Author JasmineJones Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 And for me, a female multi-dater is sort of like accepting a job where they expect me and several others to work three months without pay, competing against each other, while they assess which one is the most naive and gullible. You sound bitter. But so do a lot of guys I guess.
siriusp Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 You post about this guy a lot in many threads. Yes you are right. It is causing me a lot of confusion. I am relating my experiences to the posts but maybe they are not useful. I find all this 'dating' business very confusing and don't seem to be any closer to finding any peace after three months of 'torture'. I think many people are going off topic on this thread though - the main point I saw in the OP was that he assumed that she wouldn't have other options - that sounds like a put down to me. What else does she really need to consider? To bother with someone like that or not? Then again - maybe it's not so simple. Who am I to give any kind of advice. 1
BlueIris Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 If you were the one multi-dating and intended to continue doing so, then why would you initiate the talk? That seems strange. You wanted to make sure he knew he was in a competitive situation, eh? ... So why did you initiate the talk? Making sure he realized this was a competitive environment to trigger his insecurities, jealousy and see if you could get him to deliver more supply? Please don't tell us you were concerned for his feelings. That much we know don't need a narrative to understand. Some people are just being honest and open and don't have devious or manipulative intentions. 3
salparadise Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 You sound bitter. But so do a lot of guys I guess. Intolerant. with options. 1
salparadise Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Some people are just being honest and open and don't have devious or manipulative intentions. Yet they exhibit devious and manipulative behavior. Odd isn't it? 2
siriusp Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Yet they exhibit devious and manipulative behavior. Odd isn't it? Not sure if we are talking about the same thread... but I saw absolutely nothing devious and manipulative about the OP's post. There was a misunderstanding about each other. That's it. It is not pleasant but it happens. 1
salparadise Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Not sure if we are talking about the same thread... but I saw absolutely nothing devious and manipulative about the OP's post. There was a misunderstanding about each other. That's it. It is not pleasant but it happens. This was just a philosophical rebuttal to BlueIris' comment. Not really directed at the OP. For clarification, I wasn't implying that the OP was intentionally and maliciously manipulative. I didn't even use that word- it was blueiris' word. However, I did challenge her (OP) to examine her motives. One of the key tenants in transactional analysis is that when two people interact an interrogatory has an expected/desired response and a range of acceptable responses. Much of our true motivation exists in the subconscious, while we may have different apparent motivations in the conscious realm, which are usually rationalized, but actually intended to elicit a desired response. My guess is that the OPs true motivation for informing him that she is multi-dating is neatly aligned with the motivation for multi-dating in the first place. I was interested in seeing if she had much/any awareness of what that may be. She chose to ignore the question in that post and then called me bitter for offering a parallel analogy to the one she made about men without options and job-seeking. I really don't find this thread interesting enough to be spending time/energy explaining what I meant.
Author JasmineJones Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 Not sure if we are talking about the same thread... but I saw absolutely nothing devious and manipulative about the OP's post. There was a misunderstanding about each other. That's it. It is not pleasant but it happens. You're exactly right. The "talk" I initiated was a kind of "so we've been on quite a few dates now, what are your thoughts about things? What are you looking for?" etc. I wasn't asking him to become exclusive, for obvious reasons. There'd been a high number of occasions where he had started to say something and then sat there blushing and giggling like a young girl. It was clear on those occasions that he wanted to say something, possibly to ask about the status of relationship, but didn't have the strength to just be blunt and say it or ask it. So after him doing this repeatedly I decided to bring it up.
jen1447 Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 He's claiming he feels a deep connection with me and he's still saying he wants to pursue an exclusive relationship. He seemed to see dating just once a week as normal. Sure, he likes me. I don't believe he's as crazy about me as he claims to be. I think much of this is about the fact that he doesn't get much female attention in general and now that he's reeled someone in to a certain extent he's not keen to let go, because he doesn't rate his chances of finding another woman he's attracted to who will go out with him. To be clear, what I meant specifically (and again I know it's odd that I'd tell you what happened on your date but that's how we roll here ) is that yeah, it sounds like he was into you, but the connection or spark part didn't exist and he made that up in an attempt to 'lock you down' so to speak. 1
Author JasmineJones Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 I agree with you, it was a pretty weird thing to say. Maybe he was looking at it through his own lens -- he doesn't have other options so he assumes nobody else does? Yes you are right. It is causing me a lot of confusion. I am relating my experiences to the posts but maybe they are not useful. I find all this 'dating' business very confusing and don't seem to be any closer to finding any peace after three months of 'torture'. I think many people are going off topic on this thread though - the main point I saw in the OP was that he assumed that she wouldn't have other options - that sounds like a put down to me. What else does she really need to consider? To bother with someone like that or not? Then again - maybe it's not so simple. Who am I to give any kind of advice. 1
BlueIris Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Yet they exhibit devious and manipulative behavior. Odd isn't it? The words devious or manipulative were conclusions from your conclusion: “You wanted to make sure he knew he was in a competitive situation, eh?” “…through your neediness lens because it wasn't the validating response you desired.” “Making sure he realized this was a competitive environment to trigger his insecurities, jealousy and see if you could get him to deliver more supply? Please don't tell us you were concerned for his feelings. That much we know don't need a narrative to understand.” This set of assumptions is bizarre to me, very pessimistic and damning, a bit paranoid. But ok, some people do view other people that way. To my knowledge, I’ve never dated someone who assumed we were exclusive. Men who did want to get serious with me told me and talked about it very easily. I think you're fine, OP. The reaction from that guy was a bad sign regardless of what he assumed. It's actually good that he displayed his snotty passive-aggression so you could avoid getting more deeply involved. So it's a win. 2
GoodOnPaper Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 So what is the solution? For the struggling guys? I don't know -- I wouldn't be on LS if I did. Broad desirability, no matter how it's obtained, seems to be the key to achieving fulfillment in the dating/sex/relationship world. For those of us guys who don't have that, the only personal power left -- at least for those that didn't married themselves off -- is to just walk away from the whole thing. But that's kind of like a broke man asking for a pre-nup. Does it really matter? 1
Author JasmineJones Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 The words devious or manipulative were conclusions from your conclusion: “You wanted to make sure he knew he was in a competitive situation, eh?” “…through your neediness lens because it wasn't the validating response you desired.” “Making sure he realized this was a competitive environment to trigger his insecurities, jealousy and see if you could get him to deliver more supply? Please don't tell us you were concerned for his feelings. That much we know don't need a narrative to understand.” This set of assumptions is bizarre to me, very pessimistic and damning, a bit paranoid. But ok, some people do view other people that way. To my knowledge, I’ve never dated someone who assumed we were exclusive. Men who did want to get serious with me told me and talked about it very easily. I think you're fine, OP. The reaction from that guy was a bad sign regardless of what he assumed. It's actually good that he displayed his snotty passive-aggression so you could avoid getting more deeply involved. So it's a win. I agree. It's a wildly over the top, embittered response lol
Jefoo Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 So what is the solution? Nature will take its course and a part of it is there is not someone for everyone. Some people are more desirable than others. When someone tries to date out of their league the other partner will have the power and a power imbalance leads to friction. The most desirable people naturally desire others who are just as desirable. The most desirable people frequently multi date. The people in the middle can get partners but rarely enough for multi dating to even be an option. The people on the bottom will be lucky to even have an opportunity with even the least desirable of the opposite gender. It's the way things are and those who complain about it make it even worse for themselves. 1
Author JasmineJones Posted November 5, 2015 Author Posted November 5, 2015 Nature will take its course and a part of it is there is not someone for everyone. Some people are more desirable than others. When someone tries to date out of their league the other partner will have the power and a power imbalance leads to friction. The most desirable people naturally desire others who are just as desirable. The most desirable people frequently multi date. The people in the middle can get partners but rarely enough for multi dating to even be an option. The people on the bottom will be lucky to even have an opportunity with even the least desirable of the opposite gender. It's the way things are and those who complain about it make it even worse for themselves. This really is true.
katiegrl Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 This has been causing me so much trouble lately. I felt a great connection with someone a few months ago and I really thought he did too - he said so and he seemed to be very happy etc. but then he ignores me? I am so confused - maybe my judgement is so poor. I always thought I could feel if the other person was on the same page. I am doubting my own sanity because of this. I feel angry and frustrated that I could mis-judge the situation so badly and am starting to wonder if there is something wrong with me. I was going through my life very happy - until this happened. So even with open communication - things are not always clear. Not only did I feel we had a connection he said it too but that's not enough apparently. siriusp ...pls stop beating yourself up over this. He very well may have felt the chemistry and connection, but ghosted because of his own issues with intimacy and commitment. Not that you wanted commitment right off the bat, but often times when certain men with these types of issues feel that emotional click with woman, their issues, fears and anxieties come to surface and they're off and running.. Often without an explanation, which leaves the woman confused and scratching her head wondering what the hell happened! They want a relationship but when they meet someone who presents that opportunity, they become so anxious, they prefer to just ignore the whole thing (and her) .... This may be what happened with this guy -- the popular term for what he suffers from is commitment phobia and/or fear of intimacy. Basically it's a fear of becoming to emotionally close to a woman, and when they feel it, again their anxieties surface and they're off. It's fight or flight. And in your case with this guy, it was FLIGHT. Hope that helped... Feel better... 1
salparadise Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 This set of assumptions is bizarre to me, very pessimistic and damning, a bit paranoid. But ok, some people do view other people that way. I'll cop to being a bit cynical. She labeled him as passive-aggressive, but she didn't give examples for us to judge ourselves. It's entirely possible that his response was delivered one way (assertively) and interpreted another. I think this is all just tangental to the differing philosophies on multi-dating, and perhaps with a bit of gender bias. If she was singing a sad song about this same thing being done to her, then the guy would be called (names- not sure what words are allowable- baseball team member) and the women would be telling her how it's unfair that he acted interested, drew her in and then on date #5 informed her that she's one of however many. But when the genders are flipped it's all ok and the guy get labeled passive-aggressive for being upset. 3
insert_name Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I'll cop to being a bit cynical. She labeled him as passive-aggressive, but she didn't give examples for us to judge ourselves. It's entirely possible that his response was delivered one way (assertively) and interpreted another. I think this is all just tangental to the differing philosophies on multi-dating, and perhaps with a bit of gender bias. If she was singing a sad song about this same thing being done to her, then the guy would be called (names- not sure what words are allowable- baseball team member) and the women would be telling her how it's unfair that he acted interested, drew her in and then on date #5 informed her that she's one of however many. But when the genders are flipped it's all ok and the guy get labeled passive-aggressive for being upset. That is because passive aggression is a celebrated quality in women whereas it is reviled in men. I am surprised no-one has mentioned the irony of OP not being amused by this guy for his passive aggression and then going on the internet to complain about it and call him a beta! I would hope her dislike of passive aggression would mean that she has actually told him he is a beta to his face...no? Ps: inb4 OP doles out the 'bitter' canard at me... 1
jay1983 Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Alpha man, beta man, blah blah blah. He's only halfway into you OP, that's way he's so passive. His ego was bruised enough to send you the messages, but he doesn't care that much. Go with one of your other options and for the love of god, stop analyzing every freaking thing they say or do. 1
BlueIris Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) I'll cop to being a bit cynical. She labeled him as passive-aggressive, but she didn't give examples for us to judge ourselves. It's entirely possible that his response was delivered one way (assertively) and interpreted another. That's always the case. Rarely do both parties post. I think this is all just tangental to the differing philosophies on multi-dating, and perhaps with a bit of gender bias. If she was singing a sad song about this same thing being done to her, then the guy would be called (names- not sure what words are allowable- baseball team member) and the women would be telling her how it's unfair that he acted interested, drew her in and then on date #5 informed her that she's one of however many. But when the genders are flipped it's all ok and the guy get labeled passive-aggressive for being upset. I'll agree with you that that is cynical. I don't do that- hold the genders to different standards. Most people I know don't. That's gender-war and poor-me thinking. Edited November 5, 2015 by BlueIris
RedRobin Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 It does actually. Unattractive people will struggle to get one person to date them, let alone several. The most highly desired people I know (men and women) could get a bazillion dates if they wanted them. But they don't need them to validate their self worth. They are very selective about whom they choose to date, in fact. And you would never, ever hear them say anything negative about someone they dated if it didn't work out. There is a wide gulf between the typical multidater who manufactures 'options' via OLD or dishonesty, and the people who actually have options, but have the decisiveness, good judgement, and character not to need them. .
LoveRefreshed Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Been reading for a while. This Sal paradise guy is right spot on. One thing I've noticed is how there was emphasis placed on the fact they haven't been sexual. Five dates in isn't a time to bring up the fact you are multidating unless you see it progressing and leading into emotional connections or going no where. The former you bring it up if you're interested in exclusivity.. the latter you can just end it. The motive of telling him was seemingly your passive way of telling him you're really not interested or to manipulate him into playing his hand. Either way, it was a beta girl move yourself, well played homie. I am begging for the next thread to start where the multi dater is a guy sleeping around. As long as he never said he wasn't multi dating... all's fair.. right ladies? I mean.. she should assume that if he's quality then he's got quantity. 4
Jefoo Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 That is because passive aggression is a celebrated quality in women whereas it is reviled in men. I am surprised no-one has mentioned the irony of OP not being amused by this guy for his passive aggression and then going on the internet to complain about it and call him a beta! I would hope her dislike of passive aggression would mean that she has actually told him he is a beta to his face...no? Ps: inb4 OP doles out the 'bitter' canard at me... Women aren't men. Get used to it. Passive aggression, crying, whining, laziness will be judged harsher in men. Being overweight and being unattractive will be judged harsher for women. 1
Jefoo Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 This really is true. It is true and its it annoying when someone makes the claim that they are entitled to a girlfriend or boyfriend. No one is entitled to anything. 1
BlueIris Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I am begging for the next thread to start where the multi dater is a guy sleeping around. As long as he never said he wasn't multi dating... all's fair.. right ladies? To me, yes. I don't think someone's dating only me (before we've talked and expressed our feelings and intention to be together). Why would he be? But he certainly isn't sleeping with me. He might sleep around with others, I guess. If he’s into that, he probably wouldn’t be interested in me! People do it different ways and that’s fine, good. We date to find out if someone is a good match for us. I could only be with someone who appreciates that people are different and takes time to discover how someone is before attaching to her. 1
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