hecknaw Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Hello, The discussion of understanding each other in a relationship is both broad and important. I'm here seeking input about a specific situation that occurred over halloween weekend, and the aftermath thereof. I tried to find similar threads here already, and there were a few that were similar, but I didn't quite find what I'm looking for. So, here is my situation, hopefully a few of you will read it all and offer any thoughts you might have! The background: I have been dating my girlfriend for about a year and a half. We had a couple instances in the past where we broke up for a couple weeks before getting back together. One of these instances was around halloween last year. We broke up, and subsequently we did not spend halloween together. Instead, I went to a party at a hotel with a group of people I know. One of those people is my ex girlfriend. My ex and I did not spend the night together, we only hung out at the party. It was a plutonic experience. I also didn't have a good time because there were multiple problems with the party (too crowded, rain caused problems, disorganization etc...) Cut to this year, for halloween, I planned a few things to do with my girlfriend including pumpkin carving and getting tickets to a big jackolantern festival. I was not particularly excited about planning anything big for the actual night of halloween, I would describe my attitude towards it as 'casual.' The week before halloween (last week) I didn't have plans to share with my girlfriend. She came over on wednesday evening for pumpkin carving and it was a very pleasant evening until the end, when she asked about what we'd do for halloween and I explained that I didn't need to make big plans and I wanted to play it by ear. Her mood shifted and I asked her why. She said she thought it was odd, partially because she was under the impression that I loved halloween and would want to make plans. I expressed again that I just felt like being casual about it this year. She got very quiet (something was wrong) I asked her about it and she thought for some time before finally just telling me that it seems weird to her and she can't really explain why. She asked me if there is any reason I wasn't more excited for halloween. I thought for a minute, and told her that what I wanted to do was the things I'd planned...pumpkin carving, jack-o-lantern festival... and that I wanted to spend halloween with her but that it didn't matter what we did, whether it be going out to a party or watching scary movies on the couch. As this still didn't seem to be an adequate explanation, I thought a bit more and then explained that maybe because the previous year I tried to go out to a party and it wasn't fun, that I didn't want to do anything like that again. This actually had not occurred to me before this point, but I realized it was true, that I was put off from halloween partying this year because the previous year was not fun. Important point of note right now, when I was explaining this to my girlfriend, I did not mention that my ex-girlfriend was part of my group the previous halloween. This is actually not a secret, there are pictures from halloween that we were both in, and I was not trying to hide this fact. Rather, I felt that this information was not pertinent to the point of my explanation, which was that the party was not fun for logistical reasons and I didn't want to do something similar. I would later find out that my girlfriend thought that I was purposely omitting this information in a way that felt dishonest to her. There is a bit more backstory here, namely that several months ago we attended a wedding where we had to be around my ex-girlfriend. And though I told my current girlfriend that my ex and I are only friends and that there was nothing left between us. It turned out that my ex got uncomfortable around my current girlfriend and I, and behaved in a way that showed that she still had feelings for me to a degree. This resulted in an argument between myself and my current girlfriend, a point of which was her telling me that I need to be honest about things that make me uncomfortable. So, back to the present incident, she felt that I was not being fully honest about my explanation as a result of my being uncomfortable discussing it. Again, the case truly was that I didn't mention my ex-girlfriend's presence because I didn't feel it was pertinent, that it would uselessly bother my girlfriend to hear it. Ultimately, what bothered her was NOT hearing it, but I did not know this at the time. So, still, she was acting skeptical and wasn't particularly satisfied but I didn't know what else to tell her. But, she did tell me that she didn't really care what we did, whether it be go out somewhere, or stay in and watch movies. Obviously, something was bothering her, but she did not express to me that she had any more enthusiasm for halloween than I had expressed to her. I thought that, even though something was clearly not right with her still, that it was agreed that we didn't need to make big plans, and that we could play it by ear (this was a minor point of contention later, as I had not expressly said that I wanted to "play it by ear", but rather that I thought this was implied when I was explaining my nonchalant attitude to her. I said that I would look into options for Saturday and that I would get back to her tomorrow. The next day, I looked into some possibilities and talk to some friends about what they were doing. I didn't find anything that really interested me. My girlfriend and I spoke on the phone that night and it was generally genial talk about our days without incident. We didn't bring up halloween, she didn't ask me about it and I didn't volunteer the fact that I hadn't found anything that I was interested in doing (this turned out to be a mistake by me, not being communicative even if I didn't have any new information to share). We ended the conversation fine and went to bed. Friday, I spoke with another friend about hanging out at someone's house for halloween. This was late morning. I did not share this information with my girlfriend throughout the day until we started chatting towards the end of the workday. She asked me about halloween and I told her that I was talking to my friend Steve (fake name just because it feels odd being so personal as to use real people's names, sorry!) about hanging out with them, but that I didn't have all the details yet (he was going to a friend's house and we were welcome to come, but I did not know the friend, the times, the circumstances etc.). My girlfriend was clearly not happy. She doesn't like late notice of anything, she likes to plan. She was upset that I hadn't discussed this with her earlier in the day, and she also brought up that I was supposed to give her some options the day before and had not done so. This was the beginning of the argument. At this point, I thought she was just mad that I had waited until the last minute to offer her details of a plan. I quickly apologized for this as I knew this was something that she didn't like. My thought was that I would apologize for my mistake and remind her that I had expressed my casual attitude about halloween plans. I also reminded her that she agreed, that she said that she didn't care what we did and that she hadn't expressed any more enthusiasm than I had. As it turned out, the main problem she had with the situation was that the halloween weekend was a particularly sensitive time for her because a) we were broken up last year and b) I had been with my ex the previous year. It WAS important to her that we make this weekend special for us and to her mind I had ruined it by failing to see this. That is the most general way I can explain the core of the argument that ensued. However, it was still not that simple and the conversation we had friday night lasted about 7 hours. Key points were the above, that she was sensitive to this holiday because of the past, that she wanted it to be special, that it bothered her that I didn't mention my ex when I explained why I didn't have fun the previous year. This also led to me getting defensive because she didn't explain how she felt about the holiday to me and I didn't understand why it was a big deal. The argument got very contentious and she cried and yelled about me several times in response to me being defensive and not understanding why she was so upset. There are many details that I'm leaving out because this is already going very long and I'm hoping a few people will actually read it and bounce some thoughts off me. One important note. Like I said earlier, it ended up being very bothersome to her that I did not mention my ex being at halloween the previous year. Ultimately I was able to explain that I wasn't trying to withhold information because I was uncomfortable talking about, but rather that I felt there was truly no need to bring it up. Again, this felt dishonest to her, but it was at least in part because she thought I was nervously avoiding the topic, not that I simply didn't think it relevant to the discussion. But also! ...this lead to discussing the previous year's halloween, and what exactly happened. We had never talked about it and she asked me questions about it. I told her that my ex and I, as well as another one of our friends, carpooled to the party. I explained that at the end of the night, my ex stayed over at my apartment because she was drunk. I also explained to her that even though my ex got into my bed to fall asleep, that I slept in the guest bedroom and that nothing more happened that night. I thought she might be skeptical of this, but it's true and she accepted it. She is generally not an untrusting person and I do not lie to her. But, this raised questions about boundaries, and why I would let my ex sleep over that night. Even though I was single, it was relatively soon after a breakup, and I clearly still had my current girlfriend on the mind...as evidenced by our eventual reconciliation. So, this is another layer of problem to add to the others. And also, because she knew I had been around my ex the previous halloween, and she already knew this, this is partly why she was extra sensitive to the holiday this year. I will say posthumously, though, that once I started to understand why she felt the way she did--once she explained some of the things that I did not know, that I became much more understanding and apologized for my behavior. I tried to see the situation from her point of view and I felt that she had a right to be disappointed in my lack of enthusiasm. However, I still felt that it was unfair for her to blame me completely when she did not try to discuss any of these things with me when we had talked a few days prior (I had questioned her reaction to me, I tried to talk to her about what was on her mind). When I expressed this to her, she explained that it would have been very uncomfortable to discuss these feelings with me before, and that instead she chose to hope that I would "get it" and act accordingly. I do not think that is fair to me at all, and this is why, ultimately, I landed on this being a problem of communication between us where we were both at fault and the initial miscommunication snowballed into something much worse. (The ensuing "something" that was much worse--the argument that ultimately spanned multiple days--contained many instances of both of us lashing out, both of us being defensive, both of us making mistakes in how we handled the argument for which we ultimately both apologized.) Saturday, I woke up late, early afternoon, because we had been up until about 4 the previous night talking. I had a previously scheduled engagement for a few hours that did not allow me to focus on unpacking the previous night's argument. After which, though, from about 3:30 on I was able to think about the circumstances. Yes, I felt I had done something wrong and I was sorry for the way that I made her feel the previous day. I also felt like she had made a critical error in not expressing to me how she felt earlier. I was very unsure of how I felt about the whole incident. It was such a bad argument that I was considering whether or not we should continue our relationship. Ultimately, I decided that it was not going to ruin our relationship, but that I still felt unsatisfied by the fact that she seemed to feel that I was 100% the villain in this scenario. That there wasn't much, if any sharing of the blame. So I did not talk to her until about 6 in the evening, when I sent her a text message (poorly chosen by me, in retrospect) saying simply that I didn't know what to do. Partly, I meant that I wasn't sure about what we should do that evening because it was up in the air whether or not we would be able to spend halloween together. I thought that we had ended our fight on better terms the previous night. I thought that in the end, we both had a better understanding of the other's feelings, but that we had not solved the issue, and it was unclear if we were going to feel good enough to spend hallween together the next day. By 6 in the evening, this was still unclear in my mind, but I thought that I needed the time that day to think about everything we discussed before talking to her again. As it turns out, this silence had made things much worse for her. As the day went on, and she was not hearing from me, she was feeling worse and worse about the situation. I think this is understandable, although I don't think it was unreasonable for me to assume that both of us needed time to think. She also did not reach out to me before I finally messaged her. So, I was surprised by her reaction when we finally got on the phone and she was very upset. She felt that I still did not understand her, and that I was still not accepting responsibility for making her feel the way she did. She felt that I still hadn't apologized for putting her in an unfair position. I wasn't sure how to react to this as I still thought that the misunderstanding was largely mutual. We argued again, for quite some time on the phone. However, eventually we calmed down again and I ended up going to see her. I brought some picnic supplied, something to drink, some ice cream and candles, to try to salvage halloween night. We ended up having a pleasant time, I played some music on my phone and we slowdanced a bit. I thought I was doing a good job of creating something that we could be happy about later for the weekend. I knew the problem wasn't exactly fixed, that she was still reserved and a bit sad when I first showed up that night. By the end of the night, I thought it was pretty good for both of us and we said goodnight pleasantly. She said she still needed me to help her heal from the arguments and the sadness that she felt over the largely ruined weekend. I understood and told her that I would. I also told her that I needed her to help me a little as well. She asked me to take her to lunch the next day and I happily agreed. Sunday, I drove to her place and picked her up, she seemed reserved still but I purposely tried to be upbeat to lift up her spirits. We went to a restaurant where we were going to have a good meal. After a bit of a wait, the restaurant told us that they were backed up and that even if they seat us, we would probably have to wait another 30 minutes for any food to come out. This very much irritated my girlfriend who was still a little on edge, and we were both very hungry. We left and looked for another place to eat nearby but she got progressively more annoyed as we failed to find another good option. We went back to the original restaurant and decided to wait (they would be able to bring us appetizers quickly, just not the main courses). This was fine with me, though I was getting more uncomfortable and irritated simply by my girlfriend's reaction to the situation. Once we were seated, her level of irritation brought out the fact that she still felt bad from the previous two days, that she needed me to try harder and to understand her position more. I thought I'd expressed that I had and I clearly was trying. She seemed unconvinced. It started to put me in a very bad mood, and eventually she apologized for the way she was lashing out. The first half or so of the meal was miserable, but it was salvaged and we went on with our day. We went shopping for stuff we needed at home, and for some groceries and it was mostly very pleasant. We ended the day on nice terms again and we both went home feeling better. Monday, I was back to work and didn't have much opportunity to talk with her, we chatted by texting throughout the day, but it was sparse. We spoke in the evening, but not for too long and she didn't really bring up the weekend. Tuesday, same situation, except in the evening, she admitted to me that she still felt terrible for most of the day, until she talked with her best friend after which she felt much better. We didn't have a chance to actually discuss this though at the end of the evening because she had taken a sleeping pill by this time and we didn't have time to get into it. Wednesday, she seemed to feel much better throughout the day. In the evening we chatted on the phone, mostly about the day, not about the previous weekend. She seemed happy, we said goodnight pleasantly and went to sleep. Today, she admitted again that she was feeling bad. She explained to me that she still feels like I don't understand her, that I didn't take full responsibility for my actions, and so therefore it is easier for me to move on from it and that she feels like she is dealing with this alone. I'm at a bit of a loss now because I feel like I did a good job of talking things through with her and trying to see things from per point of view. Yes, there were times when I was defensive and argumentative and wasn't taking full responsibility. But this is is because I really thought that we had both made mistakes. And I'm willing to take full responsibility for MY mistakes, but that it's not fair that she still has the attitude that I ruined our weekend and that I still need to make it right in some way that I haven't already tried. I have admitted fault, apologized many many times, tried to make her feel better. Reassured her that I love her and that I don't want to make her feel this way and that I was sorry that things went the way that they did. At this point, I'm not sure what I'm not understanding, but she thinks that I still don't understand her. She is also not helping me to figure out what I'm still not getting. She is taking a very "I shouldn't have to explain anything else to you attitude" and I am getting very frustrated. If you have read this far, PLEASE share any and all thoughts that you might have. Perhaps there is something obvious that I am overlooking. I don't know. Please ask me questions as well, maybe there is something important that I have left out because it was difficult summarizing the past week as concisely as possible. At this point, I really just feel like I need another perspective (as many new perspectives as possible, really). Please help! Thanks
acrosstheuniverse Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 That was an exhausting read! You guys have serious communication problems. It's like your girlfriend doesn't even want to try to be happy in the relationship. I can see why she's annoyed you didn't tell her about your ex sleeping in your bed, I mean you were broken up but still, that would upset and worry me as it happened in between being in a relationship with your girlfriend, I imagine she's wondering whether you still have feelings for her, to be letting her sleep in your bed despite you saying that it's just a platonic relationship. But for this to drag on for days, a SEVEN hour conversation about it!? You must have gotten it all out of both your systems by now so it's time to either break up because it's a deal breaker or put it behind you and move on. Sounds like you have apologised for the omission and grovelled and still none of it is good enough for her. Does she enjoy relationship drama or something? She sounds very passive aggressive, quizzing you to get you to admit you were with your ex last year instead of just coming right out with it and asking you what happened and why you didn't mention it. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but if I had to be around my boyfriend's ex at a wedding, she acted weird about us being together and he didn't bother mentioning that she'd been in his bed while we were separated briefly I would be mad about that frankly. But in relationships you either accept and move on or break up. Dragging it on with endless conversations and resurrections doesn't actually help to repair and mend anything. It's like your gf is bringing it up because no matter how much reassurance you give her of your feelings (compared to your feelings for ex) it's just not enough. In your position I would be worn out. After everything you've said to try make it right, I'd meet up in person and say look, I apologised until I'm blue in the face, either you forgive me and we leave it in our past now or you walk away because this isn't healthy for either of us. 1
quankanne Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 I'll admit, you lost me about a third of the way through, but not before I found this: It WAS important to her that we make this weekend special for us and to her mind I had ruined it by failing to see this. see, that's where you failed, buddy. You were supposed to read her mind, and between the lines, too, and know immediately that this was important to her, and that you obviously don't care enough if you failed to even come up with plans in a reasonable timeframe. Pretty much, you're screwed, or, "damned if you do, damned if you don't." however, I can tell you this plagues EVERY couple, no matter how long they've been together. I"m an old married lady, and yeah, I confess I do this sometimes, but thank goodness my Chachi will tell me to stop being a little beech about things, and to just say what I want to say. And he's right, as is the previous poster: You've got to have good communication skills in a healthy relationship, or resentment festers and all of a sudden, you find yourself getting nagged at for saying "Hey, so-and-so actress has got a cute smile, don'tcha think?" (yes, even when you're an old married fart ... everything can be ammunition, if you let it become so.) I digress. Tell her to stop making you guess why she's upset and to just spit it out. Otherwise, she's being the villain in the relationship by making you suffer needlessly because she won't communicate. Because if you kids can't do that one simple thing – communicate openly – then the passive-aggressive games are a sign that you need to get out of the relationship. In other words, if she's demanding you grow up and be better about communicating, but she doesn't have to do likewise, she's more interested in manipulating your relationship than she is about creating a healthy one between the two of you. sorry for being so cruel, but life's short, and it shouldn't be spent living out unhealthy relationships.
Recommended Posts