Pandora's Box... To Snoop or Not?

[deadelvis]

But you are the one who has started - by my count - the 37th thread on the subject looking for ostensibly the same advice....

 

Why do you think you are going to get a different answer?

 

Because (no offense) if I only get advice from women who have slept with hundreds of men, worked as a prostitute, and don't disclose that information to their current partner... I don't consider that very unbiased feedback.

 

And objectively you must realize that most people would consider having worked for years as a prostitute to be relevant information, and not disclosing that to your partner would constitute a major breach of trust.

Edited October 26, 2015 by deadelvis

[SammySammy]

Because (no offense) if I only get advice from women who have slept with hundreds of men, worked as a prostitute, and don't disclose that information to their current partner... I don't consider that very unbiased feedback.

 

And objectively you must realize that most people would consider having worked for years as a prostitute to be relevant information, and not disclosing that to your partner would constitute a major breach of trust.

 

That's a lie.

 

Many people, including myself, have given you the same advice as Carrie. Repeatedly.

 

In my opinion, Carrie is probably the best poster on this board. She has been patient, kind and helpful to you. You refuse to accept anyone's advice if they disagree with your psychopathic determination to punish this girl for her past.

[deadelvis]

That's a lie.

 

Many people, including myself, have given you the same advice as Carrie. Repeatedly.

 

In my opinion, Carrie is probably the best poster on this board. She has been patient, kind and helpful to you. You refuse to accept anyone's advice if they disagree with your psychopathic determination to punish this girl for her past.

 

So just to clarify. You think it's none of my business if my girlfriend was a prostitute who serviced hundreds of men, and she's totally justified in lying to me about her past?

 

Because that sounds f***ing crazy to me.

 

And FYI, I'm not punishing anyone. She's happy and loves me. And she's a strict feminist. If she thought I was punishing her or judging her for her past, she'd be out the door in a heartbeat. Don't mistake what I confide on an anonymous forum with the person I am in real life.

[CarrieT]

Because (no offense) if I only get advice from women who have slept with hundreds of men, worked as a prostitute, and don't disclose that information to their current partner... I don't consider that very unbiased feedback.

Ummmm... are you saying that after 37 threads, *I* and my ilk are the only one who has advised you on this matter?

 

 

That's a lie.

 

Many people, including myself, have given you the same advice as Carrie. Repeatedly.

Yea.

 

In my opinion, Carrie is probably the best poster on this board. She has been patient, kind and helpful to you. You refuse to accept anyone's advice if they disagree with your psychopathic determination to punish this girl for her past.

Thank you.

 

Yeah.

[oldshirt]

I haven't read the whole opening post or any of the responses but I will say this - your spouse will be the biggest investment and the biggest factor in determining whether you live a life of health and happiness or one of drudgery and despair.

 

A good spouse will be your biggest asset and your life partner. A bad one will be your biggest tormentor.

 

A healthy, functioning marriage and partnership is often a benifit economically. A bad spouse and a bad or broken marriage can leave you broke and homeless.

 

More people are beaten, attacked, injured and killed by their spouse than by strangers.

 

For those reasons, who you choose as your spouse is one of if not the biggest decision and the decision that will have the biggest impact on your life.

 

So if this is a person you are seriously considering marrying, then yes, I would leave no stone unturned in determining their character and who and what they are.

 

And I wouldn't fault them if they went through your stuff as well.

[deadelvis]

Ummmm... are you saying that after 37 threads, *I* and my ilk are the only one who has advised you on this matter?

 

No, but it's always the extreme ends of the spectrum. On one hand there are the people who say "It's none of your business if she was a serial killer, the past is the past"

 

And on the other hand you have the posters who say "you can't make a ho a housewife. She had sex with more than 3 people? Dump that skank."

 

There seems to be very little "moderate" advice. Nobody who thinks as I do... that it's okay to have a past, but it's also important to be honest with your partner about your sexual history and allow them the opportunity to make an informed decision if they want to pursue a relationship based on the accurate information provided. Lying is never ok.

 

To me, that seems pretty obvious, and I'm always surprised more people on LS don't share that POV.

[deadelvis]

I haven't read the whole opening post or any of the responses but I will say this - your spouse will be the biggest investment and the biggest factor in determining whether you live a life of health and happiness or one of drudgery and despair.

 

A good spouse will be your biggest asset and your life partner. A bad one will be your biggest tormentor.

 

A healthy, functioning marriage and partnership is often a benifit economically. A bad spouse and a bad or broken marriage can leave you broke and homeless.

 

More people are beaten, attacked, injured and killed by their spouse than by strangers.

 

For those reasons, who you choose as your spouse is one of if not the biggest decision and the decision that will have the biggest impact on your life.

 

So if this is a person you are seriously considering marrying, then yes, I would leave no stone unturned in determining their character and who and what they are.

 

And I wouldn't fault them if they went through your stuff as well.

 

Thank you. To me... this seems like sound (and sane) advice.

[CarrieT]

Lying is never ok[/i].

I have ALWAYS agreed with this and asked - repeatedly - since you KNOW she is lying about something, why are you still in the relationship?

[deadelvis]

I have ALWAYS agreed with this and asked - repeatedly - since you KNOW she is lying about something, why are you still in the relationship?

 

Because a woman lying about her sexual history is a lesser transgression than other types of lying. I understand that most women do it, and I don't consider it to be in the same spectrum of deception as other, more generalized types of lying. I assume it's the only thing she lies about, and so far that assumption seems valid. I understand why women lie about their past. I don't think it's a good thing, but I do understand it. However, while I assume most women round down when divulging the number of sexual partners, or omit a few embarrassing stories... omitting things like being a sex worker falls outside the realm of "white lies".

[jen1447]

Because I can't make major life decisions based on the opinions of a few people, especially considering those same people seem to believe I don't deserve to know if my partner was a prostitute who serviced hundreds of customers. I have a hard time accepting that statement. If we can't agree on that statement, then any further advice becomes null and void.

 

Exactly my point - and yet you continue in your quest to find advice that agrees with you. Why? If you won't consider any advice that doesn't support your positions anyway, what's the point in constantly asking for it? And why would you even need support if you're already convinced you're right?

[deadelvis]

Exactly my point - and yet you continue in your quest to find advice that agrees with you. Why? If you won't consider any advice that doesn't support your positions anyway, what's the point in constantly asking for it? And why would you even need support if you're already convinced you're right?

 

Because in my opinion anyone who believes I don't deserve to know if my partner was a prostitute who serviced hundreds of customers has an abnormal view of what constitutes an honest and transparent relationship. I find it hard to believe that those views are anything but extremely marginal.

 

So if someone can't agree with that basic premise (the statement in bold) then any advice on whether or not to snoop through "pandoras pox" is null and void.

 

I have a hard time believing that (statement in bold) is a commonly held belief, and as such, those adhering to that line of thinking can be effectively dismissed as an extreme minority viewpoint and any remaining advice from said individuals is heavily biased and lacking in objectivity.

 

Similarly, I disregard any extremely biased viewpoints from the other end of the spectrum. When someone replies "you can't make a ho a housewife" I also dismiss that advice as a minority viewpoint with limited credibility.

Edited October 26, 2015 by deadelvis

[RecentChange]

Well, dead Elvis, want advice from someone who doesn't have an extremely colorful sexual history? (I am not a total prude, but compared to many here I am!)

 

I am a snooper.... And for the most part I invite my partner to snoop away as well. I do think that if you are thinking about "forever" type stuff, you should be able to disclose to your loved one, and have them accept you completely. I know things about my partner that no one else knows... And he knows dark secrets of my past. Part of loving each other was getting that "out" and supporting each other. And I think hearing those things.... And having a good cry over trauma he went through (and kept burried for years) was one of the most intimate things we have done over our many years together.

 

And it strengthened us, he thought for sure it would taint my feelings for him, but really it just broke my heart that he had to hide things for so long...

 

That said - this relationship you are in - I couldn't imagine being involved in an relationship that is so much damn work, a loved one that is so unstable, a lousy sex life. Fights etc etc etc.

 

I can tell you our first, oh 8 years was smooth sailing. We have had some blips (infidelity on both of our parts) but for the most part we are compatable, and it works without a huge amount of effort and termoil.

 

You should still be in the honey moon this is all fantastic stage of your relationship. If you love drama and angst, stay the course I guess...

 

It's a bit heartless, but some of the best advice my dad ever gave was "don't do crazy". Trying to understand the actions of someone that is mentally ill can be maddening, as their behavior can't be predicted and understood in the same manner as someone who is not suffering from an illness.... It can be some real crazy making - as we see from your many posts on the subject.

[jen1447]

Because in my opinion anyone who believes I don't deserve to know if my partner was a prostitute who serviced hundreds of customers has an abnormal view of what constitutes an honest and transparent relationship. I find it hard to believe that those views are anything but extremely marginal.

 

So if someone can't agree with that basic premise (the statement in bold) then any advice on whether or not to snoop through "pandoras pox" is null and void.

 

I have a hard time believing that (statement in bold) is a commonly held belief, and as such, those adhering to that line of thinking can be effectively dismissed as an extreme minority viewpoint and any remaining advice from said individuals is heavily biased and lacking in objectivity.

 

Right, so Why. Keep. Asking. You already know what you're gonna get - a consistent and steady mix of the same opinions you've gotten all the other times you've asked, some supportive, some critical. The fact that you consider the critical ones null and void for whatever reason does nothing to explain why you keep asking for them, or why you'd even need them in the first place. You're convinced you're right, ok, just go do whatever you think you have to do.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I'm very curious and inquisitive by nature so if something is there, I'll be tempted to snoop BUT what I would find would probably destroy the relationship. Retroactive jealousy is very powerful and most human beings cannot comfortably sit with such an inside view into their partners past. Of course cameras and social make it easier to capture the past but we aren't really built to have the past (and the pasts of others) in our faces all the time.

 

I think giving into that temptation is almost an admittance that you don't trust or can't accept that person. If you can, let their past be and don't look. Let sleeping dogs lie.

[deadelvis]

Right, so Why. Keep. Asking. You already know what you're gonna get - a consistent and steady mix of the same opinions you've gotten all the other times you've asked, some supportive, some critical. The fact that you consider the critical ones null and void for whatever reason does nothing to explain why you keep asking for them, or why you'd even need them in the first place. You're convinced you're right, ok, just go do whatever you think you have to do.

 

Well, by that logic... why ask anything on LS?

 

The answer: Because after you filter out and ignore the advice of those people with extreme viewpoints (on both ends of the spectrum) the remaining advice is generally solid and thought provoking. Unfortunately, the people who post most frequently tend to be those with the most extreme views. And that also seems to be the trend in real life. It's generally people with extreme views who are the loudest about their opinions.

[No_Go]

Ok, here is an advice from a woman who had 3 partners and was a virgin till 27 (here I don't know am I proud or ashamed )

 

DON'T open it. Ever. Under any circumstance. If you want to keep the relationship (and you DO want and you know it... else the tread would not exist).

 

Why:

- if there is nothing new: you'd be beating yourself up that you didn't trust her. You'll start likely to OVERtrust her and this may fire back.

- if there is a major secret: you have the option to either stay and resent her, or go and lose her (I'm sure that if the later was easy for you, you'd have done it 100 times so far).

 

So ZERO gain for you to open the box.

 

I'm experiencing something similar with my BF: I suspect something shady in his past, and even posted here and attempted to discover it myself... but in the end, I more and more realize I'm not willing to leave him, he has changed (proven with his behaviors), and apart for proving my point that he's hiding something from me, I'll not gain much from opening the Pandora's box... So I've decided to let it be (although I warned him that if I discover a reason to distrust him later, even after years, it will not be repairable... this put the ball in his court. My investigation ended)

 

 

Because (no offense) if I only get advice from women who have slept with hundreds of men, worked as a prostitute, and don't disclose that information to their current partner... I don't consider that very unbiased feedback.

 

And objectively you must realize that most people would consider having worked for years as a prostitute to be relevant information, and not disclosing that to your partner would constitute a major breach of trust.

[deadelvis]

Ok, here is an advice from a woman who had 3 partners and was a virgin till 27 (here I don't know am I proud or ashamed )

 

DON'T open it. Ever. Under any circumstance. If you want to keep the relationship (and you DO want and you know it... else the tread would not exist).

 

Why:

- if there is nothing new: you'd be beating yourself up that you didn't trust her. You'll start likely to OVERtrust her and this may fire back.

- if there is a major secret: you have the option to either stay and resent her, or go and lose her (I'm sure that if the later was easy for you, you'd have done it 100 times so far).

 

So ZERO gain for you to open the box.

 

I'm experiencing something similar with my BF: I suspect something shady in his past, and even posted here and attempted to discover it myself... but in the end, I more and more realize I'm not willing to leave him, he has changed (proven with his behaviors), and apart for proving my point that he's hiding something from me, I'll not gain much from opening the Pandora's box... So I've decided to let it be (although I warned him that if I discover a reason to distrust him later, even after years, it will not be repairable... this put the ball in his court. My investigation ended)

 

Now THAT is IMO solid advice. The only thing I would question is "- if there is nothing new: you'd be beating yourself up that you didn't trust her. You'll start likely to OVERtrust her and this may fire back."

 

If there were no big surprises I'd probably be so happy and feel so bad for not trusting her that I would indeed OVERtrust her. But if she was really being honest and this was all just paranoia, then I think she deserves that.

[blackcat777]

No matter what you do or don't do, it sounds like this woman is simply not emotionally available to have a healthy relationship. SHE needs to work on HERSELF first, which, unfortunately, is nothing you can do.

 

You know the saying, you can lead a horse to water...

 

If you can't live with the torment of the fallout of her condition--weird social habits, disinterest in sex, dark secrets--the best thing to do would be to break it off.

 

If one of you is unfit for a relationship, it's going to build up tons of negative associations between the two of you. *Negative associations KILL attraction.*

 

If you love her, tell her you want to help her, support her, be there for her, 100%. Unfortunately, it's not a fair relationship if she can't be vulnerable with you. Intimacy is vulnerability.

 

Sadly, especially when people you love are going through major changes, they have to do their own thing before they are stable enough to be in a relationship.

 

I'm going to vote for if you love her, let her go... Let her know that if she wants to commit to a functional relationship, you'll support her 100% (if that is what you want!). If she's not able to do that, wish her the best.

 

Then go NC. Stay NC.

 

She may return, but do NOT reengage the relationship until she lays all her cards on the table and does the work to show you she wants to make it work.

 

And don't wait for her... take care of yourself.

 

This way, you're only open to good things. You're giving her the option to be a good thing, if that's what she wants; if she doesn't, you're free for someone else who does.

 

All you can really do is set her free, at this point. You're going in circles.

 

I also second the vote for letting her know you found the box/diary/whatever, but didn't open it... though the suspense is killing you. Perfect segway to voice all your concerns. You don't deserve to live in someone else's limbo.

[No_Go]

The reason I wrote that overtrusting may itself cause problems is that people tend to project (here he/she was honest, he/she was honest for absolutely everything), which by itself can be a boundary problem

 

But I agree this'll be the best case scenario and your GF will deserve apologies;)

 

 

 

Now THAT is IMO solid advice. The only thing I would question is "- if there is nothing new: you'd be beating yourself up that you didn't trust her. You'll start likely to OVERtrust her and this may fire back."

 

If there were no big surprises I'd probably be so happy and feel so bad for not trusting her that I would indeed OVERtrust her. But if she was really being honest and this was all just paranoia, then I think she deserves that.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I think when people want to snoop, they are basically saying that they don't trust their partners anyway.

 

I mean, if you trusted your partner, you most likely would feel no urge to snoop. I've been honest with my partner about my sexual past. I might not go into explicit detail but he knows how many men I've slept with and that I've been a cheat in the past. He might not know all my sexual history secrets but I'm sure I don't know all of his anyway and people are entitled to their secrets so long as there secrets do not hurt anyone.

 

It is arguable/debatable that a person's past before a relationship is largely irrelevant unless you are trying to suss out values/deal breakers that may take the form of prostitution, porn addiction, polygamy etc as this may influence your security in the relationship. Even so, this past may have helped build them into a more decent partner today; possibly taught them self-control or new values or even made them realise they dislike aspects of that lifestyle. A male friend of mine thought his dream was a gf he could have threesomes with, til he got her and found the threesomes made him feel guilty, disgusted, jealous, neglected and hurt. He and his gf have since split and he met a new woman he is now exclusive with (his ex is now with a woman.) Sometimes our pasts change us and push us in new directions. It doesn't mean it's easy for our new partners to hear about our wild youthful explorations (the time she slept with 5 men in a week or he went to a prostitute).

 

If you don't trust your partner to the extent that you have become obsessed with their past or really want to snoop, it may mean that you know something is not right and you just want to validate that feeling by snooping and finding something to 'prove' your feeling.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Nikki Sahagin

[jen1447]

Well, by that logic... why ask anything on LS?

 

The answer: Because after you filter out and ignore the advice of those people with extreme viewpoints (on both ends of the spectrum) the remaining advice is generally solid and thought provoking. Unfortunately, the people who post most frequently tend to be those with the most extreme views. And that also seems to be the trend in real life. It's generally people with extreme views who are the loudest about their opinions.

 

The point of asking any question, for an intellectually honest person, is to have your ideas challenged and critiqued so you can refine your thinking in the pursuit of truth, not to filter out ideas you don't like. But never mind that. The fact is, you don't only get 'extreme' negative views, you get supportive views. But you ignore those too and do nothing and keep asking the same questions. It's like you're a drama junkie.

 

You still haven't answered this - if you already know you're right about this 'Pandora's Box,' which you obvs think you are, why do you need anyone's further input at all and why don't you just open it/[insert latest cause here]?

[Rejected Rosebud]

Yes.

 

 

How much more do you need? She isn't the one for you.

 

Finding out that there were really 100 guys, and that she was really an escort 5 times instead of 1, and reading that she enjoyed her past sexual exploits is not going to make things better or worse for you. It will just give you more to worry and fret about; more to compare yourself to.

 

It's going to give him more to use against this girlfriend of his, to berate her with and to keep her hating on herself. She already refuses to leave the house.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Here is the way it is supposed to go, for healthy people: You meet them, you are attracted, you date them, you see if your lives are complementary, you see if your values are complementary, you start to develop intimacy and trust, you establish that firmly, then you realize that you A) ACCEPT THEM FOR WHO THEY ARE and want to keep them close to you in your life. You might move in together, or 2) you realize you are not compatible and break up.

 

All the ugly stuff you post about??? Not even a part of it.

 

PS I have had sex with 2 guys in my life and obviously haven't been a prostitute. So far. .

Edited October 27, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

[road]

When single and you meet someone and start a relationship both of your past romantic relationships should never be discussed.

 

 

Two areas are STD's and virgin or not are open to ask. Otherwise what will come out is things that can never be unheard and will haunt your for as long as your relationship lasts.

 

 

There is no reason to be relentlessly haunted.

[deadelvis]

 

Here is the way it is supposed to go, for healthy people: You meet them, you are attracted, you date them, you see if your lives are complementary, you see if your values are complementary, you start to develop intimacy and trust, you establish that firmly, then you realize that you A) ACCEPT THEM FOR WHO THEY ARE and want to keep them close to you in your life. You might move in together, or 2) you realize you are not compatible and break up.

 

 

When single and you meet someone and start a relationship both of your past romantic relationships should never be discussed.

Two areas are STD's and virgin or not are open to ask. Otherwise what will come out is things that can never be unheard and will haunt your for as long as your relationship lasts.

There is no reason to be relentlessly haunted.

 

Both of those scenarios can only exist under normal conditions, when people are honest with each other and you're not dealing with extraordinary circumstances. I've never had any of these problems with other women, simply because they were honest and upfront about their lives, and there were no lingering questions about prostitution and lying. With other previous partners, the conversation of our sexual history was a short and painless conversation. This is the first time I've had to deal with someone who lies about their past, and seems to have all these crazy skeletons in their closet. And honestly I'm not exactly sure how I'm even supposed to handle this kind of situation. All I want to know is if this woman was some kind of prostitute or porn star something. Don't get the impression that I'm sitting here asking her which positions she had sex with which people. At this point it's more like I just want to get an idea if she was a prostitute who's had sex with hundreds of people, or just a normal girl who had a regular sex life just like everyone else I know. But with all the dishonesty and secrecy, makes it difficult to believe anything she tells me. And I've always got the feeling like she's keeping some dark secrets. It's difficult to explain, but sometimes your gut just tells you that a person is hiding something.