Tony Posted May 26, 2005 Senior Moderators Posted May 26, 2005 When things are really going great, I believe in God. And I will swear by Him/Her the day I win the lottery. Most of the time, I just hope if there is a God, He believes in me. It goes both ways, you know.
Pocky Posted May 26, 2005 Posted May 26, 2005 Originally posted by ~Naive~ I am sure that if there is a God he is powerful enough to let me know that it's a sign!!! Hey he did make the world id he not? It shall be easy to convince me! If you believe in God. Actually, there were several false prophets that were positive they were receiving messages from God, but the Bible teaches that they weren't. From my understanding the reason why they were duped was because they didn't understand the true teachings of the Bible. If you don't know how God communicates with his people then are you sure you will know when he communicates with you? All I'm saying is that knowledge about religions might possibly give you some assistance in what you're searching for. I was just suggesting that if religion is something you consider important, then maybe you might enjoy reading up on world religions. Maybe you'd find your sign in a book. I guess I read your post as more of an overall loss of religion and not just the loss of God. Not all religions have such a prominent God component.
HokeyReligions Posted May 27, 2005 Posted May 27, 2005 I understand what you are talking about. I was raised to be a Christian - mostly Baptist preachings/teachings, but I also attended most other Christian-based churches from time to time, with the exception of the Catholic church. The more I questioned the more indignant my family became because they couldn't understand why I would questions at all and would simply tell me that I had to have faith and follow the Bible and live the way they lived. It was very frustrating for me. Even many ministers I spoke with could not answer my questions to my satisfaction. A lot of the sociology and psychology that I studied seemed to envelope many religious beliefs and the act of believing in a deity at all was what caught my attention. It didn't answer my questions, but instead gave me a whole new set of questions with which to discuss with various clergy. It brought me closer to an understanding of what my family was saying, and what many ministers told me and the more I understood human behavior, the less I believed in a single God. My mother and husband are both Christians and they finally understand me a little and have quit pestering me, but will to a certain extent, talk with me about their beliefs. We don't preach at each other or try to convert each other. We have agreed to respect each others privacy in this matter. Maybe you could approach your Uncle that way---or as someone else said to tell him, it's between you and God and ask him if he would respect your desire to not talk about religion at each other. One thing that I was told by several different ministers was that God (referring to the Christian God) does not give signs-- He gave all the information in the Bible and its up to us to follow it. Our interpretations can be considered as signs, but they are our own, not from God. If someone wants a 'sign' from God they will find it within themselves. The ministers claimed that the 'signs' are always within us, its just up to us to recognize and accept them. Sociologists explain it similarly as part of 'human nature'. Its hazy at that point because many believe that 'human nature' comes from God. I am agnostic. I believe that they may be something to religious faith and that maybe there is or was some type of Supreme Being, but I don't believe that if He/She/It exists, He/She/It is anything like the way He/She/It is portrayed in religion. If so great a Being exists, I don't think that humans have the capacity to really understand or correctly convey what understanding we have. Pretty much I don't believe in Gods at all, but I'm open to the possibility that I may be wrong. There are times I would like to believe because so many find comfort in their belief during times of great strife and pain. When my kids passed I wanted to believe and now that my mother is close to death I would like to believe that there is something beyond this life and that we would all be reunited again---but I chalk that up to simple grief and the human need to hold on to whom we love. I'm glad that my mother believes because it gives her comfort and I may, at the end of my own life, find that 'sign' within me because I don't want to say good-bye -- but I still think that it will be a 'human' emotion and not something from God. I had a near-death experience last December. Complete out-of-body experience like we've heard in stories. I was standing above my body and could see myself laying there and I heard the doctors saying "no pulse" and "no blood pressure" etc., and it was very peaceful and serene and not at all frightening during those few moments. I remember that I felt like it wasn't the end, but simply a continuation of life but in a different space. I can't explain it well. If I were religious I might have said that it was like a pathway to God. It wasn't a tunnel, but it was bright -- not harsh like the lights in the ER room, just an overall bright, but the images were hazy. I was seeing things with my minds-eye and not my physical eyes. When my husband got to the hospital and rushed in I saw him and felt myself sort of whoosh-flow rapidly back into my body and I saw him from the gurney and not from above it and I suddenly felt the needles in my arms and the cold air and I opened my mouth and talked to him. That experience may have been just a chemical reaction in my brain and my inability to understand the technicalities of what my body was going through---or it could have been interpreted as a sign from God. I'm leaning toward the former. Good luck in your journey and with your relatives.
alphamale Posted May 27, 2005 Posted May 27, 2005 Originally posted by HokeyReligions The more I questioned the more indignant my family became because they couldn't understand why I would questions at all and would simply tell me that I had to have faith and follow the Bible and live the way they lived. It was very frustrating for me. HOKEY, I believe that in pre-WWII and during it the Germans had blind faith and belief in Hitler and his cronies also. Where did that get them? To this day, 65 yrs later, the Germans are still embarassed about what happend. Don't believe or follow blindly is the lesson here...ask questions!
quankanne Posted May 27, 2005 Posted May 27, 2005 I believe that in pre-WWII and during it the Germans had blind faith and belief in Hitler and his cronies also. Where did that get them? To this day, 65 yrs later, the Germans are still embarassed about what happened you're attempting to equate a very flesh and blood Hitler with God, who is Perfect? Or are you trying to humanize God? Either way, the equation just doesn't work. when people put their blind faith in concepts they can grasp – like religion (note, not spirituality) or politics or sex or money, there is ONLY room for error, because all that stuff is based on imperfect human nature. And it doesn't "get them" anywhere. you're right when you advise Naive and other posters to ask questions, because only then can one satisfy their need for knowlege, for information they can use. Most of us do that, question our beliefs, and it's perfectly all right because we go into that relationship with God more aware of it. think back to the Bible parable of the prodigal son: the father was thrilled that he had one son who was a devoted child who always did the right thing (someone who always had a strong belief), but he rejoiced when his wayward child came back into the fold after seeing things for himself and coming to the conclusion that his father's house was where he was meant to be (i.e., someone who was lost, but returned to the fold). Neither child was bad, they just had different ways of discovering their relationship with their father …
Mr Spock Posted May 28, 2005 Posted May 28, 2005 Originally posted by ~Naive~ My family is very religious, specially on my mother's side. On Sunday my Uncle kept pressuring me about going to church so I told him, "no thanks, I am divorced from God at this moment" well he took it like the worst thing!!!! He made a big deal and said that I had to pray immediately and ask God for forgiveness, but you know something? I am not feeling about God the same way I did before!!! I feel that those are all beliefs that my family has instilled in me but they are NOT my beliefs. As I grow older I force myself to believe all those things but it's not in me anymore and I am not scared to say it anymore. Before I would think it but I was too scared to say it because of what people might think. I am not going to say I don't believe in God but I will say I have my doubts!!! I can't believe that before I was too scared to say it aloud but not anymore. I keep in mind everything that I have learn from my family's religion as I grew up but I am not going to believe it until I get a sign!!! Try God without relgion....cuts through a lot of BS.
stargaze Posted May 28, 2005 Posted May 28, 2005 You will see a sign when you are ready for it not untilll then Originally posted by ~Naive~ My family is very religious, specially on my mother's side. On Sunday my Uncle kept pressuring me about going to church so I told him, "no thanks, I am divorced from God at this moment" well he took it like the worst thing!!!! He made a big deal and said that I had to pray immediately and ask God for forgiveness, but you know something? I am not feeling about God the same way I did before!!! I feel that those are all beliefs that my family has instilled in me but they are NOT my beliefs. As I grow older I force myself to believe all those things but it's not in me anymore and I am not scared to say it anymore. Before I would think it but I was too scared to say it because of what people might think. I am not going to say I don't believe in God but I will say I have my doubts!!! I can't believe that before I was too scared to say it aloud but not anymore. I keep in mind everything that I have learn from my family's religion as I grew up but I am not going to believe it until I get a sign!!!
BlockHead Posted May 28, 2005 Posted May 28, 2005 RecordProducer I believe that religions were supported by the evil rulers so that they can manipulate the masses easily (in the past). They are brain washers.What makes you think there are rulers? What makes you think they are evil assuming they exist? Is this prejudice? alphamale HOKEY, I believe that in pre-WWII and during it the Germans had blind faith and belief in Hitler and his cronies also. Where did that get them? To this day, 65 yrs later, the Germans are still embarassed about what happend.What did blind faith give to the Russians? Why do some people call Communism "the god that failed"? Do you know what a gulag is? ~Naive~ On Sunday my Uncle kept pressuring me about going to church so I told him, "no thanks, I am divorced from God at this moment" well he took it like the worst thing!!!!Do you see a difference between saying "I divorced my spouse" and "I don't believe in a spouse"? I see two mistakes. 1. Don't talk about the subject. 2. If you give in, don't tell him that you reject God. Tell him you aren't religious, or that you just don't believe. If you learned anything about Christianity, you should know that Satan rejected God.
westernxer Posted May 28, 2005 Posted May 28, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead I see two mistakes. 1. Don't talk about the subject. 2. If you give in, don't tell him that you reject God. Tell him you aren't religious, or that you just don't believe. I agree... just tone down your message and they'll accept you more. I always resort to telling my family I'm spiritual but not religious, and we leave it at that. They still pray in front of me and I spend Christmas and Easter with them, and we've never had a problem. After all, we're still family, always will be, and I appreciate them for playing such an important role in my life. If you learned anything about Christianity, you should know that Satan rejected God. Satan is cool... in a rebellious, rock star sort of way.
alphamale Posted May 28, 2005 Posted May 28, 2005 Originally posted by quankanne you're attempting to equate a very flesh and blood Hitler with God, who is Perfect? but QUANK how do u know God even exists, let alone it is perfect? Cause you have been TOLD about its existence and that it is perfect. None of us have any evidence. I do have fairly good evidence tthat Hitler existed. That is what I am saying here, question everything. Maybe God exists but is imperfect, maybe God does not exist at all. Maaybe God is a queen bee. Whatever? My analogy was that believing in someone or something without question in very detrimental. Or are you trying to humanize God? Either way, the equation just doesn't work. Maybe and why does it not work?
westernxer Posted May 28, 2005 Posted May 28, 2005 Originally posted by quankanne Or are you trying to humanize God? Either way, the equation just doesn't work. We already have humanized God. He even has a gender and a full range of emotions. It's called anthropomorphism. Just an observation, that's all.
alphamale Posted May 28, 2005 Posted May 28, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer We already have humanized God. He even has a gender and a full range of emotions. It's called anthropomorphism. Just an observation, that's all. right WEST....and emotions are a very human quality would not you say?? I mean, i've never seen the TV go into a jealous rage or the gardenias start weeping over the magnolia's demise!
Author Naive Posted May 30, 2005 Author Posted May 30, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead If you learned anything about Christianity, you should know that Satan rejected God. Yes but I don't know if I believe in him either so that does not relly matter to me. I don't think I believe in anything the Bible says.
Author Naive Posted May 30, 2005 Author Posted May 30, 2005 Originally posted by Mr Spock Try God without relgion....cuts through a lot of BS. How is that Spock?
BlockHead Posted May 30, 2005 Posted May 30, 2005 westernxer Satan is cool... in a rebellious, rock star sort of way.Why don't you call Hitler, Stalin, and every killer, rapist, child molester, and sadist cool?
Humbledog Posted May 30, 2005 Posted May 30, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead Why don't you call Hitler, Stalin, and every killer, rapist, child molester, and sadist cool? Don't forget Jim & Tammy Baker
Humbledog Posted May 30, 2005 Posted May 30, 2005 Originally posted by Mr Spock Try God without relgion....cuts through a lot of BS. I'M guessing Spock was referring to hypocrisy in organized religion!!
westernxer Posted May 30, 2005 Posted May 30, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead Why don't you call Hitler, Stalin, and every killer, rapist, child molester, and sadist cool? Got you!
Mr Spock Posted June 2, 2005 Posted June 2, 2005 Naive, you can believe in God but not follow any particular organized religion. Live your life according to what you believe is right and wrong (this works, because most of us aren't sociopaths). You don't HAVE to go to church to pay respects, especially since God is supposed to be all around us. Churches are man made structures.
BlockHead Posted June 2, 2005 Posted June 2, 2005 Mr Spock Live your life according to what you believe is right and wrong (this works, because most of us aren't sociopaths).So you are still green-lighting pshychopaths. Who gets to decide who the psychopaths are? I am pretty sure child molestors believe that molesting children is a good thing. I don't think morality, and right and wrong should be relative. Mr Spock Churches are man made structures.They are also a religious body of people.
westernxer Posted June 2, 2005 Posted June 2, 2005 Churches are also symbolic... I love looking at churches.
TUDOR Posted June 2, 2005 Posted June 2, 2005 I think churches and the bible are a tool for those who are looking for some guidance or support in their faith. If you are strong in your faith then you may not rely on them as much or at all but other's may need in them in their life. And there are those that are strong in their faith that are there to help others stay strong and that is what the function of the church people do. Its like an AA meeting for faith except in positive way. Myself, I don't know what I think. I think the bible has great lessons but is grossly over used as fact and point of reference when in my opinion it is still just a tool for faith and not an absolute. People that confine their faith to the ways of bible limit themselves because it was meant to be a guideline and nothing more. The church, well I don't need to the church to have my faith or a relationship with God or what ever greater being their is. I do see the value in the church as a supportive roll for those weak in their faith and place to come together and worship together. I just try to live a good life and make good decisions and I think that is what the church and bible encourage.
Author Naive Posted June 2, 2005 Author Posted June 2, 2005 Originally posted by Mr Spock Naive, you can believe in God but not follow any particular organized religion. Live your life according to what you believe is right and wrong (this works, because most of us aren't sociopaths). You don't HAVE to go to church to pay respects, especially since God is supposed to be all around us. Churches are man made structures. That's exactly what my dad used to tell me!
quankanne Posted June 2, 2005 Posted June 2, 2005 but QUANK how do u know God even exists, let alone it is perfect? Cause you have been TOLD about its existence and that it is perfect. None of us have any evidence. I do have fairly good evidence tthat Hitler existed. That is what I am saying here, question everything. Maybe God exists but is imperfect, maybe God does not exist at all. Maaybe God is a queen bee. Whatever? My analogy was that believing in someone or something without question in very detrimental. quote: Or are you trying to humanize God? Either way, the equation just doesn't work. Maybe and why does it not work? if you're looking for proof for a world outside me, I cannot give it, because nothing but nothing I say or do can "prove" God to someone else. But that doesn't mean I don't believe he isn't real or that he doesn't exist. About him being perfect, yes, as children little Catholics are catechized in the theology that "God is perfect; we are made in his image" and we therefore have the capability of being spiritually pure -- or as pure as a human can be. humanizing God: as I said, it doesn't work because it's a very subjective exercise to humanize something. You're looking for something that you can recognize, but not everyone assigns the same value to your recognition of him. On top of that, the human mind, as intelligent as it is, falls incredibly short of comprehending the Divine. lol, if we could do that, then there really wouldn't be a need for a Divine Creator. But thank goodness, it's not to that point! naive -- seek God if this is where your journey takes you, and know that "church" is just a group of like-minded believers on similar journeys. That's why people form a fellowship: they're seeking support and encouragement in their journey.
Mr Spock Posted June 4, 2005 Posted June 4, 2005 Originally posted by BlockHead So you are still green-lighting pshychopaths. Who gets to decide who the psychopaths are? I am pretty sure child molestors believe that molesting children is a good thing. I don't think morality, and right and wrong should be relative. They are also a religious body of people. The law??
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