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Men with pessimistic views of love and empty feelings

Whattheheckhappened

By Whattheheckhappened
in General Relationship Discussion

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Whattheheckhappened New Member

Whattheheckhappened

Posted
Posted

So, I wanted to get some advice. First off, I am 30 and have spent the last 10 years in two back to back relationships (it just happened). But I have now been single for close to 2 years.

 

My last relationship ended and it was painful and difficult because I didn't listen. From the beginning, he was unsure about me, yet told me he loved me. He has abandonment issues and would tell me he feels empty on a regular basis. Basically, I spent four years of my life thinking I can change him and make him love me. I did everything I could for him. I moved away for grad school and he left me for a really young girl and long story short..thanked me for helping to heal him. I have been dating this past year and have met many selfish guys and have made my fair share of problems that if I didn't, could have led to some nice relationships.

 

Anyway, I have now met a guy who seems extremely genuine. He is 37 and his last relationship was 2 years ago. We have been taking things very slowly. I met him three months ago and slowly it seems our connection is progressing. We had what felt like a connection on our fourth date (more emotional) and on our fifth date, it felt that way as well. He opened up to me about his work, his fears, his family issues and his pessimistic view of love (love doesn't last, he has only been in relationships no longer than 2 years, falls out of love quickly) but still he has some hope in it. Basically, I think he is very scarred from his parents' divorce. I assumed that he had abandonment issues. On our fifth date we philosophized and talked about the more non positive provoking ideas about life etc which was nice. I can tell he likes to be honest and to show who he is. Now, the issue started when we got awkward about becoming intimate (kissing etc although we have kissed before). He told me he thinks I'm such a nice girl and that maybe for now we should continue philosophizing and that he has a lot of respect for me for not taking his advances on our second date and that he feels empty inside and am I sure an empty person can give me what I want. I told him to take a step back and told him I feel attracted to him and he reciprocated with that. We spent the night cuddling and him caressing my hair, holding hands and in the morning he left. We have spoken and talked about seeing each other next week.

 

My fear is that, I was left with the scars of dating someone who kept pushing me away, was selfish and someone who just never fully appreciated me. I know this guy isn't the same one but I am so scared. I don't open up easily either so I give people mixed signals.

 

What is your opinion on this? Is there any hope? Is he afraid of being hurt? I was so happy to have met a guy like him and then when he told me about his view of love, it diminished how special I thought he thought I was.

Toodaloo Established Member

Toodaloo

Posted
Posted

My opinion is that you need to read a book called Mr Unavailable and the Fall Back Girl by Natalie Lue.

 

Pay particular attention to the section on "Florence's"...

 

You are stuck in a cycle of thinking you can fix people. You can't.

 

This one is going to go the same way as the others and you will end up waking up realising that you have wasted the best years of your life on men who just aren't all that while everyone else has married the ones who are...

  • Like 3
mrldii Established Member

mrldii

Posted
Posted

OP, why do you not believe these men (that you are attracted to) when they tell you/show you/remind you that they are not relationship-worthy/relationship-wanting

 

and then act surprised, hurt, and upset when they prove they're exactly as they presented themselves to be?

 

IF you truly want a relationship, it's probably best that you believe him that he just wants to be philosophy-sharing buddies and move on to the next emotionally-available man.

 

Best of luck to you...

  • Like 2
BlueIris Established Member

BlueIris

Posted
Posted (edited)
... He opened up to me about his work, his fears, his family issues and his pessimistic view of love (love doesn't last, he has only been in relationships no longer than 2 years, falls out of love quickly) but still he has some hope in it. ... He told me he thinks I'm such a nice girl and that maybe for now we should continue philosophizing and that he has a lot of respect for me for not taking his advances on our second date and that he feels empty inside and am I sure an empty person can give me what I want. ...

 

What is your opinion on this? Is there any hope? Is he afraid of being hurt? I was so happy to have met a guy like him and then when he told me about his view of love, it diminished how special I thought he thought I was.

 

In my experience, people like this are black holes of need, life-sucking. They might believe that they are being tragic, sensitive, deep or philosophical, but they’re life-suckers- OR users, cons.

 

I am NOT saying he's a sociopath, but it is interesting that sociopaths use tragedy or pity as bait. “I am sure that if the devil existed, he would want us to feel very sorry for him.” ― Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door

The tragic, sad-story guys I've met sincerely believe that they're tragic or pitiful, or I think they do. I don't think they consciously use this as "bait." However, every one of them has expected or demanded deference or care-taking, at least at an emotional level.

Edited by BlueIris
  • Like 2
Michelle ma Belle Established Member

Michelle ma Belle

Posted
Posted
In my experience, people like this are black holes of need, life-sucking. They might believe that they are being tragic, sensitive, deep or philosophical, but they’re life-suckers- OR users, cons.

 

I am NOT saying he's a sociopath, but it is interesting that sociopaths use tragedy or pity as bait. “I am sure that if the devil existed, he would want us to feel very sorry for him.” ― Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door

The tragic, sad-story guys I've met sincerely believe that they're tragic or pitiful, or I think they do. I don't think they consciously use this as "bait." However, every one of them has expected or demanded deference or care-taking, at least at an emotional level.

 

Amen to this.

 

I also agree with Toodaloo's take on being stuck in a cycle of always fixing broken men.

 

He's telling you point blank what we wants and what he's capable of and that should be enough to keep your wits about yourself. Stop holding out hope that YOU will somehow be the one to change him or fix him or make him a believer again.

 

I've been that girl and I promise you that it will leave you brokenhearted.

ManyDissapoint Established Member

ManyDissapoint

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why does his view on love matter? Why does your view on love matter? Most people base their view on love on limited amount of life experience and it will change with every relationship. This guy probably had some really bad experiences with 'love'.

 

In my experience women have no problem sharpening the knife they'll use to stab you while at the same time saying how devoted and deep their love is. But that's just my experience. Anyone who blames me for being affected by these experiences doesn't understand that everyone is shaped by their experiences--it's called baggage. What's important is to realize what kind of baggage you carry, and stop your baggage from reacting with your partners baggage having an explosive chemical reaction!

 

I see nothing wrong so far from what you described. He wants to take things slow and that's a good sign. You need to slow down emotionally yourself and not overinvest until you keep learning more about this man.

 

I will say that if he is the one ending relationships after 2 years every time, that is a huge red flag. You need to find out more about him. You need to know why he 'quit' his last jobs since you are thinking about 'hiring' him. What does the trail of smoking bodies look like? Him being out of relationships for 2 years is a good sign though as well.

Edited by ManyDissapoint
TaraMaiden2 Established Member

TaraMaiden2

Posted
Posted
Why does his view on love matter? Why does your view on love matter? Most people base their view on love on limited amount of life experience and it will change with every relationship. This guy probably had some really bad experiences with 'love'.

 

In my experience women have no problem sharpening the knife they'll use to stab you while at the same time saying how devoted and deep their love is. But that's just my experience. Anyone who blames me for being affected by these experiences doesn't understand that everyone is shaped by their experiences--it's called baggage. What's important is to realize what kind of baggage you carry, and stop your baggage from reacting with your partners baggage having an explosive chemical reaction!

 

I see nothing wrong so far from what you described. He wants to take things slow and that's a good sign. You need to slow down emotionally yourself and not overinvest until you keep learning more about this man.

 

Really?

 

Nothing at all?

 

Jeesh, I see whopping great big red flags a-flappin' like crazy....

 

I will say that if he is the one ending relationships after 2 years every time, that is a huge red flag. You need to find out more about him. You need to know why he 'quit' his last jobs since you are thinking about 'hiring' him. What does the trail of smoking bodies look like? .....
Falls out of love within 2 years, AS WELL AS:

 

thinking 'Love' is a pile of crock, is actually turning down intimacy, scarred from parents' divorce (he's how old, now??)

 

No, nothing wrong with that at all....:rolleyes:

  • Like 1
SolG Established Member

SolG

Posted
Posted

What is this guy to you? He was a potential love interest... But is he now? If not, what is he?

 

Not every guy you meet has to be a contender for life long partner. If you've made a connection, then it's up to you to decide what type of connection it is. If you already know it's not romantically viable, but it still adds value to your life, then just treat it as what it is as opposed to what you initially thought it would be. You can't change another, but you can seek to be an enriching part of their life if the connection is worth it. But don't try to make it what it isn't.

 

If he's now just a guy who's world view makes you sad and you'd like to give him hope... Then do that as his friend and take your romantic aspirations elsewhere. As long as he agrees of course. If not, just bid each other farewell and good luck.

Toodaloo Established Member

Toodaloo

Posted
Posted
Why does his view on love matter? Why does your view on love matter? Most people base their view on love on limited amount of life experience and it will change with every relationship. This guy probably had some really bad experiences with 'love'.

 

In my experience women have no problem sharpening the knife they'll use to stab you while at the same time saying how devoted and deep their love is. But that's just my experience. Anyone who blames me for being affected by these experiences doesn't understand that everyone is shaped by their experiences--it's called baggage. What's important is to realize what kind of baggage you carry, and stop your baggage from reacting with your partners baggage having an explosive chemical reaction!

 

I see nothing wrong so far from what you described. He wants to take things slow and that's a good sign. You need to slow down emotionally yourself and not overinvest until you keep learning more about this man.

 

I will say that if he is the one ending relationships after 2 years every time, that is a huge red flag. You need to find out more about him. You need to know why he 'quit' his last jobs since you are thinking about 'hiring' him. What does the trail of smoking bodies look like? Him being out of relationships for 2 years is a good sign though as well.

 

The fact that you see no problem with his behavior is the very reason why you are able to say the bolded above.

 

Perhaps you should read that book too... It might help you to have better experiences as well...

 

Just saying!

 

This guy has basically said "I do not want to commit, I am going to hit it for a bit but I will quit it because I am not interesting enough to be interested in anything. If you want to shag me and love me fine but I am not going to change and I will be dumping you in around about 2 years time when I just can't be bothered anymore. There is no future with me. Yeah I fancy you enough to f*** and you will do for my entertainment for a bit but I have no interest in treating you well or building a life long commitment to you"...

 

How exactly is that not a red flag?

 

Its also very concerning that OP is making excuses for him already as she is PRIME target for this sort of man to use in this way.

 

Gotta stop the cycle. I suggest you stop yours as well.

salparadise Established Member

salparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
In my experience, people like this are black holes of need, life-sucking.

 

I am NOT saying he's a sociopath, but...

 

Not sociopath, but in the same range of disorders.

 

OP, what you describe, and what everyone else is almost saying in so many words, is that you are a caretaker/fixer/codependent type and you attract and are attracted to men with a certain type of personality deficit. It's a known pattern.

 

The words you use to describe these men, their feelings and behaviors coincide with the characteristics in the "cluster B" range of disorders. I am not saying any of these guys are diagnosable, just that they seem to lean in that direction based on your description and the relationship patterns and features that you're talking about... emptiness, abandonment, scarred.

 

You quote him as saying, "he feels empty inside and am I sure an empty person can give me what I want. I told him to take a step back and told him I feel attracted to him." Well, at least everyone is being honest. The deal is that you don't understand exactly what all of it means.

 

You said, "I spent four years of my life thinking I can change him and make him love me." Yes, yes and you will spend the next fifty years repeating this pattern if you don't take the cue here to learn and break free of the pattern. Fortunately, the codependency can be fixed... the personality deficits that you're attaching to, not so much. They have an anxious-avoidant attachment style. Abandonment is their main fear. The emptiness you (and he) describe is an incomplete sense of self, resulting in the need for another person to feel complete (yet they never do). They preemptively sabotage or terminate relationships first when they feel they've been unmasked and fear that you might leave them.

 

You need to learn the patterns, and learn to recognize these characteristics in people so that you can start picking emotionally healthy men to date. And you need to retrain yourself to be attracted to emotionally healthy men as well. I would suggest finding a good therapist to help you work through this process.

 

The good news is that two people who are former codependent types (after they've done their personal work) can make a really nice couple.

 

If any of this is not perfectly clear, feel free to ask questions.

Edited by salparadise
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