If a friend said this to you, would you call them out on it?

October 26, 2015

I've been friends with Jade for 5 years. She's about 20 years older than me and we meet up every few months (she lives about 3.5 hours away) for dinner and/or drinks. Last night we met for dinner and I was being candid with her about some of my frustration with my social and work life where I live. She knows I had a hard time adjusting to life here, coming from a big city to a small rural area. She said to me, "I want to say something, but I am afraid of hurting your feelings."

"I'll tell you if my feelings are hurt; just tell me what you want to say," I replied.

"Well," she said, "do you think you are an under-achiever?"

I was really taken aback, so much so that I couldn't act on my surprise in the moment, such as by replying, "Why do you ask," or, "Do YOU think I am?" Instead I replied, honestly, "No, if anything I think I am and always have been an over-achiever."

"Oh," she answered. She then told me that her husband, who also has known me for five years, said to her a few days ago when my name came up, "Green Cove is a classic under-achiever."

After I got home, I felt more offended than I realized at the time. First of all, I'd never tell someone a negative comment a third party said about them, or only in the rarest circumstances. Secondly, I've never in my life been called an underachiever and it's so not something I identify with that to be called such is ridiculous. But mostly, I'm flabbergasted that this friend of five whole years would perceive me this way, and also, have the nerve to actually ask/tell me such a thing. I can't imagine ever saying that to someone unless it was out of concern for them somehow...but I'd never use the term "underachiever."

I'm thinking about addressing this with her--saying something along the lines of, "I feel a bit confused by your question from dinner last night--have you been hanging out with my twin who happens to be the opposite of me? Because I don't know what to make of our friendship if the perception you have of me is that I'm an underachiever. Please explain?"

What do you make of this situation? Do others of you feel her question and parroting of her husband's words (not to mention his words themselves) were rude/inappropriate? What would you do in my shoes?

October 26, 2015

It wasn't the nicest thing but I would follow up & ask her why she thinks that. It may be utter BS in which case you ignore her but if there is a grain of truth in there & it's something you want to address. . . perhaps it's a blessing in disguise.

October 26, 2015

But that's the thing that makes it so...wtf: there ISN'T a grain of truth to it. The only thing about the time during which she has known me is that many things did not turn out like I'd hoped and like I'd TRIED FOR. That's hardly "underachieving." And my past is full of scholastic, artistic, and career success.

I really feel like if this is how she and her husband perceive me, then we haven't been communicating on the same...plane...this whole time.

October 26, 2015

I think I would have to ask my friend EXACTLY what she meant by "underachiever." I'd want specific examples. Then, I would decide what I felt defined an underachiever because that might be something completely different in your opinion. People have different ideas of success. My cousin got her PhD but never used it for a career path. She decided to stay home and raise her kids because that is what she wanted to do. Some might say she is an underachiever, but she does not feel that way.

I would also want to know exactly why she felt the need to tell you what her husband thought. Maybe she was genuinely trying to help you but didn't go about it the right way. I think it's worth considering the husband's opinion if you have known him for 5 years. I feel that his opinion of success if probably different than yours, though.

October 26, 2015

I think I would have to ask my friend EXACTLY what she meant by "underachiever." I'd want specific examples. Then, I would decide what I felt defined an underachiever because that might be something completely different in your opinion. People have different ideas of success. My cousin got her PhD but never used it for a career path. She decided to stay home and raise her kids because that is what she wanted to do. Some might say she is an underachiever, but she does not feel that way.

I just feel that whatever the personal definition of "underachiever," it's just not a very nice thing to call someone. That's why I'm confused; it just didn't feel like it came from a truly benign place--or I don't see how it could.

I would also want to know exactly why she felt the need to tell you what her husband thought. Maybe she was genuinely trying to help you but didn't go about it the right way. I think it's worth considering the husband's opinion if you have known him for 5 years. I feel that his opinion of success if probably different than yours, though.

Which is ??? given that he was a gym teacher. That's not exactly widely-considered to model a pinnacle of success. If he were, say, an investment banker, then yes, I'd say we have different ideas of success. Also, no, he doesn't know me that well; Jade is more my friend and I've seen him on a few occasions but he and I have never had any substantive conversation.

I think what also hurts is that they know how hard things were for me here; they know how hard I hunted for jobs when I first got here and how many setbacks I had. So to sum that up as "underachieving" just feels especially hurtful and frankly, "un-friend"-like.

October 26, 2015

If you don't have any concerns about being an under-achiever then, frankly, f*ck what they think. It's irrelevant.

I wouldn't inquire about it further, or give it another moment's thought.

October 26, 2015

If you don't have any concerns about being an under-achiever then, frankly, f*ck what they think. It's irrelevant.

I wouldn't inquire about it further, or give it another moment's thought.

It's just that it feels so absurd, it makes me question the friendship. I mean, if I think someone is an underachiever, I don't want to be friends with them. All my friends are accomplished, motivated people--as am I. I don't care what they think...but I do care what kinds of friends they are showing themselves to be. Which is what? That's what I need help figuring out.

I wish I could just ignore it but it just seemed like a rather rude, judgmental not to mention completely WRONG thing to say.

October 26, 2015

The question was posed to you in a way that you could answer according to your perception. You may well consider yourself an over achiever.

Most times when we confide and ask for direct feedback or are cross questioned, its to get the talker to rethink their views.

I recall one time someone making a statement that I absolutely refused to see their view point or how they could conclude . Then after considerable mulling...it dawned on me...Yup! I am a procrastinator as well as a Go getter. Contingent on the circumstance both can be true. So While it may seem insulting to procrastinate, I have found at times its allowing myself time to review the data or circumstance and giving a more attuned result.

Not sure if this is true for you...yet sometimes if we review things and find some truth, its worth simply thanking the person or standing ground...Sounds like your pride was hurt....and that deserves acknowledged....

October 26, 2015

The question was posed to you in a way that you could answer according to your perception. You may well consider yourself an over achiever.

Most times when we confide and ask for direct feedback or are cross questioned, its to get the talker to rethink their views.

So are you saying that she asked me, "Do you think you're an underachiever?" in order to get me to rethink what I believed about myself?

And yes, it's my pride that has taken a bit of a hit. I mean, the term "underachiever" is a sweeping assessment of ALL of a person's accomplishments and efforts as "less-than." And that's why I'm so baffled because I am a highly accomplished person and I know Jade and her husband know that. I just don't see how you can use that term and not mean it as an insult?

October 26, 2015

If you don't have any concerns about being an under-achiever then, frankly, f*ck what they think. It's irrelevant.

I wouldn't inquire about it further, or give it another moment's thought.

Yeah... good post...and I would add they they sound like classic snobs that think they are better than everybody else, time for a new friend.

October 26, 2015

And yes, it's my pride that has taken a bit of a hit. I mean, the term "underachiever" is a sweeping assessment of ALL of a person's accomplishments and efforts as "less-than." And that's why I'm so baffled because I am a highly accomplished person and I know Jade and her husband know that. I just don't see how you can use that term and not mean it as an insult?

It could be a compliment. Or maybe I'm taking it that way because I've been accused of the same.

A reasonable take could be that you're a person of vast potential who perhaps hasn't lived up to that potential. I'm an accomplished professional with a couple of degrees in my pocket, and that might still apply to me. Except maybe for the "vast" part.

But I still wouldn't worry about it.

October 26, 2015

It could be a compliment. Or maybe I'm taking it that way because I've been accused of the same.

A reasonable take could be that you're a person of vast potential who perhaps hasn't lived up to that potential. I'm an accomplished professional with a couple of degrees in my pocket, and that might still apply to me. Except maybe for the "vast" part.

But I still wouldn't worry about it.

Ha! My mom suggested the same thing--that it was meant as a compliment in that they were acknowledging that my current work and life situation do not tap into my real potential.

It's just hurtful because as a person who prides herself on her work ethic and striving for excellence always, to be told I am an "underachiever" is like a punch in the face. Of course I'm not happy that my current situation does not begin to reflect or utilize my full potential. I am hyper-aware of that fact; it affects me every day; and I am consistently trying to change my situation to reflect more of what I am truly capable of. It plainly and simply hurt my feelings that I could even be PERCEIVED that way.

You really think it's a compliment?

October 26, 2015

You really think it's a compliment?

I think it can be. But your friend and her husband may be jerks for all I know. All I know for sure is that it's not worth worrying about.

October 26, 2015

I think it can be. But your friend and her husband may be jerks for all I know. All I know for sure is that it's not worth worrying about.

I'm just trying to be more conscientious about the kinds of people I let into my life. I want to be surrounded by positive people, who inspire me with their energetic and honest approach to life, and most importantly, who support me 100% and believe in me and want to see me be happy and find success however I define it. Is a statement like the one made by Jade a red flag that Jade (and by default, her husband) are not good friends?

Edited October 26, 2015 by GreenCove

October 26, 2015

I agree it was a faux-pas for her to say that. The fact that she prefaced her remarks in the way that she did, signifies that she understood that she was potentially stepping over a line.

But I also think that she may have meant it as a gentle nudge to suggest that you are not living up to your potential, and to get you to think about whether you have been going about things in a strategic way.

If you have been pretty close, I would give her the benefit of the doubt that she was trying to help but did not have enough sensitivity. In other words, she took a risk that she would offend you because she cares about you and can see that you are unhappy. And I would talk to her about it, both in the sense of letting her know that you were hurt, but also (perhaps) as a way of learning some helpful stuff about how you may present to other people.

If you don't think any of that applies, then just disengage gradually over time.

October 26, 2015

Ha! My mom suggested the same thing--that it was meant as a compliment in that they were acknowledging that my current work and life situation do not tap into my real potential.

I think that is probably what the friend's husband meant. Still, I agree with you that it's not particularly nice to say. If I felt that way about someone, I would likely keep it to myself because it's not really my business. It's also not really my place to make that type of judgement about someone.

Do you think you are so hurt by the comment because you also judge yourself very harshly for the career choices you have made? If I recall, you have said that you are unsatisfied with your current job and have considered going back to finish your PhD.

I guess you can either probe the comment further or brush it off. I understand the hurt feelings though, but, honestly, if you don't know the husband that well, I'd say to just brush it off.

October 26, 2015

I think that is probably what the friend's husband meant. Still, I agree with you that it's not particularly nice to say. If I felt that way about someone, I would likely keep it to myself because it's not really my business. It's also not really my place to make that type of judgement about someone.

Do you think you are so hurt by the comment because you also judge yourself very harshly for the career choices you have made? If I recall, you have said that you are unsatisfied with your current job and have considered going back to finish your PhD.

I guess you can either probe the comment further or brush it off. I understand the hurt feelings though, but, honestly, if you don't know the husband that well, I'd say to just brush it off.

I judge myself for not seizing the courage to be the artist I know I am. I am doing everything I can in my therapy and in small, daily steps to prioritize finishing my book (that I got about half-way through before my big breakup). I am angry at myself for not giving due credit to my talent as a creative artist. (And, I have realized that going back to grad school for my PhD is a form of cop-out, for me, for pursuing my artistic dreams.) But I not only pride myself, I GET OFF on my competitive nature, that causes me always to want to be excellent at what I do; I do not ever settle for second best. So to have the word "underachiever" applied to me in any way by my own friends HURTS.

I'm afraid if I brush it off, I won't be able to think about this friend in the same way.

October 26, 2015

Ouch, "underachiever" that must have stung.

This couple clearly have no clue.

Maybe it's time to sever the friendship.

October 26, 2015

I sense that as the OP stated, 2nd place is not an option.

self imposed standards that maybe unrealistic can be spoken too thru the therapy sessions. I encourage you to explore that with a trained counselor. It now makes sense when someone says underachiever ,how itgoes against your core mantra.

You'll know when its time to dive in to your creative passion, currently you are doing well at adjusting to some life changes.

Honesty sometimes requires confronting our shortcomings and being a work in progress... so if thats what is defined as an underachiever.. we each have work to do..

October 27, 2015

Definitely a messed up thing to say to someone.

My personal rule of thumb is I don't hit people with my adjective, I give them examples first, if not exclusively. The problem being, the term "underachiever" could mean any number of things and without context all it does is send the person into a tailspin wondering what you meant by that.

I assume that this is a person's whose opinion that you respect, otherwise you wouldn't be friends for 5 years. So it makes sense that you simply didn't write it off as nonesense.

That being said, instead of festering I would ask them specifically what they mean before getting angry or dismissing it.

October 27, 2015

I judge myself for not seizing the courage to be the artist I know I am. I am doing everything I can in my therapy and in small, daily steps to prioritize finishing my book (that I got about half-way through before my big breakup). I am angry at myself for not giving due credit to my talent as a creative artist. (And, I have realized that going back to grad school for my PhD is a form of cop-out, for me, for pursuing my artistic dreams.) But I not only pride myself, I GET OFF on my competitive nature, that causes me always to want to be excellent at what I do; I do not ever settle for second best. So to have the word "underachiever" applied to me in any way by my own friends HURTS.

I'm afraid if I brush it off, I won't be able to think about this friend in the same way.

I understand why it hurt. I think it's a hurtful thing to say to someone. I don't see a problem with just asking the friend what they meant by it and telling her that it hurt your feelings. Because honestly, if you can't communicate that, what is the point of the friendship?

In the past, I've been in situations where I felt my feelings were hurt by a friend, and I didn't speak up. In hindsight, I wish I had said something because I ended up ruminating about it and holding a grudge.

October 27, 2015

I understand why it hurt. I think it's a hurtful thing to say to someone. I don't see a problem with just asking the friend what they meant by it and telling her that it hurt your feelings. Because honestly, if you can't communicate that, what is the point of the friendship?

In the past, I've been in situations where I felt my feelings were hurt by a friend, and I didn't speak up. In hindsight, I wish I had said something because I ended up ruminating about it and holding a grudge.

You are right on all counts. I haven't said anything to Jade yet because I am aware that some of my reaction to it has nothing to do with her at all--in terms of the things I said in a previous post I already was beating myself up about. Also just a sadness that so many things in the past 5 or so years have been so, so difficult for me--a truly challenging period in my life on many counts--and the one thing I have felt like I can hold on to as a point of pride is that I NEVER gave up trying, and carried myself with grace and dignity through everything, even when I thought I might fall apart. It hurts to think that on top of feeling very alone through much of this time, it wasn't evident to someone who is my friend how much I have overcome, and with aplomb. It hurts that someone looking in from the outside could sum up my experience as "underachieving."

When I address it with Jade, I have to remember that she could not possibly have known how deep that word, "under-achiever," cuts for me right now, even though I know it doesn't actually apply to me. So I have to separate that stuff out from just the general insensitivity of ever using that word with someone, and simply ask her what she and her husband meant by it. Because you're right: if you can't have these kinds of conversations with friends, then indeed what IS the point of the friendship?

October 27, 2015

When I think of the term "underachiever", I think of someone who doesn't even try to improve themselves. That doesn't sound like you.

Is a person an underachiever for not attaining things in life or for lack of trying?

October 27, 2015

If I were her husband, I'd be upset she said that to you!

"Underachiever" can mean different things to different people. Maybe for them it means a lack of confidence in your abilities as an artist that has prevented you from being all you can be.

I would ask her exactly what she meant, since it bothers you a lot.

October 27, 2015

When I think of the term "underachiever", I think of someone who doesn't even try to improve themselves. That doesn't sound like you.

Is a person an underachiever for not attaining things in life or for lack of trying?

Exactly. I feel like "underachiever" commonly connotes a lack of gumption to try for anything, just kind-of coasting and seeing or feeling no need to be any different. That's never applied to me, and anyone who knows me should know that. In fact, I told one of my coworkers today about this incident, and she looked at me, incredulous, and said, "What?!?!"

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