She didn't offer to split the bill. Should i disregard her?

[introverted1]

Woman type 3: Insists on splitting the bill if she has no intention of seeing you again. Offers to split the bill if she does intend to see you again and then says the next one is on her when you decline.

 

This type is my personal favorite and there is no ambiguity.

 

This is what almost happens on my dates. Not only is it the right thing to do, imo, but it tells the guy I am interested in a "next time."

 

Win win!

[insert_name]

I dated a girl a while back, a cute redhead I med online.

 

We went out a half dozen times over a few week period and things were going well except I was paying for the dinners, and I don't mind.. to a point. I expect her to ultimatly turn around and whip out her purse, even if it's not a 50/50 thing, at least often enough that I don't feel used.

 

I'm an upfront sort of guy, if it's on my mind its out of my mouth.

 

So I said to her, "when are you going to get the tab"? She replied "I expect the guy to pay, I'm an old-fashioned gal".

 

I knew then it would be our last date.

 

If she is old fashioned then you should have asked whether she fancied washing your underwear and making the tea seeing as she likes traditional gender roles so much.

 

You would probably have been called a sexist pig with not even a hint of irony

[RedRobin]

I just got caught up on the thread, and it looks like the OP has his question answered...

 

 

Just on the philosophical point though, I think she's a turd for upping the date terms, then not offering to split. That just strikes me as a sh*tty thing to do. The equivalent for a guy might be... He claims he's looking for a relationship on his profile, then instead of a date, he suggests coming back to his place instead when I agree to meet him. Jerk move.

 

 

Feels like a bait and switch.

 

 

I agree with the others that he could have communicated, but at this stage, it just feels retarded to need to communicate anything. Save that for the tougher stuff. At this stage, it should be more effortless... so I say, pass.

 

 

I am not in favor of the previous suggestion to then try to make her an eff-buddy or a ONS because she did something you didn't like. We could all do with less vindictive, confusing junk like that. Sounds like a sure-fire way to invite some drama into one's life on top of that. Not cool.

 

 

OTOH, there is a vindictive side of ME that thinks this 'princess' behavior from women needs to stop... and if more men kicked these entitled "gotta pay for me" chicks to the curb or treated them with the same degree of entitlement she's treating him (ie, guy expects sex in return for $$)... then it would turn around real quick...

 

 

Anyway... all that considered, I'm glad that people with different dating styles are obliged more and more to identify what it is and communicate that upfront. Sounds like everyone who is dating in good faith benefits from that.

[SwordofFlame]

Not sure if this has been answered, but did she also pick the restaurant or did the OP pick? If she picked, absolutely she should have offered to pay for the whole dinner or at the very least split the check.

[lookin ahead]

I'm probably going to get hate on this but I honestly do not see what is so wrong with paying for the first date sounds cheap to me. This automatically doesn't title someone as "princess". I've always offered to pay and I was always denied to do so its just a gentlemen kind of thing. I have a friend who always pays for us no matter how much we insist dinner or not. I agree with the others who said if your interested I don't see the big deal of paying for dinner. If you don't like this then just be honest with her and tell her your thoughts that your different and you expect split bills it's not that hard or else you'll already pass judgement on her that she's selfish, princess or what not. Just be honest with her if she doesn't like it move on I guess it's really your decision to hang out or go on dates with someone you don't seem to really ok with having you pay.

[Redhead14]

I invited a girl from POF to go out for a drink. The night before the date she said that we should get dinner instead and i agreed. She didn't offer to split the bill at the end even though it was her idea to go out for a meal and we played a couple of games of air hockey afterwards and i even ended up paying for that as well.

 

 

Now she wants us to play badminton (she probably expects me to pay for that too lol) but now i'm unsure if I should bother so i'm thinking of just inviting her to my place "to watch a movie" and if she doesn't go then just disregarding her. It's unlikely that she would go because she seems quite conservative. If it wasn't for her acting like a princess then i would really want to see her again. I'm usually a bit shy when i first meet someone but with her i felt no awkwardness at all and we got on really well and had a laugh so i don't know if i'm overreacting?

 

The invite for a drink was the first in person meeting? Generally, it's a good idea to keep the first meet up short and sweet. You don't spend a lot of money on that first meeting. The purpose that meeting is simply to make sure they are who they say they are, look like their picture and to see if there is enough to go on a real date.

 

You should have declined dinner but since she suggested dinner, she should have paid.

 

And, don't invite her to your place now. A) you kinda are turned off because she's princess and B) it's just too soon for that even if you like her enough. Spend some time out in public with her and get to know her a little better.

[Rydo]

I'm probably going to get hate on this but I honestly do not see what is so wrong with paying for the first date sounds cheap to me. This automatically doesn't title someone as "princess". I've always offered to pay and I was always denied to do so its just a gentlemen kind of thing. I have a friend who always pays for us no matter how much we insist dinner or not. I agree with the others who said if your interested I don't see the big deal of paying for dinner. If you don't like this then just be honest with her and tell her your thoughts that your different and you expect split bills it's not that hard or else you'll already pass judgement on her that she's selfish, princess or what not. Just be honest with her if she doesn't like it move on I guess it's really your decision to hang out or go on dates with someone you don't seem to really ok with having you pay.

 

It's more the expectation. I generally pay more on nights out with friends because I make more money and come from a fairly comfortable background. I do this because I choose to. If it ever became expected of me I would stop.

[Wewon]

I'm probably going to get hate on this but I honestly do not see what is so wrong with paying for the first date sounds cheap to me. This automatically doesn't title someone as "princess". I've always offered to pay and I was always denied to do so its just a gentlemen kind of thing. I have a friend who always pays for us no matter how much we insist dinner or not. I agree with the others who said if your interested I don't see the big deal of paying for dinner. If you don't like this then just be honest with her and tell her your thoughts that your different and you expect split bills it's not that hard or else you'll already pass judgement on her that she's selfish, princess or what not. Just be honest with her if she doesn't like it move on I guess it's really your decision to hang out or go on dates with someone you don't seem to really ok with having you pay.

 

I think that most of the issue with poster and the op was attitude and not actually paying.

 

I know, making it about paying makes the whole thing a slam dunk, these guys are jerks, end of story. But are we being honest when we pretend that how the person treats us, addresses us or otherwise acts doesn't play a part in this?

 

Look at it this way:

 

You do a favor for your boyfriend and his response is, "You're awesome! Thanks, that really helped me out!"

 

You do the same favor and his response is, "Hmmm, you know if you had done X,Y and Z it would have been better, but oh well, thanks anyway."

 

You're no more out in either scenario, but can you honestly say that you would walk away feeling the same way in both?

[lookin ahead]

Then why not express your expectations ahead of time so the other person on the date is aware. Like i said if your honest about your intentions and what you expect from them isn't it better than just expecting they should know what you want, some people are a bit oblivious to things. Sometimes we misunderstand this by them been "rude" but maybe they really don't know and should be reminded once in a while?

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I have no problem paying for dates, I'm a guy, it's been ingrained,

However, I have NO problem NOT paying should the date become lame,

For instance, she invites the guy she's really into, saying he's just a friend,

Or she invites her sister, who with her snotty attitude, ruined it at the end.

 

Changing a date from something cheap to something expensive,

And still expecting it to be paid, to me, is quite offensive.

Lots of guys get used to get free dinners and free dates,

then get left behind when later that night, she hangs with the guy who told her to wait.

[Wewon]

Then why not express your expectations ahead of time so the other person on the date is aware. Like i said if your honest about your intentions and what you expect from them isn't it better than just expecting they should know what you want, some people are a bit oblivious to things. Sometimes we misunderstand this by them been "rude" but maybe they really don't know and should be reminded once in a while?

 

I suppose you're right, you could state this expectation ahead of time.

 

But isn't this expectation simply to demonstrate good manners? Again, its not about the money its social graces, and the most basic social graces at that.

[Buddhist]

I was happy to pay for the first date with this girl, it's just the fact that she never offered to split it when she was the one who asked me to go for a meal. Regarding your question, why would a guy settle for a girl who puts herself on a pedestal and expects the guy to buy her affection when he could meet a down to earth girl who is happy to split?

 

Then I think you have your answer. Finding a girl who at least offers is a must have for you. Maybe go on one more low budget date with her. I agree a movie at your place is not a good suggestion but maybe some time doing something free like enjoying the botanic gardens would be. See what her real attitude is and if you think she's just after a meal ticket then nix her.

[RedRobin]

I'm probably going to get hate on this but I honestly do not see what is so wrong with paying for the first date sounds cheap to me. This automatically doesn't title someone as "princess". I've always offered to pay and I was always denied to do so its just a gentlemen kind of thing. I have a friend who always pays for us no matter how much we insist dinner or not. I agree with the others who said if your interested I don't see the big deal of paying for dinner. If you don't like this then just be honest with her and tell her your thoughts that your different and you expect split bills it's not that hard or else you'll already pass judgement on her that she's selfish, princess or what not. Just be honest with her if she doesn't like it move on I guess it's really your decision to hang out or go on dates with someone you don't seem to really ok with having you pay.

 

 

I'm a woman, and I would argue it is cheap of the woman to not offer to pay... It is cheap and entitled for her to expect he reject her offer to pay...

It is cheap and entitled for her to call it a 'gentleman' thing to reject her bogus offer to pay as some kind of test. You don't get bonus points for offering to pay, while crossing your fingers he won't take you up on it. That's just deceptive.

 

 

Unless you, as a woman, are broke, don't have a job, or the guy is asking you to some place that is far out of your means... then it's your job as a woman in the 21st century to offer and follow through.

 

 

It's not a man's 'job' to pay for dates while the 'princess' gets treated to good times on his dime... especially from a guy you just met.

 

 

Anyway, this topic has been covered adnauseum in other threads. Going forward, I'd hope the OP not succumb to suggestions by women wanting to up the ante to a more expensive date unless they are already an established couple, at the very minimum.... and dump any women who automatically assumes she gets a free ride. That's really the only way this kind of thing is going to stop. Women who expect to be treated can be the ones saying so up front and see who bites... not the other way around.

[hotpotato]

Uhhh I'm confused...based on your user name "dads new boyfriend" your a gay male right? So was this a girls night out that you were on? In that case why not come out and ask her is your going dutch on the check?

 

Thanks for asking. I was confused like a mutha!

 

 

Back on topic:

I think first dates should be cheap and lighthearted (and during the daytime).

That being said, i try to avoid inviting or putting out ideas unless i intend to pay. I just took my bf to a haunted house, i paid,as it was my idea. There will be other times that ill be paying simply bc its,my idea. Many of my ideas or free or cheap bc i dont want to pay.

 

How old is girl in question? Maybe she doesnt know any better.

 

Also, the idea that a guy should get sex because he paid for x,y,z is very annoying. This is dating not prostitution. Ive dealt with guys like this. Its very insulting. Not to mention the old netflix and chill trick. I think if a guy wants sex, he should just say so instead of unviting her over. What happens if she doesnt want sex? Ive had guys become irate bc i was at their place for a movie abd a tually wanted to watch the movie. I hope this girl figures out what 'movie' means before she has to deal with some jackass who doesnt want to tane no for an answer.

[dads new boyfriend]

Not sure if this has been answered, but did she also pick the restaurant or did the OP pick?

 

 

She picked.

 

 

How old is girl in question?

 

 

22

[SwordofFlame]

Ok that makes a pretty significant difference. If she picked, the least she could have done was offer to split the bill. I would tread carefully if I were you.

Edited June 17, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Heatherknows]

Thanks for asking. I was confused like a mutha!

 

 

Wait...now I'm massively confused. If the OP is a gay male and is someones boyfriend then I don't understand why he's upset about paying for a "date" with a girl??? OP are you going out with girls as friends? If you're just friends then it isn't a date...right???:confused:

[Timshel]

 

Lol it's just some random name I thought of.

 

Wait...now I'm massively confused. If the OP is a gay male and is someones boyfriend then I don't understand why he's upset about paying for a "date" with a girl??? OP are you going out with girls as friends? If you're just friends then it isn't a date...right???:confused:

 

Apparently, this a guy into chicks. The username is arbitrary.

 

Good luck with that dads new boyfriend.

[MissBee]

For the majority of American women, it is the cultural norm that on a date the man pays. The debate on who should or shouldn't pay aside, this has been the cultural norm. Meaning, it is not a strange, bizarre or unusual thing for a woman dating or on a date with a man to assume he'd pay. Now, if you prefer that a woman always offer to pay, that's totally fine and totally your preference and if that is a huge turn off or dealbreaker, then don't see her anymore and find someone who shares those beliefs. I don't see why you'd need to invite her for a movie though...what does that have to do with anything?:confused:Unless you're implying you paid for dinner now she should come by your place and have sex?

 

I don't think it is as yet the large cultural norm that women everywhere assume they will split the bill on a date, so this might be something you need to gauge or have a conversation about BEFORE the date, as in many scenarios most women will probably be operating under the norm that you're paying unless otherwise discussed.

 

For me, it's largely gone the traditional route, esp for the first date. If I am on a date and I like the guy, my logic is that I'll see him again so will have PLENTY of other opportunities to treat him. But when I go out and realize I'm not feeling it, that's when I pull out my wallet because I know I'm never seeing dude again so I'll pay for my part of the bill and we can go our separate ways. My paying signals that this is not a date or it's not at all romantic and there is no future here. I just did that a month ago. Went to lunch with a guy from OKC, was not feeling it whatsoever, check came and he was ready to pay and I pulled out my card and added it to the check too. Had I liked him though, I would have appreciated his gesture and would have allowed it then offered to pay for next time...since no next time would happen and I knew it, I paid for myself and left with a clear conscience.

Edited November 13, 2015 by MissBee

[salparadise]

I think the dating world would be a better place if both men and women lighten up on the 'who pays' issue on the first few dates.

 

Why isn't there any room for nuance...

 

I agree with this in principle, but... practically speaking, how things are handled when the check comes on the first date is probably the first opportunity for a woman to express which millennium she's operating in. It's not actually about money; it's about attitudes and values. It's about how she thinks of herself, how she believes relationships should be conducted, and assuming she subscribes to the concept of gender equality... whether it's a fair is fair, or only when it benefits her mentality.

 

Basically I am a feminist. My mother was smart, progressive and accomplished. She was the first in her family to attend college. She attained an advanced degree and took leadership roles in her career. She earned more than my father and learned to handle money. She was an advocate for civil rights in the south at a time when few [white] people were. She's been gone for years, but I still have people from her generation come up to me and tell me how much they respected her. Her example was imprinted on me in such a way that I don't think of women as helpless, dependent or entitled by virtue of having two X chromosomes. Yet I grew up in a culture where that was usually the case, and there is still plenty of holdover as we seen threads like this one.

 

It's harder for men to argue against the attitude of entitlement because it can sound self-serving. The women who hold onto it like to use the label "cheap," and of course no man wants to be thought of as cheap, nor do we want to have an awkward interaction by discussing it in a restaurant, so we are always prepared to pay and even tell them to put it away when they do the slow reach.

 

I strongly disagree with those who say we should make our preference or expectation known up front- it's just plain awkward and distasteful to discuss with someone you're presumably interesting in and trying to get to know. So when RedRobin said this...

...and dump any women who automatically assumes she gets a free ride. That's really the only way this kind of thing is going to stop. Women who expect to be treated can be the ones saying so up front and see who bites... not the other way around.

 

I'm thinking, yes, exactly. Except we don't actually need to think of it as dumping her because she didn't offer to pay... just think of it as choosing to be with an enlightened, progressive woman, and not an entitled princess. And make no apologies. How she conducts herself when the check comes tells you which one she is, and if it costs you an extra $25-50 make that determination... it's a small price to pay for such valuable information.

 

And, the ones who really need to be leading the shift away from this last archaic holdover from centuries past are the smart, enlightened, progressive women like RR and several others who share that perspective.

 

Progressive men can just think of it as the sorting hat, like in Harry Potter movies, only less random.

[S_A]

Dads New Boyfriend, in your original post it sounded like you thougt this girl was right for you. If she is right for you, then don't you think she is worth the bill?

 

Sorry guys, but pay the girl's portion of the freakin' bill!

[dads new boyfriend]

Dads New Boyfriend, in your original post it sounded like you thougt this girl was right for you. If she is right for you, then don't you think she is worth the bill?

 

Sorry guys, but pay the girl's portion of the freakin' bill!

 

 

She's a nice girl and we had a fun time but I wouldn't get ahead of myself and say she's right for me yet as I hardly know her and as I met her on POF i'm sure that i'd have a lot of competition for her anyway.

 

 

People just have different values on things and I feel strongly that I shouldn't be expected to pay after she upgraded the date.

[losangelena]

People just have different values on things and I feel strongly that I shouldn't be expected to pay after she upgraded the date.

 

Concentrate on this, then. If you feel so strongly about it, then either A) stop seeing her, B) give her a second chance and see how it goes, C) say something.

 

I agree to some extent that talking about it is awkward; I also agree that you can get a sense of someone's attitude by how they handle the check when it comes. However, all things considered, sometimes people are just unaware that they're making a social faux pas. This woman is 22, she's young, she may have a head full of "traditional" dating advice. That doesn't mean she's necessarily a troglodyte from the previous millennia. It also doesn't immediately make her a princess. Did her attitude about anything else suggest that might be the case? If she simply needs a bit of enlightenment, why not try it.

 

If you have such strong principles on this topic, then stand by them and don't see her. But don't try and finagle her into some casual scenario because she unknowingly put herself into the "sex only" pile.

Edited November 13, 2015 by losangelena

[S_A]

i'm sure that i'd have a lot of competition for her anyway

 

If you have competition, why are you NOT paying? You got in to the dating game to "win". And now you're telling me why try to win? The winners are paying the 20-50 bucks.

[SwordofFlame]

If you have competition, why are you NOT paying? You got in to the dating game to "win". And now you're telling me why try to win? The winners are paying the 20-50 bucks.

If that's the way to win this girl over, I'd just move on and let the other guys spend.