Gold Pile Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I love cats & dogs. I have nothing against other critters as well. I recognize the need for population management and accept that hunters are part of this. Better that 12 are shot than have the heard starve to death. But I'm not a hunter and never will be. I recently stumbled blindly into a particularly brutal and bloodily successful hunting scene. It wasn't sport hunting, it was for them to make money so they could feed their families. With a middleman it was still the basic kill to survive for them. I was traumatized by what I saw, sickened by being forced to personally end the suffering of one animal. I'll never forget it and wish I could. Looking for support, I posted about it. I understand the hatred at the hunters who do the awful work that most of us couldn't stomach. Militant sympathy for the animals but not word of compassion for the innocent human victim (Me). I ask you this: if a person is walking their dog, and they get killed by a dunk driver, why is the driver vilified by a mob expressing outrage that a dog was killed....but not a word of sorrow for the deceased pet owner? Why do people opposed to capital punishment of a man who shoots a store clerk, suddenly scream for the violent death of a Dentist/hunter. Where is the outrage for the dead store clerk? By all means we should care for animal victims, but why do so many walk past a shoeless homeless man and proceed to donate to an animal shelter? Compassion shouldn't exclude human victims.
frogs88 Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 It's probably because they didn't club and skin you (right?) - seems kind of dramatic to compare their fate to just witnessing it.
PegNosePete Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I've witnessed this myself too. At the movies a couple of years back, there was a trailer for a terrible sci-fi movie set in Moscow that had alien lightning creatures going around attacking people or something. People getting zapped and electrocuted in all kinds of ways and the audience carry on munching popcorn. But when a dog gets exploded by the alien lightning, the whole cinema goes "aaaaaahhhhh" and is all shocked. Admittedly the human acting was terrible and their characters were mind-numbingly annoying, but still, I was surprised to see all the compassion for the dog but none for the humans. 1
Els Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) I really don't think you were truly a 'victim' in that case. That's like saying that the people who came across a fatal car accident were 'victims' on an equal level as the people in the car who died. That being said, re: the actual title of the thread, it does sort of bug me. Children in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East starve to death while people are bickering about whether they should put their dog/cat on a vegan diet (the answer is no, of course) and howling 'animal abuse!' at videos of a cat being teased by a laser pointer. Most domesticated animals in the developed world live far, far better lives than the average human in poorer countries. But what can you do? People have the right to choose who/what they do and don't want to care about. Such is life. You can't really tell someone that they should take all the compassion they have towards animals and put it towards humans, because it doesn't work that way. Edited December 2, 2015 by Elswyth 1
Author Gold Pile Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 It's probably because they didn't club and skin you (right?) - seems kind of dramatic to compare their fate to just witnessing it. Huh? .....
Author Gold Pile Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 I've witnessed this myself too. At the movies a couple of years back, there was a trailer for a terrible sci-fi movie set in Moscow that had alien lightning creatures going around attacking people or something. People getting zapped and electrocuted in all kinds of ways and the audience carry on munching popcorn. But when a dog gets exploded by the alien lightning, the whole cinema goes "aaaaaahhhhh" and is all shocked. Admittedly the human acting was terrible and their characters were mind-numbingly annoying, but still, I was surprised to see all the compassion for the dog but none for the humans. you articulated it better than I did. Thank you PeeNosePete
Author Gold Pile Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 I really don't think you were truly a 'victim' in that case. That's like saying that the people who came across a fatal car accident were 'victims' on an equal level as the people in the car who died. That being said, re: the actual title of the thread, it does sort of bug me. Children in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East starve to death while people are bickering about whether they should put their dog/cat on a vegan diet (the answer is no, of course) and howling 'animal abuse!' at videos of a cat being teased by a laser pointer. Most domesticated animals in the developed world live far, far better lives than the average human in poorer countries. But what can you do? People have the right to choose who/what they do and don't want to care about. Such is life. You can't really tell someone that they should take all the compassion they have towards animals and put it towards humans, because it doesn't work that way. I can't argue with your logic, you are correct I was less a victim than an unfortunate witness. I have to go out on a limb here and ask about starving children in the Middle East, what country(s)?. Setting aside that the Middle East is technically in Asia, how much starvation is there in Asia now that the Indian government has money? North Korea perhaps. Not saying life is easy in many Asian countries but how much actual starvation is going on.
loveflower Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I can't argue with your logic, you are correct I was less a victim than an unfortunate witness.. and participant...after all you did club the seal, right?
Author Gold Pile Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 and participant...after all you did club the seal, right? That was the most noble and most difficult thing I've done in a looong time. The mortally wounded creature was about to be skinned alive. I chose to be traumatized on a whole new level to end his suffering. In a way I was the only hero there. But I don't want adoration, I want sympathy and empathy for what I endured. It still haunts my dreams as well as many waking moments of my day.
road Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I love cats & dogs. I have nothing against other critters as well. I recognize the need for population management and accept that hunters are part of this. Better that 12 are shot than have the heard starve to death. But I'm not a hunter and never will be. I recently stumbled blindly into a particularly brutal and bloodily successful hunting scene. It wasn't sport hunting, it was for them to make money so they could feed their families. With a middleman it was still the basic kill to survive for them. I was traumatized by what I saw, sickened by being forced to personally end the suffering of one animal. I'll never forget it and wish I could. Looking for support, I posted about it. I understand the hatred at the hunters who do the awful work that most of us couldn't stomach. Militant sympathy for the animals but not word of compassion for the innocent human victim (Me). I ask you this: if a person is walking their dog, and they get killed by a dunk driver, why is the driver vilified by a mob expressing outrage that a dog was killed....but not a word of sorrow for the deceased pet owner? Why do people opposed to capital punishment of a man who shoots a store clerk, suddenly scream for the violent death of a Dentist/hunter. Where is the outrage for the dead store clerk? By all means we should care for animal victims, but why do so many walk past a shoeless homeless man and proceed to donate to an animal shelter? Compassion shouldn't exclude human victims. Because the legal system will convict and punish the criminal. The legal system will not mourn the dog. That dentist was not a hunter. He was a poacher. A domestic dog did not ask to get born and being domestic can not take care of himself. The shoeless homeless bum can take care of himself, he choses to not. To kill an animal for food is part of life. People forget that need to kill because they get their meat butchered and wrapped ready to cook. However there is no need be brutal when killing for food. No need to club defenseless seal pups. No need to kill for furs for we do not need furs to survive the cold any more. 2
Author Gold Pile Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 However there is no need be brutal when killing for food. No need to club defenseless seal pups. No need to kill for furs for we do not need furs to survive the cold any more. While the hunters don't need to wear the furs, (truly they don't seem a fashionable bunch either) they do need the pelt money to buy food. I understand the method of killing was developed so as not to ruin (and make valueless ) the fur. Surely I'd like to see a better method so no animal suffers.
loveflower Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 That was the most noble and most difficult thing I've done in a looong time. The mortally wounded creature was about to be skinned alive. I chose to be traumatized on a whole new level to end his suffering. In a way I was the only hero there. But I don't want adoration, I want sympathy and empathy for what I endured. It still haunts my dreams as well as many waking moments of my day. It was kind of joking...it was very kind of you...you are a good person otherwise you won't be traumatized and come here to look for sympathy. What is done is done. actually there are much worse suffering in this world...you know... Peace.
Author Gold Pile Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 It was kind of joking...it was very kind of you...you are a good person otherwise you won't be traumatized and come here to look for sympathy. What is done is done. actually there are much worse suffering in this world...you know... Peace. I feel closure now. Thanks Pilgrim 1
preraph Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 Because animals are innocent and don't have control over their lives. 2
Krashi Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 I disagree that cruelty to animals or animal suffering produces greater sympathy or outrage. I think it is about equal to that evoked by cruelty to humans.
RedRobin Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) That was the most noble and most difficult thing I've done in a looong time. The mortally wounded creature was about to be skinned alive. I chose to be traumatized on a whole new level to end his suffering. In a way I was the only hero there. But I don't want adoration, I want sympathy and empathy for what I endured. It still haunts my dreams as well as many waking moments of my day. First step is to stop finding ways to justify it and end your relationship with people who would skin something alive or stand by while others do it. Simple. What they did was illegal and they knew it. Report them. Edited December 3, 2015 by RedRobin 3
Author Gold Pile Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 I disagree that cruelty to animals or animal suffering produces greater sympathy or outrage. I think it is about equal to that evoked by cruelty to humans. I sincerely hope you're right. This topic has run it's course, I'm closing this thread.
MidwestUSA Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 I sincerely hope you're right. This topic has run it's course, I'm closing this thread. No, wait, I'm here! You need some likes? 2
candie13 Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 my key point is the following: humans can defend and fend for themselves, not animals. Yes, humans need compassion as well as love and forgiveness but most of the times, humans are capable of fulfilling their own needs of love and affection through their own social network or if they don't have one, by volunteering and feeling that they are giving something back to the society. The issue with pets is that they are defenseless and cannot choose or fend for themselves. They need their master to do that. This primal human need to protect defenseless lives (human or animal) is at the core of your observations. There is enough love for both humans and pets. There's no such thing as a limited amount of love and compassion. I do believe there are human victims, too - if that shoeless man you've mentioned is mentally ill and has no one to take care of him, his fate is identical to that of a stray dog, if not worse, because other humans will abuse and take advantage of him. I think the difference in attitude between humans towards other humans - in pain or in need - or humans towards animals is that generally speaking, humans can take it and can deal with it. They can and should take steps to feel better and solve whatever catastrophe crosses their life. They can connect with other people and find ways to sooth their pain. Animals are defenseless.
Got it Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 Why do people feel there needs to be an "either or" scenario with things? I see this on social media right now with the focus on not supporting refugees if we haven't taken care of all the veteran issues. Why can't there be a focus on both? In regards to animal rights, I am a big supporter and do not eat, buy products tested on animals, etc. because of it. Animals have far less say about their situations and the fate than humans do. But that doesn't mean I do not support human concerns. But that doesn't mean all human concerns need to be resolved before we can focus on animals; that isn't logical. I think we need to focus on animals for the sake of the planet. The new documentary "Race to Extinction" is going over the biggest impact this planet has seen since the extinction of the dinosaurs and it is at the hands of the human race. 3
Author Gold Pile Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 No, wait, I'm here! You need some likes? I can always use some likes, for such a nice guy I get very few likes 5
GemmaUK Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 I respect what you did. I would have had to have done the same though I would hope never ever to be in a situation where I was a witness. I certainly would not choose to be. Humans know what humans are capable of. Animals don't have that knowledge and that is the reason I hurt more to hear of the suffering of an animal. If I were to die, right now at the hands of a human please do one of the following: shoot me between the eyes, shoot me in the heart, break my neck and mean it, behead me or inject me with or make me drink fast acting poison please. Please don't skin me alive. There was a little puppy in the news this week. Chunky, a Chihuahua crossed with a Yorkshire Terrier. Some teens broke into his home, stole him, fed him drugs, beat him, broke his leg, wrang his neck and broke it, sprayed aerosol into his eyes and set him on fire and dumped him on a rubbish tip. He was discovered a few days later by someone. He amazingly survived this ordeal. His attackers got various fines and have been banned from keeping pets for 5 years. Just five years. I was going to post a link but the pic is upsetting.
DrReplyInRhymes Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 Growing up in a family where hunting is commonplace, and sometimes is a need, There's certainly a disparity between killing for sport and killing to feed. You bring up a good point, I think that context may be the key, For 'hunting' isn't tragic, but needlessly killing certainly can be.
RedRobin Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 I can always use some likes, for such a nice guy I get very few likes Thanks very much for sharing you trauma so the rest of us can experience it second hand. Then to do nothing about it after the fact. I do give you credit for putting it out of its misery... Still, a nicer person probably would do more than come here and talk about it. But since you can't do that, not sure what else to tell you. Don't bring children and small animals around your GF? Don't keep blunt objects lying around in case she gets pissed at you? There are lots of studies that show that people who are cruel to animals often escalate to abuse of humans. Goes hand in hand. 3
Els Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 I can't argue with your logic, you are correct I was less a victim than an unfortunate witness. I have to go out on a limb here and ask about starving children in the Middle East, what country(s)?. Setting aside that the Middle East is technically in Asia, how much starvation is there in Asia now that the Indian government has money? North Korea perhaps. Not saying life is easy in many Asian countries but how much actual starvation is going on. World Child Hunger Facts 2015 https://www.wfp.org/hunger/stats
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