She didn't offer to split the bill. Should i disregard her?

[Heatherknows]

Taking it to the next level, I believe women are equally responsible for life costs of living! I've seen too many women expecting a boyfriend to pay for all rent, utilities, and such even though they make an income as well. Freeloaders.

 

Not that a woman expecting the man to pay the first date will be a freeloader, enough signs of it could end up being a red flag of it!

 

Taking it even one step further: I think men should start getting pregnant.

[Hopeful30]

And in "almost everywhere else", women are also expected to cook, clean, take care of the kids while the men work. Don't compare apples to oranges.

 

Whats wrong with a woman who cooks and cleans? I don't have a pproblem with that, neither do my men who pay for dates. This whole issues is purely a western one, that's all I'm saying...

[Woggle]

I think the issue men have is not paying because I never did but the fact that it seems that some women only want to be traditional when it suits them. It just turns us off when we hear women saying how they don't need men and getting man whenever men want anything to be traditional but then at the drop of a dime turn into 50s housewives when it comes to certain issues. It is hypocrisy and we know it. Despite what some might say men can think with the right head and we know when we are being had.

 

If you really want chivalry inspire a man to want to do these things for you naturally but that would require some concessions on the part of both genders.

[Buddhist]

I think the issue men have is not paying because I never did but the fact that it seems that some women only want to be traditional when it suits them. It just turns us off when we hear women saying how they don't need men and getting man whenever men want anything to be traditional but then at the drop of a dime turn into 50s housewives when it comes to certain issues. It is hypocrisy and we know it. Despite what some might say men can think with the right head and we know when we are being had.

 

If you really want chivalry inspire a man to want to do these things for you naturally but that would require some concessions on the part of both genders.

 

Excellent post. It's about the hyprocrisy. Oh yeah, I'm a free modern equal rights woman when it comes to things that bother me but at the same time I want all the perks of misogyny, just without the misogyny if you don't mind. I still want to be seen as a delicate flower incapable of paying for my own meal because that suits my self image, and personal desires right now. It's called having your cake and eating it too. And something many women get irate about when men attempt it.

[RedRobin]

Depending on where you live, three or four dates is anywhere between $50 and $100 per person, and that's for relatively inexpensive dates...

 

It's one thing if you know the person already and have some sense of their values and interests. I still offer, but I can see where that might not be so bad. Entirely another when the person is a virtual stranger.

 

Let's see... Multi dating, plus maybe taking a few months to find someone you want a relationship with... I can see how some women can very easily get $500 to $1000 in free entertainment a year just casually dating. When I am single, it's not unheard of for me to go on three or four dates with a different guy every few months... And I don't even multidate. Another poster mentioned $5000 in a year. That's probably not far off for the kind of dates some of these ladies are expecting.

 

I dunno. Maybe some of the ladies here ought to do some accounting. Or maybe lay off the fake nails, mani pedis, hair extensions, and Botox so they can afford meeting a guy half way on getting to know them. Seeing how most guys don't even care about that stuff. Trust me. I work around all men. Most of them couldn't care less if you bought your dress at Salvation Army as long as it fits you well and is clean.

[Heatherknows]

Or maybe lay off the fake nails, mani pedis, hair extensions, and Botox so they can afford meeting a guy half way on getting to know them. Seeing how most guys don't even care about that stuff. Trust me. I work around all men. Most of them couldn't care less if you bought your dress at Salvation Army as long as it fits you well and is clean.

 

That wasn't my experience dating. The guys I dated wanted and expected a beautiful and intelligent woman who was polished from head to toe. They wanted perfection. I gave them the best that I could. And yes some of my dates probably spent about $200 on average sometimes more sometimes less but that was back in the 90's.

[Shining One]

I can see how some women can very easily get $500 to $1000 in free entertainment a year just casually dating.

This particular woman received about $1,200 per month. Of course, she was doing it on purpose and had no intention of actually getting in a relationship.

[Leigh 87]

I think the issue men have is not paying because I never did but the fact that it seems that some women only want to be traditional when it suits them. It just turns us off when we hear women saying how they don't need men and getting man whenever men want anything to be traditional but then at the drop of a dime turn into 50s housewives when it comes to certain issues. It is hypocrisy and we know it. Despite what some might say men can think with the right head and we know when we are being had.

 

If you really want chivalry inspire a man to want to do these things for you naturally but that would require some concessions on the part of both genders.

 

Actually. ...

 

I also prefer to do the cooking and cleaning.

[No_Go]

I'm on the polar opposite of described in this tread.

 

I ALWAYS offered to pay while dating, most often the whole thing, not only my portion. Guess what? Guys speculate with that!! I turned so many times into a cash cow, paying not only for entertainment of my men, but also living expenses and what not. "Oh, I feel emasculated"- says no one, never.

 

But to be fair, I've never done cooking and cleaning, and most of my dates and relationship partners gladly has done these for me... So there is some fairness

 

All that I share because I get annoyed when women are assigned as freeloaders in dating - the reverse exists too, and trust me, it is common (a few of my friends even have home-staying husbands, taking it one level further)

[SummerDreams]

This whole topic of who pays on the first few dates is so damn ambiguous! And doesn't indicate much of anything except that people are nervous, tentative, and don't know quite what to do.... and/or how what they do (or don't do) will be received.

 

This is why it's clever to eliminate the issue of money from the first date, even the first five minutes of the date. I don't mind if it doesn't sound romantic, it's a practical issue that sooner or later it will have to be dealt with. Why not take it out of the conversation and your minds early on? "Just wanted to say, I always like to pay my half of what we order, I hope it's ok with you. It is? Alright, issue solved, lets get to know each other now". Done.

 

It's not about the money, feminism, where everyone stands in the relationship or the financial status of each party. It's about fairness. If I don't want my man to "demand" from me sex and/or to do the whole cleaning up of the house later on and/or raise the kid by myself, sharing the bill seems essential to me from day one of the dating. This way I declare who I am, what I want, what I'm expecting and what I'm willing to give back.

[mrldii]

...I want all the perks of misogyny...

 

There are perks to the "hatred of women" that some women look forward to? Pray tell!

[katiegrl]

I don't care when one lives, spending $50-$100 per date on the first three dates is just DUMB.

 

There are lots of fun things to do that don't cost that much money, jeez.

 

Get creative. A daytime picnic, watching the sunset with a bottle of wine and some cheese and fruit....I know I would love that if I were into a guy. Many women would!

 

If a chick ONLY wants to be taken out to expensive restaurants, despite your offering other suggestions, then that's a red flag.

 

In this case, she *suggested* dinner. Not an expensive dinner, just a bite to eat. OP agreed!

 

Drinks and apps aren't expensive.

 

Next date, she suggested something inexpensive, badminton and hot chocolate after.

 

But according to some of you, she's an entitled princess. She asked the OP to play badminton. Lol

 

[shaking head at the absurdity]

Edited November 18, 2015 by katiegrl

[BluEyeL]

I heavily dated for 1 year and a half and the most controversy about paying for first dates that I've met was just on this forum! In real life men pay and do not bat an eye.

 

In 100% of cases, at the first date, I offered and in 90% of cases the gentleman did not accept my offer. I had instances when the gentleman did not offer to buy me the coffee or whatever. Those generally proved to not be very nice people from other points of view. They were also very few of them.

 

One time I insisted to pay, I didn't just half reached to my purse, I seriously insisted "please let me pay". The guy said no no no no... The reason I insisted so much is that I did NOT like him. I insisted more strongly with guys I did NOT like. Well this guy rejected my offer vigorously. When I turned him down for a second date, he asked me for the money back LOL I sent him cash in an envelope and I added extra $5 so he can buy himself candy, like a child that he is.

[SwordofFlame]

I don't care when one lives, spending $50-$100 per date on the first three dates is just DUMB.

 

There are lots of fun things to do that don't cost that much money, jeez.

 

Get creative. A daytime picnic, watching the sunset with a bottle of wine and some cheese and fruit....I know I would love that if I were into a guy. Many women would!

 

If a chick ONLY wants to be taken out to expensive restaurants, despite your offering other suggestions, then that's a red flag.

 

In this case, she *suggested* dinner. Not an expensive dinner, just a bite to eat. OP agreed!

 

Drinks and apps aren't expensive.

 

Next date, she suggested something inexpensive, badminton and hot chocolate after.

 

But according to some of you, she's an entitled princess. She asked the OP to play badminton. Lol

 

[shaking head at the absurdity]

Drinks and apps in NYC can routinely get up in the $50-$100 range per date. It all depends on where you live.

[BluEyeL]

BTW yeah, first date should be coffee.

[katiegrl]

Drinks and apps in NYC can routinely get up in the $50-$100 range per date. It all depends on where you live.

 

Okay I stand corrected on that.

 

My response? Do something else...that doesn't cost that much.

 

It is 2-3 dates, and it would be a great way to weed out the goddiggers, or actual "entitled princesses" from the women who are into you and interested in getting to know you.

 

And not just being wined and dined...

[No_Go]

Hah where do you leave BY? I'd move there:D In my dating experiences men never rejected me paying (usually for both of us). Also I noticed no correlation between paying habits and desire for relationship / serious intentions in men.

 

Cool move with the guy that asked you to return him the money haha

 

 

I heavily dated for 1 year and a half and the most controversy about paying for first dates that I've met was just on this forum! In real life men pay and do not bat an eye.

 

In 100% of cases, at the first date, I offered and in 90% of cases the gentleman did not accept my offer. I had instances when the gentleman did not offer to buy me the coffee or whatever. Those generally proved to not be very nice people from other points of view. They were also very few of them.

 

One time I insisted to pay, I didn't just half reached to my purse, I seriously insisted "please let me pay". The guy said no no no no... The reason I insisted so much is that I did NOT like him. I insisted more strongly with guys I did NOT like. Well this guy rejected my offer vigorously. When I turned him down for a second date, he asked me for the money back LOL I sent him cash in an envelope and I added extra $5 so he can buy himself candy, like a child that he is.

[katiegrl]

I heavily dated for 1 year and a half and the most controversy about paying for first dates that I've met was just on this forum! In real life men pay and do not bat an eye.

 

In 100% of cases, at the first date, I offered and in 90% of cases the gentleman did not accept my offer. I had instances when the gentleman did not offer to buy me the coffee or whatever. Those generally proved to not be very nice people from other points of view. They were also very few of them.

 

One time I insisted to pay, I didn't just half reached to my purse, I seriously insisted "please let me pay". The guy said no no no no... The reason I insisted so much is that I did NOT like him. I insisted more strongly with guys I did NOT like. Well this guy rejected my offer vigorously. When I turned him down for a second date, he asked me for the money back LOL I sent him cash in an envelope and I added extra $5 so he can buy himself candy, like a child that he is.

 

That is funny! And I loved the way you handled it! Lol

 

And yeah, I hear ya about offering to pay when you are NOT into him and don't want a second date.

 

Many guys know this too, which is why they get insulted.... as I discussed earlier.

[SwordofFlame]

The more I think about it with OLD and the multi-dating that happens through it...the more I think the costs should be split early on. Men go on so many dates with women early on where no one knows if it's going to lead to anything more. There are women that like to reciprocate later on, but what if later on never happens? There are also women who also just like to be taken out for a free meal. And you also have the entitled women that think their company is worth the cost.

 

It's different if you already knew the person through friends or work. In those cases, the likelihood that they would be multi-dating is a lot lower. Paying for the first few dates then doesn't seem like it would as big of an issue.

[katiegrl]

The more I think about it with OLD and the multi-dating that happens through it...the more I think the costs should be split early on. Men go on so many dates with women early on where no one knows if it's going to lead to anything more. There are women that like to reciprocate later on, but what if later on never happens? There are also women who also just like to be taken out for a free meal. And you also have the entitled women that think their company is worth the cost.

 

It's different if you already knew the person through friends or work. In those cases, the likelihood that they would be multi-dating is a lot lower. Paying for the first few dates then doesn't seem like it would as big of an issue.

 

First paragraph -- all the more reason to keep the first 2-3 dates inexpensive!

 

Regardless of whether you are splitting or not!

 

As you said, neither one of you knows whether or not it's gonna lead anywhere, so why is anyone shelling out lots of money?

 

After 2-3 dates (in most cases after the first meet!) ...you know whether you click and if it's "going somewhere" ..or has the potential to go somewhere.

 

After that, then it should be more of an equal give and take IMO.

 

But the first 2-3? Keep it cheap! If she offers to split.. fabulous. If not, you are not out a lot of money.

 

BTW, there was a male poster who used to post here, that for the first meet, took her for ice cream! The woman never had a problem with this, they loved it! Cause they liked HIM!

Edited November 18, 2015 by katiegrl

[Redfisher]

Simple first meets are great...With my current girl it was a take out coffee, a blanket on the ground beside the river and we talked for hours....Then made out like high school kids...Haha, Honestly I have been finding the 30 to 40 year old girls love making out more then the girls from my high school days..Awesome.

[RedRobin]

I don't care when one lives, spending $50-$100 per date on the first three dates is just DUMB.

 

There are lots of fun things to do that don't cost that much money, jeez.

 

Get creative. A daytime picnic, watching the sunset with a bottle of wine and some cheese and fruit....I know I would love that if I were into a guy. Many women would!

 

If a chick ONLY wants to be taken out to expensive restaurants, despite your offering other suggestions, then that's a red flag.

 

In this case, she *suggested* dinner. Not an expensive dinner, just a bite to eat. OP agreed!

 

Drinks and apps aren't expensive.

 

Next date, she suggested something inexpensive, badminton and hot chocolate after.

 

But according to some of you, she's an entitled princess. She asked the OP to play badminton. Lol

 

[shaking head at the absurdity]

 

Please read again. 3 to 4 dates for a TOTAL of $50 to $100 dollars spent on you. Take 50 and divide by four. Take 100 and divide by four. That's 10 to 25 dollars each date you expect him to spend on you... Of course, he is still covering his own. So double that since he is paying for himself and you.

 

That's an inexpensive date. I'd be curious to know how much the OP spent total.

 

$100 for a guy to not even know if you are all that interested... And for some of the ladies here... Are taking from multiple men simultaneously while they get to know a guy.

 

This is why I always offer and I don't multi date. doing otherwise just feels unfair and fleecing a guy I don't know. I wouldn't like it if he were trying to sleep with me without knowing his feelings and while trying to sleep with other women. I don't see how this is any different. It's all about intentions and mutual respect.

 

I seriously have no idea why men put up with dating women who don't even offer... Especially the multidaters. Unless they are just too afraid to rock the boat.

 

maybe these guys should just send women the $100 check and skip the dates...that's about how much sense it makes to me.

 

Reminds me of a joke I heard from a bitter divorced guy... 'Why get remarried? I'll just find a woman I hate and buy her a house.' Hilarious.

[BluEyeL]

Hah where do you leave BY? I'd move there:D In my dating experiences men never rejected me paying (usually for both of us). Also I noticed no correlation between paying habits and desire for relationship / serious intentions in men.

 

Cool move with the guy that asked you to return him the money haha

 

I live in a boring Midwestern state. I don't think it's the location. First 6 months on the market I attracted low quality men. Then I had a 3 month fling and then I attracted much higher quality men. I changed my profile and also I became very confident. Men didn't really dare not try to impress from that point on.

[BluEyeL]

That is funny! And I loved the way you handled it! Lol

 

And yeah, I hear ya about offering to pay when you are NOT into him and don't want a second date.

 

Many guys know this too, which is why they get insulted.... as I discussed earlier.

 

Yes, I went out a few times with a guy who made much less than me and I kept offering to pay. Every time I was offering he had a panicked look on his face and was asking "why? why?"

 

Even my current Bf of 1.5 years is asking "why' often when I offer to pay. He does let me sometimes, say once every 5 times. Some men are weird, they think they should pay. he never asks "why", when I cook btw. That's "normal". And I'm not offended that "my place is in the kitchen"

[Shining One]

One time I insisted to pay, I didn't just half reached to my purse, I seriously insisted "please let me pay". The guy said no no no no... The reason I insisted so much is that I did NOT like him. I insisted more strongly with guys I did NOT like. Well this guy rejected my offer vigorously. When I turned him down for a second date, he asked me for the money back LOL I sent him cash in an envelope and I added extra $5 so he can buy himself candy, like a child that he is.

I imagine that if all women came with a money-back guarantee, we would not be having this debate.