Broke up with gf over religion, now second guessing

[DontBreakEven]

I think the fact that you feel you can't take her words at face value (for whatever reason you feel that way) is enough to say you shouldn't be together.

[marky00]

I faced cultural issues im LDR. She was Thai and their culture and tradition is quite confronting.

 

I used to let it psyche me out thinking about all the stuff that might happen, how I would be an ATM machine for her family, her cousins, her grandparents blah blah blah.

 

Thing is I did over-think it and I (and her) did turn into a grander issue than what it was.

 

I feel for you... its awfully tough making a decision about something that hasn't even happened. You can only surmise how things will go down but the truth is you don't know for sure.

 

Maybe your decision is right but maybe you pulled the trigger a touch too early.

 

Just remember people have been known to run away on wedding days... its a terrible thing but it does happen. Your not at the wedding day yet.... or even that close so you could have possibly ridden through a few more life events... which would have confirmed or possibly alleviate those fears.

 

With relationships, you need to live in THE NOW, when you live in the future... you forget to take care of the present moment which matters the most.

[Jefezen]

"Thing is I did over-think it and I (and her) did turn into a grander issue than what it was."

 

What do you mean by this? Your fears turned out to be true, the opposite, or something in-between?

 

I tried comforting myself by searching online for examples of non-Muslim male/female Muslim couplings where the woman was observant from a Sharia country. I couldn't find a single example. While I did find non-Muslim males who married Muslim women, they fit into three categories: the Muslim had no contact with her country of origin, the man converted, or the woman was secular. I can't find a single example of my situation. There may be a good reason for that.

[marky00]

"Thing is I did over-think it and I (and her) did turn into a grander issue than what it was."

 

What do you mean by this? Your fears turned out to be true, the opposite, or something in-between?

 

 

Well sadly, I never got to find out because the over-thinking and worries about the future kinda of almost put me in quicksand. Basically we both started pulling back which really hurt the relationship.

 

When you heavily think about the future.... it becomes AN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

 

Logically hour human brains tried to predict the future as best as possible and we sometimes act thinking we will save us pain in the future. Problem is but, since the painful event never actually occurred, that is bound to lead to second-guessing later on.

 

Its kind of like getting a MRI from the doctor, he tells you have a benign cancer that may or may not turn into full-blown cancer. You have no symptoms of course as well. I find these types of decisions awful because your weighing up things that haven't happened and if you over-think it enough, the thing will become a HUGE ELEPHANT and you will just end up making a decision one way or another because you just want that elephant out of the room.

[Jax13]

I personally could not marry anyone who doesn't share the same religious beliefs as I do (I'm a Christian). I would even have a difficult time marrying someone who says that's what they believe but don't actually practice that in their life.

 

 

My ex and I had the same religious beliefs and she practiced them even more than me I think. Her family had gone through some tough times and when they turned to God, everything worked out for them, so I don't doubt her faith at all. She had even told me that a relationship based on God is what she wanted most.

 

 

Imagine my surprise when she cheats on me, leaves me and then starts "seeing" a sleazebag guy who has never been to church in his life.

[Amelie1980]

I might be overstepping the mark here....but what is her visa status? Does she have indefinite leave to remain in the USA?

 

You say her family are in Iran so I presume she was not born in the USA and not a citizen?

 

Maybe that's why an inter faith marriage strangely isnt a problem and why she is playing down the penalty in her culture for such a marriage. It's a means to an end for her perhaps......

[Jefezen]

She can remain here indefinitely taking English classes, even though she already speaks it. The problem is that if she leaves the United States, she may not be allowed back in because the embassy would want her to have a good reason for being here and taking the same English class over and over again likely would not qualify as compelling. She's applying to graduate programs here, thinking that this would increase the likelihood of securing her status.

 

While marrying for a green card has crossed my mind, I think it unlikely because she is extremely beautiful and could easily attract a U.S. citizen of the same religion, or one willing to convert to it. When I say she's model caliber 10, I really mean it. Also, at no time did she ever bring up marriage with me. I never felt pressured about it. I raised the subject myself because I'm at a point in my life where I want to marry and have children.

 

As I've said before, though, I just find it very hard to believe that a semi-religious Muslim from an observant family would have absolutely no qualms about breaking laws that are punishable by death and completely contrary to Islamic tradition. I would have expected at least a modicum of resistance, followed by a period of bargaining. That would seem more honest to me. I also find it hard to believe that two imams in Iran wouldn't object.

 

Something else that bothered me was when she said that I don't need to explain everything to my parents until the time comes. It made me wonder whether she was practicing what she preached with her own parents, only giving them partial stories about my expectations in a marriage (neither party converts at any time, no Islamic wedding, no travel to Iran for me or the kids, kids raised Jewish). Perhaps she only told them bits and pieces, and only offered me partial responses.

 

It's easy to pay lip service to something when you're not at a point to take action. The day I marry her, especially in her proposed Middle East wedding, someone would probably ask me to convert for the sake of her safety, and by then it would be too late to back out, especially in the scenario of her being detained, pending proof of an Islamic marriage. And obviously if her life were in peril, I'd do whatever it takes to rescue it, including conversion. I just don't think I should put myself in that situation.

 

Bottom line, if she were secular from a secular family, I might believe that I would be okay. Religious from a religious family, I would expect something other than supportive capitulation from both her and her family.

[Amelie1980]

So there is a limit to how long she csn take English classes as she speaks it. She cannot leave or she may not get back in and she may not get on a graduate programme. Sounds like her status is shaky.

 

as for other guys......maybe other men dont want to marry an observant Muslim. I would struggle to live with a partner who is devoutly religious. Even with Muslim men.... Maybe they would also not want to marry her not having had sex first: sexual incompatibility is huge and if they marry before doing that then it's a big ol divorce if they arent compatible.

 

The USA is considerably more anti Muslim than say Europe. Maybe she cant find a secular American who wants to live with that even though she is beautiful.

 

Why is she abandoning everything and fast for a guy she barely knows? A green card and anchor babies I think.

 

I have Iranian Muslim friends and they are not devout. They wear Western clothing, do not pray, do not attend mosque, are lax with Ramadan, etc. They eat only halal and don't drink alcohol though. I cannot see the day though that my friend agreed to hand over her religious identity and raise Jewish children. I just cant see her doing it as her faith is still importnat to her. And your ex is very devout and yet willing to give it up. Sounds like there is an ulterior motive.

 

Also proposed marriage is Dubai?! Good Lord. The whole of UAE are Wahhabi Muslims...very puritanical. Westerners are warned not to share a hotel room if you are not married...they are bloody strict. You have bring fake wedding rings if you want to share with your bf.

 

she says they will just marry a Muslim and a Jew in a non Islamic marriage......? Horse s ** t!

 

Sorry

Edited December 14, 2015 by Amelie1980

[Pamvhv]

I feel like everyone here is piling on this girl for no reason. The problem is with him. He's making decisions about religion and what she can and can't do, what her father will think, what her religion says without her permission. You can't make other's decisions for them. My super muslim friend is married to an America atheist. She didn't need a visa. She fell in love.

[kidm]

What visa allows her to enter the country and take English classes indefinitely? Do tell because I have never heard of such a thing. What is her status? The fact that she is gorgeous doesn't mean she could easily find a man to marry. There are gorgeous single women everywhere still struggling to find suitable partners and frankly the fact that she is a devout Muslim and a virgin narrows her dating field in the United States.

[Amelie1980]

What visa allows her to enter the country and take English classes indefinitely? Do tell because I have never heard of such a thing. What is her status? The fact that she is gorgeous doesn't mean she could easily find a man to marry. There are gorgeous single women everywhere still struggling to find suitable partners and frankly the fact that she is a devout Muslim and a virgin narrows her dating field in the United States.

 

It would narrow her dating field anywhere in the world other than in an Islamic country. You're right.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Amelie1980

[Amelie1980]

Check this out.....

 

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/united-arab-emirates/local-laws-and-customs

 

Read all the warnings re local customs in UAE. You're not going to tell me that she can get married in UAE as a Muslim woman to a non Muslim man in a secular service and they will be fine with that.

[Amelie1980]

I also found it suspicious that she kept pushing for a wedding in Dubai, even after our joint research revealed that qazis in the Middle East will not perform an interfaith marriage, period. I told her about the ones available in the United States and England. They weren't good enough for her, especially not the female qazi that I found. When I mentioned that Turkey allows interfaith civil marriages, she still pushed Dubai, and then proposed either Egypt or Lebanon.

 

Yeah there you have it... she rejects marrying in a western country and pushes for Dubai...a strict Wahhabi country, Lebanon is next door to Syria FGS..look at the UK's travel advice regarding Lebanon..is she out of her mind?! There is a red no travel zone right to the capitals airport because of bomb attacks https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/lebanon

 

You offered her weddings in the USA, the UK and more liberal Muslim countries where you would be completely safe, but she wont have it. She is pushing Muslim countries that are intolerant and/or dangerous? I'm sorry but trust your gut and dont go back to her. There is just something not right about this.

[Jefezen]

You can get an I-20 student visa by enrolling in English classes. There are six levels. The first five are for people legitimately learning the language. The sixth class is for people who already speak well, but need an excuse to retain legal status. She attends class from 9:30 to 1:30, Monday through Friday, eight months out of the year. She told me all they do is read articles, socialize, and watch movies. There is no homework. There are no tests. You are permitted four absences per month. Most people just play with their cell phones.

 

It's a win-win situation for both the "students" and the school. Tuition is expensive and you can stay enrolled in the class for as long as you want, even years. Some students have been in Level 6 for as long as eight years.

 

The two disadvantages are that you can't work, and you can't re-enter the country without persuading the embassy that you have a compelling reason to be here. For some people, this is not a problem. They just want the legal status and have no desire to work or travel. For those like my ex, who wants to visit family in Canada and back in Iran, it prevents her from leaving. That's why she hopes to gain admission into a graduate program. The first one she applied to rejected her.

 

A little more on her background: she left Iran after college and earned a masters in engineering at a school in London. She stretched a two year program into three years. Then she was hired by a company in the U.S., but was laid off after ten months. She's been in the English class ever since (about two years now). Now she's applying for masters programs in public health. I don't think she has the desire to work.

[Amelie1980]

A little more on her background: she left Iran after college and earned a masters in engineering at a school in London. She stretched a two year program into three years. Then she was hired by a company in the U.S., but was laid off after ten months. She's been in the English class ever since (about two years now). Now she's applying for masters programs in public health. I don't think she has the desire to work.

 

Which school in London?

 

If that is the case that she doesnt want to work despite being well qualified, can yu support her financially forever/?

[Jefezen]

"You offered her weddings in the USA, the UK and more liberal Muslim countries where you would be completely safe, but she wont have it. She is pushing Muslim countries that are intolerant and/or dangerous? I'm sorry but trust your gut and dont go back to her. There is just something not right about this."

 

She agreed to a wedding in the United States. She wants an additional wedding in the Middle East so that her extended family and friends could attend. It's not easy for Iranians to get travel visas to the United States. The two oddities to me are: (1) if we're not having an Islamic wedding, then we're breaking a law punishable by death. Why would you want so many people to know that? The fewer who know, the safer. If all these other people aren't at the wedding, she could just tell them it was Islamic and they wouldn't know the difference. (2) why the insistence on UAE, Egypt, Lebanon, etc., when Turkey, which is just as accessible to Iran as those other countries, allows interfaith civil marriage? If the reason for wanting a second ceremony in the Middle East is accessibility for family and friends, then what's wrong with Turkey? Iran and Turkey border each other. As for an interfaith Islamic wedding, she objected to the progressive qazis I found in California (she didn't want a woman to officiate, as that would be against Islam), D.C. (no gay imams), and England (no explanation given).

Edited December 14, 2015 by Jefezen

[Amelie1980]

"You offered her weddings in the USA, the UK and more liberal Muslim countries where you would be completely safe, but she wont have it. She is pushing Muslim countries that are intolerant and/or dangerous? I'm sorry but trust your gut and dont go back to her. There is just something not right about this."

 

She agreed to a wedding in the United States. She wants an additional wedding in the Middle East so that her extended family and friends could attend. It's not easy for Iranians to get travel visas to the United States. The two oddities to me are: (1) if we're not having an Islamic wedding, then we're breaking a law punishable by death. Why would you want so many people to know that? The fewer who know, the safer. If all these other people aren't at the wedding, she could just tell them it was Islamic and they wouldn't know the difference. (2) why the insistence on UAE, Egypt, Lebanon, etc., when Turkey, which is just as accessible to Iran as those other countries, allows interfaith civil marriage? If the reason for wanting a second ceremony in the Middle East is accessibility for family and friends, then what's wrong with Turkey? Iran and Turkey border each other. As for an interfaith Islamic wedding, she objected to the progressive qazis I found in California (she didn't want a woman to officiate, as that would be against Islam), D.C. (no gay imams), and England (no explanation given).

 

There is nothing wrong with England to have an additional wedding.

 

I have been to Turkey, it was a nice place, alcohol was widely consumed and available, so although an Islamic country, it was very westernised, particularly in Istanbul.

 

UAE is a very strict, Lebanon and Egypt are just dangerous choices. Egypt not so much as Lebanon but even so.....

[kidm]

Form 1-20 is the certificate of eligibility for a student visa that is provided by the institution you are attending (I am guessing she is on an F-1 visa) and I can guarantee you there is a time limit on it. I know that for a fact. All student visas have a maximum time you are expected to finish the course (for undergrad degrees you are given 5 years usually- 4 years for the degree and a year for OPT if you so choose).

 

If you have to extend duration of education after expiration of your visa for whatever reason, you have to return to the embassy in your home country with a new and valid I-20. No institution in the United States can extend your visa. You can't just keep enrolling in the same course and extending it. That is considered fraud and no institution will allow that. She is looking to get into grad school because she knows that and time is probably not on her side.

 

The only reason international students fear leaving the country is because they are out of status (visa expired or no longer enrolled in the school listed on their I-20, or they are abusing the system in some way- examplenot taking the required number of credit hours required per the I-20, etc.). It sounds like her immigration status is suspect.

[Jefezen]

Yes, she's here on an F-1, previously a J-1 when she was briefly working. She claims that there are several students who have been taking the same English class off the I-20 for several years, including an older Chinese woman who is waiting for her American-born son to turn 18 so that he can sponsor her. Maybe non-degree programs provide a loophole?

[kidm]

Simple answer: NO. The I-20 and the grant of a student visa are two separate processes. You can get an I-20 and still be denied a student visa. The school doesn't have control over that process. The student visa for any course of study is for a FIXED duration of time. Once the visa expires, you have to go back to your home country with a valid I-20 to renew. You can't just stay in the U.S. and keep enrolling in the same course to keep your visa. It is impossible. There are no loopholes. What she is describing would require a conspiracy to circumvent U.S. immigration laws between the school and the immigration officers in the U.S. embassy in the home country. How likely is that?

 

Think of the I-20 as just a visa documentation that you have to obtain from your school to get your visa. Because an F-1 visa is a nonimmigrant visa, it has an expiration date. A fixed duration of time you are allowed to stay in the United States to complete your studies. You cannot extend the visa. If you need more time, you go back home with your new visa documentation in hand (i.e. I-20) to reapply. That is how it works.

 

Getting an I-20 on a non-degree program is actually more difficult and very very rare. The school/academic department has to provide proof that it meets certain rigorous standards per the "full course of study" requirement under the relevant immigration statute. Most schools don't even issue I-20s for non-degree students.

 

The only way F-1 students (both in and out of status) can "bypass" the requirement to return to their country after their visa expires to renew is to apply for an adjustment of status through family sponsorship as an immediate relative of a U.S. citizen (includes spouses and parents of U.S. citizens who are 21 years or older-NOT 18 YEARS OLD LIKE SHE CLAIMED) or by winning the green card lottery.

 

I should add- some F-1 students decide to remain in the country without being considered out of status even after their visa expires by continuing full time study but the only catch is once you leave the country, you need to get a new visa to come back in and they don't want to risk a denial so they stay here and never leave until they have the opportunity to adjust by marrying a U.S. citizen or someone else who is eligible to petition for them.

Edited December 15, 2015 by kidm
adding another point

[Jefezen]

I should add- some F-1 students decide to remain in the country without being considered out of status even after their visa expires by continuing full time study but the only catch is once you leave the country, you need to get a new visa to come back in and they don't want to risk a denial so they stay here and never leave until they have the opportunity to adjust by marrying a U.S. citizen or someone else who is eligible to petition for them.

 

Then this is probably what she's doing, as well as the other students she described as having been here for several years in the same non-degree program. As long as they never leave, and continue enrolling in the same class, they can effectively remain here indefinitely.

[Amelie1980]

Then this is probably what she's doing, as well as the other students she described as having been here for several years in the same non-degree program. As long as they never leave, and continue enrolling in the same class, they can effectively remain here indefinitely.

 

Religious differences aside, that sounds as dodgy as hell. Do you want to be involved in that?

 

She's hanging around trying to get on another course or find someone to marry her to get another visa. Now we know why she is so eager to set aside Islam for the purpose of marriage.

 

I wouldn't want to enable someone to get a green card and have to travel to dangerous countries for her family to attend a second wedding when there are safe alternatives.

 

You're well out of that situation. Don't go back.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Amelie1980

[kidm]

What you are describing means the school keeps issuing bogus I-20s for a program the student has already completed, which is highly unlikely. I guess a student could technically remain in the U.S. as a career student, never ever leave the U.S. and keep enrolling in different programs. I doubt U.S. schools would continue to issue I-20s indfinitely in such a case. They would probably flag for USCIS after awhile.

 

The way it usually happens for those trying to game the system is they end up being out of status and then find a means to get back in status, usually through marriage to a U.S. ctiizen.

[Amelie1980]

What you are describing means the school keeps issuing bogus I-20s for a program the student has already completed, which is highly unlikely. I guess a student could technically remain in the U.S. as a career student, never ever leave the U.S. and keep enrolling in different programs. I doubt U.S. schools would continue to issue I-20s indfinitely in such a case. They would probably flag for USCIS after awhile.

 

The way it usually happens for those trying to game the system is they end up being out of status and then find a means to get back in status, usually through marriage to a U.S. ctiizen.

 

I can't believe the hard time the OP was given over this. People saying she was doing all the compromising and he was just being too over cautious and what bending is he willing to do for her?

 

I immediately smelt a rat and his instincts were correct. A highly observant Muslim just agrees to throw it all away & raise non Muslim children all for a man she just met a few months ago. No one thought that was a massive red flag?

 

Now it turns out she has an ulterior motive. she's likely overstayed her visa, keeps doing the same course in order to stay here and she will eventually have to have to go home unless she can get on a masters programme or marry a US citizen.

 

The other massive red flags people ignored is that she insisted on a second wedding in Muslim countries that are either known to be very strict or are dangerous e.g Lebanon. Point blank refusing safe alternatives in which case the second marriage is likely to be Islamic which the OP may have had no choice ti go through with while in one of those countries.

 

Op you are well shot. Let her find someone else to enable her new visa if she can.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Amelie1980

[Jefezen]

I just ran into her randomly at a restaurant. As I was leaving, I noticed her seated by a window with her English school classmates. I am surprised that I did not notice her sooner. I was seated perpendicular to her, only three tables away. I was looking at my plate, my phone, and the tables immediately to my left and right the whole time, so that's probably why I didn't see her until the end. It was a bit jarring, but my heart didn't flutter or skip a beat. Nor did we make direct eye contact, although I'm guessing that she saw me at some point. She was seated in such a way that she faced my left profile.

 

I am mentioning this because I wonder in such situations whether these chance meetings are fateful and hold some kind of deeper meaning, or whether they're just mere happenstance that don't merit a second thought. It just seems almost too coincidental to be mere coincidence. And when I noticed her, I had just finished texting my friend about a social event tonight where we intend to meet women.