I don't mind going slow but... [UPDATE: Worried about gf...]

[SwordofFlame]

Why is she concerned about the pace of the relationship when it can't possibly go any slower than it is now?

[MrDuck]

It could be that she knows that you havent been a good boyfriend in the past and might do the same to her and are being nice now just because you havent had sex yet?

I'd hope she knows me better than that, and she didn't know me back then, we weren't even living in the same country.

Its not everyday that one comes across the right person.Sometimes its late in life but even then one must grab the opportunity because you never know !

Very true!

 

 

OP- do NOT take the advice your being given. This bread crumb bull**** insinuates that she is playing games, but it's very possible that is not what she's doing at all. Read what I wrote on the first page. I never, ever played games with these guys..I was just genuinely not ready. Even now that I'm no longer a virgin, my views on sex haven't changed.

No I don't believe she's playing games. She's just not the type to do that.

So yeah, just please talk to her like a rational adult. Don't pull these ultimatums or mind games. If you're dying for sex, then she may be too reserved for you. However, it seems you're just genuinely wondering why she doesn't want to have sex yet.

No its defo the latter. I've waited this long I can wait. But if i'm doing something wrong then obviously id like to address that

 

 

Here is how I see it... you've only been dating 5 months, so yeah maybe it isn't that slow for not having had sex... BUT you saw that much of each other for 2 years prior to that. Even though you weren't dating it still counts for something. You guys aren't getting to know each other anymore, she knows you as well as she can. If she isn't sure about her feelings about you yet, you need to pin her down and see if she's wasting your time.

Right this is true. And we work in what is an active, physical, sometimes stressful, job which requires strong team work. There's no putting on an act day after day in that kind of environment so she knows who I am day in day out.

[Glitters]

Look, you are going to drive yourself crazy by thinking on so many aspects when the real reason could be far from what any of us could know.

 

I guess she must be thinking as to how to tell when you ask her.Since you both have a good connection, then belive me ,she must have got the vibe from you.So, the nerves are both ways, not just you.

 

If she has a good head on her shoulders, she knows what's happening but maybe, just like you, doesnt want to ruin something that has potential.

[MrDuck]

I don't mean to sound rude MrDuck but you are like her best gay friend, except that you are straight.

Haha ouch!

 

Sorry my friend, I don't think she is romantically interested in you. Seriously I have made out and groped women on first dates more that you have done in 5 months.

Yep, me too. I've slept with girls on the first date. I don't really rate it as an accomplishment. Did they love me? Certainly not. Did I care for them? Not particularly. It was a bit of fun, nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

Most people would be having sex by now. I would be game if she was. But sex and love are different things, and I'm at a different point in my life now, I have a son, and I would pick my girlfriend over any of those ONS's or holiday romances time and time again.

 

If she was really interested in you in a romantic or more than a platonic way, the two of you would be more intimate than a bit of soft making out.

I also agree with salparadise, I think she is unsure of you and may be using you as a place holder until someone who really does it for her comes along and sweeps her off of her feet. When this guy comes along, her walls will come down and she won't be taking it so slow.

Maybe your right, maybe she isn't into be any more. Who am I to say that isn't a possibility.

But she wouldn't cheat, I believe that with every piece of me.

And she hasn't needed a place holder since she was 17, why would she now? She is certainly, certainly, not the type of girl to "need" a boyfriend. She'd like you to think she didn't 'need' anyone. She's as straight up as they come, if she likes you you can be there, if she doesn't, jog on. She wouldn't want me around as an accessory.

[kismetkismet]

You seem very reasonable, and since she doesn't 'always have a boyfriend' and was the initial one to express interest, it doesn't seem like a matter of convenience or needing a place holder. You just need to buck up and talk to her about it. Having an open line of communication around sex is super important, it's important to know each other's needs and boundaries.. and you can't just figure those things out on body language alone. You've been dating for quite a while.. not being able to talk about anything around sex isn't a very good thing. How is your communication on other difficult to discuss issues?

[MrDuck]

Look, you are going to drive yourself crazy by thinking on so many aspects when the real reason could be far from what any of us could know.

I guess she must be thinking as to how to tell when you ask her.Since you both have a good connection, then belive me ,she must have got the vibe from you.So, the nerves are both ways, not just you.

If she has a good head on her shoulders, she knows what's happening but maybe, just like you, doesnt want to ruin something that has potential.

Yeah true true!! I guess I'll have a chat with her soon as then!

 

 

You seem very reasonable, and since she doesn't 'always have a boyfriend' and was the initial one to express interest, it doesn't seem like a matter of convenience or needing a place holder. You just need to buck up and talk to her about it. Having an open line of communication around sex is super important, it's important to know each other's needs and boundaries.. and you can't just figure those things out on body language alone. You've been dating for quite a while.. not being able to talk about anything around sex isn't a very good thing. How is your communication on other difficult to discuss issues?

What would you call other difficult to discuss issues?

[sandylee1]

When a woman says she is 'not ready' that far into a relationship, it is code for not being all that much into you but hoping she will be in the future.

 

This isn't true in all cases.

 

Sometimes it just means she wants to be sure...before taking it to the next level. Some girls have a time rule. No sex till 6 months.

 

Or some girls want to wait...till marriage. There are quite a lot who want that.

[salparadise]

salparadise, you missed the entire gist of OP.He doesnt want to do wham bham thankyou mam.

 

No I didn't miss the gist of OPs post. What I'm saying is that he's asking the wrong question and needs to look at this from a different perspective. And who's advocating a wham-bam-thank-you-mam? I'd say it's about five months too late for that scenario.

 

This sounds like an ultimatum, which , in most cases dont end well. The best relationships are which are formed before sex.Sex is then just a part of it, not IT.

 

Not an ultimatum - your word, not what I said. What I said is that he needs to just inform her that he wants a real girlfriend, a full relationship. And then get on with his life. No if this, then that- just do it. If she decides to grow up in ten years or so he can always circle back around.

 

Even if there were something to the "make'em wait to see if they're serious" philosophy, five months is a long damn time for a twenty-something guy who has been sexually active in the past. This isn't how adults behave in the 21st century.

 

There is something else going on in this situation. She's leading him around by the shorthairs and enjoying all of this power he's given her. He's dedicating his life to the notion that one day she'll wake up and be different and it will be better than 72 virgins. But I don't think she's going to change much, if at all.

 

He said, "But every so often we kind of go in a circle where she pushes me away, backs right off and then always sites the reason that she's not ready to go any faster (whatever that may be in her mind at that moment i.e. me meeting more of her family or us being more physical)... "

 

I don't know if she's damaged, immature, literally a virgin saving it for marriage or what exactly the issue is... but the fact is that he is so infatuated that he has given up any sense of self-determination or autonomy––he's totally subjugated. I think he is like the gay best friend in a sense and doesn't realize it... and when the right alpha asshat comes along and makes her wet, she won't think twice about giving it up and writing him a note saying, hey it's been fun but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do.

Edited November 4, 2015 by salparadise

[MrDuck]

So I spoke to her yesterday, probably not the best time in the world, but i'm not good at sitting on something. She wasn't in the mood for 'deep and meaningful' and gave me nothing really.

 

 

I text her today, I'll paste below:

Her: I’m not mad at you. Any normal person would say what you said. A normal person would probably say it sooner but then I've always questioned your sanity

 

Me: Insanity breeds insanity sweetheart.

I’m not asking when though. I’m only asking you why? I’ve told you that when doesn't matter to me, that doesn't change.

 

Her: Because I’m difficult

 

*right after*

 

Her: I just overthink everything. You know I do. It’s not that I don’t care. I care more than you know. Like I’m probably closer to you than anyone in the whole world. I know it sounds pessimistic but you shouldn’t like completely trust people. It’s not smart.

It’s not just about having sex, like it shouldn't be such a huge big deal as I know I've kind of made it, I know its not going fast either, we’re going really slow but I feel like its fast cause I’m about 10 steps ahead in my head.

I love you. I feel like your someone I could love all my life. We could go on all those adventures and then marry, have kids, spend our lives together. And I care about Bodhi, he's a really good kid! But realistically your 23 Charlie, how can you so confidently say ‘forever’ when people are splitting up and getting divorced all the time. I don't know how to explain it to you without sounding like I want out which I don’t, or I’m really clingy which I’m not.

Id be really upset if we split up. I think that's not something most people even think about. But statistically we’d be more likely to split up next week than make our golden wedding anniversary! I do trust you, but you know how it is, sometimes life's a b*tch and theres nothing you can do. It would be easier if you were a bit more of a d*ckhead and I didn’t love you so much.

I know I sound like a fruit loop!!

 

 

I’d love to be a bit more Charlie, I’d love to act in the moment, get a “why not” tattoo, have a trademark bandana cause I follow my own fashion, be honest to a fault and jump on the next plane to Coast Rica and live on the beach selling coconuts or something just because I felt like it. But you can’t change who you are and I’m an over thinker!!

It’s not that I care what other people think, but you jump and look down later and I see every possible thing that could go wrong.

 

 

I'm not saying never, I'm not saying ages, and I'm sorry I can't say tomorrow. There's part of me that really wants to but bare with me??

 

 

I can bare with her. Like I say I'm not going to die if I don't have sex & meet her all her family tomorrow. How do you think I play this? Just chug along like I have been and let her get there in her own time? Or try to take a more active stance?

[Glitters]

My take of this girl is that she is sensible and does have a good head. If she was on this board, most people would have adviced her to do what she is comfortable with.

 

I still go with the fact that her ' why' has a story which she hasnt told you yet.That needs to be out, either from her or if you know someone who might know.Then dont make a big deal out of it.That would be the key to going forward ( depending on the fact if its not something you are not fine with ).

 

One can pick up if a woman wants to have you or not.Many can fake but thats for you to decide.Can you feel she wants you because words are cheap.

 

I do not suggest that you let it stagnat as it will fade off but do take a little bolder step here and there.It might make her say whats holding her back.Once that shell is broken,you wont come on this board as you wont have time;)

 

Will it be fair to say that you are an ex bad boy fallen for a good girl ?

[MrDuck]

He said, "But every so often we kind of go in a circle where she pushes me away, backs right off and then always sites the reason that she's not ready to go any faster (whatever that may be in her mind at that moment i.e. me meeting more of her family or us being more physical)... "

This is true, and it is being close as close one day and then periodically being pushed away hat does sometimes get to me, as opposed to just the waiting.

 

and when the right alpha asshat comes along and makes her wet, she won't think twice about giving it up and writing him a note saying, hey it's been fun but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do.

I might have 110 problems but my girls loyalty isn't one! I'd bet my house that pigs would fly before that girl cheats.

If she leaves me for another guy, well then we weren't right, you cant force someone to love you.

However if theres something im not worried about its any guy who thinks he's all "alpha"

 

 

When I was living in Africa I worked with a fella who made me the man I am. In fact he taught me to stop being a teenager and be a man. Some guys never learn.

He used to ask how many times I'd seen an alpha lion out hunting alone (never, I never did). Within a pride the females hunts, the alpha defends his pride and his young. The only males you see out hunting alone are the ones who aren't strong enough yet to have their own pride. The wannabes.

These "alpha" men in the bars, the ones who like to tell you how tough and alpha they are. They're wannabes. I know, I used to be them, got the T-shirt!! The men I look up to now, the real alphas, are the men who look after their families, work hard, protect them, reliable. They're the ones who inspire me to follow them, that's what an alpha or a leader should do. Look at any animal in the world, look at wolves, look at lions, if the pack fails the alpha fails!

 

 

This friend of mine, if I can me half as much of an inspiration to my son as he was to me then I can hang my hat (or bandana) on that, I'll of done good with my life!

[SwordofFlame]

So I spoke to her yesterday, probably not the best time in the world, but i'm not good at sitting on something. She wasn't in the mood for 'deep and meaningful' and gave me nothing really.

 

 

I text her today, I'll paste below:

 

 

Me: Insanity breeds insanity sweetheart.

I’m not asking when though. I’m only asking you why? I’ve told you that when doesn't matter to me, that doesn't change.

 

 

 

*right after*

 

 

 

 

I can bare with her. Like I say I'm not going to die if I don't have sex & meet her all her family tomorrow. How do you think I play this? Just chug along like I have been and let her get there in her own time? Or try to take a more active stance?

 

Wow can someone translate what she said to you? I'm a guy and have no idea what she is trying to say.

[kismetkismet]

It sounds to me like she's not ready to be in a relationship.. She is so concerned about breaking up that she can't just let go and enjoy the great person in front of her. Sure you might break up! Lots of people do! But life is painful sometimes.. you can't hide from that. If you do you miss out on everything that's worth experiencing. Just because a relationship ends doesn't mean it wasn't worth having. My exes have contributed to who i am today, even the terrible ones. Because that's how you learn and grow... she sounds a bit immature and like she is looking for something she simply can't find.. I don't think it's fair of her to continue stringing you along without any indication of what the real substance of the problem is and how it could change..

[MrDuck]

I still go with the fact that her ' why' has a story which she hasnt told you yet.That needs to be out, either from her or if you know someone who might know.Then dont make a big deal out of it.That would be the key to going forward ( depending on the fact if its not something you are not fine with ).

Maybe, its hard, I've known her for a long time if you count in before we started dating and I don't see any glaring reason for trust issues, I mean obviously I haven't been there all her life so I can't say for definite. I really can't think of many things that could be a big deal to me. Like I say, I've been no angel so I like to judge people on who they are today, someone else's past is always cleaner afterall.

 

One can pick up if a woman wants to have you or not.Many can fake but thats for you to decide.Can you feel she wants you because words are cheap.

I don't think she's fake. She'll tell you straight up what she thinks not what you want to hear. If you're being an idiot, she'll tell you. If you've done good, she'll give you the credit. Sometimes she'll do both in a single sentence (its a talent)!

But even if I didn't know that, I feel it, that's why I've been confused. I feel it when we're talking, I feel it when she looks at me. She looks at me like she's reading my mind, right through my eyes.

 

 

I do not suggest that you let it stagnat as it will fade off but do take a little bolder step here and there.

What kind of step is that? I can't say I've been in this scenario before.

 

Will it be fair to say that you are an ex bad boy fallen for a good girl ?

Lol yeah maybe Maybe more like a former idiot that's fallen head over heels for a closet good girl who hides it pretty well

[MrDuck]

It sounds to me like she's not ready to be in a relationship.. She is so concerned about breaking up that she can't just let go and enjoy the great person in front of her. Sure you might break up! Lots of people do! But life is painful sometimes.. you can't hide from that. If you do you miss out on everything that's worth experiencing. Just because a relationship ends doesn't mean it wasn't worth having. My exes have contributed to who i am today, even the terrible ones. Because that's how you learn and grow... she sounds a bit immature and like she is looking for something she simply can't find.. I don't think it's fair of her to continue stringing you along without any indication of what the real substance of the problem is and how it could change..

 

 

I agree with you, that's my outlook too. I like to dive right into stuff, best case: you're on to something great, worst case: you learn something!

 

 

Its weird though cause I think in most ways she's the mature on in the relationship People have commented that she should be the older one!! And like if you met her, you probably wouldn't think she'd worry about anything, certainly not something like this.

[kismetkismet]

She probably has a lot of emotional walls that are built in the name of 'practicality.' Sometimes being logical and rational all the time is the more limiting and negative way to live.. I say this because i'm a hyper rational over thinker myself and have had to overcome that sort of thing. I lost out on a lot of experiences trying to avoid pain, loss, and rejection. You don't learn anything new about yourself or the world that way, and sure you mayyyyy prevent a certain kind of pain, but you also prevent a certain kind of joy. Like you said, sometimes you just have to dive in and see what there is and trust yourself to be able to deal with the outcome in a productive way.

[LilaMarie]

Dear OP, I think you are doing just great. You have willpower and respecting her wishes. I admire you for that.

[Httm]

So I spoke to her yesterday, probably not the best time in the world, but i'm not good at sitting on something. She wasn't in the mood for 'deep and meaningful' and gave me nothing really.

 

 

I text her today, I'll paste below:

 

 

Me: Insanity breeds insanity sweetheart.

I’m not asking when though. I’m only asking you why? I’ve told you that when doesn't matter to me, that doesn't change.

 

 

 

*right after*

 

 

 

 

I can bare with her. Like I say I'm not going to die if I don't have sex & meet her all her family tomorrow. How do you think I play this? Just chug along like I have been and let her get there in her own time? Or try to take a more active stance?

 

There is a reason she questioned your sanity. She is also saying nothing more than that after 5 months she is still not willing to be sexual. For now, you are not in a relationship. You are in a friendship, which is fine. As long as you realize that you are with someone that isn't attracted to you enough to actually be sexual with you for near half a year.

 

If you think these issues will magically clear up some time, they won't.

 

Also, the fact that she texted you responses rather than being mature enough to talk in person speaks to even more issues. "She'll tell you straight up what she thinks not what you want to hear. " This is evidently not the case. Straight up would have been responding when you actually talked to her, not cowering behind texts when you are supposed to be in a "relationship." That is not how partners, ESPECIALLY 5 months in, communicate. Not in any HEALTHY relationship.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Httm

[joseb]

 

Do you know why she held out that long?

 

?

 

Initially it was about not being ready cause she wasn't over an ex, then it was some sexual hangups,(not sure of details) eventually he decided she was either not that into him but liked the company (she never once paid for anything) or just had a low sex drive /issues.

[MrDuck]

She probably has a lot of emotional walls that are built in the name of 'practicality.' Sometimes being logical and rational all the time is the more limiting and negative way to live.. I say this because i'm a hyper rational over thinker myself and have had to overcome that sort of thing. I lost out on a lot of experiences trying to avoid pain, loss, and rejection. You don't learn anything new about yourself or the world that way, and sure you mayyyyy prevent a certain kind of pain, but you also prevent a certain kind of joy. Like you said, sometimes you just have to dive in and see what there is and trust yourself to be able to deal with the outcome in a productive way.

Yeah I completely completely agree. I mean I actually find her practical, logical, black and white thinking really attractive. I mean, its not the way I think at all, i'm much more of a free spirit, a dreamer (and people shy away from that label like its a negative but its not, it doesn't mean I've got my head in the clouds, I can see whats in front of me, but I can see more than that too! Everything was impossible until someone did it first, and then it wasn't impossible anymore)! I guess we're proof that sometimes opposite outlooks can attract! I used to think that being pragmatic made a person dispassionate, but that was narrow-minded of me and she shattered that illusion! We might come at life from different angles but we share all the same values.

 

But there's challenges with every kind of mindset and I agree if you're too hard on your self you can begin to restrict yourself.

I watched this film when I was about 19 (was a pretty ropey film) but there was a quote where he said "all you need in life is 20 seconds of insane courage, just 20 seconds of embarrassing bravery and I promise you something great will come of it" and that hit me somewhere right in the chest cause its so true. Whether you make a snap decision or you spend a lifetime thinking it over in the end it comes down to 20 seconds, to say 'yes', to step on a plane, to kiss her. I have a tattoo on each wrist, ones my sons name, one just says " :20 ", and I try to live my life now by both of those things.

 

When I was younger I used to make decisions on the toss of a coin.

Plenty of times what I set out to do ended in disaster but I'm glad that I didn't know that cause I wouldn't of done it, and sometimes it turns out the end goal was never the important thing it's the people you meet, experiences you have and what you learn about yourself along the way that make something worth doing!

I've made my fair share of decisions in the past that have turned out to be stupid but it's also been along that journey that the things I'm most proud of in my life have completely blindsided me!! I've grown up and i'm more responsible for my actions now, i'm a better man, but I still try to make sure I don't stop injecting that insane courage into my life!

 

Obviously I wouldn't say that to her in those words cause it makes me sound flaky as hell, which I'm not (anymore). I'm completely committed to her, to my son, my brothers, building a solid life (but I'll never commit to being totally ordinary, cause how boring is that)

[MrDuck]

You are in a friendship, which is fine.

No, she's my girlfriend, and its a relationship.

There's a bigger line between friendship and relationships than just what you do in the bedroom. Some religious make people wait till after marriage, some people become physically unable through injuries, is it still only a friendship?

Everyone defines it differently, and that's fine. But in my eyes: she is my girlfriend. By the very nature of my question she is my girlfriend, I don't concern myself with why my friends aren't having sex with me.

 

 

As long as you realize that you are with someone that isn't attracted to you enough to actually be sexual with you for near half a year.

If she wasn't attracted to me then what's the point of us being in this far?? She doesn't have to have a boyfriend, she's never needed a place filler before, she'd like you to think she's too independent to need anyone! Why be with me at all??

 

If you think these issues will magically clear up some time, they won't.

Yeah I accept that. I accept that I've probably spent 4 months waiting for it to magically resolve itself.

I guess i'm not sure whether times healing and it will get me somewhere or its going to need more pro activity.

 

Also, the fact that she texted you responses rather than being mature enough to talk in person speaks to even more issues. "She'll tell you straight up what she thinks not what you want to hear. " This is evidently not the case. Straight up would have been responding when you actually talked to her, not cowering behind texts when you are supposed to be in a "relationship." That is not how partners, ESPECIALLY 5 months in, communicate. Not in any HEALTHY relationship.

My fault.

I had it swimming round my head to say, so then I saw her and I had to say it right then and there. A mistake. I categorically see now that it was a stupid misjudgement to want to talk about intimate parts of your relationship with someone at a firework display

In hindsight, my fault.

Then I text her to point that very thing out. Which is when she text me back. She's normally pretty short and concise over text.

[Glitters]

Since you both are opposites, so I get the attraction working here. One can feel the sexual tension if its there or not, mutual or not. From what you have written, I guess you feel it. So probably its just a matter of time.

 

It seems like she is bringing out the better man in you.You don't find such people all the time. Most usually bring out the bad in us , so the issues we all have !

 

I dont think there is anything to worry , just give it time and build trust ,feelings etc.

 

Your last sentence stood out to me, (but I'll never commit to being totally ordinary, cause how boring is that). Maybe hers is ! The way you have told about her.

[MrDuck]

Since you both are opposites, so I get the attraction working here. One can feel the sexual tension if its there or not, mutual or not. From what you have written, I guess you feel it. So probably its just a matter of time.

Well this is why I don't feel like its a lack of attraction thing. I feel it. We're 5 months in, and she only has to give me a certain look & kiss me and I go hot and cold and my heart goes nuts like some 15 year old kid with his first crush!! Honestly, I'm a grown man and it's bad!

But I am a grown man and I've been around the block enough to have felt sexual chemistry in the past. If she's not feeling it too then my radars way off, cause I thought I knew when a girl was digging me!

 

It seems like she is bringing out the better man in you.You don't find such people all the time. Most usually bring out the bad in us , so the issues we all have !

She does, most definitely! She makes me want to be the best man I can be, cause I know she'd take no cr%p! I love her, like I could see a whole life with her, not like 'just some girl your dating/hooking up with'. But I also think we make a pretty great couple. I feel like I play a equally important part (which is important), like we balance each other out nicely. I think she pushes me (and I need a bit of that sometimes), and I think I help her relax, go with the flow (and the people around us say that she benefits from that).

 

I dont think there is anything to worry , just give it time and build trust ,feelings etc.

I can do that

 

Your last sentence stood out to me, (but I'll never commit to being totally ordinary, cause how boring is that). Maybe hers is ! The way you have told about her.

Maybe hers is what? Boring or ordinary?

[Glitters]

Ordinary , just saying. Dont take everything so seriously !

[MrDuck]

Ordinary , just saying. Dont take everything so seriously !

Woah there! just querying what you meant