I'm Dreading Trying Online Dating

October 28, 2015

You sound so vain. I think I completely understand your failure in this dating thing.

October 28, 2015

You sound so vain.

I know, I said it in a previous post. Reality of situation is that good looking women in their 20s are as shallow, maybe more shallow than men are. Online it's even that much worse. I have to be on top of my game

It's not by choice. I have to stand out among 8,000 men hitting on a cute 25 year old

Edited October 28, 2015 by CosmicGate7

October 28, 2015

I know, I said it in a previous post. Reality of situation is that good looking women in their 20s are as shallow, maybe more shallow than men are. Online it's even that much worse. I have to be on top of my game

It's not by choice. I have to stand out among 8,000 men hitting on a cute 25 year old

Having read through this thread, there is something that nags at me. It's this.

All the things you've done. All the things you've achieved, yet, you still act and talk like you have no value. It's like there's this huge hole in your sense of self worth when it comes to women and you over compensate for it.

In other words, it seems like everything you attribute to your value as a person is external to yourself.

The job, the fancy clothes, the "right" friends. the "right" social circles. It feels like a life built by looking at a "Must have" list, rather than being something authentic.

Maybe that's what drives people away. They look at all the flash and can't see the substance.

People who say they're great over and over again, are usually trying to sell a story about themselves. The truly confident don't have anything to prove. They are afraid, fail, yet get up and try again.

What is it you're afraid of?

October 28, 2015

lol deal !

She needs Italian lessons

October 28, 2015

how attractive of a woman should I aim for online?

Can I really shoot for an 8?

Below you alluded to "operation girlfriend" and seeking Gaeta. I can tell you this -- she is a 10+ and very smart -- way outta your league.

Instead of losing weight and pumping up your attractiveness number, physically, I think you have some work to do on your personality. The way you are coming across in these threads, indicates that there are other things you need to give your attention to.

October 28, 2015

Your type of thinking is OK if you are looking for sasquatch in the forrest of Pennsylvania, but when it comes to women, you need to improve yourself first.

According to what you have posted, you should have had someone by now.

By the way, my friend lives in PA and she said that he threw rocks at her while camping with her husband. lol

October 28, 2015

Having read through this thread, there is something that nags at me. It's this.

All the things you've done. All the things you've achieved, yet, you still act and talk like you have no value. It's like there's this huge hole in your sense of self worth when it comes to women and you over compensate for it.

In other words, it seems like everything you attribute to your value as a person is external to yourself.

The job, the fancy clothes, the "right" friends. the "right" social circles. It feels like a life built by looking at a "Must have" list, rather than being something authentic.

You want the honest answer? I don't think men really have any value in the heterosexual dating market. This is why good looking men can post a dating profile and get absolutely zero replies. The same thing never EVER happens with women. Men have to work 50 times harder than women for the same amount of dating success and they may not even get it at the end. My sister put in 1/10 the effort to meet someone I do with 100 times the success.

I have tons of value as a human being. I go out of my way to be great to the people in my circle - I'm ferociously loyal, supportive, generous, caring, etc... I've had plenty people who said one of the nicest people they've ever met...but I just don't think any of that matters. I've taken pride in being a good person and doing right thing for 26 years with no success in dating (although I've had lots of success in making friends).

October 28, 2015

OP thinks all women are extremely shallow so therefore he must be extremely shallow himself to get one. Which is true if he does indeed want an extremely shallow woman. But not all women are like that. He just refuses to believe it.

October 28, 2015

OP thinks all women are extremely shallow so therefore he must be extremely shallow himself to get one. Which is true if he does indeed want an extremely shallow woman. But not all women are like that. He just refuses to believe it.

The attractive fit ones my age are astoundingly shallow, especially online

If I want to have any chance in hell to get a cute and fit 25 year old, I need to look like a fitness magazine coverboy. Men generally date way down in online dating because the women have so many options. Can you blame them though? If you were getting 50,000,000 messages a day, wouldn't you hold out for the playboy model?

That doesn't make them bad people. They just want the best the market will give them

October 28, 2015

Below you alluded to "operation girlfriend" and seeking Gaeta. I can tell you this -- she is a 10+ and very smart -- way outta your league.

Instead of losing weight and pumping up your attractiveness number, physically, I think you have some work to do on your personality. The way you are coming across in these threads, indicates that there are other things you need to give your attention to.

Gaeta is fantastic but I'm looking for girls in their 20s, I believe she's in her 30s or 40s

October 28, 2015

The attractive fit ones my age are astoundingly shallow, especially online

If I want to have any chance in hell to get a cute and fit 25 year old, I need to look like a fitness magazine coverboy. Men generally date way down in online dating because the women have so many options. Can you blame them though? If you were getting 50,000,000 messages a day, wouldn't you hold out for the playboy model?

That doesn't make them bad people. They just want the best the market will give them

I understand you're an obsessive perfectionist but you've already got the entire list checked off when it comes to shallow material things. Losing some more weight isn't going to make much of a difference, similar to like buying an even nicer car.

October 28, 2015

I understand you're an obsessive perfectionist but you've already got the entire list checked off when it comes to shallow material things. Losing some more weight isn't going to make much of a difference, similar to like buying an even nicer car.

I've dropped 15 lbs in last year and people who are seeing me first time in a year get beside themselves with how awesome they say I look. My face just looks so much masculine and I get the chiseled lines like you see in male models. I need to drop 20 lbs more to get to the ideal

You think I'm being very vain and I totally get that. I have very little to no faith that this will work even with me getting to my ideal. Im going to face absolutely relentless competition and I need to stand out in every way I can. In the end, I'm probably going to get ignored in favor of some all American looking white guys.

Edited October 28, 2015 by CosmicGate7

October 28, 2015

Here's the honest truth about it

I don't meet many women in my daily routine
The ones I meet don't ever like me - my best friend owns a salon and I've gone out with the girls at his salon a few times and none of the girls at his salon like me. What do you want me to do about it? We get along well, we can have a good time together but none of them are attracted to me/want to date me.
Cold approaching to me is extremely difficult

This isn't me blaming external factors. When I say women don't like me, that obviously means there is something wrong with me - I'm either not handsome enough, not charismatic enough, etc...

You should have your friend ask the women at the salon who you went out with why they don't want to date you. And he should press them for honesty. This is the type of feedback you need. Because there is a reason.

I also vote no on professional pictures for your profile. It makes it look like you are trying too hard. With your active social life, you should have plenty of pictures of you out and about and on vacation and such. Those are the best pictures. Crop out your friends if necessary.

I also think you should be on Tinder. That's what most people I know are using (yes, to find relationships.)

October 28, 2015

You should have your friend ask the women at the salon who you went out with why they don't want to date you. And he should press them for honesty. This is the type of feedback you need. Because there is a reason.

You're kidding right?

This is beyond awkward. No way

I also vote no on professional pictures for your profile. It makes it look like you are trying too hard. With your active social life, you should have plenty of pictures of you out and about and on vacation and such. Those are the best pictures. Crop out your friends if necessary.

I truly believe I'm doing myself a disservice if I don't do professional photos because of how much better I look in real life than pics.

October 28, 2015

Your type of thinking is OK if you are looking for sasquatch in the forrest of Pennsylvania, but when it comes to women, you need to improve yourself first.

According to what you have posted, you should have had someone by now.

By the way, my friend lives in PA and she said that he threw rocks at her while camping with her husband. lol

I try very very hard to improve myself in every area possible - that means both superficial and character areas

October 28, 2015

*disclaimer* I am not this shallow at all but I want to point something out here.

OP, you say you would date a women 5-10lbs overweight.

You are 199/200lbs (it went up in your posts by 1lb) and 5ft 10in.

For your height you are around 34.5 lbs overweight for a standard male (figures based upon a male aged 35).

Males in their 20's tend to weigh less.

My now ex was 5ft 10in and 147lbs when we got together, he was 24.

It was only in his thirties that he passed the 168lb weight, he hit 182lbs at his largest at 35 and he cut his portion sizes realising he was just putting weight on and felt rubbish.

Yes he worked out etc etc and he was never skinny, just lean and toned when he weighed the least. He settled looking great at 154lbs. He is 47 now and I would say he weighs around 160lbs max.

Why if you are 34lbs overweight (normal for someone older than you by 9 years) will you only date a woman 5-10lbs overweight?

October 28, 2015

*disclaimer* I am not this shallow at all but I want to point something out here.

OP, you say you would date a women 5-10lbs overweight.
You are 199/200lbs (it went up in your posts by 1lb) and 5ft 10in.

For your height you are around 34.5 lbs overweight for a standard male (figures based upon a male aged 35).
Males in their 20's tend to weigh less.
My now ex was 5ft 10in and 147lbs when we got together, he was 24.
It was only in his thirties that he passed the 168lb weight, he hit 182lbs at his largest at 35 and he cut his portion sizes realising he was just putting weight on and felt rubbish.
Yes he worked out etc etc and he was never skinny, just lean and toned when he weighed the least. He settled looking great at 154lbs. He is 47 now and I would say he weighs around 160lbs max.

Why if you are 34lbs overweight (normal for someone older than you by 9 years) will you only date a woman 5-10lbs overweight?

Huh? I have a natural body builder physique with big arms and shoulders with a narrow waist

I have around 56 inch shoulders with a 32 inch waist line. I look very good in street clothes. I would love to date a pretty female bodybuilder/fitness bodybuilder (the All natural ones look great)

October 28, 2015

You want the honest answer? I don't think men really have any value in the heterosexual dating market. This is why good looking men can post a dating profile and get absolutely zero replies. The same thing never EVER happens with women. Men have to work 50 times harder than women for the same amount of dating success and they may not even get it at the end. My sister put in 1/10 the effort to meet someone I do with 100 times the success.

I have tons of value as a human being. I go out of my way to be great to the people in my circle - I'm ferociously loyal, supportive, generous, caring, etc... I've had plenty people who said one of the nicest people they've ever met...but I just don't think any of that matters. I've taken pride in being a good person and doing right thing for 26 years with no success in dating (although I've had lots of success in making friends).

Thanks for the honest response. It highlights a few things more clearly for me. I just want to challenge your thinking for a second on a couple of points;

You are not "men", you are you. You aren't competing with 1000's of men, because none of them are "you". Human beings are all unique. Sure, we may share some fundamentals, but each of us is a unique collection of attributes.

Success at dating doesn't require you to be hugely attractive to 1000's of woman. It only requires that you share a attraction and bond to a single woman.

There's something else in the language you use when describing the kind of women you're interested in. You talk about them like they're some kind of sports car.. "Think I can get an 8? Someone fit and attractive". Wanting to date attractive women isn't a problem per say, people have their preferences, but you have to understand.. you're objectifying these women.

They are more than how they look, how big their boobs are, how pretty they are. They want to feel a connection, to feel sexy, to feel allowed to have fun and be care free. To feel safe. None of those feelings are about what kind of car you drive, or how much you earn.

You've spent a huge amount of energy turned outwards, trying to project an image, but resist any suggestion of looking inwards. One poster suggested that you ask for feedback from woman who weren't interested in dating you. You immediately shot them down. Why? What are you afraid these women will say about you? Does the thought of having those difficult, honest conversations bother you?

Just to put this in context, I have never had problems getting girlfriends. I put my profiles up and get contacted by at least a few women each week. Never really struggle to find dates.

I am not a super attractive guy, I don't rock a body builders body. I don't earn huge money.

But I'm honest and kind. I can make a woman laugh and feel like she's the only girl in the room. I can listen to her for hours, talk about just about any topic they care to. I ask questions, I listen to the answers. I take an interests in who they are. I'm open to experiences, willing to compromise. I make them feel safe.

You can't "buy off" *good* women with superficial stuff. The best you'll manage is to attract someone superficial and shallow.

Edited October 28, 2015 by neowulf

October 28, 2015

They are more than how they look, how big their boobs are, how pretty they are. They want to feel a connection, to feel sexy, to feel allowed to have fun and be care free. To feel safe.

These are things that apply to everyone and I agree 100 %. I go out of my way to treat people great. Everybody in my circle absolutely adores me for those kind of reasons.

The problem is I just don't meet any women who would be interested in dating me. None of that stuff matters if she doesn't want to date me - I can be the nicest guy in the world but if she wants nothing to do with me, what's the difference?

One poster suggested that you ask for feedback from woman who weren't interested in dating you. You immediately shot them down. Why? What are you afraid these women will say about you? Does the thought of having those difficult, honest conversations bother you?

Because it's a level of incredible awkwardness that I don't even know how to describe.

But I'm honest and kind. I can make a woman laugh and feel like she's the only girl in the room. I can listen to her for hours, talk about just about any topic they care to. I ask questions, I listen to the answers. I take an interests in who they are. I'm open to experiences, willing to compromise. I make them feel safe.

You're preaching to the choir here brother

This is exactly how I've made 100 to 150 friends in my lifetime and make friends everywhere I go (except for laughing part, I'm not great with the jokes)

October 28, 2015

Because it's a level of incredible awkwardness that I don't even know how to describe.

Do you not have a close female friend that you trust that you can ask what they think your problem is? I understand not wanting to ask the guys, they might just make fun of you.

October 28, 2015

Huh? I have a natural body builder physique with big arms and shoulders with a narrow waist

I have around 56 inch shoulders with a 32 inch waist line. I look very good in street clothes. I would love to date a pretty female bodybuilder/fitness bodybuilder (the All natural ones look great)

Ah! This makes more sense, I didn't see this in any of your posts before now.

You do know that this look is not that which most women look for right? 52 in shoulders is pretty damn specialised in terms of who will be attracted to you.

'Some' do but by far, not many. This may be an issue. You need to be looking for women who give you signals before you approach.

Online a big built man can just look really 'big'.

Plus, sorry to say but many men I have met (not via dating) who were over worked were not the brightest sparks. Maybe fill out your profile with books you read, hobbies (not the gym - that is dull) etc.

October 28, 2015

Do you not have a close female friend that you trust that you can ask what they think your problem is? I understand not wanting to ask the guys, they might just make fun of you.

No. Everybody in my life thinks I'm absolutely amazing

The one thing that a couple of my female friends have told me in the past is to not be as shy and talk more to women when I see one I like. I've been doing that this year and results are still atrocious

My life is kind of what you see here - 4 or 5 women on here have said that I'm very handsome. People do that in real life except they say similar things about my personality as well.

October 28, 2015

Ah! This makes more sense, I didn't see this in any of your posts before now.

You do know that this look is not that which most women look for right? 52 in shoulders is pretty damn specialised in terms of who will be attracted to you.

'Some' do but by far, not many. This may be an issue. You need to be looking for women who give you signals before you approach.
Online a big built man can just look really 'big'.
Plus, sorry to say but many men I have met (not via dating) who were over worked were not the brightest sparks. Maybe fill out your profile with books you read, hobbies (not the gym - that is dull) etc.

How do you explain all the buff men in Hollywood who are huge sex symbols? Dwayne johnson, Chris hemsworth, etc...?

I'm not steroid big. People still say I'm healthy and athletic looking.

October 28, 2015

The problem is I just don't meet any women who would be interested in dating me. None of that stuff matters if she doesn't want to date me - I can be the nicest guy in the world but if she wants nothing to do with me, what's the difference?

Ok, so I'm confused. You say that you've made hundreds of friends. So I assume you can just use those skills to strike up conversations with women yeah? From what you've said, you don't "cold approach", because you find it difficult, but I also think you're thinking about it the wrong way.

You're saying you never just strike up conversations with women? Because really, that's how most of dating works. Strike up conversation, chat for a bit, ask her out. That's.. basically it. You have all this stuff going for you, yet your confidence seems non-existent. I think that's a huge hurdle for you.

Because it's a level of incredible awkwardness that I don't even know how to describe.

This here is a serious issue you should be really focusing in on. Yes, it may be uncomfortable to have that conversation, yet it won't kill you. Feeling "awkward" won't kill you. Facing these difficult conversations is how one goes about building character.

Just like cold approaching women. Yes, it's awkward and stressful at first, but eventually, through practice, it becomes easier. It takes courage. Courage is the act of being afraid, yet moving forward regardless.

If you want the outcomes you're chasing, you need to be do the work that's *required*, not the work you'd prefer to be doing or that's easier.

October 28, 2015

How do you explain all the buff men in Hollywood who are huge sex symbols? Dwayne johnson, Chris hemsworth, etc...?

I'm not steroid big. People still say I'm healthy and athletic looking.

Dwayne Johnson is the poster child for self confidence. He's hugely charismatic. Sure, it helps that he's buff and good looking, but rest assured, if he was an arrogant prick, no one would give him the time of day.

Chris Hemsworth is much the same. Just a very chill, laid back, respectful guy.

They're not huge sex symbols *just* because of how they look. They're sex symbols because they look like that and STILL manage to be awesome people.

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