ikrzys Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 Having a hard time moving on I have done some research and I came across BPD/NPD Perhaps this is why I'm having trouble moving on Her mother told me the daughter has some of the traits Scapegoating Black white thinking Maybe someone can give me advice if they agree with We were together for 2 years and two months Let me tell you my part of the story I keep hearing how I'm such an ******* but listen my side We started off as co workers in oreilly auto parts In the beginning she started flirting with me and I became interested so I started flirting back We started hanging out and becoming closer together Couple weeks go by and she asks me to go to Her friends house NYE 2012-2013 Middle of the night at 12 am she lunges towards me and kisses me This makes me think she wants to be closer Another week goes by and we go to a work party together End of the night while driving her home,she asks me if I want to know something funny. I'm like sure what is it? She asks me do I know how much she wants to **** me Me having feelings for her made me think this is next step towards a relationship We arrive at her house and we end up having sex for a little Two weeks later,during her closing shift,I decide to bring her flowers and ask her maybe if she would be interested in being more than friends She denied me and told me that she doesn't know what she wants At this moment I felt led on Making out with me,having sex with me,hanging out and texting like a couple,all while flirting with me and she doesn't know what she wants? What the hell is up with that? I started to ask her what the heck is your problem She told me she doesn't want to hurt me Obviosuly she didn't notice that she already did hurt me Next couple months were brutal Working as coworkers and going through all of that She continued to visit me at the end of her shift and continued talking to me and flirting with me as if nothing even happened I started to meet new people that told me she is a big flirt and just likes to mess around with guys I figured out she was talking to multiple guys while leading me on I should have taken this as advice and just left the girl alone She claims she was single so she can do whatever she wants Some time goes by and she invited me over to her house This time she is the one that asks me out I decided to forgive her and accepted it We started going out 5/12/13 Next couple months were amazing We were in love We acted as a amazing couple and had regular couple activities From may-dec 2013 everything was going good. She was attending school I was attending school and we still found time for ourselves My last day of classes was Dec 12 2013 This was the day we last had sex This means we had no sex for year and a half from today This was the turning point for us We continued being together because I loved her and wanted to work the intimacy issues out but she never wanted to do anything about it and this is what got me fed up I tried talking to her to see,If her feelings changed or if she is no longer attracted to me She said she loved me and it's because of problems like her weight why we don't have sex I wanted to help her and I understood However it seemed as if I was the one ever doing anything about it For Valentine's Day 2014 I made a plan to take her keys from purse to open up her car and place flowers and a ring to surprise her At the end of her shift,she opened her car and was surprised However while going inside,one of my friends told her happy vday and she said she isn't really feeling it My heart dropped when i heard this Eventually I let it go and forgot about it Next couple months go by and she gets a new job She started the job in nov 2014 and currently works there up in till we broke up We started seeing each other less because her schedule consisted of closing shifts which were 1-9 My schedule is a set schedule that is 5:30-4pm and I'm off weekends She worked weekends however so it was difficult to see her During this span,I would text her and she started becoming distant Claiming that she doesn't have time to text me and can't text me Later on I figured out she was texting during her work shift so she lied to me I have caught her in multiple lies and have been told she is a liar by people that know her from the past For some reason I was never hesitant and always trusted her I loved her for who she is and what she looks like and I never had a problem with her weight or anything else Even though she knew this,many things came out of here mouth that I could not understand why she said these things to me She would tell me she wants to go under a rock and die because she is hideous That she is worthless She always asked me if I love her Faked breaking up with me countless of times She walked out of my car and slammed the car door and said she is done and than within minutes apologizing and saying she is a bad person Treated me like **** countless times Had Crazy mood swings Yelled at me at her home and in public and many more things that made me very confused She has two different personalities when she is at home and when she is out with her friends/coworkers Around her friends She has this personality of being down to earth Me knowing this got me to the point where I was jealous whenever I hung out with her around other people I saw how she was around them and than hated how she was around me behind closed doors I could not understand Around people that she loves Like me her mom and her dad She treats us way different than she does her friends Towards us she screams and shouts and says rude things Her dad is the one that she treats like complete **** I can't understand why she talks down to him the way she does She always told me how come I don't do this and that but She wanted to meet my parents more and I tried to make this happen I had many things going on such as class's for my cdl and errand I had to run She has met my parents twice I admit that but I wanted for her to meet them more but I was afraid if she treats me the way she does How will she treat me in front of them ? My parents are also very busy people They own 4 homes and they are barely ever home so it was a conflict to have her meet them with her schedule and mine There was days I could have invited her but if our relationship was going towards **** Why would I want to have her around my parents She was already pretending to break up with me plenty of times and telling me she is done and she gives up How am I supposed to treat her like a gf and go out places with her if she treats me this way? Add in the fact that we have no emotional attachment due to the lack of intimacy No kissing No sex No foreplay What do you think was going on in my mind ? I didn't expect the relationship to go on but I kept trying to fix and work on things She started comparing me to other people and our relationship to other couples relationships How they take pictures and we don't I have tried taking pictures but she always said she looked like **** so eventually I stopped trying and I admit that I had my times where I was self conscious and didn't want to take any pictures She complained that I won't let her spend time with her friends I had no problem about this In the beginning of the relationship I was hanging out with a old friend of mine that was a girl and she told me that's not right So from then on I didn't hang out with friends that are girls She complained that she can't hang out with guy friends but I never stopped her from doing so I just said how is it fair that I can't do that but you can She told me back than she thought differently Recently her mom has been divorced for the second time after spending 18years with the man I think this is what changed her the most She compares me to him That I'll leave her just like he did to her mom That we both are similar And both have same personalities Even though we are two completely different people I have always done things for her and her mom I mowed the lawn, shoveled the snow, raked the leaves, washed the dishes took care of their house for a month while they went to Poland helped around the house with gardening, building a wooden fence , helping them take everything out of their basement after it flooded Took care of errands Brought over many groceries without even asking Called places to take care of things for her Did car maintenance Went on regular walks with the dogs Fixed electronics for them And many more things I can't think of at this moment I understand that there are problems that I caused But I always was trying to work and fix things Just alone the fact that I spent a year and a half without sex should mean I love her I never cheated and I can say this from the bottom of my heart Do the many things I did for them not show that I love her ? She asked for a break not to long ago and she gave me the reason that she wants to work on herself and be better for me I didn't want a break so I talked to her about it Than she wanted space I tried giving her space but it was so hard not to text her I didn't text her as much as normal but I did ask what exactly do you mean by space Like no contact at all She said that's what she wanted but in like how can you want no contact with me because you want to work on your weight which is something I have no problem with at all I told her I don't mind you going to the gym Little by little I started pulling out more information from her That a part of her doesn't she us together anymore She also told me in the beginning I was driving her to classes to get over her ex before me Around when she asked for the break, she told me she still has dreams about her ex I don't know if she was trying to annoy me or hurt me I told her I really don't want to be with someone that doesn't know what they want and doesn't see a future with me I understand we argued but that is because I was tired of working on things by myself and her never wanting to try to fix things My decision was wither we break up and go our seperate ways Or we both give it out all I told her this She asked to be friends I told her I can't due to what she has put me through She decided that she wanted to both give it our all It did not seem like she wanted to give it her all so I talked to her about meeting up and finally deciding what is best We decided to talk after work We talked about everything I wanted to work things out She wanted to just give up and end the relationship She thought it was the best choice So we decided to end it even though it's what I didn't want but couldn't force her We went our seperate ways and I met her at her house just to make sure she is ok after the drive home and that she didn't hurt herself or anything Before she was about to go inside her hide She said she doesn't know if this is the right choice so she wanted to talk the next day after work She cried so much and told me she doesn't want to lose me I never saw her cry so much as I did in this one night Next day came I called her a couple times She answered in a aggravated tone and I asked her do you still want to talk since I valued her opinion She said no she doesn't want to and she hung up because she had to go to work I went to her mothers workplace and talked to her and her mother guaranteed that she does not want to break up Her mom told me to give her time So I texted her that I'll give you time And write When you need me let me know A day or two went by and I was uncertain if we were already broken up for sure since she wanted to talk the next day after we technically broke up I decide to call her and she didn't answer I went to her house Saturday and tried talking to her She was mad that I wrote I'll give her time but here I am next day trying to talk to her I tried talking to her about what her choice was because it was bothering me so much but knowing what is going on She had plans to go out with her friend Saturday night so she told me to come by sunday since she is having a bbq and later going to a friends house for a bonfire I texted her later that night asking if it's ok if I come at this and this time since I had a funeral wake to attend to and I didn't know what time she is going to the bonfire She never replied so I never came by I thought that it was a sign she doesn't want to talk She got my hopes up at the end by telling me her cousin and her bf took 4 breaks and they were dating other people One of my close friends happens to know her cousin and out of curiosity asked her if this is true Her cousin became mad and said that none of that is true She texted my ex asking her why she's making bull**** up My ex claimed that she never said that and denied ever saying it and said that I making stuff up because I'm hurt When I figured out she lied I texted her after a four weeks of no contact And called her out for lying She told me that she didn't deny saying that I took pictures of our messages and I showed them to her cousin and her cousin said that she is a big liar Why would you tell me lies to get my hopes up and lead me on I have heard she is talking **** about me from multiple people That supposedly we weren't seeing eye to eye and that we grew apart She also lied to me that she can't text at work but when I saw her phone one day she had like 10 contacts texting her throughout her workday so she lied to me about that What the heck did I go through I'm so confused Did she ever love me or was she just stringing me along and she wanted to be friends incSe she couldn't find anything better I love this girl for everything she was and excepted her for all her flaws She is already currently talking to other guys so I feel like she never even loved me How is it possible for her to move on like that on the sheet emotionally detached yourself way before she tried breaking up with me Her mom's second husband left her after being together for 18 years He told me I would have a ****ed up life with them and to really think about if I really want to be with them Her mom supposedly said Sex makes her feel like she is weak and hasn't put out for him in years Her mom also asked me three months ago to move-in help them pay their mortgage since her husband is leaving Is it possible that her mom talked her out of this and want to find someone that they could string along and have them pay off their house Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated Here are some things to backup why I think she has NPD/BPD In the beginning,we would have sex very often I understand that was probably during the idealization phase She would do anything sexual during this time As time went on She told me so no longer wanted to do this or that and always gave me excuses I think a big give away is how the stepdad told me that the mother claims she feels weak when she is intimate She probably was to afraid of engulfment especially since it was her second husband My ex told me she wants to make love to me but she can't That's very weird She liked doing crazy things such as me being rough but I guess once we started having more normal sex Like making love is when she shut down She also had many problems with her self image so that has a big impact on her self esteem as well They have 3 dogs which they always claimed that they love them unconditionally no matter how the dog is treated The daughter also had a stuffed cow that she slept with all the time This cow was given to her when she was a young girl I believe I heard her talking to the cow once It's also ironic that she doesn't eat beef She told me she saw a cow and she feel in love with them and that why she doesn't eat them I'm guessing maybe since she is attached to this stuffed cow That it has something to do with her not eating beef The more I read about BPD The more things start to click I think the craziest is that she told me she pushed all her past bfs away and that she was the one to make them break up with her Whenever I watched a movie with sexy girls she would ask me if I'm getting a hard on or that I should go have sex with them Extreme signs of jealousy Even things that I saw on facebook other girls posting I went to lunch one day with my friend. She told me she went through my whole friend list to see what she looks like Can you say red flag.? She also went through all my liked pages on Facebook and made comments about the ones that involved anything to do with girls Such as gym motivation pages and models with cars Sometimes while driving my car I would like to play rap music She would always change the station and tell me that music is so downgrading to women It's funny how at the last two weeks She started listening to rap Her coworkers are into that music from what she told me so I'm guessing she is copying them and trying to fit in She would ask me the most bizarre questions Like do I masturbate to the women in porn There would be a good looking girl around us and she would tell me to go do her Or even when I brought up any of my female friends She would tell me to go have sex with them I went to a bar with some friends where the waiters wear low skirts and shirts and she asked me did I enjoy myself and get any numbers Like constant jealousy as if I was to leave her any minute She also couldn't listen to girl vocals in dance music because supposedly the girls seen so perfect Before we started dating she had many different phases She had a tomboy have and than a punk/rocker phase which lead to a party girl phase where every picture on her Facebook was with a cup of liquor and at a party Once we started dating She stopped drinking alcohol all together since I'm into a drinker It would also make sense that she has dyed her hair about 20 times within 2.5 years She also has a dragon tattoo behind her ear that she claims reminds her she is strong She wants a tattoo of a Phoenix on her ribs which I understand is a big BPD tattoo Means something along the lines of every time she is down she get back up A Phoenix burns its self and than is reborn so it's very similar to this Her mother has a yin yang sign in her arm that is supposed to be the balance of black and white which makes sense And they both have the same tattoo on their wrists that supposedly means it's the bond that can never be broken And the mother told me not to take this personally since she would push away anyone she was with at this time Possible the stepdad leaving was a trigger ? Any suggestions Or am I going crazy ?
Downtown Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 I think she has NPD/BPD.Ikrzys, you are describing nearly all the classic warning signs for Borderline Personality Disorder (and, to a lesser extent, those for Narcissistic PD). Please keep in mind, however, that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is a spectrum disorder, which means it is a set of basic human behavioral traits we all have to some degree. At low levels, these traits generally are ego defenses that are essential to our survival. They become a problem only when they are so strong and persistent that they undermine one's ability to form and maintain healthy, close LTRs. At issue, then, is not whether your exGF "has BPD traits." Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as irrational jealousy, temper tantrums, controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you). Indeed, your wonderfully detailed post describes those red flags and indicates you are already quite familiar with the list of BPD traits. Yet, if you are interested in reading more, I would suggest you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that information rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful experience -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Or am I going crazy?Well, if you've been dating a BPDer for two years, "crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling. Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious for making a large share of the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. This is one reason therapists see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers. Take care, Ikrzys. 2
Author ikrzys Posted October 25, 2015 Author Posted October 25, 2015 Thank you for all that information Downtown, I defiantly feel like all of there behavior was rubbed off on me The funny thing is She told me she pushed all her past bfs away And told me she would hurt me I don't know why I just didn't run than I defiantly have co dependent issues I have to work on but after this experience it will defiantly open my eyes She told me she was in a psych ward That should have got my RED FLAG alert going lol Can anyone else read the my story and see how the feel about it? I'm have a feeling she has a new bf already but honestly I don't mind Not my problem anymore 1
Downtown Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 I defiantly have co dependent issues.... She told me she was in a psych ward. That should have got my RED FLAG alert going lolIkrzys, with excessive caregivers like us, the problem is not that we want to help people -- but, rather, that we keep helping even when it is to our great detriment to do so -- and even when we cannot possibly help them. We just find it anathema to let go and walk away. Our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). The result is that we will walk right on past all the emotionally available women (BORING!) until we find one who desperately needs us. The best description of this I've seen in Schreiber's blog at Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved?. Although Schreiber confuses BPDers with narcissists and sociopaths, her description of us excessive caregivers seems insightful to me. 1
opalant Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 My ex used to be the same, I go to college and he works, but we always made time to see each other, then eventually he kept saying he was busy more and more, couldn't text me AT ALL, but when I was with him his phone and laptop was in his hand constantly and if his phone buzzed he'd ignore me for it straight away. Also the thing about a different personality around other people I know exactly how you feel! We'd go out with his friends or to work functions and we'd act like the perfect couple, but then when we'd be alone again he'd treat me like s**t again. He also only treats close people like rubbish, I think this is so that they can keep the image of looking 'perfect' for their friends so that they don't lose absolutely everyone, obviously if they treated their friends like this they'd have no one. So just know you're not alone and you're not going crazy, although I know it can feel that way. Keep NC, don't let her back in. 1
Author ikrzys Posted October 27, 2015 Author Posted October 27, 2015 [quote=opalant So just know you're not alone and you're not going crazy, although I know it can feel that way. Keep NC, don't let her back in. I know That it the hardest part Almost two months no contact Part of me wants to reach out to her and tell her that I somewhat understand her but than again what good will that do ? Would you recommend this ? I just find it really bizarre that after all i did for her and her mom That they never bothered to say thank you or anything It's as if I meant nothing I once asked her does she not see what I do for her That it shows that I care about her and love her She responded that she knows what I do for her and that she is blind I guess that shows no feelings ?
opalant Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 Contacting them will make you feel rubbish and just stroke their ego making them feel better which you don't want, they don't deserve that. They know what they're doing deep down, like someone with depression knows that they're sad, but IF our ex's did in fact have BPD they don't care enough to change and think there's nothing wrong with them. Just leave them too it to work it out on their own, don't keep trying to help your ex, it'll just drag you further back down into misery. Expect nothing from anyone and you can't be disappointed, just know that you did so much for them and that you're a good person for doing so, I don't think a thankyou would make a difference, maybe it would make you even more upset now. Keep up NC. It can often feel like you meant nothing at the end of a break up, maybe especially with an ex who has BPD because they just completely switch off and move on to the next one (or at least mine has) but you must have meant something for them to be with you, so take comfort in that. Just be thankful that you're no longer with her, maybe get therapy? I know I am after being with someone who MAYBE has BPD, I don't want it to affect my next relationships, and I think moving on from an emotionally abusive relationship is a lot harder as we're a lot more fragile. You don't want to end up with someone similar.
Realitycol Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 I love these threads that pop everyday with some smart label for someone they dated that was, in the end, toxic. It's like they need to find a blame or some reason for why a person leaves them. Because being able to pinpoint the reason why some person acted so toxic would make the researcher feel just so much better........no. So they get on google or ask some professional if X is indeed a person with YZ disorder. Stop. If someone is toxic they are guess what, toxic. If you don't like being treated like that then they aren't for you. If you want to tolerate that then you don't love yourself very much.
opalant Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 You people really irritate me. Not once in these threads does anyone label there ex as definitely having BPD, it's merely a possibility unless they've been diagnosed. It's as though you think no one has BPD, which is absurd, it does exist. I got told that my ex simply had a 'shi**y' personality even though he physically and emotionally abused me for years. Although he might not have BPD I wanted to learn about what it was to find out if there were any similarities as I'm sure the person in this thread wanted to do too. Labelling it sure as hell doesn't make the break up any easier and doesn't blame the dumper for all the problems of the relationship, it just makes it a little clearer to understand why certain things happened and why they treated us that way. There's a difference between a relationship turning toxic (ie. you not getting on arguing all the time etc.) and a relationship that was doomed from the start because of a mental illness problem and the ex wearing you down and brain washing you to make you feel like you're crazy. So if you have no real constructive advice why bother posting? 3
Realitycol Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) You people really irritate me. Not once in these threads does anyone label there ex as definitely having BPD, it's merely a possibility unless they've been diagnosed. It's as though you think no one has BPD, which is absurd, it does exist. I got told that my ex simply had a 'shi**y' personality even though he physically and emotionally abused me for years. Although he might not have BPD I wanted to learn about what it was to find out if there were any similarities as I'm sure the person in this thread wanted to do too. Labelling it sure as hell doesn't make the break up any easier and doesn't blame the dumper for all the problems of the relationship, it just makes it a little clearer to understand why certain things happened and why they treated us that way. There's a difference between a relationship turning toxic (ie. you not getting on arguing all the time etc.) and a relationship that was doomed from the start because of a mental illness problem and the ex wearing you down and brain washing you to make you feel like you're crazy. So if you have no real constructive advice why bother posting? First of all not even talking to you. Refer to the first three lines by the OP where they can't move on because of BPD. Reread what you just said in bold btw.. Either case, they are both toxic to you, yes or no? If yes, why stay? Unless you're into that kind of thing or you feel like you have low-worth. Absolutely NO difference between someone who treats you like crap sober or not sober or someone who treats you like crap with a medical condition. In the end, you are being treated like crap. Right? Right. So do you like being treated poorly? Yes, stay; no, leave. I don't really see how this is anything but simple. I REALLY don't care if it's: Medical condition Menstrual cycle Can't take a joke Passive Aggressive Drugs Alcohol Smoking Gambling Stress from work etc. If someone is going to hurt someone they love with/without excuse it's toxic. If it's something that happens more than once than for me I'm out. There are plenty of people who deal with tons of stress or drink or gamble or get bombard with stress from work that can come home and be warm and lovely. OP can't move on because of the maybe or possibility that there was something more or hidden from him behind this "BPD." Bottom line is, it doesn't matter. She treat him poorly and she CERTAINLY comes with baggages. The OP is idolizing her and idealizing her as something more than just another girl on the planet. Edited October 28, 2015 by Realitycol 1
opalant Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 I've read what I said, I wrote it, I knew that you wasn't talking to me but I was sticking up for the OP because people jump on posters that talk about BPD all the time. People stay in these kinds of relationship because they were abused in the past and see it as normal, people stay because they're in love, people stay because these people don't show their true selves until years into the relationship. And also because sometimes the other person doesn't have self worth to get away from the relationship and leaving a toxic relationship is HARD they strip away all your self esteem and confidence, there's many different reasons. That's all very well and good that you can suddenly just switch off your feelings when someone hurts you and leave, but for most people that's not possible. Especially if someone has been emotionally and maybe even physically abusing you it's difficult to leave, 1. for your safety, and 2. because it's what you've gotten used to, you feel like you deserve it and you feel like it will get better if you try harder. You really can't say unless you've been in this situation yourself. And people cope and react to things in different ways. Simply saying 'get over' it and 'just leave' as soon as someone does something 'sh**ty' to you really isn't very good advice, it's not that easy. 3
Realitycol Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) More like the fact that I've experienced so much messed up things that I can say these things. Being used to get back with their ex. Being used for my money, etc, etc. I never said, flip a switch... The OP needs to realize his self-worth. He deserves the best. I have no idea where you got the idea to go flip a switch. He needs to stop asking these questions and DOUBTING himself. Facing truth/reality isn't flipping a switch. Did I tell him to leave after the first toxic behavior? No, he dealt with it for a quite some time and THEN got dumped. It's time. He needs to accept that this is over and he needs to let it go. Why? Because he's been hurt and went through hard times. He's been brought down by some silly girl. He needs to stop wasting time pondering if maybe or that she's BPD so I can forgive her. No, he doesn't deserve a B- girl or C+. He deserves the best. It's the flat out truth. Whether he takes 1 hour to realize this or 10 years, that's on him. I'm simply stating how things are from a point of view that's not cluttered by denial. Not constructive? Hah, please. Edited October 28, 2015 by Realitycol 1
opalant Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 in your first post you basically seemed to be having a go at the OP by them simply mentioning anything to do with BPD, and then literally all you said was to stop thinking that way and to just leave a toxic relationship, didn't actually give any advice on how to do this, just stated the obvious, so no, it wasn't constructive advice, but i'm done trying to get my point across now 1
Author ikrzys Posted October 28, 2015 Author Posted October 28, 2015 I clearly wrote after doing some research I think she has NPD /BPD Than I also wrote this is the reasons why Realitycol Did you even bother to read the whole post? I made sure to ask this person if they love me, Her mom was the person who helped me throughout the relationship She explained many things to me Basically what kept me in this relationship Was the mindset that eventually through all the bad The good will overcome This was a relationship Where when the good was shown It was really good It's amazing how much the other person can admire you and show that they love you I felt like we were soul mates When the bad is shown It can be really nasty Her mom told me she has certain traits such as black and white thinking and scapegoating I am a understanding person She would come home from work and take her rage out on me I corrected her and talked to her but some things are out of my control Like her mom said at the end To not take it personally She would do this to anybody 2 weeks before the breakup She was telling me how much she loves me and everything was so good It's literally is like a switched was flipped and she started devaluing me A BPD/NPD cycle consists of admiration/devalue/discard I can exactly pinpoint what she felt and what part of a cycle she was I understand that I can not diagnose her But the girl clearly had problems growing up where both parents were fighting over custody of her and she went through a lot I compared my stories to other stories of BPD exes and they are all very similar When you love a person, you want to work things out Clearly she showed me she wanted me but in the end it happended like this Everybody will show toxic behavior in a relationship so if the moment you leave somebody after they do something to you ,is that really true love ? Honestly from the bottom of my heart I can say I loved her Read the post and I guarantee you that you will see that I wrote this is why I think she has NPD/ BPD If you don't have anything nice to say than why even bother posting something ? In asking for help Not for somebody to be snarky with me 2
Author ikrzys Posted October 28, 2015 Author Posted October 28, 2015 Contacting them will make you feel rubbish and just stroke their ego making them feel better which you don't want, they don't deserve that. They know what they're doing deep down, like someone with depression knows that they're sad, but IF our ex's did in fact have BPD they don't care enough to change and think there's nothing wrong with them. Just leave them too it to work it out on their own, don't keep trying to help your ex, it'll just drag you further back down into misery. Expect nothing from anyone and you can't be disappointed, just know that you did so much for them and that you're a good person for doing so, I don't think a thankyou would make a difference, maybe it would make you even more upset now. Keep up NC. It can often feel like you meant nothing at the end of a break up, maybe especially with an ex who has BPD because they just completely switch off and move on to the next one (or at least mine has) but you must have meant something for them to be with you, so take comfort in that. Just be thankful that you're no longer with her, maybe get therapy? I know I am after being with someone who MAYBE has BPD, I don't want it to affect my next relationships, and I think moving on from an emotionally abusive relationship is a lot harder as we're a lot more fragile. You don't want to end up with someone similar. Thank you for this good advice I'm sure she knew what she had done deep down I have read that some of them actually push you away because they know that you don't deserve to be with someone like them Sometimes they even cheat on purpose to sabotage the relationship and so that they push you away That's what it felt like If I was on a constant roller coaster Pushing and pulling Ups and downs Very good times and very bad times And all this would be rapid alterations She clearly told me at the end that she knows one day I'm going to find a better girl than her And like I wrote Her mom told me not to take the break up personally That her daughter would do this to anybody she was currently with
Author ikrzys Posted October 28, 2015 Author Posted October 28, 2015 First of all not even talking to you. Refer to the first three lines by the OP where they can't move on because of BPD. no, leave. I don't really see how this is anything but simple. I wrote this is why I think she has NPD/BPD And I never wrote that I can't move on because of it I wrote PERHAPS Adj to that is maybe
Downtown Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 OP can't move on because of the maybe or possibility that there was something more or hidden from him behind this "BPD." Bottom line is, it doesn't matter.Reality, your suggestion -- that Ikrzys should stop trying to understand his Ex's behavior -- would be excellent advice for many people leaving a relationship that is both verbally and physically abusive. Most people have reasonably strong personal boundaries and thus are capable of walking away from such toxic relationships without looking back. However, for a man remaining in that toxic relationship for more than two years -- especially one acknowledging that "I definitely have codependent issues" -- it can be VERY IMPORTANT for him to understand his Ex's behavior. One reason, of course, is this is the very issue Ikrzys wants to discuss. As he explained in his first paragraph, he seeks advice on whether his Ex's strong BPD/NPD traits are "why I'm having trouble moving on." If his Ex really does have strong BPD traits as he suspects, his need for clarity is easy to understand. As I noted above, BPD is the disorder most notorious for making abused partners so utterly confused that many feel they may be going crazy. Indeed, Ikrzys came out of the gate asking -- in his very first post above -- "Am I going crazy?" A second reason is the likelihood that any man willingly tolerating such abuse for over two years has strong codependency traits, as Ikrzys himself recognizes. This means he likely has weak personal boundaries -- i.e., is so empathetic that it is difficult for him to see where his own problems stop and those of his Ex begin. This unhealthy "enmeshment" with his Ex makes it hard to see his own contribution to the toxicity without first understanding -- and subtracting out -- the contribution made by his Ex. Absent that understanding, he likely will continue to misperceive his role as "just trying to help" instead of seeing himself an enabler. As Opalant explained, there are many reasons why leaving a toxic R/S can be hard. A third reason is that, if Ikrzys is codependent like me, he is a caregiver to a fault. Our problem is not wanting to help others. Rather, it is our willingness to keep helping even when it is to our great detriment to do so. Hence, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema to us. There is no way we will abandon a sick loved one. Yet, if you can explain to us how we are not really helping -- and explain that we are, in fact, harming the loved one with our enabling behavior -- you can free us of the guilt and sense of obligation that keeps us mired in the toxic relationship. Fourth, when our partners have strong BPD traits, we excessive caregivers find that such relationships are highly addictive. This is so because the hateful, spiteful periods are intermixed with wonderful, ecstatic periods, during which we are adored and regarded as white knights who can fix anything (i.e., a codependent's notion of heaven). This bouncing back and forth between enraptured highs and painful withdrawals is very similar to the behavior of people addicted to heroine, alcohol, and gambling. Hence, telling us to "simply walk away" is as useful as telling a drunk to simply toss his bottle away. Fifth, in the unlikely event that we codependents would walk away from a BPDer, there is a good chance we will throw ourselves into the arms of another person just like her if we don't take time to learn the red flags we should look out for. Because we are caregivers to a fault, we are strongly attracted to anyone projecting a strong sense of vulnerability (like "catnip" for us). And BPDers, forever thinking of themselves as victims, are masters at projecting vulnerability. These five considerations imply that it can be extremely difficult to persuade a caregiver to stay away from a toxic relationship. And this is especially true when his partner has strong BPD traits because the terrible lows will alternate with incredible highs. Hence, the very first thing I encourage an abused person like Ikrzys to do is to read about BPD traits so he can determine whether he is seeing most warning signs occurring at a strong and persistent level. If so, this knowledge should give him several important insights: (a) the partner's dysfunctional behavior likely originated in childhood and thus is far beyond his ability to fix, (b) his efforts to comfort and calm her are counter-productive because they prevent her from facing her issues and learning how to control them, and © his "enabling" behavior harms her by allowing her to continue acting like a child and without suffering the logical consequences. Once an excessive caregiver realizes that he is harming his sick loved one, he is freed from the feelings of obligation and guilt that were tying him to the toxic relationship.
opalant Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 ikrzys I know exactly what you mean when you say 'eventually through all the bad the good will overcome' I had this mindset too because sometimes they do treat us well, they act like they did at the start all over again, but this doesn't last very long and I just found myself constantly trying to get through all the bad stuff so I could get the 'high' from those fleeting moments of happy moments. That's what makes us stay, because the good is so unbelievably good but the bad is so awful, people on the outside just can't see why we stay in such a relationship. But finally you have to keep reminding yourself of all the bad memories, realise that they way outway the good parts and force yourself to leave them and in time eventually move on. I've been getting comments like this on my threads too about BPD, we're not diagnosing, simply discussing the possibility and asking for support from people suffering similar things. My ex used to push me away quite a lot too, in his nice and 'normal' moments he would sometimes break down in tears to me saying he didn't deserve me and that I should find someone that would love me right because he wanted to change but didn't think he could. 1
Author ikrzys Posted October 31, 2015 Author Posted October 31, 2015 Reality, your suggestion -- that Ikrzys should stop trying to understand his Ex's behavior -- would be excellent advice for many people leaving a relationship that is both verbally and physically abusive. Most people have reasonably strong personal boundaries and thus are capable of walking away from such toxic relationships without looking back. However, for a man remaining in that toxic relationship for more than two years -- especially one acknowledging that "I definitely have codependent issues" -- it can be VERY IMPORTANT for him to understand his Ex's behavior. One reason, of course, is this is the very issue Ikrzys wants to discuss. As he explained in his first paragraph, he seeks advice on whether his Ex's strong BPD/NPD traits are "why I'm having trouble moving on." If his Ex really does have strong BPD traits as he suspects, his need for clarity is easy to understand. As I noted above, BPD is the disorder most notorious for making abused partners so utterly confused that many feel they may be going crazy. Indeed, Ikrzys came out of the gate asking -- in his very first post above -- "Am I going crazy?" A second reason is the likelihood that any man willingly tolerating such abuse for over two years has strong codependency traits, as Ikrzys himself recognizes. This means he likely has weak personal boundaries -- i.e., is so empathetic that it is difficult for him to see where his own problems stop and those of his Ex begin. This unhealthy "enmeshment" with his Ex makes it hard to see his own contribution to the toxicity without first understanding -- and subtracting out -- the contribution made by his Ex. Absent that understanding, he likely will continue to misperceive his role as "just trying to help" instead of seeing himself an enabler. As Opalant explained, there are many reasons why leaving a toxic R/S can be hard. A third reason is that, if Ikrzys is codependent like me, he is a caregiver to a fault. Our problem is not wanting to help others. Rather, it is our willingness to keep helping even when it is to our great detriment to do so. Hence, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema to us. There is no way we will abandon a sick loved one. Yet, if you can explain to us how we are not really helping -- and explain that we are, in fact, harming the loved one with our enabling behavior -- you can free us of the guilt and sense of obligation that keeps us mired in the toxic relationship. Fourth, when our partners have strong BPD traits, we excessive caregivers find that such relationships are highly addictive. This is so because the hateful, spiteful periods are intermixed with wonderful, ecstatic periods, during which we are adored and regarded as white knights who can fix anything (i.e., a codependent's notion of heaven). This bouncing back and forth between enraptured highs and painful withdrawals is very similar to the behavior of people addicted to heroine, alcohol, and gambling. Hence, telling us to "simply walk away" is as useful as telling a drunk to simply toss his bottle away. Fifth, in the unlikely event that we codependents would walk away from a BPDer, there is a good chance we will throw ourselves into the arms of another person just like her if we don't take time to learn the red flags we should look out for. Because we are caregivers to a fault, we are strongly attracted to anyone projecting a strong sense of vulnerability (like "catnip" for us). And BPDers, forever thinking of themselves as victims, are masters at projecting vulnerability. These five considerations imply that it can be extremely difficult to persuade a caregiver to stay away from a toxic relationship. And this is especially true when his partner has strong BPD traits because the terrible lows will alternate with incredible highs. Hence, the very first thing I encourage an abused person like Ikrzys to do is to read about BPD traits so he can determine whether he is seeing most warning signs occurring at a strong and persistent level. If so, this knowledge should give him several important insights: (a) the partner's dysfunctional behavior likely originated in childhood and thus is far beyond his ability to fix, (b) his efforts to comfort and calm her are counter-productive because they prevent her from facing her issues and learning how to control them, and © his "enabling" behavior harms her by allowing her to continue acting like a child and without suffering the logical consequences. Once an excessive caregiver realizes that he is harming his sick loved one, he is freed from the feelings of obligation and guilt that were tying him to the toxic relationship. Wow Thank you for taking your time to write all of that I defiantly agree with everything you have said I gave my heart to somebody that is not able to handle there emotions correctly and they ended up ripping it apart as if it was a toy I trusted this person with my heart I always asked her if there was somebody else or if she lost feelings for me and if she still loves me I was unaware that my love and her love have different meanings so I guess she was saying the truth that she loves me but it wasn't the same kind of love I was assuming it was It sucks that I had no intimacy with her for 18 months I feel like she played me She claimed it hurt and I wanted to help her I have read some things about BPD and they have a tendency to project things they are doing into you She accused me of cheating and i have a gut feeling she cheated on me This was during the devaluation phase She told me I look different down there ? That was a red flag But anyways about 3 months out of the rs and I still think about it It's very difficult to get past this but with each day it gets easier
Author ikrzys Posted October 31, 2015 Author Posted October 31, 2015 ikrzys I know exactly what you mean when you say 'eventually through all the bad the good will overcome' I had this mindset too because sometimes they do treat us well, they act like they did at the start all over again, but this doesn't last very long and I just found myself constantly trying to get through all the bad stuff so I could get the 'high' from those fleeting moments of happy moments. That's what makes us stay, because the good is so unbelievably good but the bad is so awful, people on the outside just can't see why we stay in such a relationship. But finally you have to keep reminding yourself of all the bad memories, realise that they way outway the good parts and force yourself to leave them and in time eventually move on. I've been getting comments like this on my threads too about BPD, we're not diagnosing, simply discussing the possibility and asking for support from people suffering similar things. My ex used to push me away quite a lot too, in his nice and 'normal' moments he would sometimes break down in tears to me saying he didn't deserve me and that I should find someone that would love me right because he wanted to change but didn't think he could. Yes I know It's amazing how good the good times are and how bad the bass are At first I thought she was bipolar intill I figured out the true meaning of that It's like to completely people I can't believe the one person that loved you so much was able to downgrade me like that Constantly picking at me At home and in public Even complaining about little things such as the way I ordered items at the deli And even criticizing and judging me and telling me I'm full of **** and know everything in front of her dad
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