Update on a friends isolation being a cause for concern.

[PaperCrane]

Incoming wall of text! Original thread here Original Thread

 

This has continued since the original post. Followed the advice and the numbers were never used.

 

The behavior has continued. They're now approaching their 1 year anniversary. He has made it clear her former friends are "bad influences" or "competition" even if they were girls or not interested. She talks to two people: Myself and her mother.

 

She has been getting more and more depressed as the year has gone on. Biggest change has been the past two months. Lack of energy. Lack of enthusiasm. She blames work as the source and I believed her. At first. She always asks how I'd feel if she just disappeared. I always was there to be open if she needed help. She hates asking for help though, so if it ever came it always came as hypothetical questions.

 

A lot has happened over the year. A lot. However things came to a head yesterday which I'll outline.

 

I want to point out, one of her major MAJOR dreams is to have a family of her own and this guy has multiple children and they both don't make a lot of money.

 

I have seen bruises on her. Large one in particular at the lower back/buttocks (I used to be in the medical field and she had a rash area she wanted me to apply medicine to.) She denies knowing about it. This thing was a monster and she doesn't know how she got it. After this she's taken to not wearing clothes around that she normally would. Always full length pants when she hates pants and long sleeve shirts and socks. She also hates wearing socks around the house.

 

I've been threatened by him multiple times. Through people and at work.

 

Last night, a night I usually am out with friends got cancelled due to some college stuff on their end. So I went home. She was at work until later that evening.

 

We have 2 cats together. They raise hell when we're not home sometimes. Pulling stuff out of our rooms and whatnot. Be it shoes, clothes, jewelry, etc.

 

She hardly ever leaves her door open. Today it was. Down the hallway was a book jammed up against the doorframe and the door. It was partially opened to one page. I always pick up the stuff and would just toss it in the room on her bed as it's right there. As I picked it up I realized it was a journal and as I was closing the book. A line jumped out at me. "[...]get my tubes tied. I don't want to, but I have to, for him. I love him"

 

I quickly skimmed the entry and felt sick doing it. I closed it and placed it down on her bed. The jist is that she hates herself for disliking his children. She feels she's a bad person. She feels she cannot accept this but then says she's going to get her tubes tied so they can stay together. Because being in love means giving up dreams so you can be together. He doesn't want more children and this hurts her more than anything in her life. That he is her entire world and she can't lose him. She has to give up school, travel, and her dream of her own business because that's what love 'needs'.

 

This girl is all of 20 years old. Her parents live next door. I went to talk to her mother. I asked if she's noticed any odd behavior or comments. Any large life decisions coming up she knew about because I've been worried to death over the past few months watching this decline into a depressive like state. Puking every other day from nerves. Hugging herself while she sits and hunches over. Sleeping 10+ hours a day. She didn't know any of that. So we sat down and I explained what happened. What I've been seeing and what should we do, if anything.

 

Her mother and she spoke, while they were he swung by the apartment and sat outside in his car. Acting erratic moving the car in and out of gear over and over. I went outside to have a smoke because I had no idea who this was at first. He placed his car behind mine to block it in and things almost escalated but he decided to haul out of there going about 50 down a 25 street.

 

She said today that she's going to move out in two months back to her parents, focus on starting college, get her car situation in order and start a new job with regular hours and better pay. No mention of him at all.

 

I honestly don't mind if she never speaks to me again, but I'm just hoping given what happened that I did the right thing. This whole thing has been a major mess. I'm thinking a restraining order on him would do me some good.

 

Anyone have any moving forward advice or thoughts?

[turnera]

Keep following up on it. "Two months" means it will never happen. If she was going to move, it would have happened then. It usually takes abuse victims 5 or 6 attempts before they finally really leave an abuser. And it almost never happens without people like you standing by them and urging them along.

[PaperCrane]

Well, at my second job we're all co-workers.

 

A fellow co-worker has said she's been getting more and more terrified of him as time has gone on. She is a friend of my roommate as well. Many of the threats sent to me have been sent through her and she's been told he would ruin her life if she said anything to myself or my roommate.

 

I've also learned he has previous domestic abuse charges.

 

I have decided to move ahead with an investigation at work. I have a written statement ready to go and the co-worker is speaking with members of management today.

 

The roommate will be moving back in with her parents at the beginning of the year. She gave her notice to the landlord and I have a replacement roomie lined up.

 

Moving back home will let her focus on her own life again.

 

I'm not 100% certain if there is abuse or not going on, but something is telling me there is. I sit on this indecision because what I am doing will probably cause a large disturbance in his life and his children's lives. Aside from the tubal ligation which could be totally up to her without outside influence, even though he refuses to wear condoms and she said in the journal that they couldn't afford one if it happened. There are a number of other instances of things that have kind of sent up flags for me over time;

 

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WALL-O-TEXT

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When she's not allowed to accept a t-shirt and a cheap-o wally world necklace from a co-worker friend for Christmas because "it might make her look slutty".

 

She has to tell people to stop using their shortened pet name for her.

 

Not allowed to accept gifts or niceties from others that have been labeled as 'competition' or 'influences'.

 

Bruises. So many bruises that come from areas of total unknown even to her, to "always bumping into things".

 

Changing her normal manner of dress from a bit more form fitting clothing to hoodies and baggier pants and sweaters, even during the end of summer and while at work. She no longer wears the dresses that she loves or her heeled boots that she almost exploded from happiness at finding last year.

 

Hiding the fact she spends time with me. She will tell her parents or whomever asks that she is home alone and I'm out with friends.

 

She's never had fake nails before. So during a week she was having a really hard time I took her to have some done. Not huge ones just a bit longer than normal nails. She loved them. She was always insecure about her nails because she'd sometimes pick at them or bite them. Everyone gave her compliments and she'd always be looking at different colors online for them. She ended up tearing them off, and I asked what happened, she replied in that kind of tone of dull acceptance "It's okay, they were too slutty anyways. Plus it's too expensive."

 

Her boyfriend couldn't afford a new car after his broke down. Used or otherwise. His credit is obliterated. Couldn't get a loan of any kind. Tried to do a 'gofundme' and it failed with a total of $0 given after a month and a half. Suddenly he has a new 2014 Malibu, and also suddenly she has almost no money to do anything with anymore despite the fact she used to brag about having $1000 left over at the end of the month. She recently mentioned he was having a hard time paying the insurance on the vehicle. Now she has no money for anything and I see her using her 'emergency' credit card on most if not all of her purchases. I had helped her build her credit over the past year. Got a second card with her name on it on my largest line so that history would show up on her report and boost her score. Helped her choose her first card and proper spending habits with it. In no time at all she was breaking in to the mid 700's. This was so that she could get her own phone line in the future if needed, if she ever had to move and they needed a credit check, and on a multitude of other things. I fear that he has roped her into paying for the vehicle so he can 'take care of his kids'. It's not just that she'll say "I don't need that." or "Ehh, too expensive." it is "I can't spend the money."

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm giving my statement tomorrow to the HR department and management team. I had the statement notarized even though it probably doesn't help anything at all.

[jen1447]

I'm a little confused - was checking out your older threads for background and they seemed to show a jumbled up timeline of the situation. Older ones mentioned this was a thing of the past, newer ones seemed to show that you were more recently in love w/her, having relations, etc.

 

Ultimately it doesn't matter since she needs to get away from the abusive guy asap, but for your part it's hard to tell you how to deal w/out knowing exactly where you stand and what the situation between the two of you really is. (Your 'rights' as to what liberties you can take to help her will vary depending on what position you hold in her life, forex. If you're a spurned former lover - but still a roomate? - you bscly have none in practical terms, but if you're somehow now her BFF you do. Etc.)

[PaperCrane]

We are, or were now, best friends.

 

Yes there was feelings/other stuff involved at one point but that's water under the bridge.

 

Today she asked how I was doing and how I felt about her moving out. I said I felt good about it because it helps set up a good foundation for her future which is something I care about. Of course it sucks because we lose what our dynamic was but that's okay.

 

She said she'd stay if she had the money. This is something that always confused me. She'd come to me for advice on this stuff since I work in the finance sector as my primary job. I may work IT for the most part but I'm also involved in other aspects.

 

After all necessities are paid she'd have a comfy 900-1000 left over. Which for a 20 year old is pretty darn good. And after all her playing around and other stuff she would have 400-500. We've talked about this before, her usually coming to me and asking how much is a good idea to set aside for this or that. She considers me a role model and has said as much.

 

So when I brought this up and that it just worries me when she tells me shes hurting for money when she says she has so much left over she just lost it. Told me to stay out of her life and her decisions are her own and how anything involving her isn't and wasn't any of my f***ing business.

 

I've always agreed with that her decisions are her own. Autonomy is important. She'd often come to me with her ideas and what she wants to do and ask what I think the good way of going about this type of thing is. Recently though she hasn't. I've asked how her life is and if she has any goals ahead of her and it just kinda doesn't happen.

 

So today, after asking me how I felt about things, and telling the truth about that, it just dissolved. I told her I don't judge her, just that I had similar experiences and what happened when I chose to do a certain thing.

 

This now takes her number of actual friends outside of chat buddies down to 0.

[PaperCrane]

I think Jen might be right that I might not have any 'rights' on trying to help her.

 

She recently had a real bad breakdown when she realized I'd be out of her life. Turned her room inside out, told me she's grown to love me, I'm the best person she's ever met, her moments with me are her favorite, etc etc. Took back what she said previously about staying out of her life.

 

When she thought that a male friend I had come over was a female she just lost it even more. Her art books turned into confetti. Her face was a mess of mascara streaks. Told me about how she can't lose me because she feels she'd be absolutely alone and I'm the only one who knows her like I do and she can trust me. Found pieces of her art, torn up and strewn about, with "I'm sorry" written all over them after that.

 

If she's going to get over whatever else is hurting her I don't think I can be there when it happens, although I did get the ball rolling on getting her out of a situation where she's being abused at least. I've had a few more people come forward to me with their concerns as well since my last posting.

 

Saw some more bruises on her the other day. She didn't know where they came from or she thought maybe they were from 'bumping' into things (the bruise went all the way around her upper arm). After that she went and bought a cheap mens flannel that she wears everywhere now that covers almost all of her. One of the concerns someone brought up to me was that while at work she was 'led' away from one of her old friends by him holding her around the upper arm.

 

I need to leave this situation, but I also feel I need to make sure she's okay. It's not easy.

 

Moved forward with my statements at work. Regardless of everything else this guy should not be going around telling people he's going to ruin their lives and threats of physical violence against people in her life are simply not okay. Plus doing those things at work, no one needs to deal with that.

Edited November 16, 2015 by PaperCrane

[turnera]

I'm confused. You're friends but you're not but now you are again? How is reporting her at work going to help her? Do they call her in like a school counselor? It almost sounds like you're her lover?

[PaperCrane]

I'm confused. You're friends but you're not but now you are again? How is reporting her at work going to help her? Do they call her in like a school counselor? It almost sounds like you're her lover?

 

Reporting him. Sorry. Thought I outlined that in the OP.

He has threatened multiple people over the past year, myself included, all of them co-workers and did so at work. I'm reporting his threatening behavior because its not acceptable and I've tried to diffuse the whole thing but I've just hit dead ends.

 

There has been a lot of push and pull from her over this whole thing in regards to 'being friends'. Trust me, I'm in the dark over much of this as well.

 

It does sound that way, that I'm her lover, but I'm very much not.

 

What will happen will be that the guy will probably get let go from the job. He does other things too that he's been reported for. Like filming girls at work on his phone, touching people when he's been told by them to stop, yelling at others, etc. I'm one of the first to really come forward with a extensive write up about what's been going on. That's neither here nor there, but the implications of doing this may adversely affect her which is something I'm worried about considering his behavior.

[jen1447]

Do you happen to be a legit badass by any chance? Or know any?

[turnera]

Once you report him, keep extra care to watch out for her. If he has a bad time of it, she's the one he's going to beat for it.

[PaperCrane]

Hahaha, yeah I know a few 'badasses' and I know how to handle myself. But turnera is right, if things go bad they're gonna go real bad. I'll be extra vigilant. I have a few friends who know the situation who said they're around in case she needs a place to go.

[turnera]

Make sure she knows that before you report him. And who they are and how to reach them. Write it all out on a piece of paper. Maybe even hand her a gophone to call for help.

[bathtub-row]

This won't end with her moving out. It's got "OJ and Nicole" written all over it. He is massively abusive and, unless he unexpectedly dies in a car accident, then your friend is in grave danger. She's too young to know how to extract herself from this mess, it has become normal to her, and because she thinks loving him will make a difference, he will be able to either weasel his way back into her life, or he will try - and likely succeed - to kill her.

 

I'm not sure what you can do at this point but you did the right thing by talking to her mom. I hope things work out for the best.

[bathtub-row]

Btw, the thing about the bruises reminds me of what the women said about Bill Cosby when he drugged them. They woke up with bruises all over their bodies. Your friend really may not know how she's getting those bruises if she's being drugged. Very sickening to think about.

[StBreton]

Others have offered advice on the abuse...I'll just add that as a woman of 20 yrs old...there are no doctors that I know of that will tie her tubes at this young age. I'm in the medical field.

 

Ultimately with all the other behavior that she allows in her life...it is her decision. The situation is beyond sad but it is her decision. How old is the goof ball she is dating?

[PaperCrane]

Others have offered advice on the abuse...I'll just add that as a woman of 20 yrs old...there are no doctors that I know of that will tie her tubes at this young age. I'm in the medical field.

 

Ultimately with all the other behavior that she allows in her life...it is her decision. The situation is beyond sad but it is her decision. How old is the goof ball she is dating?

 

I believe he is 31 or 32.

 

There are doctors that will do it that young. I know of a girl I used to work with at 22 got a tubal ligation. What happened was that the insurance wouldn't cover it but she had the cash. She went doctor to doctor until one said yes.

 

She doesn't want it done, not at all. Being a biological mother to her child is a dream of hers. She wants to get it done to make him happy because he refuses to use condoms, he already has kids and doesn't want more, and she believes giving things up for someone is 'love'. If she had actually wanted to do this without any outside influence I wouldn't have gotten so worked up over it. The thing is though is that she tells me her dreams, and having children is one of them. Doing this will, as she admitted in that entry, will hurt her more than she'll ever admit but she feels she will have to do it.

 

Her moving out is out of her and I's apartment, she's currently my roommate. She does stay over at his place fairly often. They haven't enmeshed that far yet. I'm glad she's going back to her parents because they're pretty much the only people she takes into consideration as far as opinions go, and she needs them now.

 

She's too young to know how to extract herself from this mess, it has become normal to her, and because she thinks loving him will make a difference, he will be able to either weasel his way back into her life, or he will try - and likely succeed - to kill her.

 

Yeah, I can tell in a way she equates pain with love.

 

Make sure she knows that before you report him. And who they are and how to reach them. Write it all out on a piece of paper. Maybe even hand her a gophone to call for help.

 

I gave her a phone after hers took a trip down the stairs awhile back. I want to tell her I'm reporting him, not only at work but with a restraining order as well. She has been told before what he's done to others and her reaction is always to just brush it off or simply walk away from the person voicing the concerns.

 

I have a plan in place for the day it happens, but the follow ups will be hard. My fear is that, as another poster said, weasel his way back in.

[turnera]

What's her relationship with her dad like? Did she learn abuse from him?

[PaperCrane]

Her and her father are very very close.

 

However, from the dynamic I've witnessed between them, I believe she's learned to equate pain with love. So yes, I believe you're correct. When it's good between those two it's awesome. When it's bad...it's bad.

 

He became disabled when she was young, but not super young. Around the time she turned 12. This has turned him rather bitter over the years. He felt like he lost his manhood. He lost his ability to provide.

 

I probably overstepped my bounds here as well, but one time I was over there visiting and he decided to tell her she looked like a slut and that she was stupid. She took off crying. I was unimpressed to say the least.

 

I came back the next day when he was just home, brought some beer and asked if he wanted to hang out. We played some games and I talked with him. I told him how devastating his words are to her, how much she looks up to him and she uses him as a lighthouse to guide her to men in her life. If he does the things he does, that's how she learns what to accept and look for in a relationship.

 

He got upset with me, started yelling and all that. I asked if he was done when he had to sit back down. I told him he can be as angry with me as he wants, but when she gets sent running out of her parents place, a place she feels is her sanctuary, in tears because he had a bad day and lashes out at her, that simply isn't okay. If she is to be happy like he wants, to find someone who will be good to her, then at least set the example of how a man should treat her. I understand where his pain comes from, and told him as much. I understand the frustration and the feeling of losing what made you feel like a man, but raging at the people who look up to you the most isn't going to bring that back.

 

We finished our drinks and our games and I went home.

 

I visited more often and we talked more. Eventually I've stopped hearing anything about things he's said that were bad. I hear about encouragement and praise and how proud he is. She's remarked at how much more she enjoys going to visit her parents place. We started having a game night with her parents and he came more and more out of his shell. He used to run to his room when there was company. Now he'll come out and talk and I'll ask about his hobbies and we have a good time and laugh and watch movies after.

 

Though I think the years of dealing with a home where the mother simply gives in and the father dishes out insults and seethed in anger and despair have already done it's damage.

[turnera]

Yeah, 12 years old is absolutely the WORST year for a daughter to start seeing such a change. Lots of studies on it.

 

If I were you, I'd look for some articles about it, about how girls will assume that role from how their dads treat them, but that doesn't make it right. The more she learns, the more she can see what her bf is doing is wrong.

[PaperCrane]

Yeah, 12 years old is absolutely the WORST year for a daughter to start seeing such a change. Lots of studies on it.

 

If I were you, I'd look for some articles about it, about how girls will assume that role from how their dads treat them, but that doesn't make it right. The more she learns, the more she can see what her bf is doing is wrong.

 

I've talked with her about it. I've read a lot on it as well. She needs to want to understand it though.

[bathtub-row]

I hate to say it but this girl is seriously messed up. She is so weak and has so few boundaries that it's downright frightening. I doubt there's anything you can do for her until she decides to get help. I'm not real hopeful about that though. She seems to be a born victim.

 

The truth is, she would be doing any potential kids a favor by getting herself fixed. She will stay with this guy and if she had kids with him, he'd abuse them too. In that sense, not having kids would be merciful.

 

And btw, if you have any hope of her leaving him, I'm pretty sure you'll end up disappointed.

Edited November 17, 2015 by bathtub-row

[PaperCrane]

I hate to say it but this girl is seriously messed up. She is so weak and has so few boundaries that it's downright frightening. I doubt there's anything you can do for her until she decides to get help. I'm not real hopeful about that though. She seems to be a born victim.

 

The truth is, she would be doing any potential kids a favor by getting herself fixed. She will stay with this guy and if she had kids with him, he'd abuse them too. In that sense, not having kids would be merciful.

 

And btw, if you have any hope of her leaving him, I'm pretty sure you'll end up disappointed.

 

I know I can't actually save her or fix her. I do care about her. All I'm hoping is that what I do might raise some fog out of her head so she has a chance of correcting the boat before it hits a reef.

 

I'll keep this updated as this unfolds.