Cheating spouse. Found out 17 years later.

[italianjob]

Those people telling the OP to walk away from a 20-year relationship - and 4 kids - without trying to work through the issues are doing him a disservice.

 

 

I agree, but the same goes for those who are telling him to just get over it and rugsweep, without exploring what might be lurking in the shadows of this story...

[pteromom]

How would you describe your marriage - BEFORE you found this out? Have you both been happy? Trusting? Open? Good friends? If so, I would definitely try to work through this, though your wife has to understand that it will take some time.

 

I do agree with those saying a little more investigation is in order. It's weird that this guy knew who you were and felt impelled to contact you 17 years later. Could be he is coo-coo, but if not, why is this still on his mind? I would call your cell provider and get the phone and text logs and see if there is anything going on that you need to know about. I would also put a VAR in her car and see if you can get any info from phone calls with her friends, etc. If you find nothing out of the ordinary, I really would try to rebuild your marriage.

 

And no, I wouldn't make her dump her friends. That is just done out of revenge and wanting to hurt her back - it doesn't change your wife's character. If it turns out she IS a cheater and a liar, her friends aren't forcing her to be that way. And if it turns out she isn't, it doesn't really matter if her friends are the greatest people or not. She is responsible for her own choices.

[acrosstheuniverse]

Most newlyweds feel the same way, yet the OP had this inclination:

 

 

 

Deception and dishonesty are never good things but lots of gray areas and challenges here.

 

Those people telling the OP to walk away from a 20-year relationship - and 4 kids - without trying to work through the issues are doing him a disservice.

 

Lots to think about here...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Lots and lots of people male and female, have threesome fantasties. Most people never bring it up for fear of reprisal, or they do and their partner either agrees or otherwise. I don't actually see a grey area when we're talking about fidelity and threesomes, as like I say, when you go into a threesome there are clear rules about who the person is, when it will happen, that it isn't allowed to happen separately from the relationship and so forth.

 

I actually saw most posters saying he should figure it out and stick with the relationship, which is why I thought I'd add my perspective, I'm sure he'll read through them all and make his own mind up about what's best for him. Personally I think kids are happier with two single happy parents than in an unhappy marriage, I know this from experience... if he can forgive her truly and be happy, then that'd be what's best for them of course. But if he can't, he shouldn't feel guilty. His wife created this. I can't imagine how anyone just forgets about this and moves on, but I hope he can if it's what he chooses to do.

[sandylee1]

There is nothing to talk out with those backstabbing "friends".

Forgive those "friends"? Who is that crazy? Toxic backstabbing friends are not needed to recover a marriage.

 

This ^^^^^ is too extreme IMO. You can't realistically ask her to drop these friends after all this time. Remember they were all young back then.

 

I can understand you not liking them anymore and I can understand you not wanting them in your home.. if you can forgive her.. you can forgive them. Your wife did this to you.. NOT THEM.

[sandylee1]

So after 17 years... I reckon his wife found out about a current infidelity and he fessed up to this one or failed a poly and his wife insisted you be told. He's done it to save his marriage.

 

Did the man know you?

How did he track you down?

That means your wife must have told him her surname to be..For him to find you. Why would she do this?

Do you still live in the same area ?

 

I wouldn't like to end a marriage that has otherwise been good.... unless she cheated during the marriage... Once those vows were taken. Yes..I'd be hurt and angry... but if she had been 100% faithful .then I would want to forgive if it was me.

[road]

This ^^^^^ is too extreme IMO. You can't realistically ask her to drop these friends after all this time. Remember they were all young back then.

 

I can understand you not liking them anymore and I can understand you not wanting them in your home.. if you can forgive her.. you can forgive them. Your wife did this to you.. NOT THEM.

 

You confuse to be able to can with being able to need to.

 

 

The BH has no need to forgive those toxic friends. Affairs have consequences. The friends of the WW chose sides 17 years ago. In doing so as the WW took the risk that she would not get caught, the friends took the risk that their involvement would never see the light of day and they would never have to face the consequences.

 

 

Well the light of day, after 17 years finally caught them. They risked their friendship with the WW. Well I guess that friendship was not that valuable for they were willing to gamble and lose.

[bathtub-row]

A couple of things immediately come to mind. First of all, you yourself opened this door to infidelity when you became open to sharing her in a threesome. If I had been her, I would've concluded that me being with other guys might not be such a big deal to you.

 

The other thing that comes to mind is that the person you're married to now is not the same person she was when she was 16, 25, etc. And neither are her friends. I have never been a fan of childhood sweetheart relationships because of this very reason. It's too much time with one person and not any chance to find out who you are, what your own likes and dislikes are, to be free and unencumbered, to travel the world, experience different relationships, etc.

 

Relationships stunt people if they become serious at an early age. You became all she knew, you became her world way too soon in life. And that's ditto for you. I'm not excusing what she did but her behavior is not surprising, either. By the time she was questioning whether to marry you or not, you were still her anchor, the person she had been with for a very long time. She was too afraid to fully let that go. And you probably were, too.

 

I think, at this point, your best option would be to stay in the marriage and know that you can eventually get past this. You have too many years invested, and children involved. Try to see her as the person she has grown to be and not the person she was back then. Try to understand that the two of you unwittingly stole one another's childhood. And that even though you took something precious from each other, you have added something, too. And it's the good that you've gotten from your relationship that should be focused on in order to rebuild your relationship. But, first, you need to let yourself stop spinning from what she did, to get past the hurt, and then try to move forward.

 

I don't know if this helps or not but there are tons of married people who THINK they know their partners and they don't have a clue. You no doubt have a better understanding of your wife than most simply because of the years you've known her. However, do not ever lose sight of the fact that we never know the underlying thoughts and feelings of another person unless they choose to share those things with us. And there's usually a lot that isn't shared. I'm guessing that she doesn't know your every thought and feeling, either. This is the nature of humans. To be able to fully trust is a luxury and what is really hurting you is that she isn't the person you thought she was and that the trust is gone. You can get most of that trust back but you have crossed a line that you cannot be un-crossed. But that doesn't mean you can't repair this, and I think you should try.

[Adrian73]

Hi

 

Thanks for all the replies. I haven't disappeared, life is just hectic. I have read all the posts, I will endeavor to answer some of the things raised as soon as I can.

 

I just wanted to say in regard to my female friend which has been mentioned a few times that there is no chance of any romantic feelings. She is a confirmed lesbian and has been for many years.

 

I will get back to the rest as soon as I can.

[bathtub-row]

That shows no remorse. she has no remorse for what she did. She's only really sorry she got caught. I would dumper her. Knowing full well that she will be married to you shortly. You have a right to be mad at her friends. But she's the one that's broken. she's the one that knew she was getting married. she had no problem having sex with multiple men. It's not like she just fu*k four different guys. Or had one night stands. Total disregard for you and disrespected you.

 

But the threesome that he was agreeable to was ok? Sorry, on the list of bad ideas, that one is at the very top of the list. If my guy was willing to share me with another man, then doing things behind his back wouldn't seem like that big of a leap.

 

What difference does it make if she's screwing a guy with him present or with him not present? He says that the only reason he dropped the threesome idea was that he didn't want the drama. Not that he couldn't deal with watching some guy screw his wife, or his wife watch him screw another woman. It was the drama. Sorry, he opened that door. He gave her the greenlight. She's unlikely to fully understand why her sleeping with other guys would bother him now when it didn't bother him then.

[spanz1]

one thought, that may give you some comfort. A lot of people get engaged, then get cold feet. They have doubts, worry they are giving up their fun lives to be tied down. Not really sure they lover you.

 

 

So engaged people, although they are more than just GF/BF....often have these mental conflicts going on inside. She had affairs with other men, examined her thoughts, realized she did love you, and decided to go thru with the marriage.

 

 

what was the alternative? She had her affair, realized you were not the love of her life, and she would have called off the engagement. And you would never have figured out why she called it off.

 

 

As others said, as long as she did NOT have additional affairs after you were married, I would seriously consider letting this slide and trying to forget about it.

[lolablue17]

One major issue is the balance between her past cheating, against her being faithful for 17 years.

 

I want to focus for a minute on her (Questionable) being "faithful 17 years". You mentioned 4 men. How did you know about each one of them? Did she voluntarily told you about the others except the one that you had discovered?

 

If after you knew about the first one, she's admitted by her initiation and on her free will, about her cheating with other 3 men, there's a chance that she's telling the truth.

 

But if you knew about every one of them from other sources, I hardly see even a small chance that it ends there. Most chance that she wasn't faithful at all during your marriage, and that changes the equation.

Edited December 15, 2015 by lolablue17

[lolablue17]

About her her "supportive friends" that encouraged her in the past. She refuses to go NC with them with the argument of "If you can forgive my old mistakes, why can't you understand their mistake and forgive them too".

(Well, it's a lot of forgiving she asks you to do...)

 

This is an Infuriating claim. She has put you threw a Via Dolorosa of pain and misery, you are going to have in the next long long period. It is YOUR struggle, your pain, your suffering. Forgiving her is going to charge a huge price from you. How dare she throwing at you also the price of forgiving other a##holes?

 

After hurting you so much, you should expect her to support you and to be willing to do all it takes to help you heal and to relieve your Pain. If she goes NC with the "supportive a##holes" friends, it will certainly help you to heal faster.

 

But No! She doesn't really care about your pain. She thinks only about herself and the friends she will lose.

 

Tell her that you are very disappointed from her reply. Tell her that she did a terrible horrible thing. She hurt you so much! The least she can do is to make efforts to be there for you, and to do what ever you ask her ,to relieve your Pain, and not trying to make very "smart" arguments so she could get away with it.

 

The first condition to reconcile is her admitting that she did a horrible thing. According to her attitude, she thinks of it as a minor thing she did, and it's only your problem now, not hers. that implies how much she really loves you.

 

She did the sins, but she isn't willing to pay any price... She wants the price to be all on you. I find her present behavior very disturbing

Edited December 15, 2015 by lolablue17

[Ladyjane14]

Hi

 

Thanks for all the replies. I haven't disappeared, life is just hectic. I have read all the posts, I will endeavor to answer some of the things raised as soon as I can.

 

I just wanted to say in regard to my female friend which has been mentioned a few times that there is no chance of any romantic feelings. She is a confirmed lesbian and has been for many years.

 

I will get back to the rest as soon as I can.

 

Your friend might be a lesbian, but does your wife KNOW that she has encouraged you to leave your family and move in with her? Do you share confidences with your friend that you don't share with your wife?

 

Like I said before, betrayals come in all sizes, and this is an unfortunately common one. Most people don't realize that when they're relying on someone else for emotional support... they're getting their needs met outside the marriage.

 

I doubt your friend would be comfortable going to your wife and saying, "oh, btw, Adrian tells me all your business and how he feels about it". And I doubt her friends would have been comfortable telling you about the pre-marital infidelity for the same reasons.

 

This is why I recommended Shirley Glass to you. I think you'd both do well with her "walls and windows" technique for dealing with this dynamic. Your spouse should be your special person, friend and confidant, and vice versa.

 

I'm not saying that neither of you should have friends. I'm just saying that there should be no interactions with friends that are hidden from view or that you'd feel the slightest discomfort with if they happened right in front of your partner.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

I don't get why some people are defending the enabling friends. This is a about a BS trying to heal. If that is the pirce for WW's infidelity, so be it. If her friends are more important than helping her husband heal, then that shows me she doesn't have remorse at all. Absolutely I would demand no contact for these so called friends. And her defending them would cause serious doubts in my mind as to where her loyalty lies.

 

Me personally, I would drop any cheating bitch. 17 years or not. No way I could trust her again. And no way would I believe anything her and her friends try and convince me of. How do you know they haven't been helping facilitate another affair while married? 17 years is a long time. Certainly long enough to have many ups and downs. During a down time in your relationship, she has friends to help her facilitate an affair, and obviously they would be happy to help her **** someone else besides you. Happy to help her keep it a secret. Happy to help her in any way they can to get someone else's pecker between her legs without consequences. And some of you are defending these scum?

[Ladyjane14]

I don't get why some people are defending the enabling friends. This is a about a BS trying to heal. If that is the pirce for WW's infidelity, so be it. If her friends are more important than helping her husband heal, then that shows me she doesn't have remorse at all. Absolutely I would demand no contact for these so called friends. And her defending them would cause serious doubts in my mind as to where her loyalty lies.

 

Me personally, I would drop any cheating bitch. 17 years or not. No way I could trust her again. And no way would I believe anything her and her friends try and convince me of. How do you know they haven't been helping facilitate another affair while married? 17 years is a long time. Certainly long enough to have many ups and downs. During a down time in your relationship, she has friends to help her facilitate an affair, and obviously they would be happy to help her **** someone else besides you. Happy to help her keep it a secret. Happy to help her in any way they can to get someone else's pecker between her legs without consequences. And some of you are defending these scum?

 

The OP's friend is no friend to the marriage either... not when she's encouraging him to leave his family and move in with her.

 

What exactly were these people supposed to do? This was 17 years ago when they were probably all in their young twenties... and here we are, living in a culture which promotes friendship but doesn't educate us on prioritizing the marital dynamic, which is a helluva lot MORE than just sexual exclusivity.

 

Sorry, but it's not necessary for either one of these people to give up their friends. They just need to learn appropriate boundaries and make each other their "bestie".

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

The OP's friend is no friend to the marriage either... not when she's encouraging him to leave his family and move in with her.

 

What exactly were these people supposed to do? This was 17 years ago when they were probably all in their young twenties... and here we are, living in a culture which promotes friendship but doesn't educate us on prioritizing the marital dynamic, which is a helluva lot MORE than just sexual exclusivity.

 

Sorry, but it's not necessary for either one of these people to give up their friends. They just need to learn appropriate boundaries and make each other their "bestie".

 

And I would argue if this story was in reverse, and it was the man who stepped out with multiple women during their engagement, and his friends helped facilitate everything, the tone of this thread would be entirely different. The angry hens would be here typing up a storm of insults towards those friends and WH's desire to defend them. Don't get it twisted OP. WW's are much more forgivable the WH's on this site.

[lolablue17]

The OP's friend is no friend to the marriage either... not when she's encouraging him to leave his family and move in with her.

 

What exactly were these people supposed to do? This was 17 years ago when they were probably all in their young twenties... and here we are, living in a culture which promotes friendship but doesn't educate us on prioritizing the marital dynamic, which is a helluva lot MORE than just sexual exclusivity.

 

Sorry, but it's not necessary for either one of these people to give up their friends. They just need to learn appropriate boundaries and make each other their "bestie".

 

It's not about a case of a husband and wife who argue which friends are welcome or not. In both cases - The friends from both sides are not the issue! There isn't any equal situation here.

 

She cheated. He didn't. She cheated in a very cruel way. He is the victim of her hurting actions, and not the other way around. If he wants her to cut them from her life, these are consequences of her cheating. She has no right to ask him to cut anyone right now. He wants her to cut them off, not because of some academic logical claims, but because he is in a great pain caused by her!

 

Yes, of course his wife is allowed to feel resentment toward his friend, when she encourages him to leave her, but it's the most minor issue in this whole episode. You make it as if it's on the same level. It's not! His wife resentment toward his lesbian friend can wait after the main and big issues are taken care of.

[Ladyjane14]

And I would argue if this story was in reverse, and it was the man who stepped out with multiple women during their engagement, and his friends helped facilitate everything, the tone of this thread would be entirely different. The angry hens would be here typing up a storm of insults towards those friends and WH's desire to defend them. Don't get it twisted OP. WW's are much more forgivable the WH's on this site.

 

I don't see any gender bias... well, discounting the "angry hens" remark.

 

The past can't be changed. It exists. She can't take back the pre-marital affairs and he can't take back the mixed signals he put out by prompting the swinging. They certainly can't send the FOUR children back to where they came from. And.. neither one can go back in time and not share intimate details that should have been exclusive between themselves with outside friends.

 

What they can do is educate themselves on where the boundaries ought to be.

 

I honestly don't know why people get in such a big hurry to destroy families on this board. This is a reparable situation. There's no active affair underfoot, and for what information we have, BOTH these people have been as faithful to each other since the vows were spoken as they know how to be. Can they learn to be MORE faithful?... sure. But the idea that there aren't any ups, downs, or surprises in the course of a lifetime isn't reasonable.

[Ladyjane14]

It's not about a case of a husband and wife who argue which friends are welcome or not. In both cases - The friends from both sides are not the issue! There isn't any equal situation here.

 

She cheated. He didn't. She cheated in a very cruel way. He is the victim of her hurting actions, and not the other way around. If he wants her to cut them from her life, these are consequences of her cheating. She has no right to ask him to cut anyone right now. He wants her to cut them off, not because of some academic logical claims, but because he is in a great pain caused by her!

 

Yes, of course his wife is allowed to feel resentment toward his friend, when she encourages him to leave her, but it's the most minor issue in this whole episode. You make it as if it's on the same level. It's not! His wife resentment toward his lesbian friend can wait after the main and big issues are taken care of.

 

They weren't married. MARRIED is married. And if you've ever been on the receiving end of some "friend" undermining your relationship with your spouse, you'll understand how devastating that particular betrayal is, I assure you.

 

The OP didn't have a problem with sharing his sweetheart with somebody else sexually. The only reason it didn't happen was because the other guy couldn't get it up. So, I don't think it's about the sex. It seems to be about the secrets. What I'm recommending is that they BOTH stop keeping secrets, acknowledge that they've BOTH made mistakes, and learn to set appropriate boundaries.

[lolablue17]

Can they learn to be MORE faithful?... sure. But the idea that there aren't any ups, downs, or surprises in the course of a lifetime isn't reasonable.

 

You see?

 

You say "Can they learn to be MORE faithful?... sure."... It's funny how you ignore the extreme inequality here. Can the murderer and the victim be better human beens? sure... Ha ha! Well you're wrong.

 

He can't be more faithful. Only she.

[lolablue17]

They weren't married. MARRIED is married. And if you've ever been on the receiving end of some "friend" undermining your relationship with your spouse, you'll understand how devastating that particular betrayal is, I assure you.

 

The OP didn't have a problem with sharing his sweetheart with somebody else sexually. The only reason it didn't happen was because the other guy couldn't get it up. So, I don't think it's about the sex. It seems to be about the secrets. What I'm recommending is that they BOTH stop keeping secrets, acknowledge that they've BOTH made mistakes, and learn to set appropriate boundaries.

 

I understand that you are a favor of cheating among couples who has no marriage certificate.

 

If she wanted to test other men before making a decision, she should have broken up with him first, allowing him to experience other girls too if he wishes.

 

You know, I can understand a woman who doesn't plan it, and she falls for another man, gradually, because of routine and problems with man.

 

But she did it while being cold as ice, planned everything carefully, involving cold calculations!!! No love to him, no compassion. She thought only about herself, sacrificing him, without telling him anything.

 

They didn't "both make mistakes". She didn't make any mistake. She $screwed 4 different men intentionally. UGH... Maybe she is a different person now. I doubt it. But it's her responsibility to prove it and right now it seems she proves the opposite.

[Ladyjane14]

You see?

 

You say "Can they learn to be MORE faithful?... sure."... It's funny how you ignore the extreme inequality here. Can the murderer and the victim be better human beens? sure... Ha ha! Well you're wrong.

 

He can't be more faithful. Only she.

 

Well, by all means... he should destroy his entire family dynamic based on an injury which happened nearly two decades ago, before he was actually married, and continue to share his inner angst with someone other than his spouse. That will work wonders, I'm sure.

 

Much better advice than anything he would read from a renowned and experienced doctor of psychology like Shirley Glass.

[lolablue17]

Well, by all means... he should destroy his entire family dynamic based on an injury which happened nearly two decades ago, before he was actually married, and continue to share his inner angst with someone other than his spouse. That will work wonders, I'm sure.

 

Much better advice than anything he would read from a renowned and experienced doctor of psychology like Shirley Glass.

 

No! I didn't advice him to divorce her. Of course there are many other considerations here. But in order to make the right decision for him he should consider everything, and not ignoring anything.

 

Maybe, for example he is in so much pain, and the only way he can stay is if she shows some remorse? Right now it doesn't seem she showed any remorse. I feel she is playing cards, trying to minimize her responsibility.

 

I think that the major problem is more in the present, than the past.

[Ladyjane14]

I understand that you are a favor of cheating among couples who has no marriage certificate.

 

If she wanted to test other men before making a decision, she should have broken up with him first, allowing him to experience other girls too if he wishes.

 

You know, I can understand a woman who doesn't plan it, and she falls for another man, gradually, because of routine and problems with man.

 

But she did it while being cold as ice, planned everything carefully, involving cold calculations!!! No love to him, no compassion. She thought only about herself, sacrificing him, without telling him anything.

 

They didn't "both make mistakes". She didn't make any mistake. She $screwed 4 different men intentionally. UGH... Maybe she is a different person now. I doubt it. But it's her responsibility to prove it and right now it seems she proves the opposite.

 

People do lots of stupid things in their early twenties.... because their BRAINS aren't finished developing.

 

What has she done lately, aside from giving birth to his progeny and apparently being a faithful wife since taking her marriage vows?

 

She's not the only one who had some sexual curiosity back then, you know. The OP is up-front that he's the one who suggested the swinging. They were BOTH young, inexperienced, undeveloped, and in my opinion... both deserving of compassion and forgiveness.

[Ladyjane14]

No! I didn't advice him to divorce her. Of course there are many other considerations here. But in order to make the right decision for him he should consider everything, and not ignoring anything.

 

Maybe, for example he is in so much pain, and the only way he can stay is if she shows some remorse? Right now it doesn't seem she showed any remorse. I feel she is playing cards, trying to minimize her responsibility.

 

I think that the major problem is more in the present, than the past.

 

I'd agree with that part in bold. I think the problem is in the present. Further, I think that these couple of sentences in the first post factor into the problem.

 

Truthfully I also think I am a little bit jealous. I could have done these same things. I have at times wondered what it would be like with another woman but I have never acted on that.

 

The OP is right around that age where people start wondering if there might have been other choices along the way or if they're getting all they can out of life. Mid-life musings, I suppose you could call it... not quite a "crisis", but at the point where we start wondering "Is this all there is?"

 

The trick, I think, is to deepen what you already have, but that's hard to see from that particular vantage point.