but I'd love to be more involved in their lives, and hers. I don't want to get too involved directly with them until I know where I stand with their mother, I don't want them getting hurt (especially the 9 year old).

 

I do want another child as well. Not to have my own "flesh and blood" I don't care about that. It's just something I want the chance to experience. I've told her that and she said she always wanted a big family but she's scared to have another and lose the dad (though the chance has to be so small) and be left with 3 (or more) kids from 3 different dads. It's not like she's a sl*t, she was in LTR or marriage, but she seems a bit self-conscious over it. She looks A LOT younger than she is, most people think she's around 22, and she said she gets a lot of stares or people asking if she's a nanny.

[Timshel]

Note the post I wrote right above this one, on the previous page.

 

 

 

So she's trying then it seems like? Based on the post I wrote right above this one? I am ready to be a father figure to her children. I have been careful not to overstep but I'd love to be more involved in their lives, and hers. I don't want to get too involved directly with them until I know where I stand with their mother, I don't want them getting hurt (especially the 9 year old).

 

I do want another child as well. Not to have my own "flesh and blood" I don't care about that. It's just something I want the chance to experience. I've told her that and she said she always wanted a big family but she's scared to have another and lose the dad (though the chance has to be so small) and be left with 3 (or more) kids from 3 different dads. It's not like she's a sl*t, she was in LTR or marriage, but she seems a bit self-conscious over it. She looks A LOT younger than she is, most people think she's around 22, and she said she gets a lot of stares or people asking if she's a nanny.

 

Dude, all of the above is your own agenda. I think that you mean well but you do have her in your sights.

 

She is not ready for you to be a significant person in her or her children's lives.

 

She may never want to have another child, she has two and both now without a father.

 

It is very easy as a single mother to feel self conscious....people make assumptions.....no ring, kids...mother must be.....nothing good.

 

You have lost me with the last part about how young she looks. To me this is a mute point except for your own vanity.

 

This woman having lost two husbands, having two children to raise and obviously very brave and focused....I would say that you may be overstepping your bounds with her and need to accept either friendship or nothing at all.

[jasonkan]

Dude, all of the above is your own agenda. I think that you mean well but you do have her in your sights.

 

She is not ready for you to be a significant person in her or her children's lives.

 

She may never want to have another child, she has two and both now without a father.

 

It is very easy as a single mother to feel self conscious....people make assumptions.....no ring, kids...mother must be.....nothing good.

 

You have lost me with the last part about how young she looks. To me this is a mute point except for your own vanity.

 

This woman having lost two husbands, having two children to raise and obviously very brave and focused....I would say that you may be overstepping your bounds with her and need to accept either friendship or nothing at all.

 

Maybe I'm just being stupid, but I don't see how it's on my own agenda? Maybe I'm just not saying what I mean clearly, or I'm being blind to my own actions.

 

She still wears her rings occasionally. She can't wear them at work for hygienic reasons and I've never noticed her wearing them when we go out, but I've seen her wearing them here and there. I've never asked about it, none of my business.

 

I didn't mean to be vain in regards to her looks. I meant that's something that she mentions that bothers her, is that people think she is much younger than she really is. And adding kids to that makes people think she is a very young, single mother. I went with her a couple weeks ago to a dentist appointments for her kids, she seemed embarrassed when she said they both had different last names than her and no father for contact info.

 

To me, it feels like I'm so close to getting her to let her walls down. But do outsiders, you probably have a better perspective. Maybe I'm wrong...

[acrosstheuniverse]

You ask her on dates, she won't go... you go out as friends, end up cuddling or holding hands, then she goes quiet on you for weeks...

 

I'm sorry to say I don't think it's likely to work out between you. It sounds like not only is she not ready to be serious with someone again, she has all these conflicting feelings about how her friends or family would handle her dating you, when you had this friendship with her late boyfriend. She'll probably be single for years until she's ready, then meet someone totally fresh and new with no links to her old life she feels comfortable exploring things with. But you've given it your best shot, you have made it clear you want her and to be part of her family, and she's not interested, she isn't biting.

 

So, move on.

[Glitters]

I guess she is holding back for the only reason as to people might assume that you both were going together while she was with her other partners. And of course , her kids are little.

 

Don't bring the kids into the picture yet. Not. At. All.

 

It seems she wants to come closer to you , even does, but then her fears take her back. Only time and investment can help her overcome these fears. She will learn that people will talk for a while but it's her life and she has all the right to live the way and with whom she wants to. The way I see it, she will require your emotional support , a lot of it , to overcome what people might say.

 

I had similar feelings when my current husband wanted to date me before my divorce was final. I didn't want people to think that I was having an affair during marriage etc. Her fears are legitimate but if you stand by her , and if she really wants to ,over a period of time , it will work out.

 

If she looks young , has young kids , is strong to have lived through it , etc , she sure is vulnerable and that also keeps her on guard. You need to be a support system. Can you ? It's a big responsibility.

 

That's what I understand from her words and more so , actions.

[acrosstheuniverse]

And adding kids to that makes people think she is a very young, single mother. I went with her a couple weeks ago to a dentist appointments for her kids, she seemed embarrassed when she said they both had different last names than her and no father for contact info.

 

What country do you live in? Strikes me as unusual that someone would find it embarrassing to say their kids both had different surnames to her and each other, it's so common this day and age. It's really nobody's business other than hers at all. It just goes to show why people shouldn't be so judgmental doesn't it. Whereas one narrow minded person might think 'loose young single Mother', not knowing that she's essentially twice widowed and doing the incredibly hard job of raising her kids alone.

 

I think you should be open to dating other people so you're not so intently focused on this girl and constantly trying to push things, wondering where it's going and so forth. If she genuinely does have interest in you romantically, perhaps it'll only be piqued when she realises that if she keeps pushing you away, eventually you'll stay away. But it should be for your own benefit to meet someone (you say you want kids!), not to play games.

[Glitters]

If she genuinely does have interest in you romantically, perhaps it'll only be piqued when she realises that if she keeps pushing you away, eventually you'll stay away. But it should be for your own benefit to meet someone (you say you want kids!), not to play games.

 

It will be game playing anywho! It will be cruel to her. If he decides to move on , then he moves on. Period

[Timshel]

Maybe I'm just being stupid, but I don't see how it's on my own agenda? Maybe I'm just not saying what I mean clearly, or I'm being blind to my own actions.

 

She still wears her rings occasionally. She can't wear them at work for hygienic reasons and I've never noticed her wearing them when we go out, but I've seen her wearing them here and there. I've never asked about it, none of my business.

 

I didn't mean to be vain in regards to her looks. I meant that's something that she mentions that bothers her, is that people think she is much younger than she really is. And adding kids to that makes people think she is a very young, single mother. I went with her a couple weeks ago to a dentist appointments for her kids, she seemed embarrassed when she said they both had different last names than her and no father for contact info.

 

To me, it feels like I'm so close to getting her to let her walls down. But do outsiders, you probably have a better perspective. Maybe I'm wrong...

 

You're not being stupid...you care. She is torn. If you tread, do so lightly and without expectation.

 

You sound like a good guy, if you are in this for the long haul then realize that it may be....a long haul.

 

My advice would be to remain friends but to continue to leave your heart open for other women. No rush/no hurry.

[jasonkan]

You ask her on dates, she won't go... you go out as friends, end up cuddling or holding hands, then she goes quiet on you for weeks...

 

I'm sorry to say I don't think it's likely to work out between you. It sounds like not only is she not ready to be serious with someone again, she has all these conflicting feelings about how her friends or family would handle her dating you, when you had this friendship with her late boyfriend. She'll probably be single for years until she's ready, then meet someone totally fresh and new with no links to her old life she feels comfortable exploring things with. But you've given it your best shot, you have made it clear you want her and to be part of her family, and she's not interested, she isn't biting.

 

So, move on.

 

Maybe you're right. I've had her in the back of my mind for 10 years, it could be hard to see the truth. It just feels so good and right when we do go out ("as friends") and end up cuddling and making out.

 

Do I have a talk with her and say that if she can't see herself ever being with me because I'm tied to her "old life" to tell me so I can move on? I wouldn't be able to see her anymore, friends or otherwise. It would be too hard.

 

 

I guess she is holding back for the only reason as to people might assume that you both were going together while she was with her other partners. And of course , her kids are little.

 

Don't bring the kids into the picture yet. Not. At. All.

 

It seems she wants to come closer to you , even does, but then her fears take her back. Only time and investment can help her overcome these fears. She will learn that people will talk for a while but it's her life and she has all the right to live the way and with whom she wants to. The way I see it, she will require your emotional support , a lot of it , to overcome what people might say.

 

I had similar feelings when my current husband wanted to date me before my divorce was final. I didn't want people to think that I was having an affair during marriage etc. Her fears are legitimate but if you stand by her , and if she really wants to ,over a period of time , it will work out.

 

If she looks young , has young kids , is strong to have lived through it , etc , she sure is vulnerable and that also keeps her on guard. You need to be a support system. Can you ? It's a big responsibility.

 

That's what I understand from her words and more so , actions.

 

I know I would stand by her side and support her through anything that people said or acted towards her. I don't think people who react as badly as she thinks they will. It's been 8 years since the first boyfriend died. If we were hiding something we wouldn't wait that long to come out. At least in my mind.

 

Perhaps I should tell friends that we're interested in each other, or that I'm at least interested in her.

 

What country do you live in? Strikes me as unusual that someone would find it embarrassing to say their kids both had different surnames to her and each other

 

In Canada. It is common people are just A-holes and make assumptions.

 

You're not being stupid...you care. She is torn. If you tread, do so lightly and without expectation.

 

You sound like a good guy, if you are in this for the long haul then realize that it may be....a long haul.

 

My advice would be to remain friends but to continue to leave your heart open for other women. No rush/no hurry.

 

My fear in dating other women is that she would lose trust in me. Or that it would make her more self-conscious. Or even, I'd find someone I am really into right when she's ready and it would be too late.

[jen1447]

I have asked her on dates, I try not to ask too often. Maybe like once a month. But she always says no in one way or another (I don't want to get attached, don't want you to get hurt, etc.). So I say "well then lets just go (see a movie, go to a game, dinner etc.) as friends", and we do that a couple times a month. Almost every time it leads to hand holding, cuddling, kissing (I've never tried to go farther as she didn't show she wanted to). Then she pulls back doesn't really text back and at work (same building - hospital, totally different careers so we don't really see each other unless we mean to) she is really quiet or avoids me. Then in about a week or two it's back to normal....

 

That's all fine but asking her on dates isn't exactly the same thing as asking her to let you in. Have you ever actually done that? As in, "I always feel like you're keeping me at arm's length ....would you please just let me in?" You'll have your answers pretty quick after that. (And based on what you've shared, most likely they'll come in the form of "I can't." But at least you'll know instead of playing guessing games and living in whimsy land.)