Author scratch Posted May 24, 2005 Author Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by Pocky I wouldn't get irritated if someone did ask for a number and didn't call. Interesting. That seems to really annoy most women, moreso than if he doesn't ask for the number at all.
sarah12 Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by scratch This cannot be the case, because given the fact pattern in the original post, no woman would rather have the guy be "nice." So, they all know better. I said this usually applies to the young and naive ones. They don't really know any better. I'd say 20-21 and under.
browneyes22 Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by sarah12 I have two points to make about this: 1. Some women just are 'too nice' and don't know that they are playing the game. These women are usually young and naive, and think that it's 'too mean' to say no to a guy. They have trouble saying no because they don't want to hurt the guy's feelings. These women are usually classified as a tease or a flirt without even realizing what they are doing. Again, these women are usually young and inexperienced, can't really blame them for it sometimes, they'll learn in time. I did. 2. Sometimes, when a women gives her answer straight up, the guy still doesn't leave her alone (at least in my experience). I have told guys who have asked me out or even guys who tried to talk to me at a bar, that I'm simply "not interested, but thank you for asking." The response I get to that is "that's it?? wtf??" complete with some bitch-bashing to their friends about it afterwards. So it seems like there's no win-win situation, either way it's still rejection and it hurts. I agree with what you are saying here. Perhaps my own experiences are unique to these situations. I have met girls in category one above, but the flirting goes very far...well past just politely smiling and eye contact...way past. Then...nothing. That's why I think it's a tease. Sure they are young and naive...but, they do know what they are doing when they flirt...they are raising the bar of interest both ways. Perhaps they realize they have gone too far when it's too late. Doesn't make it any better from the guy's perpective 'cause we'll get a glimpse of what it may be like to date this girl...then it all stops. It's a dissapointment.
Pocky Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by scratch Interesting. That seems to really annoy most women, moreso than if he doesn't ask for the number at all. Eh. It's really something I find rather flippant. There are many reasons why someone may not call and not all of them are because they duped the person into thinking that they were interested and then didn't follow through with expectations. Getting all worked up over someone not calling you when you tried to pick them up seems a little too intense for me. It's a telephone number of someone you don't even know. I'd just move onto the next person.
sarah12 Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by browneyes22 I agree with what you are saying here. Perhaps my own experiences are unique to these situations. I have met girls in category one above, but the flirting goes very far...well past just politely smiling and eye contact...way past. Then...nothing. That's why I think it's a tease. Sure they are young and naive...but, they do know what they are doing when they flirt...they are raising the bar of interest both ways. Perhaps they realize they have gone too far when it's too late. Doesn't make it any better from the guy's perpective 'cause we'll get a glimpse of what it may be like to date this girl...then it all stops. It's a dissapointment. I should also add that women in category one could have had some bad relationship experience and so a major defense mechanism is to heavily flirt, because she truly believes that the guy won't want her anyways (due to guys in the past who treated her so badly, thereby giving her low self-esteem) so they'll flirt just for fun, thinking the guy has the same mindset. Also, a girl won't heavily flirt with a guy she is completely uninterested in, even the naive ones. There are always signs when a girl wants 'out.' i.e. pulling away with a friend, saying she needs to get a drink, go to the bathroom, etc.
browneyes22 Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by sarah12 I should also add that women in category one could have had some bad relationship experience and so a major defense mechanism is to heavily flirt, because she truly believes that the guy won't want her anyways (due to guys in the past who treated her so badly, thereby giving her low self-esteem) so they'll flirt just for fun, thinking the guy has the same mindset. Also, a girl won't heavily flirt with a guy she is completely uninterested in, even the naive ones. There are always signs when a girl wants 'out.' i.e. pulling away with a friend, saying she needs to get a drink, go to the bathroom, etc. Yes...i've considered that some women i've encountered may have had poor experiences in the past. How is flirting a defense mechanism though? Could you elaborate on this 'cause I think this may be something i'm missing. Do these girls need to flirt to feel wanted 'cause they weren't wanted by their former bf's? As far as the pulling out signs are concerned...i've have been given these and thought it was over. But the flirting would resume after I thought they wanted out in some cases.
sarah12 Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by browneyes22 Yes...i've considered that some women i've encountered may have had poor experiences in the past. How is flirting a defense mechanism thought. Could you elaborate on this 'cause I think this may be something i'm missing. Do these girls need to flirt to feel wanted 'cause they weren't wanted by their former bf's? They flirt because they want the attention, and they will tease the guy because it gives them some power in knowing that the guy wants them, without having to commit to them. It's almost like, these women think they can throw it back to the male species -- "I know you're capable of hurting me and treating me badly like my ex(s) did, so I'm not gonna let you do that, but I'll take your attention." They feel that guys have screwed with them in the past, and so they likely don't believe that truly committed and loving relationships exist, so why bother trying have one when you can have fun being single, flirting with guys, without having to go through the BS they went through with the ex(s), hence the defense mechanism. As women with these types of experiences get older, the defense is just to politely decline an offer for a date, and it gets harder and harder for the men to break into that shell or wall that she's put up for so long. As far as the pulling out signs are concerned...i've have given these and thought it was over. But the flirting would resume in some cases. You'll have to elaborate on this.
browneyes22 Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by sarah12 You'll have to elaborate on this. Sure...i mean in one case this girl basically told me to leave her alone for the moment...like, I just want to be here by myself type of vibe. So I left her alone, thought the interest was gone. Then she came back about a week later flirting again. Now that I think about it, it's always hot and cold with this one. Except the hot was a little more intense than the cold. The hot was hotter than the cold was colder...does this make sense?
sarah12 Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 does this make sense? No. You'll have to elaborate a bit more. What was the context of the situation? How did you meet her? Where did she want to be 'by herself'? Did you actually date her? Or waiting to ask her out at the right moment? What kind of hot and cold things did she say? Basically, you'll have to give the full story.
tokyo Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by scratch But at least you're now admitting why women give out their number when not interested - because PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO ANSWER DIFFICULT QUESTIONS, not out of a sense of politeness or decourm. Have you ever been in an awkward situation, because of being to honest and crossing an invisible line? Originally posted by browneyes22 Again...Kooky is most likely a really nice girl. But if she wants to continute to be polite, in these situations she has to stop giving out her number when she is not interested. I am nice until someone bugs me with the same stuff over and over again. In order to show you guys that I am capable of saying no and laying the facts on the table, ask me now for my phone number. Pleeeeaaase.
browneyes22 Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by kooky Have you ever been in an awkward situation, because of being to honest and crossing an invisible line? I am nice until someone bugs me with the same stuff over and over again. In order to show you guys that I am capable of saying no and laying the facts on the table, ask me now for my phone number. Pleeeeaaase. I'm not so sure your worth the effort.
tokyo Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by browneyes22 I'm not so sure your worth the effort. Hey, that was my line for you.
noname Posted May 24, 2005 Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by sarah12 I have two points to make about this: 1. Some women just are 'too nice' and don't know that they are playing the game. These women are usually young and naive, and think that it's 'too mean' to say no to a guy. They have trouble saying no because they don't want to hurt the guy's feelings. These women are usually classified as a tease or a flirt without even realizing what they are doing. Again, these women are usually young and inexperienced, can't really blame them for it sometimes, they'll learn in time. I did. 2. Sometimes, when a women gives her answer straight up, the guy still doesn't leave her alone (at least in my experience). I have told guys who have asked me out or even guys who tried to talk to me at a bar, that I'm simply "not interested, but thank you for asking." The response I get to that is "that's it?? wtf??" complete with some bitch-bashing to their friends about it afterwards. So it seems like there's no win-win situation, either way it's still rejection and it hurts. i agree with of both points. however, i think that although age and experience can be factors, it is buy no means an exact science. some people learn early in life. some never learn. age has a lot less to do with it than maturity. some people never learn from their mistakes. this is partly their fault, but conditioning and experience can stand as mental blocks. cases in point. women dislike being led on just as much as men. however, many decide to be polite because they fear that rejection is worse than kindness. this feeling is strong enough to make them do something that they would not like done to themselves. guess what? many men do it too. bottom line is that people are more concerned with adhering to certain learned rules of engaement than they are with treating people how they would want to treated. the same forces have a lot to do with your second point. men are often confused by what we learn (or think we learn from women). some guys are just a-holes of course. but tenacity can come from preconceived notion of how women should respond. if a guy is contstantly given numbers from women who are trying to be polite and he runs into someone who resists that behavior, he may perceive that as being "impolite". there are other factors such as the confusing argument that "women love the chase" and that type of BS. i have heard many of my friends say a woman's "no" just means "not right now". there are a lot of other factors (none of which justify somebody treating someone like a b--tch unless they are really being one) but the bottom line is that the sexes are pretty confused about each other and i'm sure you'll agree that either one of them sending confusing messages doesn't help in the least. and there can be plenty of a win win situations with the right combination, if we are interested in learning, applying what we learn, and treating people with the same respect that we expect from them. and that is what we are here for hopefully...
sarah12 Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 if a guy is contstantly given numbers from women who are trying to be polite and he runs into someone who resists that behavior, he may perceive that as being "impolite". I think men and women should just take what the other person says as the truth and let it be. That's why I'm always straight up about things, because you can't argue against the truth. If I say to a guy "I'm not interested," what can he really do about that? You can't help the way you feel. may perceive that as being "impolite". there are other factors such as the confusing argument that "women love the chase" and that type of BS. i have heard many of my friends say a woman's "no" just means "not right now". there are a lot of other factors (none of which justify somebody treating someone like a b--tch unless they are really being one) but the bottom line is that the sexes are pretty confused about each other and i'm sure you'll agree that either one of them sending confusing messages doesn't help in the least. You're right. A lot of men, the over-confident ones I'd say, think that when a woman says no, she doesn't really mean it. This gets dangerous because I've been in situations where I've said no to sex, and the guy didn't think I really meant it, and being young and naive, I went along with it eventually because I was too scared to push him away. Bottom line is, if a woman says no, always take that as really meaning no. I don't know many girls who play that game where she really means 'not right now'. and there can be plenty of a win win situations with the right combination The only situation is where both the sexes are mutually interested in the other.
noname Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by sarah12 I think men and women should just take what the other person says as the truth and let it be. That's why I'm always straight up about things, because you can't argue against the truth. If I say to a guy "I'm not interested," what can he really do about that? You can't help the way you feel. beautiful. and that is the point of these threads. people appreciate honesty a lot more than we give ourselves credit for. keep it up... You're right. A lot of men, the over-confident ones I'd say, think that when a woman says no, she doesn't really mean it. This gets dangerous because I've been in situations where I've said no to sex, and the guy didn't think I really meant it, and being young and naive, I went along with it eventually because I was too scared to push him away. Bottom line is, if a woman says no, always take that as really meaning no. I don't know many girls who play that game where she really means 'not right now'. sorry you had to go through this. and i hope that it didn't take a big toll on you emotionally. some guys are just plain stupid. and that further reinforces the point. some men frequently witness this behavior and if they are never called to task. (by the way it is none of my business whether you did or not, so don't feel compelled to open up about it... i am not trying to get info nor am i your judge) in turn they wrongly process that experience as "if i keep forcing the issue, i'ma get paid..." and they try it on the next woman. what's worse is they teach their peers that this is the way to go, because it keeps working. no excuse of course because people should now right from wrong, but experience and perception can make people's concepts of right, wrong, and reality askew. oh no. don't get me wrong. i didn't mean that i believe in that. i take no for no. and you are probably right when it comes to sex. no means no when it comes to sexual activity. i am just talking about dating and playing hard to get and being coy and the effects those experience have on people. and i know plenty of women, many of which are my friends that just attribute a little dishonesty as part of the chase. The only situation is where both the sexes are mutually interested in the other. absolutely. you are so right and i'm glad you get it. mutual interest and saying yes or no when you really mean it. and that is exactly what we are talking about and it seems to be going right over some peoples heads...
sarah12 Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 It didn't take a big toll on me emotionally, I've just learned to grow up a lot from the experiences I've had. It's unfortunate that men and women feel the need to play head games. If everyone just said what they meant all the time, we'd have a lot less confusion in the dating world. I'm so sick and tired of guys who aren't mature enough to be honest and decent, that I haven't even really dated at all in the last year or two (ok some of that is attributed to the fact that I'm picky as well). Being single and in my early 20's, I feel like I'm wasting away a good looking bod here!
noname Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by sarah12 It didn't take a big toll on me emotionally, I've just learned to grow up a lot from the experiences I've had. It's unfortunate that men and women feel the need to play head games. If everyone just said what they meant all the time, we'd have a lot less confusion in the dating world. I'm so sick and tired of guys who aren't mature enough to be honest and decent, that I haven't even really dated at all in the last year or two (ok some of that is attributed to the fact that I'm picky as well). Being single and in my early 20's, I feel like I'm wasting away a good looking bod here! that's good to hear/read... no rush. keep being picky. don't know much about you but you seem to have a decent head on you shoulders so far. and it feels better when you actually get something you like. plus being in your early twenties is hardly wasting away... good luck...
browneyes22 Posted May 25, 2005 Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by sarah12 It didn't take a big toll on me emotionally, I've just learned to grow up a lot from the experiences I've had. It's unfortunate that men and women feel the need to play head games. If everyone just said what they meant all the time, we'd have a lot less confusion in the dating world. I'm so sick and tired of guys who aren't mature enough to be honest and decent, that I haven't even really dated at all in the last year or two (ok some of that is attributed to the fact that I'm picky as well). Being single and in my early 20's, I feel like I'm wasting away a good looking bod here! sarah12...hit the gym and preserve that hot bod for our sake. Looks like you are quite a catch...noname is correct. Keep on being picky. I just hope I have a successful dating life before I lose my hair .
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