She didn't offer to split the bill. Should i disregard her?

[RedRobin]

well, after the first go around and the hair going up on your neck a bit, at least you are clear you won't be escorting her on the drinking excursions or whatever else she does for fun.

 

 

I guess she'll have to find somebody else... or lots of someone elses... to fund that

[katiegrl]

Be careful, this thread is about to go on for another 15 pages about *WOMEN WHO DRINK*

 

LOL ...if it's not one thing ...it's another!

 

OP, do you even want a relationship?

 

Beginning to wonder....

[katiegrl]

well, after the first go around and the hair going up on your neck a bit, at least you are clear you won't be escorting her on the drinking excursions or whatever else she does for fun.

 

 

I guess she'll have to find somebody else... or lots of someone elses... to fund that

 

Did you miss the part where OP said she paid for hot chocolate?

 

Just a small gesture, but speaks volumes!

 

So judgmental ....ugh.

[dreamingoftigers]

Did you miss the part where OP said she paid for hot chocolate?

 

Just a small gesture, but speaks volumes!

 

So judgmental ....ugh.

 

the drinking sounds pretty awful. I wouldn't go there either, no matter how much hot chocolate she bought.

[katiegrl]

the drinking sounds pretty awful. I wouldn't go there either, no matter how much hot chocolate she bought.

 

Yeah I guess.

 

It's a gamble for sure. I was lucky, as even though my fiance was a HUGE drinker before he met me, that all changed after he met me, and now neither of us hardly drink at all anymore!

 

Love/Relationships can change people.

[losangelena]

I can see OP's hesitancy to get involved with someone who drinks to the point of not remembering—but again, this is his PREFERENCE. There are plenty of young guys who would not only not worry about it, but would love to join her in such pursuits.

 

Sure, it's easy for me, as a 35 year old person, to say, "been there, done that, have the t-shirt, don't want to go back," but again it's a contextual thing. That's what being young and immature and learning about life is about. I see no value in accusing this girl (who cannot even defend herself!) of being entitled or suggesting that she's unfit for a relationship here and forevermore. That's some sanctimonious BS. Who amongst us has not done stupid things in our youth?

 

Now, I'm NOT saying OP should date her—he's free to do as he wishes—but there's no reason to think that this woman will not one day mature and make someone a very happy man.

[RedRobin]

I was over that when I was 20... Oh wait, because I was working and going to school full time. And had lived on my own since I was 17. Silly me. Priorities.

 

This girl is into partying and mostly having others pay for it, sounds like. There is not much attractive about that.

[katiegrl]

I was over that when I was 20... Oh wait, because I was working and going to school full time. And had lived on my own since I was 17. Silly me. Priorities.

 

This girl is into partying and mostly having others pay for it, sounds like. There is not much attractive about that.

 

Where the hell do you get she *expects* others to pay for it (her drinking)?

 

He didn't say or even imply anything of the sort! At least I didn't see it.

 

Can you point out where he said that?

 

You need to stop with all your assumptions, sheesh!

[smackie9]

Has the OP mentioned going on the second date?

[katiegrl]

Has the OP mentioned going on the second date?

 

Post no. 225.

[katiegrl]

I can see OP's hesitancy to get involved with someone who drinks to the point of not remembering—but again, this is his PREFERENCE. There are plenty of young guys who would not only not worry about it, but would love to join her in such pursuits.

 

 

 

**Sure, it's easy for me, as a 35 year old person, to say, "been there, done that, have the t-shirt, don't want to go back," but again it's a contextual thing. That's what being young and immature and learning about life is about. I see no value in accusing this girl (who cannot even defend herself!) of being entitled or suggesting that she's unfit for a relationship here and forevermore. That's some **sanctimonious *** BS. Who amongst us has not done stupid things in our youth? ****

 

Now, I'm NOT saying OP should date her—he's free to do as he wishes—but there's no reason to think that this woman will not one day mature and make someone a very happy man.

 

LA you are soooooooo right, some sanctimonious (and self-righteous) BS going on in this thread ....

 

Talk about unattractive... pfft.

[RedRobin]

Where the hell do you get she *expects* others to pay for it (her drinking)?

 

He didn't say or even imply anything of the sort! At least I didn't see it.

 

Can you point out where he said that?

 

You need to stop with all your assumptions, sheesh!

 

Let's see, she upped the initial date to dinner, and chose the location, and he paid. They did something after that, and he paid. The went on a second date, and he paid. Oh wait, she covered his hot chocolate. Lol. Whoopee.

 

The only reason this annoys me is because this is how men get burnt out and bitter about dating. Then women like me get to deal with the fallout of them dealing with all the entitled chicks out there who can't bring themselves to be fair and equitable about things in the early stages or maybe any stage when it comes to money. And probably weren't that interested in him anyway. They just like being 'treated'. Yea well. Who doesn't?

 

The OP sounds like a nice guy. I hate to see him or any guys get taken for a ride. Partly because what it does to them emotionally that other women (like me) have to deal with when the princess is done with him.

 

Pull your own weight... It's not that hard.

Edited November 15, 2015 by RedRobin

[katiegrl]

Let's see, she upped the initial date to dinner, and chose the location, and he paid. They did something after that, and he paid. The went on a second date, and he paid. Oh wait, she covered his hot chocolate. Lol. Whoopee.

 

The only reason this annoys me is because this is how men get burnt out and bitter about dating. Then women like me get to deal with the fallout of them dealing with all the entitled chicks out there who can't bring themselves to be fair and equitable about things in the early stages or maybe any stage when it comes to money. And probably weren't that interested in him anyway. They just like being 'treated'. Yea well. Who doesn't?

 

The OP sounds like a nice guy. I hate to see him or any guys get taken for a ride. Partly because what it does to them emotionally that other women (like me) have to deal with when the princess is done with him.

 

Third paragraph, I agree with you, and I am sorry it's been difficult for you (and other women,).

 

But I think it's wrong to make negative assumptions/accusations about people with little evidence to support it, and especially when they're not even here to defend those accusations.

 

Yes OP paid for first date, but on second, she brought the badminton equipment and paid for hot chocolate.

 

You're right, big whoop it was only hot chococate, but what it indicated was how she feels about pitching in financially on dates!

 

Perhaps if they had gone for a meal instead, she would have paid for that!

 

The OP got that and realized he was wrong for judging her, why can't you?

 

Re the drinking, okay she's a drinker, red flag, but your assumption/accusation that she expects others to fund her drinking (and that she is a *princess*) was way over the top ...and not supported by any evidence ...other than your own negative dating experiences.

 

That is wrong IMO.

Edited November 15, 2015 by katiegrl

[Shining One]

The only reason this annoys me is because this is how men get burnt out and bitter about dating.

There is some truth to this. A lot of people are saying it's "no big deal" because it's only two dates in this case, but they don't realize how this adds up. A long period of failed dates (not leading to relationships) can become a significant amount of money. A few years ago, I decided to buy my mom a Lexus ES for her 55th birthday. I analyzed my costs for the previous year and found that I had spent around $5,000 on dates. I actually took a year off dating due to my frustration and to put that extra money into the car.

Yes OP paid for first date, but on second, she brought the badminton equipment and paid for hot chocolate.

 

You're right, big whoop it was only hot chococate, but what it indicated was how she feels about pitching in financially on dates!

 

Perhaps if they had gone for a meal instead, she would have paid for that!

I read this a bit differently. You're right in that it's still too little information to draw long term conclusions on. On the first date, the OP covered all of the costs. On the second date, the OP covered the court costs and his date covered the hot chocolate. If a woman had covered all of the costs on a first date with me, then I would have covered all of the costs on the second date, not just one item. I've dated women who "pick and choose" where to contribute and I don't find that equitable at all.

[salparadise]

But I think it's wrong to make negative assumptions/accusations about people with little evidence to support it, and especially when they're not even here to defend those accusations.

 

 

Oh 'cmon now, katie. Damn near every thread on this forum begins with a poster describing the behavior of a third person, who is not on the forum, and we take the poster at his/her word.

 

This thread hasn't gone to nearly 250 posts because everyone is highly enthusiastic about giving a bit of advice––it's because there is an underlying principle involving a custom that many see as archaic and unfair, and others are determined to defend to the death so they can keep reaping the rewards.

 

BTW, you're currently the winner with by virtue of having the highest post count in the thread at 29... nearly 3X that of the OP.

[Redfisher]

Oh 'cmon now, katie. Damn near every thread on this forum begins with a poster describing the behavior of a third person, who is not on the forum, and we take the poster at his/her word.

 

This thread hasn't gone to nearly 250 posts because everyone is highly enthusiastic about giving a bit of advice––it's because there is an underlying principle involving a custom that many see as archaic and unfair, and others are determined to defend to the death so they can keep reaping the rewards.

 

BTW, you're currently the winner with by virtue of having the highest post count in the thread at 29... nearly 3X that of the OP.

 

Oh snap...

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah I guess.

 

It's a gamble for sure. I was lucky, as even though my fiance was a HUGE drinker before he met me, that all changed after he met me, and now neither of us hardly drink at all anymore!

 

Love/Relationships can change people.

 

Be cautious.

 

My husband was the same way.

 

Quit drinking the week he met me.

Stayed sober until we married and had our first child five years later.

 

He relapsed one night.

Then about a year later, same thing.

It slowly slid downhill after that to the point where last year he hit the bottle VERY HARD.

 

Relying on a relationship to fill the void for poor coping skills can work for awhile (maybe even a long while) but if the root cause is left undealt with, the risk increases of going back to previous behaviour depending on factors like childhood programming and family issues.

 

In my case, I believe my husband felt trapped by becoming a father, which he also enjoyed becoming but felt unworthy of and had no decent template to become.

 

He was abandoned by his own father, and subsequently by four other father-figures.

 

Recently he's been tackling the root of these issues and has done, well, amazingly well. But that cake at a very high price. When someone drinks (hugely, as you put it) there's a reason for it.

[katiegrl]

Be cautious.

 

My husband was the same way.

 

Quit drinking the week he met me.

Stayed sober until we married and had our first child five years later.

 

He relapsed one night.

Then about a year later, same thing.

It slowly slid downhill after that to the point where last year he hit the bottle VERY HARD.

 

Relying on a relationship to fill the void for poor coping skills can work for awhile (maybe even a long while) but if the root cause is left undealt with, the risk increases of going back to previous behaviour depending on factors like childhood programming and family issues.

 

In my case, I believe my husband felt trapped by becoming a father, which he also enjoyed becoming but felt unworthy of and had no decent template to become.

 

He was abandoned by his own father, and subsequently by four other father-figures.

 

Recently he's been tackling the root of these issues and has done, well, amazingly well. But that cake at a very high price. When someone drinks (hugely, as you put it) there's a reason for it.

 

Thanks, but we've been together 5+ ...living together for 3 ... so not worried.

 

He pretty much nipped his drinking and partying ways in the bud immediately after meeting me...rarely touches the stuff, hasn't for years.

 

Sorry for your experience though....wish you both the best.

Edited November 16, 2015 by katiegrl

[katiegrl]

Oh 'cmon now, katie. Damn near every thread on this forum begins with a poster describing the behavior of a third person, who is not on the forum, and we take the poster at his/her word.

 

This thread hasn't gone to nearly 250 posts because everyone is highly enthusiastic about giving a bit of advice––it's because there is an underlying principle involving a custom that many see as archaic and unfair, and others are determined to defend to the death so they can keep reaping the rewards.

 

BTW, you're currently the winner with by virtue of having the highest post count in the thread at 29... nearly 3X that of the OP.

 

sal, my issue with what RR wrote was not that this girl is a heavy drinker, I believe the OP in that respect.

 

My issue was what RR said about her expecting others others to foot her drinking habits.

 

There is NO evidence to support that!

 

The OP mentioned NOTHING about that whatsoever.

 

She *assumed* it based on her own negative dating experiences.

 

With respect to her being a *princess* because she didn't pay for first date, the OP himself admitted he MIS-judged her on that!

 

But yet for some reason, RR still insisted on harping on what a princess she is blah blah.

 

You said we should take the OP at his word. So his word, as of his later post, was that he MIS-judged her.

 

So why don't we take his word on that, and give this a rest?

 

Should we take his word that she's a princess, but NOTtake his word that he MIS-judged her? Why?

 

Last paragraph -- lol yeah I post too damn much, guilty as charged!

Edited November 16, 2015 by katiegrl

[Buddhist]

I've dated women who "pick and choose" where to contribute and I don't find that equitable at all.

 

Yeah to be honest I don't know where women in this modern era get off expecting the guy to pick up the tab. In the olden days she would repay him in full by being an unpaid housekeeper for the rest of her life, thats where the custom came from. Women didn't have their own money back then. But these days? Where everyone earns their living themselves I actually think not sharing the expenses equally is pretty entitled as a attitude. Men don't need to pay for your company unless you are selling it by the hour; and then its not a date, its something else.

[katiegrl]

Yeah to be honest I don't know where women in this modern era get off expecting the guy to pick up the tab. In the olden days she would repay him in full by being an unpaid housekeeper for the rest of her life, thats where the custom came from. Women didn't have their own money back then. But these days? Where everyone earns their living themselves I actually think not sharing the expenses equally is pretty entitled as a attitude. Men don't need to pay for your company unless you are selling it by the hour; and then its not a date, its something else.

 

Have you read all the posts in this thread?

 

Specifically my posts describing my experience with offering to pay?

 

The answer to your first question above is all there.

[Buddhist]

Have you read all the posts in this thread?

 

Specifically my posts describing my experience with offering to pay?

 

The answer to your first question above is all there.

 

Yes I have read the entire thread. Did you realise my response wasn't in response to you but someone else? I don't care if other women justify it however, I think it's a custom in general that needs to die. If we want the perks of equality then picking up the reponsibilities of it is also a requirement. I see no reason why any woman in the modern should hold the expectation that a date pay for her, or pick up most of the tab. There is nothing so special about being female that a man is required to pay for the mere pleasure of our company.

[katiegrl]

Yes I have read the entire thread. Did you realise my response wasn't in response to you but someone else? I don't care if other women justify it however, I think it's a custom in general that needs to die. If we want the perks of equality then picking up the reponsibilities of it is also a requirement. I see no reason why any woman in the modern should hold the expectation that a date pay for her, or pick up most of the tab.

 

 

 

**There is nothing so special about being female that a man is required to pay for the mere pleasure of our company.***

 

I agree with you ^^... but unfortunately there"are" still men who insist on paying and get insulted when a woman offers for whatever reason, which confuses the hell out of things and often leaves women not knowing what to do!

 

But I do agree with you, and my fiance and I do just that. Equitable split all the way. We've done it that way pretty much from the get go, with the exception of first couple of dates wherein he insisted on paying.

Edited November 16, 2015 by katiegrl

[Ic1]

Perhaps this approach hasn't been brought up in 17 pages...

 

I usually end up offering to take the first bill if my date will get the next similar bill. Implying "let's do this again!" I've yet to get an uneven balance in cost with a women yet because these are my responses so far:

-"No, I'll take this one if you take me out again!"

-"How much was it? I'll make sure next time is at least $X."

-"Let's split this one" (Not interested in another)

[katiegrl]

Perhaps this approach hasn't been brought up in 17 pages...

 

I usually end up offering to take the first bill if my date will get the next similar bill. Implying "let's do this again!" I've yet to get an uneven balance in cost with a women yet because these are my responses so far:

 

-"No, I'll take this one if you take me out again!"

-"How much was it? I'll make sure next time is at least $X."

 

------

 

 

-"Let's split this one" (Not interested in another)

 

This last one has pretty much been my experience when offering to pay on first date.

 

If I ever become single again, I try the other two! :bunny: