She didn't offer to split the bill. Should i disregard her?

[Ic1]

This last one has pretty much been my experience when offering to pay on first date.

 

If I ever become single again, I try the other two! :bunny:

 

I offer to pay the first tab if she will pay the next tab. As in under the condition we do something else and she pays for it.

 

Ends up rolling into a system where we take turns.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thanks, but we've been together 5+ ...living together for 3 ... so not worried.

 

He pretty much nipped his drinking and partying ways in the bud immediately after meeting me...rarely touches the stuff, hasn't for years.

 

Sorry for your experience though....wish you both the best.

 

It isn't about the timeframe per se. More about Tue changes etc. Such as marriage, pregnancy etc.

 

We had already been married 4 when the first relapse happened.

[BluEyeL]

Well I don't know but it's a confusing area and advice tells women to let the man pay for the first 3 dates. I would not discount her just yet. Right on wrong, many people don't know what they should do. Most of my dates didn't let me pay initially.

[salparadise]

sal, my issue with what RR wrote was not that this girl is a heavy drinker, I believe the OP in that respect.

 

My issue was what RR said about her expecting others others to foot her drinking habits.

 

There is NO evidence to support that!

 

The OP mentioned NOTHING about that whatsoever.

 

She *assumed* it based on her own negative dating experiences.

 

With respect to her being a *princess* because she didn't pay for first date, the OP himself admitted he MIS-judged her on that!

 

But yet for some reason, RR still insisted on harping on what a princess she is blah blah.

 

You said we should take the OP at his word. So his word, as of his later post, was that he MIS-judged her.

 

So why don't we take his word on that, and give this a rest?

 

Should we take his word that she's a princess, but NOTtake his word that he MIS-judged her? Why?

 

Last paragraph -- lol yeah I post too damn much, guilty as charged!

 

 

Well, we have different interpretations. I don't think the OP's initial concern has been invalidated by the fact that he gave her a second chance and she paid for a cup of hot chocolate. He decided to give her the benefit of the doubt and look at things from a larger perspective, which is fine, but then he realizes that she's a heavy drinker... in the meantime the thread evolved into a more conceptual (more relevant and interesting) discussion based in principle.

 

You were on the other side of that argument from RR, me and a few others and now you're harping, selectively, on technical points rather than logical arguments, typing in all caps, and telling everyone we must put the genie (the larger issue) back in the bottle. Nope, not about to happen. You don't get to dictate the direction of limits of the discussion. You can try I guess, but the only way anyone is going to take you seriously is if you make good arguments that address the larger issues, imho at least.

[Heatherknows]

Well, we have different interpretations. I don't think the OP's initial concern has been invalidated by the fact that he gave her a second chance and she paid for a cup of hot chocolate.

 

It would be funny if they got married and years later they were fighting about money and he said "I knew you were like this when we dated. You didn't pay for anything!" and she says "You're such a liar. I bought you that hot chocolate!"

[Redfisher]

It would be funny if they got married and years later they were fighting about money and he said "I knew you were like this when we dated. You didn't pay for anything!" and she says "You're such a liar. I bought you that hot chocolate!"

 

I would bet money this indeed will happen...haha

[RedRobin]

.... Or more like, they get married, they have a couple of kids, doubles her waistline (badminton is the limit of her physical exertion), she insists on not working, and she only has sex with him once a month. They get divorced and she takes half his earnings, the house, part of his retirement, then finds some other sucker to fund her life... After she uses the alimony and child support to get liposuction and a trainer, lol.

 

The former husbands of this kind of woman is what I get to face in my dating pool. These men are angry and don't want to be treated like that again. Can't say I blame them. It is a shame though, considering that I was never like that.

Edited November 16, 2015 by RedRobin

[Heatherknows]

.... Or more like, they get married, they have a couple of kids, doubles her waistline (badminton is the limit of her physical exertion), she insists on not working, and she only has sex with him once a month. They get divorced and she takes half his earnings, the house, part of his retirement, then finds some other sucker to fund her life... After she uses the alimony and child support to get liposuction and a trainer, lol.

 

The former husbands of this kind of woman is what I get to face in my dating pool. These men are angry and don't want to be treated like that again. Can't say I blame them. It is a shame though, considering that I was never like that.

 

That's depressing.

[katiegrl]

Well, we have different interpretations. I don't think the OP's initial concern has been invalidated by the fact that he gave her a second chance and she paid for a cup of hot chocolate. He decided to give her the benefit of the doubt and look at things from a larger perspective, which is fine, but then he realizes that she's a heavy drinker... in the meantime the thread evolved into a more conceptual (more relevant and interesting) discussion based in principle.

 

You were on the other side of that argument from RR, me and a few others and now you're harping, selectively, on technical points rather than logical arguments, typing in all caps, and telling everyone we must put the genie (the larger issue) back in the bottle. Nope, not about to happen. You don't get to dictate the direction of limits of the discussion.

 

 

 

 

**You can try I guess, but the only way anyone is going to take you seriously is if you make good arguments that address the larger issues, imho at least.

**

 

Oh, I see. My arguments aren't logical, but making assumptions about things that have never even been stated, expressed or implied in this thread are?

 

Okay, we disagree about the paying issue, fair enough

 

But to then go on and assume she expects others to fund her drinking, or now, her getting fat (as all she does is play badminton)... among other assumptions based on zero evidence .....come on now.

 

I am done arguing this now. I have already explained my position, logically and rationally. I put certain words in all caps for emphssis.... as I cannot bold when I post from my phone. I am not yelling or acting illogically.

 

Bottom line, I prefer to give people the benefit of any doubt on those early dates. And there should be doubt, as on those early dates we don't know each other yet. And we all have had different experiences prior to meeting that shape our outlook on various issues.

 

That's it.

 

I wish y'all the best and RR, I hope things get better for you.

Edited November 16, 2015 by katiegrl

[dads new boyfriend]

LOL ...if it's not one thing ...it's another!

 

OP, do you even want a relationship?

 

Beginning to wonder....

 

Yes I do, just not with this girl now. Not that there's anything wrong with getting drunk most weekends i'm just over all that and want someone on the same page as me, and also can't be bothered with any potential future drama or stressing about her safety or if she's going to be taken advantage of.

[serial muse]

Thank you. So i'll have to admit now that i was completely in the wrong and shouldn't have judged her so quickly. She had badminton equipment with her so i only had to pay a small amount to rent the court and we went for hot chocolate afterwards which she paid for.

 

Unfortunately i realised we're not compatible as she mentioned that she goes out drinking most weekends and sometimes gets so drunk that she can't remember what happened, which i consider a deal breaker. After that i told her i wasn't looking for anything too serious but she's still happy to see me again. I'm not quite sure why this thread got 15 pages of responses but i'm grateful for all the advice.

 

Seems reasonable to me - good luck with the next person!

 

This thread reminds me of the rainbow cake comment apocalypse. I think the bottom line is that people basically enjoy getting intense and opinionated about stuff, on their lunch breaks.

[casey.lives]

you invited her .. on a date... on a first date...... she shouldn't have to offer!!!

[lollipopspot]

.... Or more like, they get married, they have a couple of kids, doubles her waistline (badminton is the limit of her physical exertion), she insists on not working, and she only has sex with him once a month. They get divorced and she takes half his earnings, the house, part of his retirement, then finds some other sucker to fund her life... After she uses the alimony and child support to get liposuction and a trainer, lol.

 

Lol - how the heck did you get all that from this thread?! I think if a guy is that scared of having a dependent, unfit, sexless woman, he needs to take precautions (like not marrying a dependent, unfit, sexless woman, and communicating throughout the relationship).

[RedRobin]

Lol - how the heck did you get all that from this thread?! I think if a guy is that scared of having a dependent, unfit, sexless woman, he needs to take precautions (like not marrying a dependent, unfit, sexless woman, and communicating throughout the relationship).

 

Sheesh, don't take it so serious. People were projecting their 'future' and I thought I'd play along...

 

OTOH, people with entitlement issues, in this case, some women and money (ie, they feel entitled to his without offering any of theirs... Why?)... It does follow into their relationship and what they consider 'equitable'. I don't think buying a cup of hot chocolate in return for what the OP offered is anything close to equitable.... So, if that is the pattern he wants to establish, so be it.

 

I think men ought to put some thought into what patterns they are establishing early on... Along with the expectations that go along with it.

[KatZee]

I'm sure this link is going to make feminist minds explode, I'm sure red-pillers will combust as well.

 

Here Is Why Paying For The Date Is Not About The Money | James Michael Sama

 

But, this. All of this. For the first few initial dates, THIS.

 

If you are taking me out on a first date, and you're expecting I pay half, and if I don't you're considering dropping me, I'm not interested.

 

I want to go out on a DATE. Not have dinner or drinks with a friend.

[Buddhist]

I think men ought to put some thought into what patterns they are establishing early on... Along with the expectations that go along with it.

 

This, except I will say people of both genders should do this. I can't get over the number of threads where someone has gotten into a FWB scenario then wondered why they're not getting a commited relationship out of it, for example.

 

Relationships generally follow the pattern they were established on. If you started one based on one person getting more out of it than the other (whichever way you want to count that) then it's not going to suddenly right itself some time down the track. People seem to have this false expectation that the other person is looking out for fairness in the relationship and is going to save them, from themselves basically. No. It doesn't happen that way. People will give you exactly what you ask for and expect of them, generally no more. So don't expect so little in the beginning if what you really want is more.

 

If I were a guy, I'd do exactly what I do now. I'd offer to pay my half of the bill. If the other person wanted to be gallant and cover the cost in some grand gesture. I'd express appreciation and then make sure I got the next one. I've never gone on any date and failed to put my hand in pocket in a genuine attempt to cover my own costs. For me, that's a very important part of setting the tone on what I expect. Yes I cover my own costs, but in the same time don't think I'll be funding yours automatically either.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Buddhist

[katiegrl]

I'm sure this link is going to make feminist minds explode, I'm sure red-pillers will combust as well.

 

Here Is Why Paying For The Date Is Not About The Money | James Michael Sama

 

But, this. All of this. For the first few initial dates, THIS.

 

If you are taking me out on a first date, and you're expecting I pay half, and if I don't you're considering dropping me, I'm not interested.

 

I want to go out on a DATE. Not have dinner or drinks with a friend.

 

Great article KZ... sums it up beautifully.

 

 

That is how my current RL started out.... and as I said, after 3-4 dates (or 4-5 can't remember) -- I started initiating and paying.

 

 

This worked beautifully for US.

 

 

If other guys insist on the woman splitting from date one, that's their deal. I wish them luck.

[Leigh 87]

Sheesh, don't take it so serious. People were projecting their 'future' and I thought I'd play along...

 

OTOH, people with entitlement issues, in this case, some women and money (ie, they feel entitled to his without offering any of theirs... Why?)... It does follow into their relationship and what they consider 'equitable'. I don't think buying a cup of hot chocolate in return for what the OP offered is anything close to equitable.... So, if that is the pattern he wants to establish, so be it.

 

I think men ought to put some thought into what patterns they are establishing early on... Along with the expectations that go along with .

 

 

 

 

I only date men who genuinely WANT to be the one to take their woman out and treat them.

 

It's honestly who I am. I need the man to fundamentally prefer to be the one to treat women to dates.

 

This is where I differ from entitled women; I absolutely believe it should still be 50/50. Yes I have a preference regarding HOW the money is dispersed. ... however, I INSIST on compensation for the dates I am treated to.........

 

For me, it definitely needs to be a two way street.... the man tends to pay but I will still pull my weight by giving back in other ways. I tend to clean and do more maintenance around the house. I am the one who got my boyfriend the latest smart phone and pay his phone bill because I SAW how badly he got excited about new phones yet he isn't the type who treats himself to such luxuries. So I did something expensive for him that thrilled him......

 

After all, paying his phone bill and doing more than my share of cleaning (it's 60/40 where he still helps a lot ) this feels like an even split considering he pays when we eat out and he is the ne who does random nice things to spoil me ( such as book a weekend away someplace nice )

 

Despite my strong preference of dating men who prefer to be the ones to pay for dates, my relationships are still very equal in terms of expenditure. I still splash out and spoil them right back. Having a preference for a man who prefers to treat a woman doesn't mean the woman in question takes advantage of him and takes far more than she gives.

 

My parents raised me to be generous to a fault. ... they also raised me to strive for a fellow generous man who prefered to be the one to treat me. I was raised through to feel ashamed of myself if I didn't reciprocate generous gestures from people. .....my parents would be on my case asking me what I had done in return.....to help a friend who had given to me. ....

 

So yeah. Not all us women that like to be treated and wined and dined are not equally as generous in other ways! This is simply ONE preference that isn't NECESSARILY indicative of our overall nature.

 

And lastly. .... I don't feel entitled. ... I am upfront and honest on my dating preference when it ones to meals..... it is important to me so I make an effort to talk about my views regarding dates and splitting bills........ I give the men an opportunity to leave if ny style doesn't align with theirs........I've had one man who didn't believe in spoiling. Beyond the first few dates. So I got rid of him. I am not entitled to his money so I let him free to go and take equal turns paying with someone who was compatible with him.

Edited June 17, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Shining One]

Despite my strong preference of dating men who prefer to be the ones to pay for dates, my relationships are still very equal in terms of expenditure.

The key word in your post is relationships. Most of us are talking about the dating phase prior to a relationship. Do you maintain the house for a man you've been on two or three dates with? Do you buy gifts for him?

 

I'll pose this question to all of the ladies who prefer that the man invests for the first X number of dates before you decide to contribute: How do you reciprocate for those men you decide to drop before you typically contribute?

[salparadise]

**

 

Oh, I see. My arguments aren't logical, but making assumptions about things that have never even been stated, expressed or implied in this thread are?

 

Okay, we disagree about the paying issue, fair enough

 

But to then go on and assume she expects others to fund her drinking, or now, her getting fat (as all she does is play badminton)... among other assumptions based on zero evidence .....come on now.

 

I didn't make those assumptions--not a word about her expecting someone else to pay for her drinking, being fat, or anything else that wasn't previously established. However, I do think that people who have an attitude of entitlement will typically apply it broadly, not just in one very specific situation.

 

I'm not saying that your arguments were not valid, just pointing out that you tried to dissuade further discussion of the main topic based on a technicality––the fact that OP gave her another chance and she paid for hot chocolate.

 

I put certain words in all caps for emphssis.... as I cannot bold when I post from my phone. I am not yelling or acting illogically.

 

All caps is generally considered to be the equivalent of yelling.

 

I was encouraging you to make logical arguments that address the main points being discussed. That's not the same as accusing you of being illogical. I just found it irksome that you were trying to moderate the discourse by declaring certain points to be moot, disproven or out of bounds.

 

This has been an excellent discussion on a topic that's absolutely relevant to modern dating etiquette. There is plenty of room for everyone to express their perspective. If you want to be heard above the noise, make good arguments.

[katiegrl]

I didn't make those assumptions--not a word about her expecting someone else to pay for her drinking, being fat, or anything else that wasn't previously established. However, I do think that people who have an attitude of entitlement will typically apply it broadly, not just in one very specific situation.

 

 

 

The bolded is the only part of your post I will respond to because as I said, I have stated my position. I am done explaining it further.

 

Now to the bolded -- I wasn't referring to you, and had you read all the posts, you would have noticed that it was Red Robin who had assumed those things, and it was Red Robin to whom I originally responded, until you chimed in.... after which my posts were in response your comments.

[Leigh 87]

The key word in your post is relationships. Most of us are talking about the dating phase prior to a relationship. Do you maintain the house for a man you've been on two or three dates with? Do you buy gifts for him?

 

I'll pose this question to all of the ladies who prefer that the man invests for the first X number of dates before you decide to contribute: How do you reciprocate for those men you decide to drop before you typically contribute?

 

 

My own boyfriend didn't take me on dates out to fancy places initially. He didn't have the means to.

 

I shouted HIM the first drink on our first date. Whichwas drinks at a nice venue.

He got me a subway on date two..... which I really appreciated. So I insisted on buying the DVDS......

 

But yeah after that we just hung out and he'd buy dinner and cook it at home or we would have already eaten prior........and nights we did go out he paid but by the time he did that we were clearly smitten with each other! So within the first month he took me out only a couple of times. We were focusing on whether or not we were a match! I don't feel comfortable with a guy actually taking me out for more than just drinks initially. .... unless he's a high income earner..and I knew my bf wasn't a high income earner so I felt more comfortable sticking to shouting each other drinks the first few weeks before he splurged on dinners out (where he always

 

The times we DO eat out, he pays.....But make no mistake. ... I knew he had an average to low paying job so I aimed my expectations accordingly. I don't believe in just having a guy splurge on me in the very early stages before we knew whether it's going anywhere. The only exception is if the guy was clearly loaded and seemed to WANT to splurge on me.....which my bf clearly wasn't in that position so I treated him to drinks and treated him like a guy on an average wage who simply couldn't afford unlimited drinks and stuff.

 

My boyfriend is the one who pays on dates but there weren't many dinner dates to be had to begin with. The times we go out he pays and shares my traditional values of the man taking the woman out.........

[hotpotato]

Be cautious.

 

My husband was the same way.

 

Quit drinking the week he met me.

Stayed sober until we married and had our first child five years later.

 

He relapsed one night.

Then about a year later, same thing.

It slowly slid downhill after that to the point where last year he hit the bottle VERY HARD.

 

Relying on a relationship to fill the void for poor coping skills can work for awhile (maybe even a long while) but if the root cause is left undealt with, the risk increases of going back to previous behaviour depending on factors like childhood programming and family issues.

 

In my case, I believe my husband felt trapped by becoming a father, which he also enjoyed becoming but felt unworthy of and had no decent template to become.

 

He was abandoned by his own father, and subsequently by four other father-figures.

 

Recently he's been tackling the root of these issues and has done, well, amazingly well. But that cake at a very high price. When someone drinks (hugely, as you put it) there's a reason for it.

This is true. Many addicts escalate during stressful situations

[Leigh 87]

I personally don't do dinner dates right away.

 

I don't feel comfortable taking a mans money when I am never that into them. I always suggest coffee or an ice cream. Something inexpensive. Even a walk. I don't like wasting my college funds as a student on eating out to begin with and prefer saving for my future and travel. ........ so since I don't want to part with my limited income when it comes to dinners out, I don't expect to leach off men who do; I'll always state my preferences of low key watching dvds and wine nights and beach walks and occasional movies; my guy knows I don't believe in regularly dining out as I save hard for other priorities.

 

I am far from a woman who gleefully takes a mans money! I just like the OCCASIONAL once a month dinner out that ny bf pays for. And not even during the first few dates and NOT all the time during the relationship. ........ once a month is my ideal for dinner dates based in his income.

[Leigh 87]

My bf got laid off a week ago unfortunately.

 

I sure don't want him taking me out for dinner when he has no new income coming in.

 

I love him for more than his wallet.

 

Getting treated to dates is a feminine thing I just RELISH but I don't expect it when he's lost his job. And I also make sure to treat him and help him a little when he's come on hard times.

 

All this is coming from a woman who loves guys being the ones to treat ME to all our dates yet I go about it in a dignified manner.

 

How does anone know whether or not the OPs girl wouldn't be like me?