crazy_grl Posted May 26, 2005 Posted May 26, 2005 Within my first few posts on this board, I was labeled as having a 'totally female' view. I found this amusing because no one has ever labeled me as being female in my views. In fact, my friends in college used to consider me one of the guys. In just happened that the most recent posts were from women who had been disrespected by men. I think women and men should be held to the same standards of behavior. If the complaints had been against women with the same sort of behavior, I would have said the same thing about them. I don't think people should be allowed to get away with poor behavior using the excuse, "that's what when do" or "that's what men do". Do you agree or disagree? In your opinion, is there a different standard of dating behavior for women than men?
tanbark813 Posted May 26, 2005 Posted May 26, 2005 I don't know if there's necessarily a different standard for behavior, but I do think men are held more accountable. Women seem to be able to justify pretty much anything due to their needs being neglected.
Marshbear Posted May 26, 2005 Posted May 26, 2005 I think that both sexes should respect each other and not use a blanket statement like " boys will be boys" or "girls will be girls". People are different and each situation is different and should be handled accordingly. Behavior is a learned experience and can be changed. We should behave in a manner that is respectful to all. The old cliche' "treat other like you wish to be treated" still applies. There is also the thing that you can take things to far and sometimes you need to just let it go and chill. If you try to be a crusader for every problem that comes your way you will be a busy warrior. You need to pick your battles and take a stand when you feel strongly about a certain thing. I do think men are held to a higher standard than women. Just my opinion. Don't get mad. Peace...
Author crazy_grl Posted May 26, 2005 Author Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 I don't know if there's necessarily a different standard for behavior, but I do think men are held more accountable. Women seem to be able to justify pretty much anything due to their needs being neglected. You're right. Women are allowed more room in society to over-exaggerate their pain and their needs. They can act the wounded victim while a man who is hurt is generalized as a wimp. I think that's completely unfair, and women should not play games like that. Women should not be able to use their needs as excuses for behaving however they want. A woman should have her needs met, but not at the expense of the man's. And I think that those needs are often the same even if one or both won't admit it. It seems to me that the reason men are held more accountable is that they often present a tough exterior and are afraid to admit when they're hurt or their needs aren't met. It leaves them open for getting the blame because "they don't care."
Author crazy_grl Posted May 26, 2005 Author Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by crazy_grl I don't think people should be allowed to get away with poor behavior using the excuse, "that's what when do" or "that's what men do". Just realized that I accidently typed 'when' instead of 'women' and it won't let me edit anymore. Oops. Hopefully you all got the idea.
tanbark813 Posted May 26, 2005 Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by crazy_grl You're right. Women are allowed more room in society to over-exaggerate their pain and their needs. They can act the wounded victim while a man who is hurt is generalized as a wimp. I think that's completely unfair, and women should not play games like that. Women should not be able to use their needs as excuses for behaving however they want. A woman should have her needs met, but not at the expense of the man's. And I think that those needs are often the same even if one or both won't admit it. It seems to me that the reason men are held more accountable is that they often present a tough exterior and are afraid to admit when they're hurt or their needs aren't met. It leaves them open for getting the blame because "they don't care." Yep, I totally agree.
alphamale Posted May 26, 2005 Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by crazy_grl Do you agree or disagree? In your opinion, is there a different standard of dating behavior for women than men? I believe there should be diff stds for men and women cause we are inherently different due to many factors (mentally, emotionally, physically). And biology also comes into play as does evolution and behaviour of each sex. Women are apples and men are oranges and u really cannot compare the two. Neither is better than the other, just different.
Author crazy_grl Posted May 26, 2005 Author Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by Marshbear We should behave in a manner that is respectful to all. The old cliche' "treat other like you wish to be treated" still applies. And I think people often forget that when they're dealing with the opposite sex. They think about how they should handle a situation with a woman or a man instead of how a person should be treated. I do think men are held to a higher standard than women. Just my opinion. Don't get mad. Why would I get mad at you just for stating your opinion?
Author crazy_grl Posted May 26, 2005 Author Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale I believe there should be diff stds for men and women cause we are inherently different due to many factors (mentally, emotionally, physically). And biology also comes into play as does evolution and behaviour of each sex. Women are apples and men are oranges and u really cannot compare the two. Neither is better than the other, just different. I disagree that women and men are different mentally and emotionally because of biology. I think it's simply a product of social constructs and expectations that make the difference. If both were expected to live up to the same standards, the differences wouldn't be as vast. There are men who have more 'female' personality traits than many women and women who have more 'male' traits than many men. If the difference was purely biological, there would be no overlap of the behavior. And I'm not talking about only homosexual people either if anyone was thinking that.
noname Posted May 26, 2005 Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by crazy_grl You're right. Women are allowed more room in society to over-exaggerate their pain and their needs. They can act the wounded victim while a man who is hurt is generalized as a wimp. I think that's completely unfair, and women should not play games like that. Women should not be able to use their needs as excuses for behaving however they want. A woman should have her needs met, but not at the expense of the man's. And I think that those needs are often the same even if one or both won't admit it. It seems to me that the reason men are held more accountable is that they often present a tough exterior and are afraid to admit when they're hurt or their needs aren't met. It leaves them open for getting the blame because "they don't care." i would agree. social stigma has taught men to be tough even when they shouldn't, but i would add that it has made it so that women enjoy the freedom to express themselves more freely and at times more recklessly. not that women are worse than men. i just think that it is more easily explained when a woman does something that both sexes may be capable of because of that emotional freedom. that doesn't sound right... before i get attacked, i mean it is more acceptable for things like mood swings; or having a bad day; or just not wanting to be bothered that can may alter a woman's actions or words at a given time. those same factors may make a man do the same thing, but most often it is just attributed to him being an a**hole. i honestly think it is not as easily accepted or understood (by either sex) when a man displays this kind of behavior . follow me? and as men we are conditioned to accept that and that may harden them even worse.
alphamale Posted May 26, 2005 Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by crazy_grl I disagree that women and men are different mentally and emotionally because of biology. ....so then CRAZY_GURL you don't think that women are generally better at relationships and dealing with people becasue they have to carry a baby for 9 months, give birth to it, and then raise and nurture it for decades? I think you are totally off base here. Many of our behavioural differences lie in our differening biology.
Author crazy_grl Posted May 27, 2005 Author Posted May 27, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale ....so then CRAZY_GURL you don't think that women are generally better at relationships and dealing with people becasue they have to carry a baby for 9 months, give birth to it, and then raise and nurture it for decades? No, I don't. I'm s***ty at relationships. I've learned a lot about relationships from my exes. I would be so completely lost and f*cked if not for them. And women don't *have* to carry a baby for 9 months, give birth to it, or any of that. Lord knows I don't plan to. I can't claim to speak for what a man or woman goes through when having a child, but it doesn't seem to me that a woman really changes her behavior toward everyone else any more than a man does after his baby is born. The woman may form a special bond because the baby has grown inside her, but that doesn't change her essential personality. In any case, having a baby is an event that occurs much later in life after an individual's behaviors and personality have already been affected by social gender biases that begin when they're an infant. I think you are totally off base here. Many of our behavioural differences lie in our differening biology. Still disagree. I do so politely, but I do disagree. There have been studies to prove your point and mine as well.
Author crazy_grl Posted May 27, 2005 Author Posted May 27, 2005 Originally posted by noname i would agree. social stigma has taught men to be tough even when they shouldn't, but i would add that it has made it so that women enjoy the freedom to express themselves more freely and at times more recklessly. I agree. My comments about women being able to over-exaggerate emotional issues was supposed to convey that sentiment. Guess I didn't do it so well. Communication was never my strong suit. not that women are worse than men. i just think that it is more easily explained when a woman does something that both sexes may be capable of because of that emotional freedom. that doesn't sound right... before i get attacked, i mean it is more acceptable for things like mood swings; or having a bad day; or just not wanting to be bothered that can may alter a woman's actions or words at a given time. those same factors may make a man do the same thing, but most often it is just attributed to him being an a**hole. i honestly think it is not as easily accepted or understood (by either sex) when a man displays this kind of behavior . follow me? and as men we are conditioned to accept that and that may harden them even worse. I am *so* going to attack you. j/k The first sentence made sense to me. You have a good point. I'm sure I've been guilty of it at some point. I know how bad it is to feel like you can't express your emotions and concerns, so I feel for you guys. But I think it also takes a lot of will power and strength for a woman to overcome the ability she has to use her emotions like that. It takes a strong woman to give up that kind of power just like it takes a strong man to get past social barriers and admit his feelings... If that makes sense. Where's all the women to discuss this? We're getting only guy feedback here, and I'm starting to feel bad for all these poor guys for having to put up with us women folk. Where's my girls to convince me otherwise.
noname Posted May 27, 2005 Posted May 27, 2005 Originally posted by crazy_grl I agree. My comments about women being able to over-exaggerate emotional issues was supposed to convey that sentiment. Guess I didn't do it so well. Communication was never my strong suit. no. you did fine. i think i got where you were going. i was piggybacking and adding about how it is more accepted on a social level rather than just individually... I am *so* going to attack you. j/k The first sentence made sense to me. thanks for actually reading and trying to understand before you gave me the business:) You have a good point. I'm sure I've been guilty of it at some point. I know how bad it is to feel like you can't express your emotions and concerns, so I feel for you guys. But I think it also takes a lot of will power and strength for a woman to overcome the ability she has to use her emotions like that. It takes a strong woman to give up that kind of power just like it takes a strong man to get past social barriers and admit his feelings... If that makes sense. ya damn skippy... exactly...will power, strength, and the ability to realize what you are doing in the first place... Alphamale is right about biological differences having an impact on the way we deal with relationships. although i may not agree with his analogy (i don't believe women are better at relationships, and certainly not because of childbirth), but simple chemical differences certainly effect the way we approach the opposite sex, deal with each other, solve problems, etc. hormonal differences, testosterone levels, monthly biologically changes... those things alone have an impact on how we engage each other. they even have an impact on how we interact within our own sex. in his defense, i do see where he is coming from. a lot of women do believe exactly that, and a lot of men probably do too. in fact, that may be exactly the point he was trying to make and we are just not interpreting it correctly. i DO agree with you total crazy_grl in this regard... I think it's simply a product of social constructs and expectations that make the difference. If both were expected to live up to the same standards, the differences wouldn't be as vast. There are men who have more 'female' personality traits than many women and women who have more 'male' traits than many men. If the difference was purely biological, there would be no overlap of the behavior. i just don't believe it is that simple. it is not "purely" biological. i also believe that it is not "purely" social. it is far too easy and scapegoat-ish (and human) to blame it on one thing when it is not as "black and white" as we would want it to be. we try to isolate the core of every problem, and ofeten times we leave a lot of variables out of the equation. the trick is trying to have a balanced view of biology and social stimuli and how they effect one another... they don't exactly act independantly. the problem is that most of the hardcore attempts at understanding both have pretty much been in the twentieth century so our understanding is fairly young. with that many centuries to understand we have our work cut out for us. all things considered, i think that we are making some progress...
alphamale Posted May 27, 2005 Posted May 27, 2005 Originally posted by noname Alphamale is right about biological differences having an impact on the way we deal with relationships. although i may not agree with his analogy (i don't believe women are better at relationships, and certainly not because of childbirth), what I meant NONAME was that women have to raise kids and keep a family together and that is why evolutionaly they have better relationnship skills and also why their brains are wired differently than men's.
noname Posted May 27, 2005 Posted May 27, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale what I meant NONAME was that women have to raise kids and keep a family together and that is why evolutionaly they have better relationnship skills and also why their brains are wired differently than men's. understood. i was trying my best not to assume what it is you meant while agreeing with your point on a basic plane. i'm right with you that we are wired differently and that has a big effect on how we approach relationships. nuturing families is does not come as easily to men as to women. i just don't think that they are any better at male/ female relationships than we are... just my opinion btw, so i meant no disrespect if that is what you got from what i said. i was actually on your side with that point because i didn't want her to dismiss what you wrote because you were right about us having biological differences...
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