Another chance after shy and desperate behaviour

[Vink]

It's a long read so I apologize in advance.

 

I met a girl online back in July. We’re the same age in our late 20s. We went out and it went really well. I showed a lot of interest in her and rarely broke eye contact. She told me it was the first time she went out with someone online and she didn't believe me when I said it was the same for me. She wanted to set up the next date before we went our separate ways. I told her I would get in touch and she was surprised that I gave her a hug. I tried to set up a follow-up and she said she was busy with family events and then she was going away for a wedding, so we could get together two weeks from then. I asked her to text me once she got back. I didn’t get a response that week so I texted her in the middle of the week and we made plans for Friday. I’m not sure what happened on that particular day, but I think asking family members for advice really affected me. I didn’t initiate any physical contact and I was generally nervous and passive. Flirting was at a minimum and, for some reason, I behaved as if I was at a job interview. We parted ways with another hug. I was hesitant for the common reasons: she was sweet and I didn't want to scare her. I also thought she was past the age where she would go for a bad boy or someone who plays games. On her social media (I followed her after the first date because I mistakenly liked one of her photos), she's been posting things about being single for years and I don't see any traces of a long-term relationship. She told me she was free for the weekend but I never followed up because I wrongly thought meeting up again so soon would kill her interest.

 

I contacted her in the middle of the week and asked her availability to arrange for a third date. She didn’t respond after 24 hours so I sent her another text. She apologized for missing the text and I asked if I could call her later that night. We spoke and she mentioned that she was looking into the dating service we met on once again. I almost avoided that comment because I didn’t know how to respond to it. We spoke a little bit and I asked if she was available on Thursday. She said she wasn’t and said she had another family event. I asked about Friday and she said she’s busy as well. I asked her what she was busy with, to which she didn’t give a clear answer. Then I asked about Sunday, telling her that I only had plans for Saturday. She told me she would get back to me. I took some more bad advice at this point. I was told that I should keep communicating with her so she doesn’t forget about me and I should offer to do things for her. I texted her the following day, saying I could make food for us when we go out on Sunday. Of course, she rejected me by text the following day. She said that the decision was a struggle since, on paper, I’m what she is looking for. She said that I’m sweet but that we’re different and she doesn't see it going anywhere. I texted her the following morning and said we should give it another shot because we’re both looking for people like each other. She said she would like to hang out again if I understand how she feels. I tried to meet her for coffee but she told me she was busy that day.

 

In early September, I texted her about a film festival that I thought she’d be interested in. We talked about it for a while and she asked if I’m going. I told her that I was, but I never invited her. She told me that she tried to buy tickets but she made a mistake and wasn’t able to. This festival has over 300 films over 10 days, with about three screenings per film. She said that she’s interested in going to one of the films that I told her I was going to. The tickets were sold out at this point. I told her that, if she ends up going to the premiere, I would see her in line. I didn't expect anything. I just want to point out that, to go to this film, she had to pay twice the price of regular tickets and buy them at 7:00am the same day. An hour or so after the film, she texts me and asks me what I thought. She was still in the area at this time but I was driving home. We talked about it for a bit but I never asked her to meet up. I told her to let me know if she was going to any other films. Later on she told me she didn't know it was the first screening and she didn't know what normal pricing was, despite there being a week between the time we spoke about the film and the day of the screening. This information is clearly printed all over the festival website. She also didn't go to any other films. It's possible she had some doubts about ending things and she wanted her sister to meet me for a second opinion. She could have been attracted to this display of confidence.

 

A few weeks later, I was traveling to another continent and I noticed that she liked the page of another dating service on social media. I texted her before my plane took off. I said I was away for a few weeks but that I would like to see her when I got back. I got her reply when I landed and she said she would love to hear about my travels. While I was away, I met a European model. Things went well between us and it definitely boosted my self-esteem, but I didn't really care for this girl.

 

I contacted her a week after I got back. I texted her a specific time and place three days in advance for the following week. She hadn’t replied by the night before so I called her and left voicemail. She texted back immediately and apologized profusely and said she’s going away once again and so she’s busy but that we could meet up the following week. I texted her in the middle of the week and she said she’s now busy for the rest of it and that it would have to be the following week. She asked for a specific day that I was available. She accepted the date in early November and I sent her a place and time.

 

She texted me that day and said she would be a little late. I didn’t respond because I was at work. She texted again to ask if we’re still on. I said that we were. She said the place was further than she realized and asked if we could meet elsewhere. Instead I offered to meet her along the way. She said it was fine and that we could just meet there. She got to the location first. We had dinner and it went really well. She complimented my appearance. I was able to demonstrate value, telling her about my travels, my recent investment, my work, and lots of funny stories along the way. I asked her some deep personal questions and she was clearly taken aback in a good way. She said no one asks her questions like that. She said she was free on Sunday so we made tentative plans. I think the conversational split was about 40-60. She said she noticed how much more myself I was this time and it seemed we both enjoyed each other's companies thoroughly. I paid the bill and told her she could get the next one, to which she seemed happy. Afterwards, I told her we should go for a walk since this particular place is in a nice part of town. I joked around with her and touched her. She said that she was cold. We both had jackets on. She didn't want to walk too far. I wanted to hold her hand but her hands were occupied. I tried putting my arm around her but she tensed up and seemed to cut the walk short. At this point I realized that she saw this particular outing as a chance to catch up between friends.

 

I walked her back to her car. I asked if we were on for Sunday. She said she wasn’t sure. I told her that there was a way she could be sure and went in for a kiss on her cheek. She stopped me. I told her that I think we should spend more time together. I said that I wasn’t interested in being friends and that we both know that it would be a lie. She took my hand and told me that she's been dating other guys and is seeing a new guy that weekend. She never mentioned him when we were talking about her weekend over dinner. I told her that I've been dating other people, too, but I still find myself thinking about her. I said we could see each other and other people. She didn’t seem to like that idea. I asked her what happened between us. She said that she was really excited at first and she told her family and friends about me and that there was a reason I was her first online date. She said she was reluctant to reject me but that she had to be honest with herself. She said she just didn’t feel instant attraction. That didn't seem to be the case on our first date and I suspect it's something she justified to herself after her attraction level dropped. I told her that I got some bad advice from my sister, I wasn't being myself, and attraction can grow over time and what we had, compatibility, was much more valuable. She said that she's always had instant attraction in her past relationships and that she had to go with her gut. She said she wants to date around for a while, so I told her I wasn't going to wait for her. I told her that I hope she finds a guy who makes her feel instant attraction. Then she said that sounded dumb. At this point, she gently tried pulling her hand back and said that she had to go. I asked her one last time if she wanted to get together and she said she was probably too busy for the next two months because she's going to another continent for a month. I told her she didn’t sound rational and to have a good night. I walked away. She asked me to keep in touch. Maybe the things I said weren’t always best, but I was confident and genuine in my delivery.

 

Clearly I made some mistakes along the way. I’ve recognized them and I tried to fix them with the third “date.” Now I’m going to enjoy other women but I hope she'll contact me again. We're still connected via social media. We have quite a few things in common.We know she wants a guy just like me, as long as I can light a spark. I want her attraction to me to rise so that, next time, I could be confident, funny, and genuine. I'll pass her tests and I'll engage her. I will not display neediness, I'll take it one step at a time and have her enjoy it. I wish I could have been more lighthearted with what I said, but I didn't know how that would be possible, but at least she'll remember me for a confident and honest act. There were signs along the way that she was quite interested at times. Overall, though, I just seemed like a passive approval seeker. I don't think she'd feel the same way now due to this drastic change in personality. She is seeing other guys but I think I'll stand out when she thinks of me. If I'm having enough fun at that point and she's still single, she might contact me. There is still some hope left, right?

 

Thanks very much for your help!

Edited November 11, 2015 by Vink

[LivingDeadGrl]

I think you should move on. She isn't interested in you as more than a friend and I think you're wasting your time. Find someone that actually wants to see you and spend time with you. This all sounds forced.

[Vink]

You're right, it does sound forced. If I was less persistent from the beginning and allowed her to chase me, I think it would have been great. Now I've learned my lesson and I just need to implement it. I need to rewind and try again. If I make it clear I'm having fun and being successful with other girls, then I'd still have a shot, right?

 

I know it sounds silly to some people since we only went out three times but there is something really special about her. She just has this sweetness about her that's intoxicating. I love her love of the arts, the fact that she spends her life with kids, she's really close to her family, and I want to get to know everything about her. She is beautiful but that's like the least of it. There's this vulnerable emotional core that she lets out in her art and her singing. I want to experience that intensity. I just can't stop thinking about her and I find it really hard to believe I'll meet someone else that I like more.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Vink

[they]

You're not being yourself at all. All this trying to appear high value and highly confident makes it into a game where you're caring more about yourself than her. Would you rather be honest so she can accept / reject you for who you are or follow your plan to make her jealous for a while?

 

And yeah that advice was dumb. People don't forget others easily, we are biologically programmed to remember individuals for our survival - to be able to answer 'are they friend or foe?'

 

Good luk bro. There are other amazing girls you'll find though, im 100% sure.

[Siquijor]

She told you she was looking at dating services again so at that point you should have walked away. Period.

[Vink]

Clearly she's a nice girl so that's why she agreed to go out with me again. It's true that I shouldn't have to try this hard. It should be easy. The thing is, though, I strongly suspect that, like me, she doesn't have much relationship experience. I'm not saying she's afraid of commitment, because if she was, these events would have played out differently. She was obviously nervous the first two times that we went out. Even during the phone call where she told me she was still using that dating service, I flirted with her just seconds before and she started giggling. It was pretty adorable. With our mutual lack of experience for our ages, though, maybe it's best we see other people for now. I still believe she rejected me because she wasn't attracted to me, but if she were more experienced, she would be more open to that attraction developing over time. Her rejection would have just been a warning. If I had played it right from the beginning and worked on being the more confident version of myself, I know it would have worked. I chose to take some bad advice and I might regret it for the rest of my life, unless if there's a solution out there.

 

I feel I was most honest with her at the end when I revealed everything. It started off as a way for her to realize the potential for attraction (rejecting being friends), but then it expanded into my insecurities (what happened?), my secrets (following bad advice), and my feelings (calling her special and unique). I didn't intend to say as much as I did and I realize that much of what I did say is typically considered attraction-killing conversation. At that point, I don't think I could've stopped myself. Going forward, I want to be honest and direct with her. At the same time, though, I can't put myself on the line like I did. I have to stop taking people's advice, believe in myself, and value my time. We had a great dinner that night and that's what I'd like for her to remember most. I doubt other guys she dates would get as invested into her deepest thoughts like I did. Of course, it was only two hours, but if I see her again, I would delve more. She even offered to show me videos of her singing when she's typically embarrassed to show them to her friends. If I'd never had that conversation with her, I'd have probably seen them by now, but I couldn't risk falling into the so-called "friend-zone" permanently. Basically, what I'm saying is, it was a mistake to try to be someone else at first. I should have looked inside and been the best version of myself.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Vink

[smackie9]

You have OCD by any chance?

[Vink]

Haha, well I've never been diagnosed with it. Look, I'm not contacting her. I'm not being creepy or obsessive outwardly, and soon I'll get over this phase and start dating other women. She's dating other people but I somehow doubt she's going to find someone she likes. That doesn't mean I think she likes me the best or that she'll even want to start dating me again, but I think there's a chance she'll contact me at some point in the future. Of course, I want to move on and meet other people. Hopefully one day I can say I just don't care anymore. Objectively, though, I can't imagine someone more fitting, so I have to hold on to some hope that it'll work out at some point.

[they]

Well concluded, sir. One thing though, you forget that maybe it just wasn't possible for her to be attracted to you. Don't take it personally. I noticed when I'm at a new class some girls like to smile and look at me while others don't seem too bothered about me, this all happens before I even say anything to them. Guess which I would have more of a chance with, and makes it easier for me to get to know them.

[Leigh 87]

You need some dignity...

 

If a guy told me that he just wasn't attracted to me, there's NO WAY I would want to win him over with my "amazing personality ":sick:

 

I need my partner to be enamored with me. I need him to find me attractive and feel a spark from the get go.

 

I feel sorry for people who end up with a spouse that wasn't attracted to them and later came around due to....well their personality or...I would always question whether or not the one rejection simply ran out of options and settled with the person they weren't attracted to but who wanted them!

[Vink]

True, I see what you mean. I want her to come back. When she does, I want to be me at my best. She's noticed some changes for the better and that pattern will just continue. I want her to feel an uncontrollable attraction, like I'm a new man. Something like that will take work, and I intend to do it. If I'm going to do it effectively, I'll have to focus on other girls and put my all into improving my dating and attraction skills. If I forget about her because I meet someone better, great. If I don't, I probably won't forget about her, but we'll see where we both are down the line. If this somehow works out, then our relationship will never be the same. She won't resign to someone she didn't feel attracted to, she'll be chosen by a different man who she finds irresistible.

[schiller]

You're not being yourself at all. All this trying to appear high value and highly confident makes it into a game where you're caring more about yourself than her. Would you rather be honest so she can accept / reject you for who you are or follow your plan to make her jealous for a while?

 

Yeah this is what I was thinking too. It's all a big act, a charade, to appear to be something you think she wants you to be rather than what you are.

 

Even if it worked, you couldn't keep it up forever. Even if you could, why would you WANT to?

 

It's true that I shouldn't have to try this hard. It should be easy. The thing is, though, I strongly suspect that, like me, she doesn't have much relationship experience..With our mutual lack of experience for our ages, though, maybe it's best we see other people for now. I still believe she rejected me because she wasn't attracted to me, but if she were more experienced, she would be more open to that attraction developing over time.

 

Ahh.. you have surmised that she isn't attracted to you because she lacks experience, and after she dates a bunch of guys and gains that experience she will suddenly realize that you ARE the man for her but she was too naive to realize it! At which point she will come running back to you and this time it will work because you will be acting just like the man you think she wants you to be.

 

I'm not giving good odds on this one

[Vink]

Not exactly. I think she lacks attraction because I displayed passive approval-seeking behaviour, failed to flirt or touch, and was too serious. These are all things I'm committed to changing. Whether or not she contacts me again, that's the difficult part. If she comes back, she'll know that she can't be friends with me because I made my intentions clear and that I'd have dated a few other people. She'll know that I won't behave like I did before. So why would she come back? I'd like to believe it's because we have a lot in common. She comes across as extremely genuine and I think she really does enjoy my company. She noticed changes the last time we went out. We still have each other on social media and she'll see hints of these changes. She'll know I'm committed to bettering myself and what's more attractive than that? In extension, when I see her, I'll be able to make her feel special, too.

[schiller]

Although I have doubts and concerns regarding the merits and potential efficacy of your plan, I concede that you have absolutely nothing to lose by trying.

 

Just don't sit around waiting for her.

[Vink]

Thanks. What I was hoping to hear is that I made the situation better and that I'm in a better position now for her to contact me. If I left things where they were in August (when she sent the rejection text), I'd understand if someone said I basically have no chance. I've worked hard to salvage this since then, though. I still think there was more to the film festival incident, especially after hearing her explanation. Then, when we went out again, I was able to show her the great guy that I naturally am. Then we spoke and I'm sure it was a little uncomfortable, but she saw me standing up for myself and being honest with her, which at the same time, said that I was fine risking complete rejection. Now I'm satisfied with the amount of information she has to make a decision. She might worry I'll find someone else before she does now. She won't be my top priority, which is what she wants, even if she'll never say it.

 

I want her to be curious about how I really am, since I said I was not myself at the time. She might just want what she can't have. The only time I acted like I had no interest in seeing her, she showed up to the place I was. I don't think it's that unreasonable to think she might do it again, or at least contact me in some way.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Vink