What happens when the attraction is gone?

[TaraMaiden2]

.....You can bring it back if that is what you truly want.

 

....And therein lies the very crux of the matter.....

[MuddyFootprints]

Here's my 'structural' advice. If you want a marriage with your husband, don't commit yourself to a timeline.

 

When you want an out, committing to X many days is a commitment to out. Always.

[remorseful_tab]

Thank you...you know, this made me cry. I honestly wondered if that was a real thing, if people felt the way you just said after 14 years. Because I don't know what it's like. And the thing is, my H wouldn't grab my thigh suggestively under the sheets. That isn't his behavior with me. Maybe if he had manhandled me a little over the years, I would feel different. But that would come naturally from a person comfortable with that behavior...right? Or perhaps it's our dynamic together. And now, if he did, I'm afraid that I wouldn't feel like you described. Even a little

 

You are right. A person can change. But not to an extent where his fundamental values are forever changed.

 

For example, I remember that one time in our home, I was doing some cleaning work. I was in pyajamas and no underwear. I was bending over and my butt crack became visible. My husband was standing behind and leering at the sight. When I realized and turned back, I saw him grinning. I said to him "You depraved bastard!!". And it turned me on immensely!

 

The way you describe your husband, I think he will be VERY UNCOMFORTABLE in doing something like this. The way you say he is scared to hurt you during sex, he may find this sort of behaviour disrespectful and immoral. And nothing you say will convince him otherwise. So no, he is not fundamentally capable of the sort of bedroom behaviour as I mentioned.

 

But thats fine too! A respectful man is always a catch.

 

But the thing is thats not what you want. You want something else. And he cannot give the things to you that you want from him because it is so at odds with the values he has grown up.

[Southern Sun]

I was thinking back over our history and realized that we have not had good, emotionally satisfying sex where I felt genuinely connected to him for at least 10 years, maybe longer.

 

He checks out during sex. He seems to go somewhere else inside his mind, like he's concentrating. There is no emotional communication. It started feeling distant, then I felt used. Now I feel repulsed.

 

Then there's the other stuff.

 

This just hit me like a ton of bricks, like I just realized it's not just me.

[TaraMaiden2]

Hell-oooooo "Ahaaaah" moment......

[Southern Sun]

He says he loves me outside the bedroom, he behaves lovingly, respectfully, intimately, outside the bedroom. He is engaged, caring, kind. There are the things I mentioned, some personality traits I don't find attractive. But in the bedroom, he's gone. It's been an elephant in the room and he's ignored it; I've been afraid to say something because I didn't want to hurt his feelings.

 

I guess what happened is, I've been with him and only him for 20 years. And then I had this affair and while yes, it was passionate, like affairs are, I did have emotionally-connected sex. He paid attention to me, we communicated, it was just different. And I realized my husband has just been gone.

[remorseful_tab]

You can bring it back if that is what you truly want.

 

I disagree with this.

 

I believe Southern Sun is telling the truth. She is not wanting her affair partner anymore. The time and distance has shown her that the affair was toxic and the AP was a selfish bastard who only wanted to get his rocks off (Pardon me Southern. I have read where you said that in the duration of the affair, it became more like a booty call to him)

 

But regardless of all this, she is not able to "fancy" her husband anymore. Infact, she never had that fancying her H stage ever. So if there was no mutual attraction to begin with, how can she create it now? Plus there are too many incompatibilities between the two that the affair has magnified. I don't know the dynamic of their relationship but my best guess is they were just being comfortable around each other.

 

What you are saying is that if there are some blokes you don't fancy, you can still become attracted to them given you two are thrown into the mix together.

 

Thats a crock of monkey****!

 

There are many men in my workplace that fancy me but they are the last person I think about. I am not superficial. But even their way of talking, the things they talk about attracts me the least. So should I, as an experiment, get together with one of them and see whether I develop some interest? By your theory attaction can develop if I am into it, right? Not happening. EVER.

 

I would understand if their chemistry was very good but over the years life eroded their attraction, then you have something you can work on. Try to find out what the other one wants out of life currently and assess how you can be a part of that journey. But when there has been nothing to begin with, it is impossible to manufacture it out of thin air.

[Southern Sun]

Yet another honest conversation just occurred.

 

I asked him - from your perspective, when was the last time YOU feel we had emotionally and physically fulfilling sex on a regular basis?

 

He said - I'm gonna have to think about that.

 

After an hour of conversation, we both reached back to when we were in college. And even that is in question.

 

I told him I felt that he had been checking out on me for years. He admitted that he had been doing that, which he puts down to some physical issues and anxiety. But he also claims that he felt I was withdrawn. Which came first? We don't know. All I do know is that, over time, I felt alone and used.

 

I said something big was missing. I asked him if he could recall his sex life prior to me, what it was like, what HE was like. I said, was it different? Was it good? He admitted that he used to have much better sex than we've had for years. And while I did not say this, I had much better sex in my affair. I did not have a lot of experience before him.

 

Remorseful, your post mentioned something about not being able to get back what you never had. I always questioned whether H and I had it to begin with. We were into each other in the beginning, but it was never fireworks. I guess you would hope you would at least start with fireworks, knowing it will fade.

[TaraMaiden2]

Unusually for me, I'm at a loss for words.

Not because I'm astounded, shocked, surprised, stunned.... But because, honestly, there's very little I can now add to expand on what I have already given as input.

 

This relationship, as I thought beyond salvage, turns out to have been a non-starter in the first place.

WHat is there to rescue, to re-build, to re-construct?

They say when the sex goes, then other means of comfort and closeness fill the space.

 

Well, not sure that's even the issue....

 

I get the impression you two have actually been platonic friends all this time, with the sex thrown in because it's apparently what couples do.

There is such an imbalance, a lack of connection between you physically, that I'm astounded you actually got this far.....

 

Now what?

[Southern Sun]

Hi TaraMaiden...I appreciate your replies.

 

He now says I took out of context some of the things he told me. He thinks I am trying to make excuses, looking for reasons to get out; I think he is minimizing, hiding from our issues.

 

It's really, really confusing. I know our marriage hasn't been all bad. However every time I try to say to him that I think there is a fundamental problem, he says he thinks I am trying to find a cop-out. He says he is willing to work on our issues. However I told him I'm not sure if I can. It's not that I don't think it wouldn't be ideal. I just don't know if I physically can do it. But then I look at these last 20 years and our lives and children and wonder if I'm just being selfish.

[TaraMaiden2]

Hi TaraMaiden...I appreciate your replies.

 

He now says I took out of context some of the things he told me. He thinks I am trying to make excuses, looking for reasons to get out; I think he is minimizing, hiding from our issues.

What is it they say...? "The best form of defence is attack"...? So you have found an issue about him you wish to resolve, but instead of validating your feelings and agreeing to explore and delve deeper, he's decided you're looking for things pick atm on purpose?

 

It's really, really confusing. I know our marriage hasn't been all bad. However every time I try to say to him that I think there is a fundamental problem, he says he thinks I am trying to find a cop-out.

Yes, it's called 'head in the sand' syndrome. Everything's fine while he can handle it, and he sees it as an issue coming mainly from 'your side'.

 

He says he is willing to work on our issues.

Emphasis on the 'our'. As long as they're not 'his' it's ok by him....

 

However I told him I'm not sure if I can. It's not that I don't think it wouldn't be ideal. I just don't know if I physically can do it. But then I look at these last 20 years and our lives and children and wonder if I'm just being selfish.

Oh look, for goodness' sake, life is actually all about being selfish.

We do a lot of things in our lives that are not based on altruism or self-sacrifice, but on personal benefit and advantage.

 

You had your affair, and that could be called, selfish.

He's accusing you rather than accepting his part in some matters; that's selfish.

Being selfish isn't the same as being cold-hearted and cruel, or uncaring.

People may read selfishness in leaving a marriage, but you sometimes have to ask which is the lesser of two "Evils" - staying, or going?

And remaining out of a sense of guilt, or 'because of...' is really not constructive and of 100% benefit to anyone involved, because you stay for the wrong reasons.

You stay out of a sense of duty, not because it's what in your heart of hearts, you really want.

[sandylee1]

Hi TaraMaiden...I appreciate your replies.

 

He thinks I am trying to make excuses, looking for reasons to get out; I think he is minimizing, hiding from our issues.

 

It's really, really confusing. I know our marriage hasn't been all bad. However every time I try to say to him that I think there is a fundamental problem, he says he thinks I am trying to find a cop-out. He says he is willing to work on our issues. .

 

 

SS,

 

 

I think if I were him, I'd also think you were looking for a reason to get out. It's like you're analyzing everything in the marriage as an excuse for why you were never happy and although you haven't said it directly......a reason for the affair.

 

 

Is it possible that you could both write down the sort of relationship you'd like in an ideal world. A kind of list of what you'd both look for in a partner if you were single.... like qualities and character traits.

 

 

It might give an insight of whether or not your marriage can become a good one for the both of you. Maybe he'll see your list and decide ....he just can't be that man and vice versa.

 

 

If you think I've been too harsh, I'll happily stay off your thread, but I'm trying to play a bit of devil's advocate here.

[TaraMaiden2]

SS,

....Is it possible that you could both write down the sort of relationship you'd like in an ideal world. A kind of list of what you'd both look for in a partner if you were single.... like qualities and character traits.

 

 

It might give an insight of whether or not your marriage can become a good one for the both of you. Maybe he'll see your list and decide ....he just can't be that man and vice versa.

 

 

If you think I've been too harsh, I'll happily stay off your thread, but I'm trying to play a bit of devil's advocate here.

 

Actually, that's a very sound idea.

It reminds me of one of the tasks we used to give couples during a pre-marriage workshop organised via the organisation I worked in, and declared as mandatory, by the church, for those wishing to marry in church...

 

We had a life list of priorities, within a marriage, and each member of a couple had to separately take their own copy of the list, cut it into strips (each strip bearing a 'priority') and put them in their order of preference.

Then, they had to compare notes and see where their priorities lay, in comparison to their partner's....

 

It's a good exercise....

[Southern Sun]

SS,

 

 

I think if I were him, I'd also think you were looking for a reason to get out. It's like you're analyzing everything in the marriage as an excuse for why you were never happy and although you haven't said it directly......a reason for the affair.

 

 

Is it possible that you could both write down the sort of relationship you'd like in an ideal world. A kind of list of what you'd both look for in a partner if you were single.... like qualities and character traits.

 

 

It might give an insight of whether or not your marriage can become a good one for the both of you. Maybe he'll see your list and decide ....he just can't be that man and vice versa.

 

 

If you think I've been too harsh, I'll happily stay off your thread, but I'm trying to play a bit of devil's advocate here.

 

No, I don't think you're being too harsh; I appreciate the thoughts and I really do want to be as objective as possible (which is SO hard). I think it's a good idea as well. I will suggest it to him.

[MuddyFootprints]

Even if he doesn't want to do the exercise, you should.

 

My husband doesn't do magic wands, idealistic thinking, or daydreaming.

 

I have a tendency to be drawn into rainbows...and...white couches and clean floors.

 

He's my Kevin O'Leary. Fortunately, we have gotten to a place that he'll come along for the ride, even if it's just to humour me.

 

It makes a difference to me and to our intimacy and connection.

 

I was done and in a comparable state (or worse) than you are as far as repulsion went. (our marriage had become toxic and abusive)

 

We both had to do the work to come back together, and it's not easy. It is worth it to us, though.

 

If you still have any hope at all, stick to it.

 

Work through your resentments together.

 

If you have no hope, consult a lawyer and start the process.

[beatcuff]

OP, do you hear that --- its the sound of a toilet flushing, that is the path you are choosing thanks to the responds. but you had a better one: a honest discussion of your relationship. you should continue these talks. they will be enlightening and will either save this M or help BOTH of you in the next one. win-win.

 

it is obvious too many on this site race to one extreme or the other without doing a proper debrief. its only then the actual 'why' can be determined then a solution (which may still be D) can be chosen.

 

its already happening: the title of this thread v your latest posts: this is evolving.

Edited December 7, 2015 by beatcuff
added last line.

[Southern Sun]

Well...H and I had a nice talk last night and decided to contact a couples/sex therapist and see where that evolves. I think we have deeper issues than we both realize. We've both decided we have too much to lose to not really give this a good try.

[Rainbowlove]

I guess what happened is, I've been with him and only him for 20 years. And then I had this affair and while yes, it was passionate, like affairs are, I did have emotionally-connected sex. He paid attention to me, we communicated, it was just different.

 

It was different. Is different necessarily better? I don't think it's fair to compare the two relationships.

 

I'm glad you are willing to get a sex therapist to help work this out. As you know sex is not your only problem. Building and maintaining the connection takes work before and after affairs.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if you just had passion for each other after 20 years of raising kids, paying bills, building careers, facing illnesses and deaths....and didn't have to do a thing to keep passion alive.

 

IT TAKES WORK - CONSTANT WORK

 

I don't think you're being selfish. I think you are still comparing your affair partner/experience to your 20 year marriage.

 

List the good things about your husband, marriage and life together.

 

I think if you looked from your husband's perspective...you've been less than perfect.

 

This is how I now look at things when I have a complaint about my wife...who am I to judge her at all??

 

You get what you give.

[Southern Sun]

It was different. Is different necessarily better? I don't think it's fair to compare the two relationships.

 

I'm glad you are willing to get a sex therapist to help work this out. As you know sex is not your only problem. Building and maintaining the connection takes work before and after affairs.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if you just had passion for each other after 20 years of raising kids, paying bills, building careers, facing illnesses and deaths....and didn't have to do a thing to keep passion alive.

 

IT TAKES WORK - CONSTANT WORK

 

I don't think you're being selfish. I think you are still comparing your affair partner/experience to your 20 year marriage.

 

List the good things about your husband, marriage and life together.

 

I think if you looked from your husband's perspective...you've been less than perfect.

 

This is how I now look at things when I have a complaint about my wife...who am I to judge her at all??

 

You get what you give.

 

The therapist combines traditional MC with sex therapy. I think we need both. We've been to one MC and he was okay. We are going to try this one and see if it seems like this approach will help us better. A LOT of our problems are in the bedroom and regarding general physical affection and intimacy, but I think they are very impacted by our emotional issues. And then some of them are just plain mechanical.

 

I'm sure there are some comparisons with AP. I don't know if that can be entirely prevented. But I am trying to be objective about that. I know that sex with all the newness and "passion" and all that crap shouldn't be compared to sex with someone you've been with for 20 years. So I am genuinely trying not to do that. BUT it is a fact that it has simply opened my eyes to how very NOT connected we were. There was a medical reason for this on my H's side for years, and then anxiety exacerbated it over time. Regardless of the reason, it happened and still caused me to experience it as him distancing himself from me. Then there probably WAS emotional distancing, on both of our parts.

 

As far as me not being perfect, I am under no illusions. I have no doubt I have been tough to live with at times...lots of times.