Dating Progression--"taking it slow" suggests non-interest?

[Zapbasket]

I've been reading and responding to various threads about dating and something has stood out to me: it seems that if you aren't ready/willing to kiss after a couple of dates, or if you don't reply immediately to texts, or if you mix one-on-one dates with dates that include others in your [perhaps shared to some extent] social circle, you risk seeming not interested, or that you've "friend-zoned" the person. Does this ring true to you?

 

I'm starting to get back into the dating scene just a bit after a gut-wrenching breakup (that happened two years ago). I feel like I've done the work of really processing the breakup and while I'm still working with a therapist on some issues that the breakup highlighted for me, I think I've been healing quite well and making some important changes in my life and attitude. But, because I got my heart ripped out so badly, I feel very cautious. I want to meet someone but I am much more alert to character and finding the right fit. Anything less is a waste of my time; frankly there are other things I'd rather do than go on dates but, like I said, I want to be sure I'm open to meeting the *right* person, be it now or a few more years from now.

 

So I'm much more interested in really taking time to get to know a person, and I find it jarring that there seems to be an expectation that you should want to kiss after a couple of dates, or that you meet someone and suddenly you're texting every day, etc. I'm really using this time to focus on myself and I don't feel like bantering around via text really helps me get to know a person, but I feel like maybe there's a pressure when you go on dates that things should progress at a certain speed otherwise you're "leading the person on" or something. Two dates I went on the guys leaned in for a kiss on the second date and I could tell in one case he wanted it to be a full-on tongue kiss, but all I gave either of them was a very neutral peck on the cheek. True, I wasn't interested in either one of them, but I felt I'd be more interested if they seemed as focused on really getting to know a bit about me as I am in getting to know them.

 

So how do I navigate this sense that things have to progress at a certain rate in dates? I know I want to take things slow and I don't want to get mixed up in a bunch of hormones; I love kissing as much as the next person but it can skew my judgment and I'm trying to proceed very, very cautiously, using new things I learned from this most recent breakup to choose a better guy to be with--someone with the kind of character, intellect, confidence, and values that will truly be compatible with mine.

[ravfour4]

Those concerns only come into play if the other person's intentions are unclear.

 

If you make it obvious that you're interested by either saying it explicitly, showing it with your actions or planning next dates and showing you're excited - those little things don't concern people as much. If your feelings are unclear, then those actions can hint at disinterest.

[SwordofFlame]

My guess would be verbal communication. It might make for an awkward conversation. But what usually happens is that people analyze actions or non action and draw what may be incorrect conclusions.

[lilmissjava]

There are no guidelines, only you and your date will know how to progress.

 

We all have the ability to read and misread signals but for the most part, I am sure you know what to do and when.

 

If communication is clear and concise with each other, you shouldn't have to worry about things becoming vague to the point of wondering what comes next.

[Zapbasket]

Thing is, I'm what they call an "introverted-extrovert." Meaning, I'm GREAT at carrying on conversation, asking a person questions to draw them out, etc., and I truly enjoy it, almost no matter who I'm talking with. I know how to make people feel comfortable and I enjoy making people feel good about themselves by showing a genuine interest in their pursuits, or opinions, or whatever is on the conversational table. It's an automatic thing for me and I've been like this all my life: at a summer camp I went to in my teens, a girl wrote me a note that said, "I really hope you'll come back next summer because you always make everyone feel so good."

 

This attribute has an unfortunate flip-side, however, in that I sometimes inadvertently give the wrong idea to guys who are interested in me, but in whom I have no romantic interest; I simply enjoy carrying on conversation with them. I may like certain things about them, or like them on a more superficial basis (for instance, the many male coworkers I have and I'm in a job where my role IS to be solicitous and approachable), but I may not even want to go on a date with them. So, I get a lot of requests for dates from guys I'd never want to spend an evening with. I know we have nothing in common, because I bent to meet them at their level, and they assumed we were on the same page and didn't have to bend to meet me at my level, if that makes sense.

 

The introverted bit is that while I'm good at all the conversational stuff, I'm actually quite shy with my deeper feelings. It takes me a long time to feel a genuine emotional connection with someone. I don't show my vulnerabilities early on and I need a bit of time before I really feel that someone is connecting with ME with the same ease with which I can manage to connect with THEM (because I'm good at connecting with a range of people).

 

I just don't know how to navigate this in dating; should I be more stand-offish? And make them work more to meet me at my level?

[Zapbasket]

My guess would be verbal communication. It might make for an awkward conversation. But what usually happens is that people analyze actions or non action and draw what may be incorrect conclusions.

 

Last winter, I outright told one guy on our second date that I wanted to take things slow, and the next week he wanted to introduce me to his whole family who had come into town for a visit! I scratched my head over that one because I felt I couldn't have made myself any more clear, and I couldn't see how meeting his entire family fit in with what I communicated I had in mind. I had to pull away and stop dating him because it seemed we just couldn't get on the same page. (And no, I didn't meet his family.)

[Odinani]

Great post Greencove :-)

 

There are men out there who will take things at a reasonable pace and focus on getting to know you and not just on plunging their lizard like tongue down your throat and getting their privates out. However these men are somewhat in the minority. It's kind of a matter of going on lots of dates until you find a man you click with who has the same sensible, refined approach to dating that you yourself seem to have.

 

I wish you all the best.

[Zapbasket]

I think I've figured out what might be the reason why people seem so eager to rush to the next step early on in dating: they desperately want to be desired. "Does she like me?" "Does he like me?" "Is she attracted to me romantically or does she only see me as a friend?" And then: "Omg, it's been two hours and he hasn't responded to my text and we just met yesterday! Is he not interested?" "We're on the second date and she hasn't given any indication that she wants me to kiss her. Is she not attracted to me?"

 

It's as if people meet someone and their egos go out of control, and channel everything through the filter of, "Does s/he like me?"

 

It's really off-putting to me at this point. I'm not dating to assuage my ego, and I have no interest in assuaging another person's ego. I want to find a compatible match. That said, I know in the past I've been guilty of the whole, "Omg, does he like me?" after-date-one thing.

 

Ordinani, I guess you're right: there are only going to be one or two guys out there who will have enough self-confidence and interest in me to be patient. The others will read my insistence on going slowly as disinterest, and they'll soon hit the road.

[MJJean]

I think physical chemistry and sexual compatibility are extremely important in a relationship.

 

So, if a man who has taken me on a couple of dates isn't at very least kissing me by date number 2-3, I'd assume either he isn't attracted to me or that he has a low sex drive.

 

Since I don't want to date a man who isn't physically into me and I don't want to date a man with a low sex drive, not making moves a date or two in is reason enough for me to cease dating that guy.

[Zapbasket]

I think physical chemistry and sexual compatibility are extremely important in a relationship.

 

So, if a man who has taken me on a couple of dates isn't at very least kissing me by date number 2-3, I'd assume either he isn't attracted to me or that he has a low sex drive.

 

Since I don't want to date a man who isn't physically into me and I don't want to date a man with a low sex drive, not making moves a date or two in is reason enough for me to cease dating that guy.

 

But...do you think that logic is really sound? I imagine it's true in broad strokes, and so probably ok as an early-dating weed-out, generally, but...I have a very high sex drive and I'm saying I don't want to kiss anyone after only a couple of dates. I am sure there are men who are the same. Especially as we get older (I'm 39), and have been burned in the past.

[katiegrl]

But...do you think that logic is really sound? I imagine it's true in broad strokes, and so probably ok as an early-dating weed-out, generally, but...I have a very high sex drive and I'm saying I don't want to kiss anyone after only a couple of dates. I am sure there are men who are the same. Especially as we get older (I'm 39), and have been burned in the past.

 

Fair enough, but dating (and ultimately connecting) with another person isn't only about YOU.

 

There is another person involved, with his/her own separate feelings and perceptions.

 

And as such it's important be cognizant of how they are interpreting and perceiving your actions (or non-actions).

 

And if you haven't initiated and/or responded to any physical affection (a kiss) within the first few dates ... they going to perceive that as meaning you are not attracted to them or interested in them romantically.

 

It's not ego ...it's social conditioning, and no matter how much you may disagree with social conditioning, if you want to be successful in dating, you should try to accept it and adapt to it.... otherwise you run the risk of confusing the other person and perhaps even turning them off.

 

Which would be a shame especially if you really do like them and are attracted to them!

 

JMO ...

Edited November 9, 2015 by katiegrl

[seekingluck]

I find the timing for your post so interesting as this is what i spent half of the weekend discussing with a friend.

 

I went on a date that was never explicitly called one but definitely was one. I have been flirting with this guy for weeks. We seem to have some physical chemistry. Emotional chemistry is off the charts.

 

I thought for sure he would try to kiss me. But nope. I think he was recently burned. Other body language signs were great. We hugged. He stayed close to me. Wasn't scared off if I leaned in. It just didn't progress too far. He kissed me on the cheek to say goodbye (with a few hugs).

 

I tried to see if something more might happen when i saw him again but it stopped at a long hug. Now I am a little confused. Friends or more.

 

I used to be way more slow about these things, as was my friend. But it feels like we are giving into the peer pressure.

 

She recounted my date to a guy she is seeing and he thought my date was let's just say something less than masculine. But when we were talking, one of the anecdotes he shared would give me reason to believe he takes it slow. And I am ok with that as long as it doesn't feel confusing. I have met so many more fast-paced me I just don't know how to read things anymore.

 

What happened to courting? **

 

** the date we went on was a perfect date that made me feel like I was being courted - not like he was trying to have sex asap. Which feels like the start to something way way nicer.

[SwordofFlame]

I think I've figured out what might be the reason why people seem so eager to rush to the next step early on in dating: they desperately want to be desired. "Does she like me?" "Does he like me?" "Is she attracted to me romantically or does she only see me as a friend?" And then: "Omg, it's been two hours and he hasn't responded to my text and we just met yesterday! Is he not interested?" "We're on the second date and she hasn't given any indication that she wants me to kiss her. Is she not attracted to me?"

 

It's as if people meet someone and their egos go out of control, and channel everything through the filter of, "Does s/he like me?"

 

It's really off-putting to me at this point. I'm not dating to assuage my ego, and I have no interest in assuaging another person's ego. I want to find a compatible match. That said, I know in the past I've been guilty of the whole, "Omg, does he like me?" after-date-one thing.

 

Ordinani, I guess you're right: there are only going to be one or two guys out there who will have enough self-confidence and interest in me to be patient. The others will read my insistence on going slowly as disinterest, and they'll soon hit the road.

It's not ego. I just need some way to assess that my date is interested in me as more than just friends. Physical intimacy is one way to do that. There are other ways to convey interest, for example if she's planning dates relatively early on as well and regularly initiating contact in between dates. It's just that I've never dated any woman that's done things like that so far. I'm not looking to be just friends or waste my time on someone who only wants just that.

[Zapbasket]

It's not ego. I just need some way to assess that my date is interested in me as more than just friends. Physical intimacy is one way to do that. There are other ways to convey interest, for example if she's planning dates relatively early on as well and regularly initiating contact in between dates. It's just that I've never dated any woman that's done things like that so far. I'm not looking to be just friends or waste my time on someone who only wants just that.

 

But what about if you really find the person interesting and someone you'd like to have in your life? Would you be willing to pursue a friendship if that is what seems to be on the table, and to be happy with however that progresses, even if it doesn't progress to a romance?

 

I don't want to have to do anything physically with anyone early on just to prove my interest. If I'm interested, it's because I'm primarily interested in our intellectual / spiritual / humor connection, and I wouldn't be around that if I didn't also find the person physically attractive. Once we've made those connections, only THEN am I willing at this point to do anything physical.

 

I feel like the person should have a sense that there obviously is a degree of mutual interest, and we should be able to articulate that to each other before touching lips.

 

No?

[Gloria25]

But...do you think that logic is really sound? I imagine it's true in broad strokes, and so probably ok as an early-dating weed-out, generally, but...I have a very high sex drive and I'm saying I don't want to kiss anyone after only a couple of dates. I am sure there are men who are the same. Especially as we get older (I'm 39), and have been burned in the past.

 

I agree with a lot of your points...like taking you to meet the family too soon and without knowing if you're "the one", but people are so casual now a days...they'll bring just "anyone to meet their family. Now if it's like a casual bbq, ok, I'm game, but a sit down meal with the folks and we aren't planning to get married is improper to me.

 

Also, about the texting all/every day....that's a bit much. I "do" have a life and what can you chat about soooo much?

 

I don't agree with you on the kissing. Kissing, touching, hugguing doesn't imply we're having sex. You don't have to engage in heavy, deep kissing and petting. But yeah I need kissing and touching to gauge if there's romantic interest and to get an idea of how it's gonna be the day we actually get naked.

[RedRobin]

When I first started dating after my fiancée died, I went through a lot of the things you talk about. I work around all men, so it is very easy for me to establish rapport with men... And like you said, they have no indication of how far out of my way I am going to establish that rapport in the early stages... They either think we have a deeper connection than we do, or they are just rushing things.

 

I try to give the benefit of the doubt, but I learned over time that guys who need to try and kiss me on the first date or two... Well, I could TRY to have a conversation with those guys and explain my pace... But the truth of the matter is, their idea of 'slow' means you are effing on date six instead of date three. After awhile, I got rather sick of explaining and having my wishes ignored. So I just eliminate those guys from my dating pool. They have a different agenda and different dating style. Don't worry about why. Don't waste your time explaining. Just move on from those guys.

 

... And about the sex drive thing. All of the men I have been in relationships with all had a healthy sex drive... They all knew how to establish real intimacy too. This thing that only people who eff strangers have a healthy sex drive?Baloney.

 

I have a healthy appetite for food. Doesn't mean I am not selective about what I eat, lol. Anyway, don't let this modern dating thing bring you down. Lots of people aren't into hooking up, or screwing relative strangers. The more focused you get about eliminating people who don't share your philosophy about relationships... Whatever it is... The quicker you can find someone who does.

[SwordofFlame]

But what about if you really find the person interesting and someone you'd like to have in your life? Would you be willing to pursue a friendship if that is what seems to be on the table, and to be happy with however that progresses, even if it doesn't progress to a romance?

 

I don't want to have to do anything physically with anyone early on just to prove my interest. If I'm interested, it's because I'm primarily interested in our intellectual / spiritual / humor connection, and I wouldn't be around that if I didn't also find the person physically attractive. Once we've made those connections, only THEN am I willing at this point to do anything physical.

 

I feel like the person should have a sense that there obviously is a degree of mutual interest, and we should be able to articulate that to each other before touching lips.

 

No?

What you're saying sounds pretty close to the friends first approach to dating. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not totally against it either, but the thing is, if you're going to use that approach I have to know you're putting in some effort too. For example, if I plan a date then you plan the next date, and so forth. I initiate contact sometimes, you initiate contact sometimes.

 

The problem is I've never actually met a women who wanted to do that. I've had to make all of the effort to plan dates, wine and dine women repeatedly, all the while not being sure at all if she even likes me. I've done that a few times and not once has it ever turned out well. So now I refuse to do it anymore.

Edited November 10, 2015 by SwordofFlame

[RedRobin]

Here's a question... why would a guy think that a woman having sex with him early equates to interest?

 

 

The couple of times I had sex early with a guy, it completely killed my interest in him... and not because the sex wasn't good.

[Shining One]

Here's a question... why would a guy think that a woman having sex with him early equates to interest?

It's an indication of sexual interest. I've "dated" plenty of women who had purely platonic interest in me. When a woman has sex with me, I see it as confirmation that our relationship has potential to be more than platonic.

 

I'm guessing you've never been hit with the "I think we'd make better friends" line a couple months and a dozen dates in.

[RedRobin]

I always pay my share, and I don't multi date, so if it has gone a couple of months and it doesn't look like a relationship is in the cards... it's not because of the lack of sex. It's because we aren't compatible in other areas. I'm not a fan of getting re-tested for STDs every few months, so I don't have sex with a guy unless we have established a relationship.

 

 

I think part of the trouble comes when guys pay for dates with women who haven't done anything else to establish interest except her showing up.

 

 

Her having sex with you doesn't establish romantic interest either. Just stick around LS for awhile. Lots of women are having sex with multiple men they are 'dating' with little or no intention of entering a relationship with any of them.

 

 

I don't, but lots do. If you are ok with that, fine. I think there are better ways of establishing sincere interest than who you are or are not having sex with or kissing when you are just getting to know someone.

[joseb]

But...do you think that logic is really sound? I imagine it's true in broad strokes, and so probably ok as an early-dating weed-out, generally, but...I have a very high sex drive and I'm saying I don't want to kiss anyone after only a couple of dates. I am sure there are men who are the same. Especially as we get older (I'm 39), and have been burned in the past.

 

Well, I've never felt that way about someone I was interested in physically - if I am interested I will want to see if the kiss matches what I'm hoping it will, before investing a lot of time in someone who I might not have any real chemistry with. If they are not interested enough to kiss me after a couple of dates, I will take that as low interest and move on. I accept that I might lose the odd potential one this way (but honestly, in Australia, I doubt it)

 

As regards taking it slow, I agree - meeting the family after a couple of dates is really rushing it for me.

[Zapbasket]

When I first started dating after my fiancée died, I went through a lot of the things you talk about. I work around all men, so it is very easy for me to establish rapport with men... And like you said, they have no indication of how far out of my way I am going to establish that rapport in the early stages... They either think we have a deeper connection than we do, or they are just rushing things.

 

I try to give the benefit of the doubt, but I learned over time that guys who need to try and kiss me on the first date or two... Well, I could TRY to have a conversation with those guys and explain my pace... But the truth of the matter is, their idea of 'slow' means you are effing on date six instead of date three. After awhile, I got rather sick of explaining and having my wishes ignored. So I just eliminate those guys from my dating pool. They have a different agenda and different dating style. Don't worry about why. Don't waste your time explaining. Just move on from those guys.

 

 

I really relate to what you say. I just feel pushed by the general expectations around dating stages. It's like guys push for interest and commitment right away, and usually before I'm even sure whether I have that level of interest, and then if in the past I have overridden my reservations (for THEIR convenience), it seems I can't get the kind of care and commitment I need in return. It seems like with these guys, if I push back and assert the timeline I'M comfortable with, if they keep dating me it permanently alters the dynamic, for the worse. It's like it will only stay on track if I go along with what THEY want, or so it seems. And that's just untenable to me. It also makes me jaded, like, if you are so interested as you claim you are, then why would you just disappear or lose interest as soon as I say I AM interested, but want to take things slowly? It just justifies my reservations: I don't want to give them anything physically until I see that they truly SEE me and are interested in ME, not just in "winning" me.

[RedRobin]

I really relate to what you say. I just feel pushed by the general expectations around dating stages. It's like guys push for interest and commitment right away, and usually before I'm even sure whether I have that level of interest, and then if in the past I have overridden my reservations (for THEIR convenience), it seems I can't get the kind of care and commitment I need in return. It seems like with these guys, if I push back and assert the timeline I'M comfortable with, if they keep dating me it permanently alters the dynamic, for the worse. It's like it will only stay on track if I go along with what THEY want, or so it seems. And that's just untenable to me. It also makes me jaded, like, if you are so interested as you claim you are, then why would you just disappear or lose interest as soon as I say I AM interested, but want to take things slowly? It just justifies my reservations: I don't want to give them anything physically until I see that they truly SEE me and are interested in ME, not just in "winning" me.

 

 

Yep. That's it for me in a nutshell too. The whole pushing for intimacy quick is like... going without foreplay. Yawn. If they don't have the skills to establish genuine intimacy beforehand, then you better believe it's not going to be there later on either.

 

 

It used to make me jaded, now I just don't care. I see the pattern, and I just move them along. I've had a couple of successful relationships where the pace was slower, and it was so much more satisfying overall. For them too. Nobody walked away bitter or feeling used.

[Zapbasket]

It's an indication of sexual interest. I've "dated" plenty of women who had purely platonic interest in me. When a woman has sex with me, I see it as confirmation that our relationship has potential to be more than platonic.

 

I'm guessing you've never been hit with the "I think we'd make better friends" line a couple months and a dozen dates in.

 

But as someone said above, it's entirely possible you could have sex with someone and STILL be hit with that line months, maybe even many months, down the line.

 

Why can't it mean something that I am agreeing to spend time with you, and even, after the first couple of dates, initiating spending time with you, despite being busy and with lots of interests and friends I could spend time with? Why can't it mean something if I say, "I want to focus on us *really* getting to know each other before anything physical happens between us. I AM physically attracted to you, but I need much more than that to invest in a relationship with you"? What more evidence do you need that I am GENUINELY interested in you, but AS IS BOTH MY RIGHT AND YOURS, am taking my time to determine whether we might be compatible on the range of levels I need to continue spending significant time with someone?

 

I just feel that if someone I am dating were amenable to and understanding of my request to take things slowly, it will augment my attraction even more, making a kiss and later, sex, much more likely a) to happen and b) to be initiated by me, because I won't be able to help myself around this charming and refined man who really cares about and respects how I feel.

[Zapbasket]

Yep. That's it for me in a nutshell too. The whole pushing for intimacy quick is like... going without foreplay. Yawn. If they don't have the skills to establish genuine intimacy beforehand, then you better believe it's not going to be there later on either.

 

This. That is exactly what I have found, and precisely why I really want to hold off on kissing and jumping into the sack early on.

 

It used to make me jaded, now I just don't care. I see the pattern, and I just move them along. I've had a couple of successful relationships where the pace was slower, and it was so much more satisfying overall. For them too. Nobody walked away bitter or feeling used.

 

I can imagine. Because you both took time to actually learn about the other person. It's hard to dislike someone who has taken a genuine interest in YOU, even if they ultimately decide you two are incompatible.