Why some women stay single

December 5, 2015

Bottom line is that a woman has the explicit right to turn down whomever she wants for a date, whether it's dates one, two or three.

I wouldn't require any sympathy from someone under-emphasizing the fact that mutual interest in dating each other is required to get to the point of a relationship.

Exactly. A girl who has turned you down or failed to accept a date, place and time, doesn't see it as self-sabotage AT ALL. There is typically no regret for turning down a guy you are not interested in. If anything, it's a source of the frustration they feel sometimes. They have high numbers of asks from guys but not the type of guys they want to go out with. So conversely she sees it as taking the appropriate steps to get what she DOES want not what she DOES NOT want. A positive person will not even think twice and just keep it moving. A negative person will get tied up in the frustration of the overall situation sometimes--much like OP is here.

I think of the guys I've turned down as a step TOWARD what I want not away from it. Not saying that to be mean but dating is a process of selection. That's all.

December 5, 2015

You name it, I've done, LA. Cold approaches at parties, conferences, bookstores, etc., letting coworkers and friends know I'm looking, online dating, joining groups, volunteering.

**Not one thing has led to success, while some of my married friends have done none of this BS, and still found themselves in long term relationships, even married.*

Quote in asterisk.... what does that tell you then? Obviously your friends managed to find women who *made themselves available*, didn't *self-sabotage* and *met them half-way* ...sounds like more than halfway!

So what is this thread *really* about? That, despite putting in all this effort, YOU continue encountering women who don't wish to go out with you.

You are the common denominator, since again your friends have no problem meeting, dating and even marrying *available* women.

My advice would be to stop trying so hard. Sounds like much of your focus in life is put toward finding a girlfriend, a relationship.

You may subconsciously be giving off a vibe of desperation, and that is a turn off to women. To men too for that matter.

Enjoy being single, enjoy your life without a relationship. Employ a more flexible, laid back approach.....because clearly whatever you're doing now is not working...and turning women off.

Good luck........

Edited December 5, 2015 by katiegrl

December 5, 2015

That is exactly what I'm saying Ruby. I have a right to come on these boards and complain because I have done everything humanly possible proactively to bring the right woman into my life, without success. Getting a girlfriend for me is a matter of things that are outside of my control changing i.e. luck. For women, it is different. All they have to do is stand there and wait for a decent man to approach, and be receptive to his attempts to schedule a date. But many refuse to do that. They sit back, reject men like myself who are making an effort, then complain that they cannot find a man, as in the examples I cited. That makes no sense to me, and is inherently contradictory. That does not sit right with me.

The only part of your argument that makes any sense IMO is that women (I would say people) should be more open-minded. You didn't word it like that I know but you are saying if you do the right things, it should be acceptable to someone/more girls than it has been. I agree but unfortunately there are many parts of life that might be better if people were more open-minded and took a chance on someone who did the right things effort wise. This is your particular frustration with the dating process. Listen you can't control other people only yourself. So there are three things you can do to lessen your frustration:

*You can widen the pool of people you come into contract with for dating. It IS a numbers game. The wider the sample population, the better chance you have of running into the one who IS open-minded, will take a chance and thinks you are great.

*You can tailor your search more specifically to up so that you are meeting more open-minded and more like-minded women for you specifically.

*You can improve yourself in various ways (external, and attitude or thought process) to assist you in the process and stack the odds more in your favor than they are currently.

There is no point in getting mad at something you can't control or change--unless out of that frustration comes a strategy that helps YOU get what you want.

December 5, 2015

This thread is not anti-woman, as I said in the beginning.

I'm sorry, I know you "said" that but all the posts express anti-woman loud and clear!

some women contribute to their own inability to find a relationship.

Absolutely! Some PEOPLE - many in fact!! Contribute a lot to their own inability to find a relationship.

Compared to men, women have the dating world on a silver platter, have it infinitely easier than the struggling men, and it is just hypocritical to deny that. Totally.

And there you have it, another shining example of your negative, dehumanizing attitude about WOMEN.

:laugh:

Anyway, you just go right ahead and keep thinking along those lines. Meanwhile, we're happily falling in love with guys we like and who understand us as individual human beings!! Most ladies like that!! :love:

December 5, 2015

It is no more complicated than that. All women have to do to get dates is stand there and wait. I have had women themselves admit this to me. They hold all the cards in the dating game.

So wait, you are saying the person with the more PROACTIVE role typically has it harder?!? Whereas the one who's only option is to REACT has it easier in creating the dating life they want. That's hilarious. There are so many times it would be great to be in the drivers seat for dating--an option stereotypically women don't have. You can't pin this one on women having it easier to explain away the poor results you are getting.

I'll tell you one thing that will really help you (not ganging up on you as my first post said I really want to see you find love): change your attitude and your belief about this situation right away. It pits men against women, turns into a power thing and kinda makes women the "enemy" in your belief system. That will not amount to a good result for you. Honestly. For every problem you say men have with asking out, I'm sure women here could tell you one women have. It can be tough for both sexes. Bottom line, obviously "some" guys are having success with women. So there's something they are doing/have whatever that negates your belief system about this subject. Model them. Good luck. Honestly happy to help you work through your next dating adventure

Edited December 5, 2015 by Versacehottie

December 5, 2015

And there you have it, another shining example of your negative, dehumanizing attitude about WOMEN.

I'm having a hard time reconciling this as well. OP, there's some cognitive dissonance going on when you proclaim to want to be in a relationship with a woman, yet at the same time sound very negative, generalizing and demeaning towards women.

It makes me feel like you want to be in a relationship more for your benefit than for what it could mean to love and truly know another human being. If all you're doing is approaching women with the intent to hopefully get them to be in a relationship with you, then yeah your attitude makes sense. But I don't generally get the feeling that you approach women in order to get to know them on a human level.

This continued insistence on your part to say that women have it so easy in dating suggests to me that you need a bigger sample size of women whose experiences you can actually listen to and understand. Not just the anecdotal evidence of one or two.

December 5, 2015

This falls under - Interested people act interested.

The problem is women never reject by saying, "Sorry, I'm not interested" the preferred method is to keep frustrating the guy until he finally quits.

Its also one of the reasons that I am not in favor of a guy being expected to "chase" women all over creation. Now, in threads pertaining to initiation and pursuit you will rarely see women acknowledging this kind of behavior.

December 5, 2015

There is no such a thing about being too busy.

She is not that into you. She is not that interested in meeting you.

It's all there is into it.

Why make it 'some women's fault for being single'

When she comes across a man that interest her she will make time.

even if she is not aware of this herself. Sometimes a woman will be like "I'm busy" and not realize that it's the guy that likes her is someone she is not interested in. Happened to me.

Take this as a signal of " I'm not interested" and move on. And I'm the same, if a guy pursues me, I will make it 110% clear that I like him back, if I like him back. No games, no ambiguity. If I'm not interested in a guy, suddenly all these excuses come to mind, almost quite naturally. And FYI, just because some woman have been single for an exponential amount of time, doesn't mean she chooses it. She just hasn't met a guy that feels right for her. Cut a girl some slack and don't put them all in one category.

December 5, 2015

And there you have it, another shining example of your negative, dehumanizing attitude about WOMEN.

I'm having a hard time reconciling this as well. OP, there's some cognitive dissonance going on when you proclaim to want to be in a relationship with a woman, yet at the same time sound very negative, generalizing and demeaning towards women.

It makes me feel like you want to be in a relationship more for your benefit than for what it could mean to love and truly know another human being. If all you're doing is approaching women with the intent to hopefully get them to be in a relationship with you, then yeah your attitude makes sense. But I don't generally get the feeling that you approach women in order to get to know them on a human level.

As I said, I am just not one of those folks who thinks women can do no wrong in the dating game. It's as simple as that. Calling some women out when they play shenanigans, i.e. are being dishonest, inconsiderate, or inconsistent when it comes to dating is not anti-woman.

Frankly, I have been far more respectful of the women I have dated and attempted to date than they have been to me. In fact, I've been treated with a fair amount of unprevoked disrespect by them:

Let me tell you something: A year ago, I set up a dinner date with a girl I'd been dating for about three weeks. When I texted her that day to confirm, she didn't reply.

A week later, she sent me a long text, apologizing for being rude and inconsiderate, said she had been stressed with grad school, but had no right to do that, etc., and asked how I'm doing. She said if I'm still interested, she would like another chance, but if not, she understood. I accepted her apology, and rescheduled. You know what happened? She backed out of that date too!

December 5, 2015

As I said, I am just not one of those folks who thinks women can do no wrong in the dating game. It's as simple as that. Calling some women out when they play shenanigans, i.e. are being dishonest, inconsiderate, or inconsistent when it comes to dating is not anti-woman.

You're right, and neither am I, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a woman on this thread who'd say that "women can do no wrong." I'm not sure where you get that idea.

But for you to consistently downplay the struggle that women DO legitimately face in dating, to the point where you practically deny there IS a struggle, is dehumanizing and it makes women "the enemy," as Versace said. If you see women at the root of your singleness problem, I don't know how you're going to be able to so easily change horses mid-stream when you actually do find someone to be in a relationship with.

December 5, 2015

Let's get back to this, since it is the topic of the thread:

"This is why so many some women stay single. They refuse to meet men halfway in the pursuit phase."

Discussion supporting or refuting this assertion is welcomed. Thanks!

As a reminder, I'll direct members to this pinned announcement at the top of every forum on LoveShack.org.

Site-wide individual and group berating policy

December 5, 2015

This is why so many some women stay single.

Actually no. Many women stay single by choice.

I say this because there has been many threads this week where guys are demonstrating interest but the women they pursue refuse to meet 'em halfway. Refuse to make themselves available for a date. What is interesting is that often I read about this in threads written by women who complain about being single and unable to find a bf.

I'd theorise here that those women were not really interested in those guys. And many women can't find a boyfriend when they want one because they're not girlfriend material. But really has very little to do with being available.

If you really want a bf, you must make yourself available. If you are making it difficult for men to get one on one time with you, you have no business complaining about being single and unable to get a man. That's simple logic.

This is a simple assumption that the reason for not having a boyfriend is all about availability. The truth is, finding a guy to date is easy, finding one you want to spend time with, much harder. As I'm sure that's also true for men as well. The elusive connection is quite rare. Not everyone wants to settle for something that doesn't inspire them. Many women are also single by choice.

December 5, 2015

So wait, you are saying the person with the more PROACTIVE role typically has it harder?!? Whereas the one who's only option is to REACT has it easier in creating the dating life they want. That's hilarious.

That's exactly what I believe. Unless a woman is working 60hours a week, is disabled, or disfigured, there's no reason in the world she should have a hard time finding a man in real life. Not unless she refuses to meet her suitors halfway. Our culture is such that girls are not required to risk constant rejection to bring high quality men into their lives. A woman can go her entire life without knowing the sting of rejection that is a daily part of men's experience in the dating world. The only requirement women have in any of their dating interactions is to meet men halfway when they ask for dates. Yet many refuse to do that. Another example:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/560206-pursuing-relationship-not-going-anywhere

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/533230-no-response-after-first-date

Edited December 5, 2015 by oberkeat

December 5, 2015

That's exactly what I believe. Unless a woman is working 60hours a week, is disabled, or disfigured, there's no reason in the world she should have a hard time finding a man in real life. Not unless she refuses to meet her suitors halfway. Our culture is such that girls are not required to risk constant rejection to bring high quality men into their lives. A woman can go her entire life without knowing the sting of rejection that is a daily part of men's experience in the dating world. The only requirement women have in any of their dating interactions is to meet men halfway when they ask for dates. Yet many refuse to do that. Another example:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/560206-pursuing-relationship-not-going-anywhere

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/533230-no-response-after-first-date

oberkeat.... reading your posts .....I have a question which I hope you answer.

Do you really believe that a woman should accept a date with a man ...simply because he made the effort to ask her out? That is what it sounds like.

You made all this effort, the least she could do is go out with you! Lol, crazy thinking.

She didn't ask you to make the effort. She doesn't owe you anthing because you made the effort. Your effort does not *entitle* you to a date with her or any women.

Does how a woman actually *feels* about said man exist in your world? If not it should...because *that* is the criteria women use to determine whether or not to accept a date.

How she actually feels about him...NOT how much effort he is making.

As I said in a previous post, stop putting forth so much effort! It is not netting you positive results, so time to make a change.

Focus on you, being happy and content within ... change the negative self-defeating attitude...essentially changing the energy or vibe you generate....and things just might turn around for you.

Edited December 5, 2015 by katiegrl

December 5, 2015

As I said, I am just not one of those folks who thinks women can do no wrong in the dating game. It's as simple as that. Calling some women out when they play shenanigans, i.e. are being dishonest, inconsiderate, or inconsistent when it comes to dating is not anti-woman.

Frankly, I have been far more respectful of the women I have dated and attempted to date than they have been to me. In fact, I've been treated with a fair amount of unprevoked disrespect by them:

Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post

Let me tell you something: A year ago, I set up a dinner date with a girl I'd been dating for about three weeks. When I texted her that day to confirm, she didn't reply.

"A week later, she sent me a long text, apologizing for being rude and inconsiderate, said she had been stressed with grad school, but had no right to do that, etc., and asked how I'm doing. She said if I'm still interested, she would like another chance, but if not, she understood. I accepted her apology, and rescheduled. You know what happened? She backed out of that date too!"

I remember this thread. I started it because I was asking if anyone here would give a second chance to someone who has been completely ghosted.

The tables were turned in this instance so you cannot just make the assumptions you have in his thread about women in the dating game when men do it just the same.

And this was after four dates! I made myself available for him each and every time and when I got into contact with him a few days after our last date, NO RESPONSE until last week. Three months later?

I took your advice, I never responded to his request to go out on another date.

Genius advice! And I feel empowered because of it.

Edited December 5, 2015 by lilmissjava

December 5, 2015

Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
Let me tell you something: A year ago, I set up a dinner date with a girl I'd been dating for about three weeks. When I texted her that day to confirm, she didn't reply.

"A week later, she sent me a long text, apologizing for being rude and inconsiderate, said she had been stressed with grad school, but had no right to do that, etc., and asked how I'm doing. She said if I'm still interested, she would like another chance, but if not, she understood. I accepted her apology, and rescheduled. You know what happened? She backed out of that date too!"

I remember this thread. I started it because I was asking if anyone here would give a second chance to someone who has been completely ghosted.

The tables were turned in this instance so you cannot just make the assumptions you have in his thread about women in the dating game when men do it just the same.

And this was after four dates! I made myself available for him each and every time and when I got into contact with him a few days after our last date, NO RESPONSE until last week. Three months later?

I took your advice, I never responded to his request to go out on another date.

Genius advice! And I feel empowered because of it.

Frankly, I have read way more threads from women who DID make themselves available..... only to have the guy pull back or ghost .....than from unavailable women complaining they can't find a boyfriend...

You made the right decision lilmissjava....and glad you are doing well and moving on! :)

December 5, 2015

OP, if you think the woman in your example refuses to meet any man halfway, than you're right. She has no right to complain about being single. My guess is disinterest or lukewarm interest towards you though.

December 5, 2015

That's exactly what I believe. Unless a woman is working 60hours a week, is disabled, or disfigured, there's no reason in the world she should have a hard time finding a man in real life. Not unless she refuses to meet her suitors halfway. Our culture is such that girls are not required to risk constant rejection to bring high quality men into their lives. A woman can go her entire life without knowing the sting of rejection that is a daily part of men's experience in the dating world. The only requirement women have in any of their dating interactions is to meet men halfway when they ask for dates. Yet many refuse to do that. Another example:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/560206-pursuing-relationship-not-going-anywhere

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/533230-no-response-after-first-date

Follow the examples of guys who are having positive results. Adopt their belief systems, their mannerisms, their techniques. I don't want to downplay the obvious either because even good looking assh*les can make it to date one, so work on your look too. Sorry, this is brutal honesty. Women will meet you halfway under those conditions: ie copy guys who have NO PROBLEM getting women to meet them halfway. Or lower your own standards in terms of the women you are willing to date. Again, good luck. #Introspect.

Edited December 7, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
a bit rude ~T

December 5, 2015

I do think we are being somewhat harsh on the OP here.

Hey oberkeat, I did browse through your previous threads. There seems to be this pattern with you: You (actually) get initial interest from the woman. You make plans. Then when it comes time to actually meet, she vanishes on you. As much as I agree with the other posters that the common denominator is you, I can see how that has to be extremely frustrating. It's really frustrating when people don't keep their word and they don't even have the courtesy to get back to you. Hence the rather inflammatory title of his post.

I don't think people here are acknowledging how frustrating this situation looks from the OP's vantage point.

That said, my experience *as a guy who has a low flake rate* is that a big part of getting the woman to meet up is really about MOMENTUM. The truth is, at the very beginning, the other person just isn't likely to be that into you.

I was chatting with this girl I met this week. We have a crazy amount in common, so I asked if she'd like to meet for a drink. She said she was very busy studying for an exam that happens this Saturday, but might be able to take a study break. I said it might be better to wait until after her test and that there was no rush. A date where she's stressed and depressed about a test coming up probably wouldn't be a good idea. She said that might be great, and she'd see if she can move her Sunday schedule around. End of conversation that night.

A couple days later I text her and ask if she had any luck clearing time. She said she hadn't got around to it yet. I said no problem, let me know if you can get free. I'd really like to get to know you, and I'm flexible if another night works better. End of conversation that night.

Since then, I've heard nothing from her. If a date doesn't happen, I take no responsibility. I clearly demonstrated I was interested, I showed I was flexible with her schedule, but she put minimal effort in to move things forward and make herself available.

Look at what I quoted from this woman's vantage point OP. Most people, when it comes to someone they just made contact with, go by how they FEEL and not by their word. (I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just how I have observed it to be. I'm not even saying that the person in question is a bad person. They might be the most loyal person in the world to their friends and s/o's but you have to get there first) You were asking someone who is still a stranger to clear her schedule for you when her mind is off your interaction and now on her exams and probably the holidays also. That wasn't likely to go well.

I would have done a few things differently with this situation:

1. When she said that she might want a study break, I would have suggested a date and time right then and there. Hell you get her in a good enough mood so that she doesn't even have nerves of the exam! It's not your job to try to manage her schedule.

2. I would have texted her the next day, but instead to ask how her studying is coming along. Something low-pressure where she is likely to respond back and you and she could have a bit of a conversation. If you and she are chatting via text then meeting up for that drink is just a lot more natural.

3. Then when you and she are texting you can bring up the drink to celebrate.

See how much more natural that seems to be for her end to meet up?

Edited December 5, 2015 by Imajerk17

December 5, 2015

You were asking someone who is still a stranger to clear her schedule for you when her mind is off your interaction and now on her exams and probably the holidays. That wasn't likely to go well.

Not at all. If you read my post, you see that my words to her were, "I'm flexible if another night works better." I was flexible and gave her plenty of options that were respectful of whatever time commitments she had, and she refused to meet me halfway on any of that. I got zero cooperation from her. I take no responsibility for her inability or unwillingness to make herself available.

Edited December 5, 2015 by oberkeat

December 5, 2015

Not at all. If you read my post, you see that my words to her were, "I'm flexible if another night works better." I was flexible and gave her plenty of options that were respectful of whatever time commitments she had, and she refused to meet me halfway on any of that. I got zero cooperation from her.

OP, as I told you before, I understand your frustration, but you are missing the point here. I get that you were flexible and respectful. Her mind wasn't on finding time to be meeting you at this point though, it was on her exams and probably all her other stuff.

If on the other hand you had engaged her in a bit of conversation beforehand about how her studying was going and "how we have to go for a drink after to celebrate" (what I said in the last post about momentum) she may have very well scheduled a date with you then and there.

December 5, 2015

OP, as I mention before, I understand your frustration, but you are missing the point here. I get that you were flexible and respectful. Her mind wasn't on finding time to be meeting you at this point though, it was on her exams and probably all her other stuff.

If on the other hand you had engaged her in a bit of conversation beforehand about how her studying was going and "how we have to go for a drink after to celebrate" (what I said in the last post about momentum) she may have very well scheduled a date with you then and there.

She said she could take a study break, giving him the perfect opening to suggest and day, time and place but he said he'd rather wait.

She said she'd try to clear time Sunday (providing day) giving him the perfect opening to say suggest time and place, but instead he deferred.

What can ya do?

December 5, 2015

She said she could take a study break, giving him the perfect opening to suggest and day, time and place but he said he'd rather wait.
She said she'd try to clear time Sunday (providing day) giving him the perfect opening to say suggest time and place, but instead he deferred.
What can ya do?

If you read my post, I did everything that someone who is interested in someone would do to demonstrate interest and get something scheduled, with no cooperation, no help, and no specific or difinitive language on her part. What is stopping her from texting me between then and now saying, "Hey, oberkeat, how about Sunday at 7?" The fact is, she is an unavailable woman. You seem to think girls can do no wrong in the dating game and that everything is the guys fault if something doesn't get scheduled.

Edited December 5, 2015 by oberkeat

December 5, 2015

I can understand the frustration of always being ghosted but if I was constantly getting this outcome and nobody else was I wouldn't blame half the species for not recognising my qualities.

Women do plenty wrong when it comes to dating, I've been on dates with very hot but boring woman and they get dropped. I've spoke to women on OLD then never arranged a date because the conversation wasn't good enough or someone better came along. It happens to everyone not just guys.

As a guy I like being able to be proactive, I don't like the idea of having to wait around for the right person to come along like the OP seems to think woman can do.

At the end of the day both men and women can easily get a date if they are willing to lower their standards enough.

December 5, 2015

OP, as I told you before, I understand your frustration, but you are missing the point here. I get that you were flexible and respectful. Her mind wasn't on finding time to be meeting you at this point though, it was on her exams and probably all her other stuff.

If on the other hand you had engaged her in a bit of conversation beforehand about how her studying was going and "how we have to go for a drink after to celebrate" (what I said in the last post about momentum) she may have very well scheduled a date with you then and there.

I understand your frustration too but I think you are missing the point as well.

Her mind wasn't on finding time to be meeting, period. In spite of you doing your best, which sounds in black and white here, fine. I agree with Iamajerk about using momentum to your advantage and help your game. He's a good example of what I said, he gave you solid advice of how he gets a lot of his dates. On top of that, I know maybe you are having a rant but Iamajerk doesn't sound like a jerk--the undertone he has regarding expectations and approaches, etc just sounds more appealing. Copy guys who are having success. Simple

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