I will probably always remain single and beta

[Fj45]

I'm 29 year old male and all my life I struggled with depression and anxiety. I have undergone ECT treatment and take medications currently. I apologize for my long thread but I want to have a academic discussion as to the conclusion I've reached and its validity.

 

Please bear with me. Today I came to the realization that from an evolutionary point of view, me as a male offer no reproductive or sexual value to the opposite sex.

 

I summarized my life and took stock of who I am in the most logical disconnected way.

 

Reasons why I will be single forever: -I'm ugly, both facially and so is my body. I confirm this assessment by using evidence: A-I've had 5 women tell me they're not physically attracted to me to in person verbatim. Ouch! B-When I use online dating I get a response rate per 100 replies that is even lower than the worst performing male. I've changed pictures and profiles and had ppl review it as well C-Women almost never make eye contact or notice me or give me any signals of attraction while they do with other males.

 

I'm the wrong skin color, I'm brown with ethnic features: A- Okcupid did a study that showed even women of other races messages white males more than their own race B- White male is the standard of beauty and status all over the world. I'm not angry or resentful, I just acknowledge that this is the way society is setup. My skin color just means my pool of interested women shrinks dramatically in a western nation.

 

Im 29 and I live at home with my parents, I have no job but I have a BA in Economics, but still fail to find any work. A-Im unable to provide any resources that women instinctually look for from a man to help with child rearing.

 

I don't have any friends male or female, I have no social status. Women look for or want males that other women want. The more friends a man has and the more females a man has interested in him the more his social value rises which = attraction. In my case this is zero. High social value makes the man a woman is interested in seem even more valuable than otherwise would. I am not dominant, a leader, bold or confident.

 

My personality type is INFP the type considered to be most feminine. Women want a man who takes charge and can lead others. This trait helps a woman feel safe and protected and makes her feel like he will be strong enough to provide resources. I am shy timid and reserved and never want to make the first move and want to be protected instead of protecting a very female trait in most cases. My INFP personality from an evolutionary standpoint is a detriment to survival. I have no level of charm or humor, multiple efforts to spark conversation leads to dead ends. I have watched and listened to others talk and I'm amazed at the funny witty things people can say. People male and female like to be around people who can make others laugh and smile which is something I've never been able to do.

 

Now since I was 17 I dedicated myself to changing these things about myself. To become more physically attractive, funnier and increase my social status etc. But I realize the needle hasn't moved very much since 17 which is over 10 years. Today I realized after a woman I was introduced to by a friend who I had asked out, told me she wasn't interested in me, that the things working against me are too great to be overcome. Making effort toward improving yourself is noble and I tried for 10 years to be better. However I'm still the low sexual value male that I was at 17.

 

I came to the realization that maybe I was not meant to love, and have a family that nature has in its cruel manner put me at a significant disadvantage. That for all intents and purposes from an evolutionary point of view I am not meant to procreate and pass on my inferior genes. I realize that it's because of inferiority that no woman would naturally want me. Taking away the "be positive" and confident pieces of advice.

 

I am a terrible race horse that no woman should bet on. Since all sexual relationships are rooted in the evolutionary drives that are hidden but very much at play, it would be best to allocate my efforts to other things. Rather than devote countless hours of thinking and feeling miserable when seeing other men having friends and success with females.

 

Instead I should realize simply that I am defective and the hurdles are too great already having invested so much time and energy into trying to be more attractive. I can find peace in the fact that perhaps I was never going to succeed and to accept my fate rather than trying to fight it. Like making peace on a sinking ship. The prospect of me being an attractive male is bleak after so many years of trying.

 

Giving up on love and sex doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when I see others holding hands or overhear women on the train about their new date and how he did XYZ and realizing how I would never match up. Just imagine a starving child homeless looking in through the glass window of a cafe watching people enjoy meals and eat with carefree abandon while his stomach hurts. Knowing he would love to eat but knowing that it will be out of reach at least for tonight. Poor people in third world countries that see pictures of warm apartments on TV perhaps or hear about them, realizing that they will probably die in the same hole they were born in.

 

Ive reached the conclusion that my case is without much hope and I will probably just always be someone looking in wishing to be inside but realizing that it just cannot be because of not being the man nature demands for women to find me attractive.

 

anyone else come to the same conclusion as I have?

[LostOne1]

I think the problem here might be that you are trying to force something to happen....

 

I'm in the same boat as you with the same age.

 

The difference is.... I really don't care if a girl likes me or not. In the sense, that I am not dying to get a date.

 

What I've learned in the past is that things happen when you least expect them to so.

 

If you have no job... why not work on getting one? Why sit there and cry about no woman wanting you.

 

First fix yourself! I was like you too... expect I pushed hard for work and that became #1 for me.

 

Also... how can someone love you when you don't even love yourself?

 

You sound like you dislike yourself. And if so... then make changes. It won't be easy and it was super hard for me. But guess what... I did make them.

 

I still struggle everyday... but I survive and push it.

 

I don't know what the future holds for me.... But, there is no way I can be single forever. I know that.....

 

But concentrate on OTHER things in your life, before wanting to share a life with another person.

[Mystique01]

Hey......

 

I don't know who you are irl, but your post made me feel so sad.

 

I honestly think that you are OVER-analyzing yourself way too much. I don't know if it's from the depression, the anxiety, or the low self esteem or what, but whatever it is, you need to let that go and be kinder to yourself!

 

As a woman, I can tell you that NONE of the stuff you mentioned (ie. Being "brown skinned", being shy or INFP) is what is keeping you single. The ONLY thing keeping you single is your view of YOURSELF. Ever heard of the LOA?

 

We as women LOVE men who are confident, sure of themselves, feel good about themselves, and who have good social skills. Sure, good looks help, but honestly for women, we are MUCH more forgiving than guys when it comes to looks. We can fall for the nerdy guy, the funny guy who keeps us laughing, the emo guy, etc. As long as you OWN whatever and whoever you are, and make zero excuses for it, you will have girls into you.

 

The BIGGEST turn off for women is a man who is not comfortable with himself and who is self-deprecating. We figure that if you don't even like yourself, why should we? I'm sure a man would feel the same way about a woman if the shoe were on the other foot.

 

I'm not trying to be harsh, but you need a serious self-esteem makeover! You'll be surprised how much your life (especially your dating life ) can change when you choose to truly LOVE yourself.

 

So shake off the negative thoughts! You have to be the cheerleader in your own life. If YOU don't feel good about you, how do you expect girls (and others) to feel good about you? People often mirror back to you what vibes you're putting out, so if you're giving off an "I'm so worthless" vibe, you will attract/invite others to subconsciously treat you like you're worthless or invisible. It's YOUR life. You're the only one in your body. You should be the "leading man" in your OWN LIFE for goodness sakes!

 

So please, I beg you.....do something everyday to improve your self worth. Write down everyday 5 things you like about yourself, things you're good at, your talents, traits, good deeds, ANYTHING positive.

 

You really have to change your focus. I hope you continue to find the guidance that you have already been seeking. Just go easy on yourself, and stop the mental gymnastics and OVER-thinking. You'll be surprised at how quickly your whole persona can change.

 

Remember, nobody is perfect. We all go to the bathroom and put our pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else. So please.....go easy on yourself! I'm sure you have good qualities! (((Hug)))

Edited October 30, 2015 by Mystique01

[SammySammy]

There's a fundamental flaw in your reasoning:

 

Somebody who looks like you ... had sex and produced you. From an evolutionary point of view, they had reproductive and sexual value. So do you.

 

To take it further, someone who looked like them ... had sex and produced them. On and on, for generations, people who look like you have been having relationships, sex and reproducing. That's how you got here.

 

None of those things you mentioned are barriers to love or sex.

 

The only real barrier to your success in any area of your life is the way you think. And putting forth the effort required until you achieve it.

 

"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right." - Henry Ford

 

Your life would be completely different if you not only thought positively, but had absolute, unshakable certainty of your worth. Because you ARE worthy. You just have to believe it. KNOW it.

Edited October 30, 2015 by MidKnightDreams

[frogs88]

You received electro convulsive therapy? I presume you have a very serious case of clinical depression then. And your line of thought reveals it. Isn't this a way bigger hindrance than skin color, appearance, introverted etc?

[ManyDissapoint]

Start lifting weights 4-6 times a week. Get a job. Do not be afraid of blue collar jobs as long as they pay you well and make you feel like a man.

 

Do not worry too much, as most women are not deserving of your love either.

[Maggie4]

I'm surprised you think about women when you have no job and living with parents. People go through transitions, but you talk as if you intend to always be like this. That's wrong.

Everyone has a responsibility to contribute to society. Your parents are doing you a disservice when they allow you to live off of them. What appears to be support is ruining you. They should kick you out, and if you can't survive, you've got a much bigger problem than finding women.

[d0nnivain]

You need to be discussing a lot of this stuff with your therapist. A message board won't be as much help

 

 

In the short run, get a job. Having a routine, an income & somewhere you can achieve a sense of accomplishment will do a lot to help over come your depression.

 

 

Also start some sort of exercise program. You don't need an expensive gym but you can walk daily and do some exercises at home. The endorphins produced from exercise will also help.

 

 

Meanwhile keep working with your therapist to boost your self esteem. Try reading some library books on the subject to. Be proactive here.

[Fj45]

Start lifting weights 4-6 times a week. Get a job. Do not be afraid of blue collar jobs as long as they pay you well and make you feel like a man.

 

Do not worry too much, as most women are not deserving of your love either.

 

I've often asked myself that I should do a blue collar job. I'm great with my hands, I built a replica Marshall amp from 1960 using solder etc. I think I would love being a welder. I have an eye for detail for these sorts of things.

 

But the stigma of blue collar jobs is what holds me back, in fact I enjoy physical work more than mental work because I feel much better after I've finished the work. My parents would be disappointed that I went into the trades, my brother is a doctor and doing well for himself so I would feel like a failure.

 

One of my dream jobs has been working on aircraft like the a-10 warthog and doing repairs and maybe welding aircraft together. I'm a huge aviation nerd and have been since being a child

 

Is it hard to become a welder or work on aircraft?

[GorillaTheater]

But the stigma of blue collar jobs is what holds me back, in fact I enjoy physical work more than mental work because I feel much better after I've finished the work. My parents would be disappointed that I went into the trades, my brother is a doctor and doing well for himself so I would feel like a failure.

 

Stigma? Screw that crap. I'm a lawyer. Son #2, 21 years old, used to do HVAC work and is now learning the renovation business and loves it. I'm proud of him for pursuing his interests and doing so with gusto. And it's not like I'd recommend going into law for any of my kids.

 

Pursue what you're interested in, and do so proudly and well. Chicks dig that.

[edgygirl]

I think you are being too hard on yourself... no matter how ugly you think you are, even ugly people get paired. Also, go for girls who care about personality, there are a lot of us out there.

 

Besides, I love love love INFPs, you are awesome interesting creative people and you just have to find someone who appreciate you, many of us NF do. Join some facebook groups related to MBTI, and you'll find people like you and start feeling more comfy in your skin.

[carhill]

IMO, nothing unhealthy about being single and a follower, presuming one is discriminating in who they follow. For there to be effective leaders, followers are necessary and vital.

 

If you examine any or every historically significant person, you'll find they have one thing in common:

 

Parents

 

Did those parents know, before mating, that their contribution to the world would be valuable or significant? Nope, they were just doing what people do, reproducing. Most parents have high hopes, regardless of their personal milieu, whether attractive or unattractive, alpha or beta, significant or unremarkable.

 

You can view life and your place in it in any way you choose. You have that power and no one can take it away from you.

[JustGettingBy]

Assuming that the depression and social anxiety are actual diagnosed, that is what you have to get taken care of first. If you're not sure whether or not a professional would diagnose you, approach one. Stigma around mental health is completely driven by society's ignorance, and having these does not devalue you as a person.

 

Secondly, if you can't get a job or afford to return to school, the next best thing to do would be to start volunteering somewhere. It will give you something for your resume, start building your network, and get you social. Also you will see your work benefiting someone who could really use it, making a positive impact on the world, which on its own boosts self-esteem. I'm a recent graduate who hasn't yet gotten a job in my field, and volunteering is opening up so many doors for me now. In a tough economy, living at home with a degree is normal. I've graduated college 3 times and still live at home.

 

People these days make career changes in their 40's, including going back to school. 29 is still young enough to re-boot a career you already have an education is.

 

Warning: Do not expect instant results. This will likely take months at the very least. Be patient. If you're willing to wait a couple of years, you'll build into someone who you never thought possible. You can become someone who has his life together. That's the point where you can worry about getting a gf.

[d0nnivain]

One of my dream jobs has been working on aircraft like the a-10 warthog and doing repairs and maybe welding aircraft together. I'm a huge aviation nerd and have been since being a child

 

There's a saying: Do what you love & you will never work a day in your life.

 

If you are really that into aviation, look into joining the military. As a college grad you will probably become an officer but they will give you the skills you desire. You will also get buff in no time.

[OrangeParty]

As a 29 year old ethnic minority INFP with a B.S in economics, your story makes me doubly depressed.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Instead I should realize simply that I am defective and the hurdles are too great already having invested so much time and energy into trying to be more attractive. I can find peace in the fact that perhaps I was never going to succeed and to accept my fate rather than trying to fight it. Like making peace on a sinking ship. The prospect of me being an attractive male is bleak after so many years of trying.

 

Giving up on love and sex doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when I see others holding hands or overhear women on the train about their new date and how he did XYZ and realizing how I would never match up. Just imagine a starving child homeless looking in through the glass window of a cafe watching people enjoy meals and eat with carefree abandon while his stomach hurts. Knowing he would love to eat but knowing that it will be out of reach at least for tonight. Poor people in third world countries that see pictures of warm apartments on TV perhaps or hear about them, realizing that they will probably die in the same hole they were born in.

 

Ive reached the conclusion that my case is without much hope and I will probably just always be someone looking in wishing to be inside but realizing that it just cannot be because of not being the man nature demands for women to find me attractive.

 

anyone else come to the same conclusion as I have?

 

Well, scary as it sounds, in another 15 years or so, you may be in the same situation, but accept your fate with a much calmer and more flippant attitude.

 

But yes, hundreds of thousands of people who are essentially good people with a good heart and sense of humor have a lot of difficulty in attracting mates.

 

The first thing you could do is get a job and move into your own place. But that is not what I believe is hindering you, because if it were, then you'd be getting interest from women, but they would drop you when they found out you are jobless and live at home.

 

It comes down to how bad you want it. If you are willing to get rejected by like 30 or 40 women to find the one woman who will give you a chance, then you're in business. If in your mind, that game is too much or too unfair, then yea, you might want to start devoting your energies elsewhere.

 

Hate to say it, but a different guy throws in the towel every day (and women too, but in a totally different way).

Edited October 31, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[anika99]

I've often asked myself that I should do a blue collar job. I'm great with my hands, I built a replica Marshall amp from 1960 using solder etc. I think I would love being a welder. I have an eye for detail for these sorts of things.

 

But the stigma of blue collar jobs is what holds me back, in fact I enjoy physical work more than mental work because I feel much better after I've finished the work. My parents would be disappointed that I went into the trades, my brother is a doctor and doing well for himself so I would feel like a failure.

 

One of my dream jobs has been working on aircraft like the a-10 warthog and doing repairs and maybe welding aircraft together. I'm a huge aviation nerd and have been since being a child

 

Is it hard to become a welder or work on aircraft?

 

I just have to lol at this. Stigma of blue collar jobs? Dude, you are almost thirty years old, you have no job and you live with your parents. The stigma associated with that situation is horrible. Most women would choose a welder over a jobless adult male who lives at home. Get a grip man!

 

I don't know where you live but where I am people in the trades do very well financially so long as they want to work and they take their job seriously. There was a big boom here that started about 20 yrs ago and that's when the trades started to really take off and it remains steady today. Now tradesmen are often just as well off as doctors and lawyers and without all the student debt. Lots of women are attracted to men in the trades. Something sexy and manly about a man who can do stuff with his hands. Unemployment is never sexy to a woman. Living at home with the parents past a certain age is definitely not sexy. The stigma of blue collar workers is in your head. You're the one who judges blue collar people as being beneath you, but people who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.

 

Most of the things on your lists of reasons for staying single are things that can be changed or improved. You might not be able to change your face or skin colour but you can change your body. You can get a job, you can move out. Even a man with a roommate is more attractive then a man living with his parents. You can pursue other interests besides women ( the only part of your post I agree with) and with hobbies and a job you will meet people and make friends. With more interests and more people there are more opportunities for better employment and possibly romance. Unattractive people meet and fall in love all the time. They marry and have children. Just go to Walmart and you'll see a bunch of them...lol.

 

Nothing good is going to happen in you life while you are withering away at home with your parents. The depression is a real and serious issue but perhaps your situation is only feeding the depression. Make a plan to leave home and stick to it. Take small steps if necessary but you can't hust resign yourself to nothingness without even trying.

[Maggie4]

Glad to see the thread turn to your career and who you want to be. Focus on that. Your main issue is not about women rejecting you. It's about what you want to do with your life.

[oldshirt]

There's only a few things you can't change about yourself.

 

-Your age, your height, your race.

 

 

Everything else can be modified.

 

Every person has it within their ability to dress sharp, groom themselves, eat right and exercise, learn social and interpersonal skills, get a job.

 

Even facial features can be heavily influenced without cosmetic surgery, by losing/gaining weight depending on if they are over or under weight, hairstyle, tanning, wearing the right glasses/contacts/Lasic etc.

 

There is no excuse for an adult male with a college education to be chronically unemployed. Flip burgers at McDonald's and due a good job and work your way up the chain of command. McDonald's is a huge international corporation and if a person is ambitious, hardworking, fits in with the culture and continues their education (both in house training as well as taking on other business-related education, there is no reason a burger flipper could not ultimately become an executive some day.

 

Realistically, your biggest obstacle here is likely your depression and general mental health. Continue to seek treatment and therapy for your mental challenges because that is probably what is holding you back the most. If you have had ECT, you probably have significant problems and it will be incumbent on you to always be striving to seek the most efficacious treatments and therapies so that you are as functional as you can be.

[SJC2008]

Sorry to hear you feel that way about yourself. If you're not in counseling I would recommend it.

 

Focusing on getting your career situated. have you thought about insurance, claims adjusting? I'm sure you could an entry level position with your degree.

 

On the women front, stop thinking about what women want and how to satisfy them etc. it's easy to fall into that though pattern when you don't have success with them, I know I did. But try to stop! There are plenty of different types of men and women, not all of them fit into a box. Sure some women want a "take charge" but not all of them. Truru be told, many women, possibly more than 50 want a man they can control. The irony is they still don't want a pu$$y, but someone who masculine but they can still control.

 

Good luck.

[Imported]

I've often asked myself that I should do a blue collar job. I'm great with my hands, I built a replica Marshall amp from 1960 using solder etc. I think I would love being a welder. I have an eye for detail for these sorts of things.

 

But the stigma of blue collar jobs is what holds me back, in fact I enjoy physical work more than mental work because I feel much better after I've finished the work. My parents would be disappointed that I went into the trades, my brother is a doctor and doing well for himself so I would feel like a failure.

 

One of my dream jobs has been working on aircraft like the a-10 warthog and doing repairs and maybe welding aircraft together. I'm a huge aviation nerd and have been since being a child

 

Is it hard to become a welder or work on aircraft?

 

There is no welding on an aircraft. Except maybe at the manufacturer level on certain parts like burner cans and stuff like thati...but no...really, there's no welds on airplanes. Try riveting, it's pretty fun.

 

You'd need an airframes & powerplants certificate to work on airplanes at a professional level.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

I'm 29 year old male and all my life I struggled with depression and anxiety. I have undergone ECT treatment and take medications currently. I apologize for my long thread but I want to have a academic discussion as to the conclusion I've reached and its validity.

 

Please bear with me. Today I came to the realization that from an evolutionary point of view, me as a male offer no reproductive or sexual value to the opposite sex.

 

I summarized my life and took stock of who I am in the most logical disconnected way.

 

Reasons why I will be single forever: -I'm ugly, both facially and so is my body. I confirm this assessment by using evidence: A-I've had 5 women tell me they're not physically attracted to me to in person verbatim. Ouch! B-When I use online dating I get a response rate per 100 replies that is even lower than the worst performing male. I've changed pictures and profiles and had ppl review it as well C-Women almost never make eye contact or notice me or give me any signals of attraction while they do with other males.

 

I'm the wrong skin color, I'm brown with ethnic features: A- Okcupid did a study that showed even women of other races messages white males more than their own race B- White male is the standard of beauty and status all over the world. I'm not angry or resentful, I just acknowledge that this is the way society is setup. My skin color just means my pool of interested women shrinks dramatically in a western nation.

 

Im 29 and I live at home with my parents, I have no job but I have a BA in Economics, but still fail to find any work. A-Im unable to provide any resources that women instinctually look for from a man to help with child rearing.

 

I don't have any friends male or female, I have no social status. Women look for or want males that other women want. The more friends a man has and the more females a man has interested in him the more his social value rises which = attraction. In my case this is zero. High social value makes the man a woman is interested in seem even more valuable than otherwise would. I am not dominant, a leader, bold or confident.

 

My personality type is INFP the type considered to be most feminine. Women want a man who takes charge and can lead others. This trait helps a woman feel safe and protected and makes her feel like he will be strong enough to provide resources. I am shy timid and reserved and never want to make the first move and want to be protected instead of protecting a very female trait in most cases. My INFP personality from an evolutionary standpoint is a detriment to survival. I have no level of charm or humor, multiple efforts to spark conversation leads to dead ends. I have watched and listened to others talk and I'm amazed at the funny witty things people can say. People male and female like to be around people who can make others laugh and smile which is something I've never been able to do.

 

Now since I was 17 I dedicated myself to changing these things about myself. To become more physically attractive, funnier and increase my social status etc. But I realize the needle hasn't moved very much since 17 which is over 10 years. Today I realized after a woman I was introduced to by a friend who I had asked out, told me she wasn't interested in me, that the things working against me are too great to be overcome. Making effort toward improving yourself is noble and I tried for 10 years to be better. However I'm still the low sexual value male that I was at 17.

 

I came to the realization that maybe I was not meant to love, and have a family that nature has in its cruel manner put me at a significant disadvantage. That for all intents and purposes from an evolutionary point of view I am not meant to procreate and pass on my inferior genes. I realize that it's because of inferiority that no woman would naturally want me. Taking away the "be positive" and confident pieces of advice.

 

I am a terrible race horse that no woman should bet on. Since all sexual relationships are rooted in the evolutionary drives that are hidden but very much at play, it would be best to allocate my efforts to other things. Rather than devote countless hours of thinking and feeling miserable when seeing other men having friends and success with females.

 

Instead I should realize simply that I am defective and the hurdles are too great already having invested so much time and energy into trying to be more attractive. I can find peace in the fact that perhaps I was never going to succeed and to accept my fate rather than trying to fight it. Like making peace on a sinking ship. The prospect of me being an attractive male is bleak after so many years of trying.

 

Giving up on love and sex doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when I see others holding hands or overhear women on the train about their new date and how he did XYZ and realizing how I would never match up. Just imagine a starving child homeless looking in through the glass window of a cafe watching people enjoy meals and eat with carefree abandon while his stomach hurts. Knowing he would love to eat but knowing that it will be out of reach at least for tonight. Poor people in third world countries that see pictures of warm apartments on TV perhaps or hear about them, realizing that they will probably die in the same hole they were born in.

 

Ive reached the conclusion that my case is without much hope and I will probably just always be someone looking in wishing to be inside but realizing that it just cannot be because of not being the man nature demands for women to find me attractive.

 

anyone else come to the same conclusion as I have?

be glad you have at least had a girlfriend before