Letting someone down gently?

[Meli22]

So I went on a date a couple nights ago with a really nice guy. We had a great time but to be honest I just didn't feel physically attracted to him. He was nice but the attraction wasn't strong enough for me to want to go out again. He has told me that he can't wait until we go out again but, I haven't told him that I want to and I have no desire to. So my question is, how do I let this guy down gently? He really is lovely but like I said, there's no physical attraction on my part and I just can't see past that.

 

Thanks

[Bito]

Always hard to hurt someone else. And there really is no right way of doing it. You can just ignore him and hope he gets the message. You can be honest (but because its his looks and not something he has control over I would not be honest in this situation). Or you can lie.

 

Option one for ignoring works best if he has social intelligence.

 

The choice is yours.

[phineas]

Tell him he's a nice guy but not the guy for you.

Tell him you're not interested.

Tell him you're not feeling it.

 

Just rip that Band-Aid off and move on.

Don't leave him hanging.

If he doesn't go away like any normal non issues guy should ignore him.

[Downtown]

Meli, if you don't mind, I will respond to some questions and comments you made about the exBF you dated for two years. Although you've discussed him in eight different threads, I am unable to respond there because those threads have been inactive for more than 60 days.

 

Significantly, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., event-triggered irrational anger, controlling behavior, lack of impulse control, rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (devaluing you), irrational jealousy, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Moreover, the repeated cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back is one of the hallmarks of having strong traits of BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exBF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). These traits are essentially ego defenses that, at low levels, are needed to survive childhood and are still needed occasionally even in adulthood. At issue, then, is not whether your exBF exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list.

 

They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and inability to trust. Unless specified otherwise, all of the statements quoted below were taken from your May 29 post.

 

I was constantly accused of looking at other men, and I was branded a liar if I didn't admit to it.

If your exBF has strong BPD traits, this irrational jealousy is exactly what you should expect to see. Because a BPDer (person with strong traits) is emotionally unstable, he is unable to trust himself. Until he learns how to do that, he will be unable to trust anyone who draws close to him. The result is that a BPDer has two great fears: abandonment (fear that you will walk away when you realize how empty he is inside) and engulfment (fear that you are suffocating and controlling him when you draw close in intimacy).

 

I started to believe I was going crazy and doubted myself.

Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious for making a large share of the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. (To a lesser extent, narcissists also have this "crazy making" effect on partners.) This is why therapists see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

He made me believe I was nowhere near as good a partner as he was.

If he has strong BPD traits, this behavior is typical because BPDers are notorious for their lack of self awareness. They are so filled with painful shame and self loathing that the last thing they want to find is one more thing to add to the long list of issues they hate about themselves.

 

A BPDer's subconscious mind therefore works 24/7 to keep his conscious mind from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting all hurtful thoughts, doubts, and feelings onto his partner. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, he truly does believe -- at a conscious level -- that these painful feelings are coming from his partner.

 

He told me he thinks he made me a better person, when the truth is I was happy with who I was and didn't feel I needed to change.

During the honeymoon period, a BPDer's infatuation convinces him that you are the nearly perfect woman who has arrived to save him from his unhappiness. In this way, the infatuation holds his two fears at bay. Yet, when that infatuation starts to evaporate 4 to 6 months later, the abandonment and engulfment fears return.

 

Sadly, you CANNOT avoid triggering those fears. The reason is that they lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that, as you draw close to show your love, you will start triggering his engulfment fear (due to his inability to handle intimacy for very long). Yet, as you back away to give him breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering his abandonment fear.

 

Because the two of you are always in a lose/lose situation when the infatuation evaporates, he will stop perceiving of you as the "nearly perfect" rescuer. Instead, you will be perceived of as "the perpetrator," i.e., the cause of his every misfortune and his unhappiness. At that point, the only way you will be allowed to remain in the relationship is to start walking on eggshells -- i.e., to start changing your behavior and not being your true self. This is done to minimize the number of times you trigger his two fears.

 

My ex was controlling and I felt like I was walking on eggshells (from your post today in Deep's thread).

As I said above, that's how the abused partners of BPDers feel. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to those abused partners) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

It had to be me to walk away because he wouldn't make a decision despite being so cold and doubting his feelings.... he came back wanting to try (I stupidly said ok) and within a week he turned again.

BPDers have such weak, fragile egos that they lack a stable sense of who they are. They therefore are attracted to people with a strong personality who can provide that missing sense of self identity. Yet, when you do EXACTLY THAT for them, they will resent you because they'll feel like you're trying to control and suffocate them.

 

The result is that a BPDer relationship typically exhibits a repeating, unending cycle of push-you-away (by starting a fight over nothing) and pull-you-back (by love bombing and offering great makeup sex). The irony, of course, is that the BPDer is frequently devaluing you with verbal abuse or icy withdrawal -- but does not want you to leave permanently. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

 

If the abused partner is emotionally healthy, she typically will spend 6 months to a year trying to restore her partner to the wonderful guy she saw at the beginning. Then she will walk away, just as you did. However, when the abused partner is an excessive caregiver like me, he will stay for years and years -- mistakenly convinced that, if he can only figure out what HE is doing wrong, he can restore the BPDer to what was seen at the beginning. This is why BPDer relationships typically go through many breakup/makeup cycles before ending permanently.

 

I had the courage to walk away from this, and that I am proud of.

As you SHOULD BE!

 

He ruined an amazing vacation with his constant accusations and twisted everything round so that I believed it was me who ruined the vacation.

BPDers typically exhibit their very WORST behavior either during or immediately after the very BEST of times. My BPDer exW, for example, created the worst fights in the middle of a great vacation or the morning after a very intimate evening together.

 

This occurs because, although BPDers crave intimacy like nearly everyone else, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Because they have such a fragile sense of self, they quickly start feeling like they are losing themselves in the partner's strong personality. This painful feeling of "engulfment" makes them conclude, at a conscious level, that they somehow are being controlled or suffocated by their partners.

 

He stormed out of my house on my birthday, after being cold and starting an argument about something he pictured in his head (he imagined I checked out guys in the gym, had never seen me in the gym but created this scenario in his head and because I said it's not true, he left).

The key hallmark of having strong BPD traits is the inability to regulate or control one's own emotions. Due to this emotional immaturity, a BPDer often experiences feelings so intense that he is absolutely convinced they MUST be true. Importantly, this happens to all of us. The human condition is such that, whenever we experience very intense feelings (e.g., hatred or infatuation), our judgment goes out the window.

 

Of course, nearly all adults realize this and therefore try to keep their mouths shut until they have time to cool down. Well, BPDers are like this too, having a distorted view of their partner's intensions -- only it is multiplied times 20 or 30 because they are too emotionally immature to control their feelings with self soothing and they lack impulse control. This is why BPDers -- like young children -- regard their intense feelings as self-evident "facts" that are beyond logical dispute.

 

He did not apologize for spoiling my birthday and insisted it was "just another day so who cares".

As I noted above, BPDers lack self awareness about the consequences of their actions because their subconscious protects them from seeing too much of reality. On top of that, their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations is distorted by their intense feelings. It therefore is common to hear such ridiculous allegations coming out of a BPDer's mouth that you will simply marvel that a grown man can say such absurdities while keeping a straight face. These are the type of incredible statements you would expect to hear coming out of the mouth of a four year old or an onstage comedian.

 

Angry that it always seemed to be me apologizing and carrying guilt for things I hadn't done.

BPDers have very weak, unstable egos. To the extent a BPDer has any stable, persistent sense of self at all, it is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Because a BPDer maintains a death grip on that false self image, he will tolerate your presence in the R/S only as long as you continue "validating" that false self image.

 

There are only two roles for you to play that will provide that validation. One is to be "The Rescuer," as you were during the infatuation period and sporadically throughout the rest of the R/S. As long as you are trying to rescue him from his unhappiness, the obvious implication is that he must be "The Victim" or you wouldn't be working so hard to save him. Of course, a BPDer doesn't really want to be rescued. Instead, he only seeks the validation. That's why every time you pull a BPDer from the raging seas, he will promptly jump back into the water when your head is turned.

 

The other role for you to play is that of "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of his unhappiness and his every misfortune. As long as you continue to take the blame for everything, you will be providing the validation he sorely needs of his eternal victim status.

 

He hated routine and he believed relationships should always feel passionate and exciting..... but the "spark" was not feeling as intense.... my ex said he thinks this will happen in every relationship with him after a while.

If he is a BPDer, it probably will happen in every relationship. BPDers have a bottomless pit of need inside that is impossible for anyone to fill up. This is why one of the nine defining traits for BPD (i.e., traits used to diagnose it) is "Chronic feelings of emptiness and/or boredom."

 

He is probably doing ok (this is just assumption), meeting new girls etc and I feel I'm left picking myself up after everything.

If he really has strong BPD traits, he is too emotionally immature to deal with strong conflicting feelings or ambiguities in interpersonal relationships. Like a four year old, a BPDer will "split off" that conflicting feeling (e.g., his love for you), putting it far out of reach of his conscious mind. In that way, he will "split you black," i.e., perceive you as "all bad" and treat you accordingly.

 

This is why BPDers may appear to be "doing ok" so quickly after a breakup. They are only in touch with their anger and bad memories of you. This characteristic of having extremely passionate, intense feelings that can be turned off -- like a light switch -- is why it is sometimes said that a BPDer's feelings are a "mile wide and an inch deep." Of course, this also describes the feelings of any four year old. With BPDers, however, they are not really "doing ok." Moreover, as quickly as their feelings were switched off, they can be switched back on at a later date.

 

I wonder if anyone has been in a similar situation, or can offer some insight (your April 15 post).

Meli, if this discussion seems relevant to understanding your exBF's odd behaviors, I suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exBF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful experience -- i.e., avoid taking him back and avoid running into the arms of another man just like him. Take care, Meli.

[smackie9]

No one likes rejection, but they do want honesty. Don't use "nice guy" no guy likes hearing that. Just say " Sorry I'm not interested in going on a second date. I did enjoy our date, but I didn't feel a connection. I wish you all the best." Straight and to the point.

[StBreton]

So I went on a date a couple nights ago with a really nice guy. We had a great time but to be honest I just didn't feel physically attracted to him. He was nice but the attraction wasn't strong enough for me to want to go out again. He has told me that he can't wait until we go out again but, I haven't told him that I want to and I have no desire to. So my question is, how do I let this guy down gently? He really is lovely but like I said, there's no physical attraction on my part and I just can't see past that.

 

Thanks

 

Why did you go out with him if you weren't physically attracted to him?

 

Also ... sometimes that strong "physical chemistry" isn't necessary in the beginning as people tend to grow more attractive due to their personalities. May go out another time ... if he's a really nice guy that's way more attractive to me than being head over heels attractive and I'm not an unattractive girl.

 

If you really can't see past this and he calls or texts to go out again, just tell him you don't feel it's a good fit with him. From the sound of your last relationship, are you not attracted to him because he's too "nice" ?

[Meli22]

Why did you go out with him if you weren't physically attracted to him?

 

Also ... sometimes that strong "physical chemistry" isn't necessary in the beginning as people tend to grow more attractive due to their personalities. May go out another time ... if he's a really nice guy that's way more attractive to me than being head over heels attractive and I'm not an unattractive girl.

 

If you really can't see past this and he calls or texts to go out again, just tell him you don't feel it's a good fit with him. From the sound of your last relationship, are you not attracted to him because he's too "nice" ?

 

It was a blind date. Well we met on a dating website and I only saw one picture. As I said, it was a good date and I had fun but for me to want to continue seeing someone there had to be something else apart from good conversation.

 

And no. It's not because he was "too nice." My last relationship has nothing to do with the kind of men I go for, nor do I want a relationship like that again.

 

Anyway.. I told him a few weeks back that we wouldn't go out again. He was fine about it and kinda felt the same way.

[jen1447]

No one likes rejection, but they do want honesty. Don't use "nice guy" no guy likes hearing that. Just say " Sorry I'm not interested in going on a second date. I did enjoy our date, but I didn't feel a connection. I wish you all the best." Straight and to the point.

 

Don't lie and don't blow off - both are really thoughtless, selfish ways of letting someone go. Be honest like smackie9 says. That doesn't have to mean cutting remarks like "I just feel absolutely no attraction to you at all, yuck," but it does mean give him the gist of it for his own sake. At least that way he can take something away from the experience to build on in a tangible way. It's bscly like constructive criticism.

 

If you say "I didn't feel a connection," he might take from that that he needs to up his game presentation-wise and get a makeover or a haircut or a new wardrobe or whatevs. Positive.

 

If you say "I'll be busy the next 6 months" or "my dog died," he either thinks he's fine and it had nothing to do with him and just goes on to make the same mistakes again or he realizes you're lying and feels like sh*t bc you didn't respect him enough to treat him like a man and tell him the truth. Negative.

[StBreton]

It was a blind date. Well we met on a dating website and I only saw one picture. As I said, it was a good date and I had fun but for me to want to continue seeing someone there had to be something else apart from good conversation.

 

And no. It's not because he was "too nice." My last relationship has nothing to do with the kind of men I go for, nor do I want a relationship like that again.

 

Anyway.. I told him a few weeks back that we wouldn't go out again. He was fine about it and kinda felt the same way.

 

 

Oh I just noticed your original post was weeks ago but it's under the area of new posts. Sounds like you did the right thing and good to hear you won't date a guy like the last one ... you sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders and deserve a lot better than your last bf. At least you're out there again and trying:) All the best

[Meli22]

Oh I just noticed your original post was weeks ago but it's under the area of new posts. Sounds like you did the right thing and good to hear you won't date a guy like the last one ... you sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders and deserve a lot better than your last bf. At least you're out there again and trying:) All the best

 

Thank you x

[Maggie4]

I think usually when a guy can't get a second date after a first blind date, he thinks the woman didn't like his looks and he moves on. When she drops him after a couple of dates, he thinks he must have done something wrong. And then the guy over analyzes, when it was really just a lack of attraction right from the beginning. Anyway, this guy moved on so it ended ok.

[Maggie4]

Great post above on BPD. Decades ago I dated a man who exhibited these traits. But that was before personal computers and internet. Unless you worked in that field you never heard of these terms.

Whoa! It was horrible and I thought it was me. Later on I figured out there was something wrong with him, but at that time didn't know anything about personality disorders, I only knew he was off.

The interesting thing is, none of this interfered with his career. He appeared well adjusted (and later became a doctor and then professor). He had a lot of friends, was sociable, but behind closed doors, he was a total wreck in relationships. You can't judge a book by its covers...

[Meli22]

Great post above on BPD. Decades ago I dated a man who exhibited these traits. But that was before personal computers and internet. Unless you worked in that field you never heard of these terms.

Whoa! It was horrible and I thought it was me. Later on I figured out there was something wrong with him, but at that time didn't know anything about personality disorders, I only knew he was off.

The interesting thing is, none of this interfered with his career. He appeared well adjusted (and later became a doctor and then professor). He had a lot of friends, was sociable, but behind closed doors, he was a total wreck in relationships. You can't judge a book by its covers...

 

Mine was exactly the same. Doing well in his career, lots of friends, was always the life and soul of the party. But something was "missing" with us. He was a different person behind closed doors and when i told my friends and family, they were shocked. I could never get my head around why he was so insecure.

[Downtown]

None of this [bPD traits] interfered with his career. He appeared well adjusted (and later became a doctor and then professor). He had a lot of friends, was sociable, but behind closed doors, he was a total wreck in relationships.

Maggie, thanks for the kind words. The vast majority of BPDers interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. None of those people pose a threat to his two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and no intimacy that would trigger his engulfment fear.

 

Consequently, a BPDer's dysfunctional traits typically do not appear until one of those folks makes the mistake of drawing close to form a close LTR with him. This is why it is common to see high functioning BPDers excelling at difficult jobs requiring coordination and cooperation with numerous coworkers. Indeed, it is common to see HF BPDers being caring and thoughtful all day long to clients and colleagues -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love them.

[StBreton]

Maggie, thanks for the kind words. The vast majority of BPDers interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. None of those people pose a threat to his two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and no intimacy that would trigger his engulfment fear.

 

Consequently, a BPDer's dysfunctional traits typically do not appear until one of those folks makes the mistake of drawing close to form a close LTR with him. This is why it is common to see high functioning BPDers excelling at difficult jobs requiring coordination and cooperation with numerous coworkers. Indeed, it is common to see HF BPDers being caring and thoughtful all day long to clients and colleagues -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love them.

 

Not trying to hijack the OP's thread ... reading some of her old threads I do see some of the BPD traits in her old bf. I also want to thank you Downtonn for posting the BPD traits and info ... I read your posts every time and the info is truly valuable in order to avoid a relationship with someone on the spectrum.

 

My first experience with someone on the spectrum was last year (first dating experience after having been married +15 yrs). I didn't see the traits for the first few months (a lot of love bombing here) but then they came blasting out. Being emotionally intelligent I knew his highs/lows had nothing to do with me and I didn't change my behavior's in order to "appease" the guy ... in fact he was upset that I didn't ignore my texts from friends ... texts that would make me giggle and he would get jealous ...this and other things triggered his fear of abandonment. I told him I'm not in high school anymore and it was his issue to resolve. I did see then that he was trying to isolate me by saying things about my friends ... people who are very well thought of so I thought to myself this guy is off his rocker.

 

Anyway, he had anger issues/blow ups with a lot of people (not all the time). He begged me to give him a chance to get on meds and counseling. He did those things but didn't change (at least enough for me) so I left him a few months later. He really blew up then. Scary experience and like I said the info you post is so valuable for us new daters. Thank you thank you.

 

Re: drawing in close in a LTR ... that's it exactly. I came to discover the guy I had the experience with...him drawing me in close was so comforting post divorce but it was really about him fulfilling a need in himself to have someone that close. I was like a pacifier to him ... he was for me too in a way post divorce but mine was an acute situation and his was chronic. I didn't like the price that closeness came with like the jealousy and possessiveness. I'd never in 30 yrs of having relationships experienced anything like this guy.

Edited November 23, 2015 by StBreton

[Meli22]

Not trying to hijack the OP's thread ... reading some of her old threads I do see some of the BPD traits in her old bf. I also want to thank you Downtonn for posting the BPD traits and info ... I read your posts every time and the info is truly valuable in order to avoid a relationship with someone on the spectrum.

 

My first experience with someone on the spectrum was last year (first dating experience after having been married +15 yrs). I didn't see the traits for the first few months (a lot of love bombing here) but then they came blasting out. Being emotionally intelligent I knew his highs/lows had nothing to do with me and I didn't change my behavior's in order to "appease" the guy ... in fact he was upset that I didn't ignore my texts from friends ... texts that would make me giggle and he would get jealous ...this and other things triggered his fear of abandonment. I told him I'm not in high school anymore and it was his issue to resolve. I did see then that he was trying to isolate me by saying things about my friends ... people who are very well thought of so I thought to myself this guy is off his rocker.

 

Anyway, he had anger issues/blow ups with a lot of people (not all the time). He begged me to give him a chance to get on meds and counseling. He did those things but didn't change (at least enough for me) so I left him a few months later. He really blew up then. Scary experience and like I said the info you post is so valuable for us new daters. Thank you thank you.

 

Re: drawing in close in a LTR ... that's it exactly. I came to discover the guy I had the experience with...him drawing me in close was so comforting post divorce but it was really about him fulfilling a need in himself to have someone that close. I was like a pacifier to him ... he was for me too in a way post divorce but mine was an acute situation and his was chronic. I didn't like the price that closeness came with like the jealousy and possessiveness. I'd never in 30 yrs of having relationships experienced anything like this guy.

 

Ugh! It's good that you noticed signs pretty early on I guess. And you didn't put up with it!

 

I always think I regret my last rship so much but I suppose if anything, it taught me to see the signs and what I won't put up with again. I just regret the fact that I did put up with it for so long, and also not talking to my friends or family about it. I did once briefly tell my mother by text message about a jealous outburst he'd had (she sensed something was up) but he later snooped through my phone, saw the message and made me tell her that I hadn't meant any of it and that he treated me really well! Just ridiculous

[Maggie4]

Hi St B and Meli, when I had the relationship with this guy, I was so young, it was my first serious relationship, and I didn't have much life experiences. Can you imagine the first RS being one with a BPD partner? I had no point of reference to draw upon. Fortunately, the episode was short lived.