oregon0011 Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I’ve noticed a number of threads recently where girls are totally turned off by guys who are treating them right and demonstrating interest. At the same time, these women are wishing they had a man who actually showed less interest, less availability, less affection: [links redacted] It’s a sad phenomenon, and I struggle to understand it. It seems like the cardinal rule of dating for men is this: never ever indicate to a woman you're interested in that you actually *like* her. A man would have to be crazy to tell a woman he loves her in this day and age. A lot of women out there seem to only like men who act disinterested or who treat them like garbage, disposable. They would much prefer a man who demonstrates aloofness, unavailability, even disrespect. It sends a terrible message to young men out there. Forget trying to get women to realize they do this.. I have a close female friend of 20 years who does this constantly,YET will never acknowledge this when I call her out.. She gets angry at me.. I also think it is more of an American phenomenom.. A guy isnt a "catch" unless he does not care at all...Some sort of social conditioning that takes place here that i can not put my finger on. And once again, this is not ALLLLLLLLLLL women, but something guys come across quite often.. 1
TheBathWater Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) As a male, I'm always cautious when it comes to speaking about the experience of women, since you know, I'm not one. At the same time, I think there is some truth to what the OP is saying, otherwise he wouldn't say it at all. But moreover, it's one of those basic popular tenants of male/female relationships that has existed for ages: women like the bad boys (not true of ALL women, but of many, yes). I had a woman write me back on OLD last night to tell me I seemed like a very interesting guy, but that we wouldn't work out because I seemed like I had my act together and her Global Assessment Functioning score is a 17 (i.e. that's psychological terms for grossly disturbed). I couldn't help but wonder, why the heck is she even putting herself out there then, and why would she be looking for someone less healthy? That's an extreme example, but it just happened last night, so it's on my mind. I do also believe it is getting worse and that this is at least partially the result of technology, but it may also have some relationship to pop culture and the increase of sexual objectification. Women are taught to see themselves as objects from an early age and I'm sure many unconsciously seek out these experiences as they get older since it conforms to what they know. Being treated like a respectable person certainly doesn't fit that model. And if you think pop culture doesn't have a financial stake in playing into women's insecurities, think again. A large chunk of our consumerist model is driven by making people feel bad about themselves. North America, as the world's "leading nation", does a piss poor job of having self-awareness and promoting actual healthy humans, but a fantastic job at promoting marketing that garners capital at the expense of social problems. I feel disgusted just rereading that last sentence. I feel I can say these things because I hear many women also say them, so it's not some whacky male hypothesis over here. It certainly doesn't seem that many of the features of male/female relationships today were things that feminists fought for years ago, that's for sure. I'm not holding my breath for any solutions either. But, as a male who prefers to not disrespect women and have meaningful relationships, my best advice is to know yourself and your values really well, not allow yourself to get too jaded (some bitterness is normal and even healthy), live a life that is honorable to YOU, and keep your eyes out for the women who are worth it/ready for a guy like you. They are everywhere, but sometimes they just don't see it in themselves yet. You don't want to wait for them on that either. Look for the ones who are looking for you. Edited December 15, 2015 by TunaInTheBrine
One_Made_of_Silver Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Forget trying to get women to realize they do this.. I have a close female friend of 20 years who does this constantly,YET will never acknowledge this when I call her out.. She gets angry at me.. I also think it is more of an American phenomenom.. A guy isnt a "catch" unless he does not care at all...Some sort of social conditioning that takes place here that i can not put my finger on. And once again, this is not ALLLLLLLLLLL women, but something guys come across quite often.. I think we all know some females who do this. My friend who lives in New Mexico: love her to death, but she seems to be a magnet for the world's worst men. She is hot and makes a ton of money in the medical field so she could have any guy she wanted but she keeps repeating these disfunctional relationships with guys who are just trash. Her last bf yelled at me because I was standing too close to him at a watch party. Edited December 15, 2015 by One_Made_of_Silver
katiegrl Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I’ve noticed a number of threads recently where girls are totally turned off by guys who are treating them right and demonstrating interest. At the same time, these women are wishing they had a man who actually showed less interest, less availability, less affection: [links redacted][/url] It’s a sad phenomenon, and I struggle to understand it. It seems like the cardinal rule of dating for men is this: never ever indicate to a woman you're interested in that you actually *like* her. A man would have to be crazy to tell a woman he loves her in this day and age. A lot of women out there seem to only like men who act disinterested or who treat them like garbage, disposable. They would much prefer a man who demonstrates aloofness, unavailability, even disrespect. It sends a terrible message to young men out there. I haven't seen or read any of these threads...where are they? I recall one that was close from a female poster who was dating this guy she wasn't that interested in from the get go....but as soon as he pulled away, she suddenly was all into him, but apparently it was too late. But that's the only one I have seen. Can you link some of them? I would like to read them....thanks.
Popsicle Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 And I wonder why some guys constantly make threads about and pine for women who don't want them. It's the same thing. 2
katiegrl Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I haven't seen or read any of these threads...where are they? I recall one that was close from a female poster who was dating this guy she wasn't that interested in from the get go....but as soon as he pulled away, she suddenly was all into him, but apparently it was too late. But that's the only one I have seen. Can you link some of them? I would like to read them....thanks. Nevermind.... I guess I joined this party too late.
mrldii Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 And I wonder why some guys constantly make threads about and pine for women who don't want them. It's the same thing. Or why people - men AND women - spend so much time, energy, and "pen and ink" fretting over the types of people/types of behavior they claim to not want/not like. Seriously...if I ever came to the *realization* that "all men do [fill in the blank with the complaint du jour]", the first and only thing I'd do is sit myself down in front of a mirror and have a good long talk at myself about what it is that I am or am not doing that is causing this *bad* response in 100% of the members of the opposite sex and then - at the very least - I'd start doing the exact opposite, just to generate a different (and more positive) response from "all the men". Doing anything else just seems to be the very definition of the word "insanity". Because I'm not insane, I don't do insane. 2
deep_night Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 This is not about DNA. It's about ego. If a woman thinks a man is unavailable emotionally, what have you, she feels as it's a challenge to "get" him and if she accomplishes that (regardless of the treatment she ends up receiving), she feels like she was the one who was finally able to get the elusive, uncatchable man and she "thinks" it puts her above all the others. But, the reason that all the others are "all the others", is that they finally realized the position they put themselves in and grew some b*alls/ self-respect. allow me to disagree. unresponsiveness isn't attractive. not being loyal isn't attractive. we all want to feel special and wanted. deep inside no one wants someone unresponsive and emotionally distant. if a man is warm with his woman and at the same time seems unbreakable, this is perfection. it's just that it's really rare. so most seemingly unbreakable guys are the ones who are jerks. many times they re not even unbreakable, it's just a false impression they give. 1
GravityMan Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I think this whole "women who like unavailable men" is nothing more than a red herring, and therefore should be dismissed. Generally speaking, men and women who possess attractive and desirable qualities in personality, character, attitude, self-esteem, looks, social skills, lifestyle, values, passions, sense of humor, etc...are more likely to be in committed relationships with attractive partners. Especially those who are in their mid-20s and older, and especially those who are good judges of character (i.e. good "people-pickers"). There's also a middle ground between being an aloof a-hole and coming on real hot-n-heavy (loads of flowers, $500 dinner on the first date, etc.) It's not hard to walk that middle ground...the vast majority of self-respecting people walk it just fine. A good start is to NOT drop everything else in your life just because you met some woman that you have the serious hots for. Continue to devote physical and mental energy to your job, friends, hobbies and so on. If she likes you and you like her and you two seem to "click" pretty well, then things should progress naturally with time. A compatible romantic partner should add to and enhance your life...not dominate it, and not be the "missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle". 7
JustGettingBy Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Chances are you don't hear about those instances because if your relationship is going well, you're not going to be posting about it on an online forum. You mean the same phenomenon that leads to you never hearing: "Today's top story: 99% of people on Earth have ordinary day" 2
thecrucible Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I missed the originally linked threads, but having kept tabs on a few threads lately that could've been talked about regarding this subject, I'll say this: There are degrees of showing interest in someone. It's not so much that girls don't want a guy who treats them well or is into them. It's that they are often a little put off by who comes on too strong, too soon. Quite a few guys here seem to be unable to process this. They think going overboard with candy, gifts, flowers, chivalry, future planning on the second date, are all just part of showing interest. When this happens too soon, it raises red flags for a lot of women, because it seems less like the guy is interested in her and more interested in just going from 0 to 100 with someone, anyone. Slow down, people. It doesn't mean treat her like dirt or tell her that her mom is probably ugly. It just means not to make yourself exceedingly available and borderline aggressive with accelerating the relationship. Let that blossom organically instead of treating it like a GMO. Make the woman part of your (hopefully already) awesome life; not your entire life. I'm a guy and if a girl was doing some of the things I see these guys doing, I'd become cautious, too. I mean, I think I'm pretty great, but how can someone I just met really know that yet? I'd wonder why she's trying to sprint us toward a life where it's like we've been a couple for years already. Your reply is totally spot on. Also as wb1988 said, it's the idea of there being something to figure out about the guy. You don't want to feel like there isn't some kind of mystery to the guy. That doesn't mean you want a jerk however. Also playing in a little bit of risk rather than trying your best to shine (like you would in a job interview) works as well. There are guys who even slightly irritated me in certain ways (but not enough to dislike them) but I still fancied the socks off them and couldn't get them out of my head. They weren't bad people, they just showed certain quirks and that intrigued me.
Rejected Rosebud Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 You are only looking at one side of this thing. It's not just that these gals are discounting guys who show affection and interest; its that they are also going after and desiring men who demonstrate aloof or disrespectful behavior toward them. 1) If "these gals" ONLY prefer aloof, disrespectful men, or guys involved with other women, they must have low self esteem. You're probably better off without them anyway. 2) We (not just women, MEN as well) like who we like. Just because a guy happens to be "available" doesn't mean we are going to be interested in him. Once again the concept of having to be personally attracted to and interested in someone in order to seek a relationship - or even plain old sex - with them seems to elude you.
Rejected Rosebud Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I think we all know some females who do this. My friend who lives in New Mexico: love her to death, but she seems to be a magnet for the world's worst men. But why are we talking about this like it's a "woman thing"? This site is overflowing with men who have the "hot mess" problem going on and driving them crazy ... some people just like drama and / or misery. 3
ManyDissapoint Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 In my experience, a huge percentage of of women cannot resist an aloof, unavailable man. Early in dating the tests come fast and furious to make sure you are not making her the center of your world prematurely. To be fair, you should not be. She's not that special. Once you realize this, the dating world is your oyster. Kind of boring and predictable but that's what it is.
Hopeful30 Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) I believe it's because women might feel they are more valuable when they catch an unavailable man. It's a complex basically. If an unavailable man turns her way then wow! She must be worth more than if an available man looked at her (he can look at anyone so women might not value his interest as much). Plus many women feel that a man is more valuable if he's already taken in some way. It's my parking spot analogy all over again. The good ones are taken and women think the available ones aren't because no one wants them or sometching must be wrong. After all, if a man is truly worthy, why is he single? That's how this kind of woman thinks. That's my theory. I once had a friend (keyword HAD) who slept with every single guy I dated or who liked me because it was the only way she could feel good about herself. After all, if I saw something in him then surely he must be something good! And thus was her pattern (with other women too). It could also be that. Women try to add to their confidence by going after men of confident women. Other men don't help because she won't see them as having anything worthy because other women don't. Edited December 15, 2015 by Hopeful30
MoreAmore Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I get far more female attention when I least want it. As a woman, EVERYONE gets far more attention when they least want it. Been there, done that.
Natalie8 Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) 1) If "these gals" ONLY prefer aloof, disrespectful men, or guys involved with other women, they must have low self esteem. You're probably better off without them anyway. 2) We (not just women, MEN as well) like who we like. Just because a guy happens to be "available" doesn't mean we are going to be interested in him. Once again the concept of having to be personally attracted to and interested in someone in order to seek a relationship - or even plain old sex - with them seems to elude you. I was going to say pretty much the same. I dont remember reading any threads where women claimed to prefer guys who disrespect them or wishing the guy was more aloof. If you are refering to the girl you mentioned in your other womenbashing thread ( come to think of it, you were saying pretty much the same thing . It just had a different title), i think she was simply not interested. Not because you were nice and available but just because she wasnt interested. I know it is easier to deal with rejection by telling yourself that if she rejected you it means she must not like good guys only men who treat her like garbage. But i think you are doing yourself a disservice in the long run. I think pretty much everyone told you that already on that thread so i wont repeat it. I personally have been in situations where the guys were great to start with, no red flags but then a few months in they changed and admitted to not being ready emotionally. By then i was invested and i kept trying. Not because i like unavailable guys but because i liked those guys. Sure, they are some women who pick guys who are very vocal about not being available. And some girls have low self esteem and pick guys who mistreat them. But a person with a healthy self esteem who is ready, able and willing to contribute to a grown up , mature relationship wont be like that. Edited December 15, 2015 by Natalie8 2
LoveRefreshed Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I’ve noticed a number of threads recently where girls are totally turned off by guys who are treating them right and demonstrating interest. At the same time, these women are wishing they had a man who actually showed less interest, less availability, less affection: [links redacted] [/url] It’s a sad phenomenon, and I struggle to understand it. It seems like the cardinal rule of dating for men is this: never ever indicate to a woman you're interested in that you actually *like* her. A man would have to be crazy to tell a woman he loves her in this day and age. A lot of women out there seem to only like men who act disinterested or who treat them like garbage, disposable. They would much prefer a man who demonstrates aloofness, unavailability, even disrespect. It sends a terrible message to young men out there. It has been my experience that there is a point. The point you're allowed to tell them how you feel and be emotionally vulnerable has been for me after a few weeks of banging and them liking you. Never say it first and never say it before you've been in the sack with each other. 1
katiegrl Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I was going to say pretty much the same. I dont remember reading any threads where women claimed to prefer guys who disrespect them or wishing the guy was more aloof. ---- If you are refering to the girl you mentioned in your other womenbashing thread ( come to think of it, you were saying pretty much the same thing . It just had a different title), i think she was simply not interested. Not because you were nice and available but just because she wasnt interested. I know it is easier to deal with rejection by telling yourself that if she rejected you it means she must not like good guys only men who treat her like garbage. But i think you are doing yourself a disservice in the long run. I think pretty much everyone told you that already on that thread so i wont repeat it. *****I personally have been in situations where the guys were great to start with, no red flags but then a few months in they changed and admitted to not being ready emotionally. By then i was invested and i kept trying. ****Not because i like unavailable guys but because i liked those guys. *** ----- Sure, they are some women who pick guys who are very vocal about not being available. And some girls have low self esteem and pick guys who mistreat them. But a person with a healthy self esteem who is ready, able and willing to contribute to a grown up , mature relationship wont be like that. Absolutely agree with this ...was gonna post same exact thing actually, glad I read this first!
katiegrl Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 And if you displaying dis-interest, acting aloof, and or otherwise treating her poorly ****from the get go**** ...and she appears intrigued and attracted anyway ...then I would suggest you RUN. As such women have little to no self-esteem, are insecure, emotionally needy and most likely unstable. A woman with HIGH self esteem and who is secure and stable (which I presume is the type of woman YOU desire?) wants a man who is actually interested in her...and NOT afraid to show it! Not obsessively so...there is a balance as was explained earlier by another poster. Your choice guys.
SoleMate Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 OP, what would you say about a woman who ceaselessly posts threads about how angry she is over the behavior of every man in creation? Who scorns men for their foolishness and wrongheadedness? Who says that every man is just getting manhood wrong by refusing dates and relationships with her? Who will make a fulltime job of distorting available facts to fit her conclusion? Who turns a deaf ear to dozens of men patiently explaining male behavior to her, insisting she knows far better than they the true motivations of men (despite not being one)? Who wants to force all men to behave in the way that suits her, regardless of the man's own self-interest and preferences? Who seems determined to remain stuck in a rut that by her own admission is making her miserable, while refusing every shred of insight that could help release her? Champion of self-defeat, right? Would you start to wonder WHY all "her" energy is poured into outward attacks, when she would more usefully realize that men are what they are, and that success with men is perhaps a puzzle but has been solved by billions of women? Now think about that for a while..... 3
Author oberkeat Posted December 20, 2015 Author Posted December 20, 2015 I think this whole "women who like unavailable men" is nothing more than a red herring, and therefore should be dismissed. Generally speaking, men and women who possess attractive and desirable qualities in personality, character, attitude, self-esteem, looks, social skills, lifestyle, values, passions, sense of humor, etc...are more likely to be in committed relationships with attractive partners. Especially those who are in their mid-20s and older, and especially those who are good judges of character (i.e. good "people-pickers"). There's also a middle ground between being an aloof a-hole and coming on real hot-n-heavy (loads of flowers, $500 dinner on the first date, etc.) It's not hard to walk that middle ground...the vast majority of self-respecting people walk it just fine. A good start is to NOT drop everything else in your life just because you met some woman that you have the serious hots for. Continue to devote physical and mental energy to your job, friends, hobbies and so on. If she likes you and you like her and you two seem to "click" pretty well, then things should progress naturally with time. A compatible romantic partner should add to and enhance your life...not dominate it, and not be the "missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle". I wish it were a red herring but such women do exist, and they make up a sizable portion of women who are in the market for a man. It seems as if some women are only truly able to maintain their excitement when a guy is some type of bad boy or a jerk who is aloof, shows little interest in them, or is otherwise unavailable. There is no "middle ground" for these women. Some of them have been honest enough to admit that this is the type of behavior that turns them on.
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