Any causes for concern here?

[Karine26]

I joined OkC about a month and a half ago. The very next day I met the guy I'm dating now. He did everything right (and still is mostly). He took me to brunch on the 1st date, wouldn't let me pay, took me to a nice dinner on the next two dates, wouldn't let me pay, cooked for me on Saturday after over 5 weeks of dating, sets up dates while we are on dates, let me know after the first date he was interested, lets me know when he's going to be busy and why, slept on the couch when I went over Saturday after realizing we were talking until 3am (while drinking wine so he offered for me to stay over). The next morning offered to order me food...just an overall sweetheart. Not to mention a nice career and family life too! It took him 4 weeks to give me a kiss and Saturday was the first time we made out (no sex yet).He said he's really shy which I think is cute because I think shy guys are more genuine. I'm team nice guy all the way!!

 

Now to the concerns....I was talking to him about my Coworkers, which I do a lot bc they are super entertaining, and was telling him about my Coworker who has 3 boyfriends and how they found out about each other and are fighting over her. He was interested at first and then says (with anger) "That's crazy!! If you are dating other guys just let me know now and I'll stop talking to you!...I mean, we have been on multiple dates for over a month.." All this happened while he was giving me a foot massage lol I laughed and said "whoa!!..." and then said "No I'm not dating anyone else (bc I'm not) but I just assume that people from Online are dating others until a conversation is had bc it is less disappointing that way." He agreed and said he hates dating and likes to be in relationships and he is looking for the real thing. So cute. But why did he get so angry?? Also, how do I know he really likes me or he just wants to be in a relationship? I DO feel like he likes me...but people can be tricky. Kind of like when a girl says she wants to be married...like any guy will do she just wants to be married lol

 

A 2nd concern are all these plans with "A friend". Last night he asked me what I was doing and mentions he's going to dinner with "a friend". I don't care at this point but someday I might lol I never word that I'm going to dinner with "a friend". I always say "MY friend" or "MY friend Juli". He usually sends me a text during the time he says he is with these "friends." I answer but not too much bc if he's out he should be out having fun. I almost think he's doing it bc he wants me to react which is a big turn off. You guys may know the reasoning more than me. I also may be a little naive at times, I guess. If he wants to keep dating others that is fine with me because good looking guys with potential still message me Online I just haven't been answering them. But I'm confused then why have that angry exclusivity talk (if that is what it was).

 

On Sunday before I left he said he was going to go watch football and visit his favorite bartender Trish. I didn't say one word (didn't give it a second thought actually) and then he says "what?? I can't go visit Trish??!" I laughed and was like "huh? You can go visit whoever you want!!" and laughed again. I'm honest when I said it didn't bother me but him maybe wanting a reaction from me DOES bother me. That is childish behavior. He is almost 31.

 

He looked at my profile again yesterday after over a month (Since Oct 28th)

 

I know his last girlfriend over a year ago cheated on him and they lived together so ...are those signs he is bringing baggage or just used to drama? Or am I over analyzing? I work in the Psych field so yes I do tend to analyze situations.

[kendahke]

He was interested at first and then says (with anger) "That's crazy!! If you are dating other guys just let me know now and I'll stop talking to you!...I mean, we have been on multiple dates for over a month.." He agreed and said he hates dating and likes to be in relationships and he is looking for the real thing.

 

I'd have asked him right there and then "so, how about it? Is that what you want? Let's cut to the chase right now and have a talk about it." Seems like an open door to me.

 

A 2nd concern are all these plans with "A friend". Last night he asked me what I was doing and mentions he's going to dinner with "a friend". I don't care at this point but someday I might lol I never word that I'm going to dinner with "a friend". I always say "MY friend" or "MY friend Juli". He usually sends me a text during the time he says he is with these "friends." I answer but not too much bc if he's out he should be out having fun. I almost think he's doing it bc he wants me to react which is a big turn off. You guys may know the reasoning more than me. I also may be a little naive at times, I guess. If he wants to keep dating others that is fine with me because good looking guys with potential still message me Online I just haven't been answering them. But I'm confused then why have that angry exclusivity talk (if that is what it was).

 

It rather smells like he's playing jealousy games, which is a bit immature, instead of being up front. You can always ask him "so, what are your friends' names?"

 

On Sunday before I left he said he was going to go watch football and visit his favorite bartender Trish. I didn't say one word (didn't give it a second thought actually) and then he says "what?? I can't go visit Trish??!" I laughed and was like "huh? You can go visit whoever you want!!" and laughed again. I'm honest when I said it didn't bother me but him maybe wanting a reaction from me DOES bother me. That is childish behavior. He is almost 31.

 

That was his guilt reproaching him. You didn't say anything or make any reactive gesture? Yeah, he's playing childish jealousy-provoking games.

 

He looked at my profile again yesterday after over a month (Since Oct 28th)

 

I know his last girlfriend over a year ago cheated on him and they lived together so ...are those signs he is bringing baggage or just used to drama? Or am I over analyzing? I work in the Psych field so yes I do tend to analyze situations.

 

What does your gut and your education tell you?

 

I think it's time you had a talk with him, since he's busy muddying the waters with his mixed signals. Either he wants exclusivity and the rigors of relationship with you or he just wants to play stupid, childish jealousy games with you. He needs to pick a lane and stay in it.

Edited December 8, 2015 by kendahke

[winny]

I think all your thoughts n gut feelings are on point. But its been only 1.5 months... Enjoy the dates... See how the sex is... Evaluate him some more... Don't get into a relationship or ask for one yet. Guys say all sort of things n can vanish the next day without notice... LOL

Date other men if u want to.

[Karine26]

I think all your thoughts n gut feelings are on point. But its been only 1.5 months... Enjoy the dates... See how the sex is... Evaluate him some more... Don't get into a relationship or ask for one yet. Guys say all sort of things n can vanish the next day without notice... LOL

Date other men if u want to.

 

Yes, I'm leaning towards this. I didn't go into detail with questions bc I think it is a little early to have a full on discussion. I just found out what his last name was on our last date lol

[TheTraveler]

Waits a month to get the courage to kiss you. Gets angry over nothing. Tries to make you jealous. Now he's stalking you.

 

This relationship sounds like a lot of fun!

 

[Karine26]

Waits a month to get the courage to kiss you. Gets angry over nothing. Tries to make you jealous. Now he's stalking you.

 

This relationship sounds like a lot of fun!

 

 

hahahaha see this is why I posted. Different perspectives. Good points tho!!

[Space Ritual]

Sounds to me like he is exasperated you haven't given in to sex yet.

 

I'm saying that as you know we guys tend to think with something other than our brains and by mentioning a 2nd "Friend" he is in backhanded way trying to pressure you for sex with a thinly veiled warning that if you don't give it up soon he is gonna be heading down the road and get it off somebody else who will.

 

Probably not what you want to hear of course but you must remember we men have much more fragile egos than we will ever admit. So the Knight In Shining Armor act that melted away in an instant was a pretty good indicator that he figures whatever you have is about to run it's course. He does not want to work this hard without an actual reward. I know it is convoluted thinking but the nice guy act didn't work so now he is going to be a jerk and see how far that gets him.

 

Sorry to be so matter of fact but again we men have really fragile egos and are more apt to go the path of least resistance in a situation like this.

 

All he wants is a bang. And since you aren't having it, he is going to go opposite end of the spectrum and workshop that one on you.

[Karine26]

Sounds to me like he is exasperated you haven't given in to sex yet.

 

I'm saying that as you know we guys tend to think with something other than our brains and by mentioning a 2nd "Friend" he is in backhanded way trying to pressure you for sex with a thinly veiled warning that if you don't give it up soon he is gonna be heading down the road and get it off somebody else who will.

 

Probably not what you want to hear of course but you must remember we men have much more fragile egos than we will ever admit. So the Knight In Shining Armor act that melted away in an instant was a pretty good indicator that he figures whatever you have is about to run it's course. He does not want to work this hard without an actual reward. I know it is convoluted thinking but the nice guy act didn't work so now he is going to be a jerk and see how far that gets him.

 

Sorry to be so matter of fact but again we men have really fragile egos and are more apt to go the path of least resistance in a situation like this.

 

All he wants is a bang. And since you aren't having it, he is going to go opposite end of the spectrum and workshop that one on you.

 

Then why did it take him 4 weeks to even kiss me and why did he insist on sleeping on the couch on Saturday night?? I don't think a month and a half is a long wait at all...

[xcupid]

You had an opportunity to have a talk about exclusivity and missed it. His behavior seems normal enough but are you both clear on what you have here - is it just dating or are you in a relationship? He may be testing you to see what you think about that.

[kendahke]

Yes, I'm leaning towards this. I didn't go into detail with questions bc I think it is a little early to have a full on discussion. I just found out what his last name was on our last date lol

 

He is the one who opened the door to this discussion--you didn't have to. I think that had you had it, you'd be a lot clearer on what he thinks instead of being clear on what we think.

 

If he made that big of a stink about something that has no connection to him whatsoever and justified it by saying

he hates dating and likes to be in relationships and he is looking for the real thing

, then that was your clue to get clear with him on what he wants from you. Instead, you played coy and it has now backfired on you, hence you being here asking us

Or am I over analyzing?

 

Now he's gone full bore into vengeance mode... a pretty childish reaction for someone who spent over a month building up a false construct about who he is and what he's about.

[Space Ritual]

Then why did it take him 4 weeks to even kiss me and why did he insist on sleeping on the couch on Saturday night?? I don't think a month and a half is a long wait at all...

 

"Chivalry Is Not Dead" syndrome. He wanted to try to impress upon you that he was "Not That Type of Guy"...when in fact he was. Hence why he is so squirrelly now. You didn't play along so now he is pissed he didn't score. In his mind he put in too much work and didn't get into your pants and he felt emasculated by it so then he drops the 2nd friend line on you so he could gauge if you were going to drop trou right then and there.

 

You might think 6 weeks is a short amount of time. to a guy trying to get laid it is 6 weeks he could have spent taking multiple skanks home from bars trying to prove to himself he wasn't a 1 Pump Chump.

 

Again I know it seems horrific to even contemplate that position but I would submit to you that it's right out of the playbook of working too hard to get laid. Yes we men are that shallow....And I will be the first to admit in my youth I was much more shallow than even that. Think "Cretin" and multiply that by 1000 and that was me, and a lot of other guys.

 

If you actually do run into a good guy that will not pull this on you hold onto him like Grim Death, because there are very few of them walking the Earth.

[Karine26]

He is the one who opened the door to this discussion--you didn't have to. I think that had you had it, you'd be a lot clearer on what he thinks instead of being clear on what we think.

 

If he made that big of a stink about something that has no connection to him whatsoever and justified it by saying , then that was your clue to get clear with him on what he wants from you. Instead, you played coy and it has now backfired on you, hence you being here asking us

 

Now he's gone full bore into vengeance mode... a pretty childish reaction for someone who spent over a month building up a false construct about who he is and what he's about.

 

Actually it hasn't been that long so I didn't embellish on the conversation bc I'm not even sure what I want yet. So I don't feel any opportunity was missed. I'm still trying to figure things out myself.

[Karine26]

"Chivalry Is Not Dead" syndrome. He wanted to try to impress upon you that he was "Not That Type of Guy"...when in fact he was. Hence why he is so squirrelly now. You didn't play along so now he is pissed he didn't score. In his mind he put in too much work and didn't get into your pants and he felt emasculated by it so then he drops the 2nd friend line on you so he could gauge if you were going to drop trou right then and there.

 

You might think 6 weeks is a short amount of time. to a guy trying to get laid it is 6 weeks he could have spent taking multiple skanks home from bars trying to prove to himself he wasn't a 1 Pump Chump.

 

Again I know it seems horrific to even contemplate that position but I would submit to you that it's right out of the playbook of working too hard to get laid. Yes we men are that shallow....And I will be the first to admit in my youth I was much more shallow than even that. Think "Cretin" and multiply that by 1000 and that was me, and a lot of other guys.

 

If you actually do run into a good guy that will not pull this on you hold onto him like Grim Death, because there are very few of them walking the Earth.

 

haha my goal in life is to not become this cynical. Like ever.

 

But he can think all he wants I told him from the beginning I do not have casual sex and that he would not be getting laid anytime soon so if that is his goal sux for him

 

And childish games actually make me want to walk, not try harder. So lose lose for him if this is his way of thinking, which I know there are guys that do think like this but he's so damn shy I kind of doubt it. He doesn't even drink or go to bars. Saturday was the 1st time I went to his apartment because until then we had actual public dates so why he would be frustrated he wasn't getting any when there was really no opportunity (or when he was too shy to even kiss me) makes no sense to me.

[Space Ritual]

But he can think all he wants I told him from the beginning I do not have casual sex and that he would not be getting laid anytime soon so if that is his goal sux for him

 

And right there is your answer. He didn't believe you. He thought he was going to show you he was different and you didn't follow the script as he thought it was going to pan out.

 

You said he was 31? That is also very telling. 30 is a watershed mark for many men. I always thought it was an Old Wives Tale until I turned 30. I'm Fifty One now but when I was 30 and 31 I was a total mess trying to plant my sin stick into any woman with a heartbeat. Sounds crazy I know but once we make 30 we start looking at our hairline and our little beer belly and think we'll never get laid again. Then someone we like comes along and we try to be coy and then it backfires so we lash out. Seriously I am not the only guy this has happened to. I just may be one of the few that will admit it on an internet forum. lol

 

 

 

Maybe you can use something like this for a Doctoral Thesis in the Psych Field? I'm sure there would be plenty of subjects worth studying that will make your eyes roll with incredulity...

[Karine26]

And right there is your answer. He didn't believe you. He thought he was going to show you he was different and you didn't follow the script as he thought it was going to pan out.

 

You said he was 31? That is also very telling. 30 is a watershed mark for many men. I always thought it was an Old Wives Tale until I turned 30. I'm Fifty One now but when I was 30 and 31 I was a total mess trying to plant my sin stick into any woman with a heartbeat. Sounds crazy I know but once we make 30 we start looking at our hairline and our little beer belly and think we'll never get laid again. Then someone we like comes along and we try to be coy and then it backfires so we lash out. Seriously I am not the only guy this has happened to. I just may be one of the few that will admit it on an internet forum. lol

 

Maybe you can use something like this for a Doctoral Thesis in the Psych Field? I'm sure there would be plenty of subjects worth studying that will make your eyes roll with incredulity...

 

I definitely believe that there are many guys like that. Lots. lol But I seriously don't get these vibes from him. I have been analyzing behavior for years (not to say I can't be wrong). I have been right about every guy I have dated so far. My combination of women intuition and my educational background is why I put on my profile that I can spot a douche bag a mile away so don't even waste my time trying to fool me lmao and I mean it

 

I do see him getting angry as a flag though. I'm leaning towards bc his last gf cheated on him and he wanted to marry her so he is sensitive when it comes to dating and trust. We would have to have a good talk about that if it becomes more serious.

[Mrin]

Okay a few thoughts:

 

On the "angry" exclusivity talk: what you described doesn't really sound angry to me. Sounds more like is was just impassioned. This one shouldn't really concern you IMHO. It could be a number of things: 1) you struck a nerve (we men aren't really good at controlling our reactions when our nerves are struck) or 2) he interpreted your comments as saying how lucky your friend was to have 3 guys fighting over her and he found that repugnant or 3) the thought you might be playing games and your work friend was really you. Anyhow, this is a roundabout way of saying that I could totally see me reacting that way in the early "limbo days" of a relationship with a girl that I really fancied. And I am by no means loony! Well, at least not in that sort of way. ;-)

 

The "Trish" Thing: This is either game playing or a really bad sense of humor. Since he's done the My Friend thing a bunch, I'm more inclined to say it is childish game playing. Something to be concerned about... except....

The Real Issue Here: Here's the real issue - you guys have entered this stunted proto-relationship period and it is mostly his fault. You guys have been seeing each other for about a month. Multiple and long dates. You've slept at his house (on his couch). You probably talk for hours on the phone or chat or text or in person. But he only just kissed you. You JUST found out his last name. You haven't had any real sex or physical intimacy. Yet you both have invested a lot of time together. But your profile (and maybe his) is still active on OKC.

 

Can you see that you're in this stunted limbo phase? His gentlemanliness has slowed things from progressing that it is really too early to have the exclusivity conversation but... still there are unspoken expectations that are starting to take root.

 

What you should do: you guys really should have a conversation. Maybe not about exclusivity but just what the mutual expectations are. Just be upfront and steer clear of any games. I think he really likes you.

 

A word of caution: I've been in this stunted limbo stage before and yes, it was my fault. Speaking for myself, this is a very dangerous stage - I used to vacillate between "all in" and "f*** it!" He's trying to figure out where you two stand and the slightest puff of wind can send him one way or the other. I could definitely see him lining up backup plans right this very second. It is a defense mechanism. If he's any good at OLD he should be able to have a plethora of women on standby pretty quickly.

 

Anyhow, long post but you should just have a really honest conversation with him. Say what you want, not what you think he wants to hear. Honest and direct communication goes a long way right now.

 

Best of luck!

 

Mrin

[TheTraveler]

 

And childish games actually make me want to walk, not try harder.

 

I would walk. These games and new types of games will reappear on down the road.

 

And you said you like shy guys because they are more genuine. Has what you've seen been genuine at all? He's all over the map.

Edited December 9, 2015 by TheTraveler

[Mrin]

And right there is your answer. He didn't believe you. He thought he was going to show you he was different and you didn't follow the script as he thought it was going to pan out.

 

You said he was 31? That is also very telling. 30 is a watershed mark for many men. I always thought it was an Old Wives Tale until I turned 30. I'm Fifty One now but when I was 30 and 31 I was a total mess trying to plant my sin stick into any woman with a heartbeat. Sounds crazy I know but once we make 30 we start looking at our hairline and our little beer belly and think we'll never get laid again. Then someone we like comes along and we try to be coy and then it backfires so we lash out. Seriously I am not the only guy this has happened to. I just may be one of the few that will admit it on an internet forum. lol

 

Naw man. If the dude wanted to get laid he would have put the moves on her. Come on, if you can't seduce a woman after a 3am talking all night at your house session at 31, then you don't have any skills. The most erotic part of a woman's body is her brain and if you have uninterrupted access to it for an entire evening, he should have been able to at least try to seduce her if he wanted to. Even if he didn't seduce her he would have laid some serious groundwork if getting laid was his main focus.

 

Don't get me wrong - I totally understand and agree with the death by p***y phase that we men go through. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt. I just don't think that's at play here. Or he's really inept. ;-)

[TheTraveler]

Naw man. If the dude wanted to get laid he would have put the moves on her. Come on, if you can't seduce a woman after a 3am talking all night at your house session at 31, then you don't have any skills.

 

He wants to get laid badly. He's waiting for her to lay naked on the bed and tell him to come **** me. And even when that happens he's probably doesn't know what to do. He's totally inept.

 

[Karine26]

Okay a few thoughts:

 

On the "angry" exclusivity talk: what you described doesn't really sound angry to me. Sounds more like is was just impassioned. This one shouldn't really concern you IMHO. It could be a number of things: 1) you struck a nerve (we men aren't really good at controlling our reactions when our nerves are struck) or 2) he interpreted your comments as saying how lucky your friend was to have 3 guys fighting over her and he found that repugnant or 3) the thought you might be playing games and your work friend was really you. Anyhow, this is a roundabout way of saying that I could totally see me reacting that way in the early "limbo days" of a relationship with a girl that I really fancied. And I am by no means loony! Well, at least not in that sort of way. ;-)

 

The "Trish" Thing: This is either game playing or a really bad sense of humor. Since he's done the My Friend thing a bunch, I'm more inclined to say it is childish game playing. Something to be concerned about... except....

 

The Real Issue Here: Here's the real issue - you guys have entered this stunted proto-relationship period and it is mostly his fault. You guys have been seeing each other for about a month. Multiple and long dates. You've slept at his house (on his couch). You probably talk for hours on the phone or chat or text or in person. But he only just kissed you. You JUST found out his last name. You haven't had any real sex or physical intimacy. Yet you both have invested a lot of time together. But your profile (and maybe his) is still active on OKC.

 

Can you see that you're in this stunted limbo phase? His gentlemanliness has slowed things from progressing that it is really too early to have the exclusivity conversation but... still there are unspoken expectations that are starting to take root.

 

What you should do: you guys really should have a conversation. Maybe not about exclusivity but just what the mutual expectations are. Just be upfront and steer clear of any games. I think he really likes you.

 

A word of caution: I've been in this stunted limbo stage before and yes, it was my fault. Speaking for myself, this is a very dangerous stage - I used to vacillate between "all in" and "f*** it!" He's trying to figure out where you two stand and the slightest puff of wind can send him one way or the other. I could definitely see him lining up backup plans right this very second. It is a defense mechanism. If he's any good at OLD he should be able to have a plethora of women on standby pretty quickly.

 

Anyhow, long post but you should just have a really honest conversation with him. Say what you want, not what you think he wants to hear. Honest and direct communication goes a long way right now.

 

Best of luck!

 

Mrin

 

 

In my opinion you make the most sense lol I did feel like he could have been reacting that way because he thought I was glorifying her situation. That makes so much sense. I wasn't though. I was just trying to say that some guys don't walk away from Dramatic situations as they claim they do.

 

The Trish and friend thing....I honestly think its a game as well. As I said before when he is out with these friends he sends me multiple texts and when the last time I told him to get off of his phone and focus on his friends he wrote back "Oh I guess that is my que to shut up? lol" If he was on actual dates he would not be on his phone- he has his phone out when we are on dates but doesn't pay attention to it. It reminds me of the last guy I dated who would constantly talk about how hot girls hit on him all the time (even though he was average and a little chubby) and he later admitted it wasn't true but he said that bc he was tired of guys hitting on me in front of him and it was a passive aggressive way to get back at me (which I already knew lol) I didn't like him at first bc I wasn't attracted to him at all but he was so nice I started to fall for him. Those insecure games were a complete turnoff, though! I feel like that is in the same category of what's happening here. He wants a reaction. I never give one and I'm comfortable that he is out with friends & even if he is dating.

 

 

About our time spent together, I thought it was cute that he was taking things slow and too shy to kiss me. Idk I tend to like more of a shy guy bc as I said before they seem more genuine IMO. And I normally don't ask last names and out of all the guys I have dated I find it an odd question so I don't typically ask right away and guys don't seem to volunteer it. I didn't think that was that strange but maybe it is.

 

 

I have never Online dated before so I'm not sure what is to be expected of the profile situation. Again I didn't think 1.5 months was that long so is he expecting I don't go Online anymore? When I get messages I do read them but I don't respond basically bc there's really nothing to respond to (they just write "hi" or "hey") or I just don't have the time to respond to the ones who write something meaningful because they ask questions that require a lot of thought.

 

 

Honestly, its been 1.5 months I could take it or leave it so if he does have or decide to have back up plans oh well lol I learned not to become overly invested so soon, especially with OLD.

 

 

However, we did talk about what we wanted. He mentioned it again last night that he wants something serious, he wants a serious relationship & best friend (same as me), live with someone and to eventually get married and have children. He mentioned that on our first date and on Saturday night.

 

 

I am very honest and direct and have been so far. I will never say what I think someone wants to hear bc that causes nothing but problems in the end.

[Mrin]

OP - good on ya then. Sounds like you have some dialog going with him then.

 

As for the profile, I would say there is an expectation that it comes down once you say (not just him) that you want to work on something serious with him. It seems like you've had that conversations in theory. That you both want something serious. But what you haven't said is that you want to explore that something serious with each other. You don't have to say that if you don't feel it. But when you do, that's when it would be expected that the profile comes down.

 

That being said, we men are not the best communicators. He might be thinking that you've had that conversation already. What we think we say, what we actually say, and what was heard are 3 different things. LOL!

[Karine26]

 

That being said, we men are not the best communicators. He might be thinking that you've had that conversation already. What we think we say, what we actually say, and what was heard are 3 different things. LOL!

 

 

 

Hahaha good to know