when your husband won't apologize?

[fellini]

My two sense worth.

 

Your husband has a legitimate issue with your yelling at him over his choice of work. It doesn't matter WHAT you feel about how he should have face his work. When someone does not want to do what they do for money, they shouldn't have to continue doing it. Period. Especially if they have known better work.

 

But none of that explains the affair.

 

Ask yourself if its possible that in getting this new job, he met someone who attracted him. Ask yourself if you really think your not apologizing or dealing with the job issue was sufficient for him to give himself permission to have an affair.

 

I suspect it has nothing to do with it. An attractive woman presented herself to him and he took it. Men don't usually need an excuse to have an affair, because in the end, the only person they answer to is themselves. He did it because he wanted to. Later, when pushed for an excuse, he gave you one.

 

Seems he treated the discovery in the same way he treats your marriage: Lets just see how long we can do this, and then make a decision.

 

By all means work on your marriage. It obviously wasn't a GREAT marriage to begin with, and even then went a little downhill. So you have nowhere to go but up, or get back to a mediocre uncommitted relationship - and since you two seemed okay with that up to this point, it shouldn't be that hard.

 

But I would use the affair as an excuse to either get a better marriage, or leave to find one. I wouldn't settle with just getting through this.

[HurtOfGlass]

By all means work on your marriage. It obviously wasn't a GREAT marriage to begin with, and even then went a little downhill. So you have nowhere to go but up, or get back to a mediocre uncommitted relationship - and since you two seemed okay with that up to this point, it shouldn't be that hard.

 

I have not seen anything where OP has said her marriage wasn't great. The issues started with the job loss. Infact according to the OP, her husband said that courtship was his life's perfect period.

 

So you had a great marriage and your wife still treated another man in the bed for 18 months? And now your marriage is even better because of it?

[fellini]

Just because you didn not see it, does not mean it isn't there. Everything she wrote in her second post tells us that this marriage has not been GREAT for the past years. I don't know what your yardstick for a good marriage is, but I consider a woman who becomes enraged at her husband, and a man who cannot communicate with his wife about basic issues regardless of his affair, NOT to be an ideal marriage.

 

Where do you get off talking about my marriage - inaccurately by the way - because of my opinions to OP. Im responding to OP's questions, I have not discussed my marriage and I don't see what my life has to do with my suggestions to OP.

 

 

 

 

I have not seen anything where OP has said her marriage wasn't great. The issues started with the job loss. Infact according to the OP, her husband said that courtship was his life's perfect period.

 

So you had a great marriage and your wife still treated another man in the bed for 18 months? And now your marriage is even better because of it?

[ladydesigner]

Lady,

 

While I can agree that there may be "some" symptoms of NPD and Passive Aggressive, we need to understand what causes this and how you can stop it (and cure it). Do some research on it. It's not something that can't be cured.

 

One can see clearly why this kind of behavior would show up in the history of this relationship. What Aliceislost needs to do is to help resolve this issue, and yes, it can be done. Professional help is sure a good choice, but one can certainly make a lot of headway on their own.

 

I know you are right! That is the scariest part

 

I was just citing some samples of that kind of behavior. I never even knew what it was until after I did start to do some research on it.

[sandylee1]

Alice

 

If his actions show he is sorry...then don't focus on the words. Many many people apologise...but they don't mean it. I'd rather see the change than hear an apology which means fu** all. Some people really find it hard to say those 3 words 'I am sorry'

 

My husband didn't have an A .....but we had some is issues. I apologised for how behaved and he did too...but not in the same way I did.........But his change of behaviour afterward... showed me that he was sorry.............that what really matters.

[whichwayisup]

Yes, he has suffered some personal and professional setbacks during this time. And I have not been the most supportive spouse. But I never cheated on him. And it didn't even come to my mind that he will cheat.

 

Why would you be supportive and by his side during HIS rough times at work when he created the situation to begin with? You loved and trusted him, he betrayed you in the worst possible way. Kind of odd seeing as you say he has abandonment issues..

But I don't want to break up my marriage. I love him with all my being. I want to work on us. But if he refuses to apologize how can I even proceed into reconciliation? Is there any way I can make my husband see that him apologizing is step forward for us and I am not going to leave him?

 

You can't. He has to fight for a second chance with you. If he loves you enough and wants to stay married then he will apologize, own what he did, do counseling on his own and fix himself and do counseling with you. It would be a total waste of your time to hang onto to him if he is unwilling to lift a finger.

Don't tell me to just divorce him because that is exactly what my husband is expecting me to do. It will only strengthen his sense of abandonment.

He is a GROWN MAN, not a child. He put himself in a situation (the affair) that could make you leave him and abandon him because he cheated. The thing is, HE abandoned YOU, not the other way around. Just because he has issues doesn't give him the right to do whatever he pleases.

 

This is your life, if you want to stay married, then stay married. Just for your own sanity, talk to a therapist to help guide you and maybe shed some light as to why you'd want to stay with a man who doesn't seem to respect you, honour his vows to you, isn't wanting to apologize for betraying and hurting you in the worst possible way.

[sandylee1]

My two sense worth.

 

Your husband has a legitimate issue with your yelling at him over his choice of work. It doesn't matter WHAT you feel about how he should have face his work. When someone does not want to do what they do for money, they shouldn't have to continue doing it. Period.

 

Ask yourself if its possible that in getting this new job, he met someone who attracted him. Ask yourself if you really think your not apologizing or dealing with the job issue was sufficient for him to give himself permission to have an affair.

 

By all means work on your marriage. It obviously wasn't a GREAT marriage to begin with, and even then went a little downhill. So you have nowhere to go but up, or get back to a mediocre uncommitted relationship - and since you two seemed okay with that up to this point, it shouldn't be that hard.

 

But I would use the affair as an excuse to either get a better marriage, or leave to find one. I wouldn't settle with just getting through this.

 

 

Sometimes you have to be responsible and not just quit a job when you have bills to pay. It's not about doing what you don't like and expecting your spouse to have the whole financial burden. That's wrong...and he needs to acknowledge it. Whether you've known better jobs or not is irrelevant.....expecting your spouse to carry the can and be under financial stress was selfish and inconsiderate. Especially without prior discussion.

 

You are speculating about the state of the marriage pre affair. Alice said the problems began after quitting his job and there's no reason to assume otherwise.

[fellini]

You are speculating about the state of the marriage pre affair. Alice said the problems began after quitting his job and there's no reason to assume otherwise.

 

If anyone is speculating it is you.

 

First of all, you base the OP's husbands's entire work story from a woman who admitted to go into a rage and give him nothing but a hard time. This is not how we support someone who is so unhappy in his job that he has to quit. You do not have any evidence to support the claim that this was his idea of living off his wife's income. None whatsoever.

 

The first time he "lost" his job he found another 4 months later. I'd say that's pretty good depending in which market you are. A teacher, for example, might lose her job in October and have to wait until the following academic year to get a suitable replacement.

 

So instead of speculating let's recount precisely what OP has had to say on the whole issue of her husband (and taking into account she is telling us his perspective):

 

A little background - my husband

lost his job around 3 years ago

. He found a new job 4 months later

 

He thinks that

I only chose to marry him

because during our courtship was the only phase in his life where he was "perfect".

 

Yes, he has suffered some

personal and professional setbacks

during this time.

And I have not been the most supportive spouse.

 

Don't

tell me

to just divorce him because

that is exactly what my husband is expecting

me to do. It will

only strengthen his

sense of abandonment.

 

Soon it

became tough for him to continue there

. I was constantly

asking him

to mend things.

 

This filled me with

rage.

I was

constantly shouting at him for days

.

 

I was lashing out at him regarding anything. I was rejecting him. I was not talking to him when he tried. I was horrible to him at this period.

 

(

SIL

suicidal) In fact soon

I started to resent this arrangement

. I thought of

my

SIL

as

another

burden on me

. Though I did not let my mind out loud, but some of my actions clearly reflected what I thought.

I will be forever ashamed of myself for this.

 

 

This marriage clearly had problems as of the passing of the "courtship" phase, as indicated by the OP.

 

In fact, the only deduction that can be made is that as long as the husband was earning a good salary, and going to work like a good husband, she was happy, tolerated, and even allowered herself to enjoy him.

 

God forbid if he had had a workplace accident and found himself in LTD or out of work for "4 months". You should listen to OP sometimes, not just WHAT OP PROJECTS ABOUT HER WH.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Ladydesigner, I guess you have taken just one sentence out of my post and simplified everything by saying that everyone is responsible for their actions. Are you sure that you can hold everyone responsible for something they may have done irrespective of the state of their minds? People suffer from all kinds of mental trauma and sometimes the degree of their of suffering is such that they do irrational things.I am not condoning anything that Alice's husband may have done but the fact that she has very clearly stated that she does not want to divorce him indicates that despite his actions she believes in an underlying bond between them which she feels will help them repair the damaged state of their marriage. She is in the driver's seat in this matter and maybe the rest of us here should refrain from doing strident backseat driving on her behalf. I think it is better to offer her a range of viewpoints so that she can make an informed decision about how to proceed further, pro actively, to save her marriage if she can possibly do so. I think she is well aware of the fact that her husband has hit at the foundations of their marriage and she is now seeking advice on ways and means to be able to retrieve the situation and see if there is anything left to salvage. She has been hurt grievously by her husband's breach of trust and yet she has decided to work on the marriage to try and save it. She would not do so if she was convinced her husband was a blackguard who did not deserve a second chance.

I think it is our responsibility as members of this forum to try and help people who come here with as positive advice as may be possible rather than bring out the negativity residing in us because of our own painful experiences which may not bear scrutiny when applied to a case such as the present one. Alice please do read my previous post and see if you think you would like to help your husband heal enough so that he eventually does offer up the apology that you need to be able to move forward with reconciliation. Cheers!

Edited November 14, 2015 by Just a Guy

[66Charger]

Alice, you wrote that you treated him badly for the last 2 years or so and that you want assistance in making him see that he should apologize.

 

Did you?

 

This really sounds like a exit affair. For all the posters teling you "off with his head, the decision to divorce may not be yours. When confronted, he looked you in the eye and said, yes I did it, I am not going to apologize and you can divorce me if you want.

 

Not good. Thats not NPD, entitlement, cheaterthink or anything else. Thats resentment. The 2 of you are pointing fingers and saying apologize first.

 

Your outrage is justified.

 

So is his.

 

Better get off the forum and into counseling. ..quick.

[Mr. Lucky]

when your husband won't apologize?

 

Then he's neither sorry he did it nor willing to say he won't do it again.

 

Plan accordingly...

 

Mr. Lucky

[sandylee1]

Quitting a job when you are married impacts your spouse....and as such you have to discuss it. This was a contributory factor in my brother's divorce. My ex SIL came home one day and said she'd quit.

 

Alice - you've acknowledged that you raged on him, which was not the right thing to do. From your second post, the stress of having to support the whole household affected you badly.

 

I don't see any mention of your marriage being in a bad way prior to all this...so I'm not jumping to any such conclusions. The loss of a job...especially for men can be very tough to handle.

 

If he no longer wanted to be married to you...he should have said so....rather than having an affair...but he obviously could not afford to leave you.....as he wasn't earning.

 

If he doesn't apologise in words ....it should be evident in his actions...if it isn't...then you're wasting your time. Otherwise he just seems entiltled.

 

He found no evidence of you having an affair, which would have made him feel better.......but he decided to carry on anyway. At a certain point..you have to decide how much you can take.

 

If you reconcile..with no apology or no remorse...it won't work. If you bring up the affair......he'll just say..I said you could divorce me. You need to know whether deep down..he really loves you and wants this marriage to work. He may be done...he may feel you tossed him aside when he wasn't working...he felt disrespected.....being rejected probably damaged his ego...and the male ego is very fragile indeed. Men generally dont do well as the lower earners and your situation was a lot worse. If he can't get passed that..then you're wasting your time.

 

He should accept he did wrong....but from what you say. ..there's no regret from him at all. You did wrong..but he betrayed you and likely risked your sexual health..... look after yourself.

 

You have no children to consider...so it's really just about the two of you.

 

Will you be having marriage counselling?

[turnera]

Don't tell me to just divorce him because that is exactly what my husband is expecting me to do. It will only strengthen his sense of abandonment.

So?

 

This isn't about whether he gets to walk away justified.

 

It's about whether YOU end up in a marriage where you're just an attachment on his arm or whether you found a partner who respects you, loves you, and puts you first.

[CarrieT]

The woman called him yesterday. My husband told her I found out in front of me. They have to end it. He wants to work on his marriage. He was sorry for hurting her with his actions.

So he could say that he was sorry to HER but not to YOU?!?!

 

Again, it doesn't sound much like you have a marriage worth saving...

[turnera]

The woman called him yesterday. My husband told her I found out in front of me. They have to end it. He wants to work on his marriage. He was sorry for hurting her with his actions.

 

Right. So he can apologize to HER, but not to YOU.

[fellini]

Alice - you've acknowledged that you raged on him, which was not the right thing to do. From your second post, the stress of having to support the whole household affected you badly.[/Quote]

 

So maybe her husband should have said to his AP, "having an affair was not the right thing to do" and then they could can call it even.

 

You are so bent on only seeing one side of this marriage that you fail to realise that your looking for an excuse to EXPLAIN her going into a rage and dedicating days yelling at her husband. This is what a lot of WS would love to hear: "I'm not entirely responsible for my behaviours"

 

I don't see any mention of your marriage being in a bad way prior to all this...so I'm not jumping to any such conclusions. The loss of a job...especially for men can be very tough to handle. [/Quote]

 

There is no prior to or after. What matters is how each person in a marriage handles a crisis. Neither of them handle it well. Him quitting - her raging. Resentment from a suicidal SIL and him embarking on an affair. Their marriage was only ever as good as long as things were running smoothly. This is what you fail to see. They were only happy in the courting stage.

 

 

If he no longer wanted to be married to you...he should have said so....rather than having an affair...but he obviously could not afford to leave you.....as he wasn't earning.

Speculation. He probably could care less what she thought. In her own words she says more or less the same. So you agree, then, that their marriage was not very good? Or just his part in it?

 

He should accept he did wrong....but from what you say. ..there's no regret from him at all. You did wrong..but he betrayed you and likely risked your sexual health..... look after yourself.

 

What OP has said is that he did accept what he did was wrong, but he justified it by how she didn't support him - whether you thik he is correct or not is moot - he felt betrayed by her lack of support. He raised his concerns with her about the job, she constantly told him to FIX IT. His NOT TELLING her was a direct result from her lack of support. EMOTIONAL not FINANCIAL. OP has made this clear. He did not just UP and quit his job. She was asking him to go to work everyday in an environment in which he was completely unhappy. And when he said IM DONE, she called him careless.

 

But he didn't stop trying to work: OP tells us that he did freelance work as much as possible and then finally got himself a job around the time of SIL living with them.

 

At best they are two people with very different views on what is quality of life and what one must do to achieve it. At worst their marriage is a mismatch becase neither of them wants to accept the validity of the others' perspective. There is no evidence their marriage "went bad" because of the affair, there is nothing but evidence that both of them have poor communication skills and suffer from some form of resistence to listen to their life partner in respectable ways and as a married couple should.

 

None of this business about his work has anything to do with excusing him from having an affair.

His recent affair has nothing to do with her being justified in raging and screaming at him and treating her SIL as a burden, and she has accepted that. TWO YEARS she tells us he feels she has been treating him NOT as an EQUAL!

Edited November 16, 2015 by fellini

[ladydesigner]

Hi Ladydesigner, I guess you have taken just one sentence out of my post and simplified everything by saying that everyone is responsible for their actions. Are you sure that you can hold everyone responsible for something they may have done irrespective of the state of their minds? People suffer from all kinds of mental trauma and sometimes the degree of their of suffering is such that they do irrational things.I am not condoning anything that Alice's husband may have done but the fact that she has very clearly stated that she does not want to divorce him indicates that despite his actions she believes in an underlying bond between them which she feels will help them repair the damaged state of their marriage. She is in the driver's seat in this matter and maybe the rest of us here should refrain from doing strident backseat driving on her behalf. I think it is better to offer her a range of viewpoints so that she can make an informed decision about how to proceed further, pro actively, to save her marriage if she can possibly do so. I think she is well aware of the fact that her husband has hit at the foundations of their marriage and she is now seeking advice on ways and means to be able to retrieve the situation and see if there is anything left to salvage. She has been hurt grievously by her husband's breach of trust and yet she has decided to work on the marriage to try and save it. She would not do so if she was convinced her husband was a blackguard who did not deserve a second chance.

I think it is our responsibility as members of this forum to try and help people who come here with as positive advice as may be possible rather than bring out the negativity residing in us because of our own painful experiences which may not bear scrutiny when applied to a case such as the present one. Alice please do read my previous post and see if you think you would like to help your husband heal enough so that he eventually does offer up the apology that you need to be able to move forward with reconciliation. Cheers!

 

Well just saying! I was held responsible for how I acted as a BS to my WH's A and let's just say I was not let off the hook for my own behavior.

[GunslingerRoland]

It sounds like he's trying to turn it around on you, it's your fault for expecting him to be perfect. Like it takes perfection for him to not stick his dick into his coworkers for months on end.

 

 

Don't let him do it. Let him know that you don't want to divorce but you can't stay if he doesn't take responsibility for what he did.

[cocorico]

I don't read it as PA. I read it as him putting his cards on the table,many stating what he is and isn't prepared to do, and leaving it to Alice to decide in the light of that what she's prepared to do.

 

Frankly, in his position, I'd consider Alice's apology too little, too late. I think she broke the M back then, and his "infidelity" merely shows that he considered the M broken, too. Whether it's possible to create a new M out of the debris remains to be seen, but the M as it was has been over for a long time.

[ladydesigner]

I don't read it as PA. I read it as him putting his cards on the table,many stating what he is and isn't prepared to do, and leaving it to Alice to decide in the light of that what she's prepared to do.

 

Frankly, in his position, I'd consider Alice's apology too little, too late. I think she broke the M back then, and his "infidelity" merely shows that he considered the M broken, too. Whether it's possible to create a new M out of the debris remains to be seen, but the M as it was has been over for a long time.

 

His cards on the table?

 

There are 2 in a M and we do not know how her WH conducted himself in the M prior to the A. It seems everyone always assumes the BS is the one who is making the M miserable. An A is definitely not the answer to that!

 

If my WH came on here he would say the same "my wife this, my wife that" but no one knows that I supported my WH most the M, I have practically raised our children on my own, etc. But then I get blamed because I somehow grew resentful of my WH's lack of work put into the M? That my WH's A was caused by my having resentments. My WH had his A because he resented me. I'm sorry it just doesn't add up or make sense to me.

[Aliceislost]

Now a recent update:

 

I knew immediately I did not want to loose him. And I said it to him. But I also made it clear that I won't be his back up plan. So if he wants to leave, he should do that now. I don't want to come back in 3 months' time and rediscover the affair was never over. If he still has resentment, he needs to lay that down now. So that I could let him go if thats what he wants. Thats when he broke down and said it was me he loved all along but didn't know if I loved him too. He wanted me to understand but he was afraid to even approach me with anything. We both broke down. And he finally apologized for what he had done.

 

Husband is still working at that old place. After so much that happened, losing that job was not an option. We are not very rich and we have bills and mortgages to pay.

 

But there has been some changes. Husband and I decided to take lunches together. He needed to come home on time. His electronic stuff should all be available to me. Same for me. Even a reconciled relationship is a two way street.

 

And he has kept all my requests for openness and transparency. And he has apologized alot. I have too for the awful way I treated him.

 

We have been to MC and IC intensively. I found out many things about myself I didn't know I had due to my FOO issues. He found out too many things about himself in IC. We shared everything and discussed with each other. In MC, we learnt that our communication was horrible. We have read books recommended. Especially Five languages of love helped us tremendously.

 

I truly think we are well into our journey of recovery. But there is still a long way to go because our progress will only be tested when (and I hope it never comes) there comes another time of adversity and it remains to be seen that whether all the work we are doing now is able to stand against that. But I really believe it will.

 

P.S - My husband was not the monster people made him out to be here.

[jnel921]

Aliceislost,

 

When a WS cant or refuses to apologize then they obviously don't care. There is no remorse, no hard feelings...no nothing.

 

Why would you want to stay with someone like that? His abandonment issues theory is ridiculous. What do you think he is doing to your M while he is screwing around?

 

Start loving yourself and doing right by you. Let him go. He wont, not as long as he knows you will put up with his infidelity.

 

Good Luck

[Mrs. John Adams]

Remember that apologizing ...is very different from remorse...and that he needs to know and understand what he truly needs to be apologizing for.

 

Sometimes, it takes us a while to understand what we are sorry for...i was sorry for committing adultery for many years...and i thought that was enough.

I learned after many years....that my remorse had to be for the pain i caused.

 

Sometimes as waywards...we are expected to know what our betrayed spouses are looking for.....and while we do everything we can think of to bring them healing....it would sometimes be nice if they could verbalize exactly it is what they need or want. They too have trouble putting into words exactly what they are looking for. So we find ourselves yearning and wanting healing...and yet we don't know exactly what to say or do.

 

I said I am sorry so many times...and i meant it...but sorry was not enough...it did not bring healing or comfort or trust....and it did not build a foundation for forgiveness.

 

i understand where you are coming from...and i hope you get what you are looking for. My very best wishes for you.

[11012015]

 

Let's recount precisely what OP has had to say on the whole issue of her husband (and taking into account she is telling us his perspective):

 

A little background - my husband

lost his job around 3 years ago

. He found a new job 4 months later

 

He thinks that

I only chose to marry him

because during our courtship was the only phase in his life where he was "perfect".

 

Yes, he has suffered some

personal and professional setbacks

during this time.

And I have not been the most supportive spouse.

 

Don't

tell me

to just divorce him because

that is exactly what my husband is expecting

me to do. It will

only strengthen his

sense of abandonment.

 

Soon it

became tough for him to continue there

. I was constantly

asking him

to mend things.

 

This filled me with

rage.

I was

constantly shouting at him for days

.

 

I was lashing out at him regarding anything. I was rejecting him. I was not talking to him when he tried. I was horrible to him at this period.

 

(

SIL

suicidal) In fact soon

I started to resent this arrangement

. I thought of

my

SIL

as

another

burden on me

. Though I did not let my mind out loud, but some of my actions clearly reflected what I thought.

I will be forever ashamed of myself for this.

 

 

This marriage clearly had problems as of the passing of the "courtship" phase, as indicated by the OP.

 

In fact, the only deduction that can be made is that as long as the husband was earning a good salary, and going to work like a good husband, she was happy, tolerated, and even allowered herself to enjoy him.

 

God forbid if he had had a workplace accident and found himself in LTD or out of work for "4 months". You should listen to OP sometimes, not just WHAT OP PROJECTS ABOUT HER WH.

 

Cheating is inexcusable. Let's get out of the way. But ... Wow. Just wow. This woman completely abuses her husband, when he needs his wife the most, and clearly demonstrates how she was only a good-time wife. [And it is not like she is a young immature kid; she is in her mid-30s.] She doesn't even apologize for her years of abuse (which many of the posters here would have gone crazy if the genders were reversed) and somehow thinks the sticking point issue to save the marriage is her husband's apology? Cheating issue aside, why would the husband even want to stay in this marriage, when he now knows if something bad happens to him down the line his 'wife' will turn into an absolute b***? You show your true character when things are tough and this lady clearly showed she is not a wife material. In fact, I'd go as far as speculating that the only reason she wants to stay with a cheating husband is to relieve the guilt she is feeling (not because 'she loves him' - that is not how you act if you love someone) -- otherwise the failed marriage will be a reminder of what kind of a f*cked up person she is (not a reminder of cheating). The real issue here isn't cheating or the apology, the real issue is her personality and whether she is going to act that way again (with this husband or the next). I mean let's say she had a point with her husband quitting (which I disagree, but ...) what is the excuse for feeling resentment for the poor SIL who lost a child? What kind of a heartless monster do you have to be to feel that way and then go as far as 'showing actions clearly reflected the resentment.' My God. No wonder the husband doesn't apologize. Because he doesn't feel sorry.

[66Charger]

There is no need for bullets when the battle is over.

 

Its time for walks and talks.

 

Congrats and have a "rejuvenating" 2016