9 Years | It's Over | Why didn't I?

[kgcolonel]

Thanks, there are 3 things I need to communicate, and she saw me yesterday so she knows I am weak, so I need to let her know the following:

 

1. The dog has to go to daycare tomorrow and likely all next week.

2. We are not going to go through our joint storage unit until later on.

3. I am not taking any of our current possessions - couches, bed, anything.

Do I just let her know all that in 1 message?

 

And I know she doesn't care, trust me, I know.

 

Old habits die hard I guess.

 

I've really made this easy on her.

 

 

I would suggest to only communicate what is in bold....I would guard against any "hi how are you doing etc".... Just the facts, not mean and not friendly just this is what it is matter of fact.

 

This will begin your emotional separation and healing. Hang in there Brother....you can do this and it will make you feel stronger and more empowered and in control of your life. Right now, she has that control, not because of any intention but because of her making all the decisions and your not having a say in what is happening with the relationship.

[makemineamac]

Done, thanks everyone, already feel a little better.

 

Now I don't know how she's going to respond, but we'll see.

 

Thanks again for the great advice.

[fireflywy]

When you mentioned her abandonment issues and her instant detach I began to think of her being a "love avoidant." If you married her as you were older, and she as well, its most likely the case as more and more of what are known as "secure" attachers are off the market.

Check out the book Attached. It may help you understand her detachment mechanisms.

 

Hope the best for you buddy.

[makemineamac]

Thanks so much, I'll read that for sure.

 

And I told her long ago, that I didn't really think she knew what love was, you know what I mean? I could just sense that she wasn't emotionally developed, and again came from a family that never talked about loving or caring for each other.

 

Anyway, it's interesting how it all played out, but if I'd been responsible, I could have been out of this dead relationship long ago.

 

Thanks for the best wishes - truly appreciate it!

[fireflywy]

I got out of the same type of relationship. She said she had a hard time showing her feelings and came from a family where affection and love wasn't the most flowing.

 

That book helped me understand some things. I would also recommend you read my "stream of conciousness" thread and the response by "Badpenny" about bandaids.

It may help as well.

[makemineamac]

I got out of the same type of relationship. She said she had a hard time showing her feelings and came from a family where affection and love wasn't the most flowing.

 

That book helped me understand some things. I would also recommend you read my "stream of conciousness" thread and the response by "Badpenny" about bandaids.

It may help as well.

You did? Yes, and her family they hardly ever talk. She talks to her brother twice a year, I talk to my brothers and sister multiple times a week. Their family is like an emotional vacuum. It makes me sad that they can't seem to 'feel'.

 

Thanks so much, I feel like I'm really learning here and will read your thread.

 

I just ordered the book as well.

 

I guess the real eye-opener for me was when I told her I was upset and she asked me what she could do to make me feel better, I said remain loyal to me until one of us leaves this place, and she said she couldn't do it. After 9 years. It blew me away then, and it does now.

 

One small ask.

[makemineamac]

Read your thread, wow those were some dark days. And she was abusive too! Mine was emasculating over the last couple of years, but not abusive.

 

Glad to know you're in a better place now, and I hope I will be too.

 

Went to go look at apartments with her - I ended up getting one instead thank goodness - she would tell the people that were showing us obnoxiously that we are separated. Embarrassing, and of course we didn't get any of those.

 

Just unpredictable. But after no sex for so long, she's instantly back on the pill and having sex with people. And thinking of me as her parents.

 

When I think about it now she hopped in bed with me hardly knowing me.

 

Crazy days, and nights.

[fireflywy]

Read your thread, wow those were some dark days. And she was abusive too! Mine was emasculating over the last couple of years, but not abusive.

 

Glad to know you're in a better place now, and I hope I will be too.

 

Went to go look at apartments with her - I ended up getting one instead thank goodness - she would tell the people that were showing us obnoxiously that we are separated. Embarrassing, and of course we didn't get any of those.

 

Just unpredictable. But after no sex for so long, she's instantly back on the pill and having sex with people. And thinking of me as her parents.

 

When I think about it now she hopped in bed with me hardly knowing me.

 

Crazy days, and nights.

 

That sucks. Just have to stay strong. Honestly, it has been nine months for me since we broke up and even in all of that I went through, I still think of her everyday and October is hard.

 

Both you and I, when time finally tells its tales, will be better off even if it is hard to believe.

[makemineamac]

Thank you. If anyone hasn't told you this today - you're awesome! Really!

 

I'm feeling so much better tonight. Thanks to you and others. Feeling grateful. Haven't felt that way for awhile.

 

(That's something I never would have heard from her....)

[Quiet Storm]

Everybody has given a lot of great advice.

 

The important thing is to detach emotionally from her. You cannot allow your emotional side to drive your actions because that part of you is hurt and weak right now. You have to let the logical, smart side of you drive your behavior. When you feel those emotions bubbling up, tell yourself "Detach, detach, detach".Be patient with yourself.

 

One thing I disagree with others on is the dog. Don't let the dog go. You and the dog love each other and that bond doesn't have to be sacrificed, IMO. You've been through a lot emotionally and your dog can be a source of comfort, company, laughter and purpose. There's nothing like sloppy kisses and wagging tails to put a smile on your face and make you feel loved.

[makemineamac]

Thanks for the additional advice, and the mantra to go along with it, which I began to use as soon as I read it. I can't believe how powerful the mind is pulling me back into thinking about her. When it was a completely dysfunctional relationship, and there had been no 'feel good' time in a long, long time. It was just waiting to be 'called', which is what I did. Yet I still have these thoughts like maybe it wasn't that bad, when it was! It was terrible! And nobody would mention the elephant in the room until I did.

 

And I appreciate your take on the dog. She really means a lot to me,and is the first dog I have ever owned, the happiness she brought into our dark relationship made it bearable for few more years I guess. So I'm reluctant to let her go.

 

Maybe for now we continue to share the dog - I will never have to see her to do that, so I'm thinking why not?

 

(Unless the dog isn't ok with my new place or something, in which case I'll reevaluate.)

 

And I can use some of that happiness, and unconditional love.

 

Once again, thank you!

[BelleSkye]

Just some against the flow advice, make a decision about the dog. Either you or her keep it. No sharing. Too many set backs can come from this.

[makemineamac]

So today, I had to go back to our condo to grab a few things, and I also setup a remote control for the DVR for her. As usual she's unappreciative. She has totally and completely checked out of whatever we had.

 

So, I am unceremoniously going NC now and will see what happens over the weekend. I saw when I was at the house tonight that she had dropped the dog - Bette - for overnight daycare, so she can sleep with whoever she is sleeping with. Whatever. Anyway, apart from grabbing the bed on the 2nd, I am done with her.

 

There will be NC from this moment on apart from whatever communication is needed on me picking up the mattress and box spring.

 

Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Itspointless]

When you mentioned her abandonment issues and her instant detach I began to think of her being a "love avoidant." If you married her as you were older, and she as well, its most likely the case as more and more of what are known as "secure" attachers are off the market.

Check out the book Attached. It may help you understand her detachment mechanisms.

 

Hope the best for you buddy.

I was thinking the same as she sounds dismissive-avoidant attached, although I find the book Attached a nice start, I am not that enthousiastic about it: it is a bit judgemental.

 

My suggestions would be: by Why Can't I Change? How to Conquer Your Self-Destructive Patterns by Shirley Impellizzeri and some of the chapters in the book by Sarah Daniel, 'Adult Attachment Patterns in a Treatment Context, Relationship and narrative'

 

Take care of yourself, I am really sorry for you.

[makemineamac]

Is it judgemental about the people like me or the dismissive-avoidant attached? I am seeing the dismissive-avoidant thing. Talk about eye-opening.

 

Any messaging she sends me now - asking for help picking up the dog for instance - always ends with a message of some sort diminishing the task if I offer to do it, like "I will sort it out if you can't."

 

Not, thanks or anything. Just dead cold. Still don't understand how anyone would deal with someone like that longterm like I did, or if they ever get better. It's like she's someone else.

 

Still having a hard time with it all, and still expecting something to happen, an apology - anything,but there is nothing. So as you've all indicated focus on me is all I can do.

 

I'm excited in that just 9 days I will be out of my temporary place and into in my new place. Going furniture shopping tonight. Ikea here I come.

[Itspointless]

Is it judgemental about the people like me or the dismissive-avoidant attached? I am seeing the dismissive-avoidant thing. Talk about eye-opening.

 

Any messaging she sends me now - asking for help picking up the dog for instance - always ends with a message of some sort diminishing the task if I offer to do it, like "I will sort it out if you can't."

 

Not, thanks or anything. Just dead cold. Still don't understand how anyone would deal with someone like that longterm like I did, or if they ever get better. It's like she's someone else.

 

Still having a hard time with it all, and still expecting something to happen, an apology - anything,but there is nothing. So as you've all indicated focus on me is all I can do.

 

I'm excited in that just 9 days I will be out of my temporary place and into in my new place. Going furniture shopping tonight. Ikea here I come.

Hi makemineama, you sound strong, I admire that. Two years ago I only had something going on a few months with a dismissive-avoidant women. She pushed me away due to illness that she experienced. It has put me off-balance for a long time, it was a bit a repetition of a trauma from my adolescence for me: loosing someone due to illness with the exception that my ex is still out there.

 

The book Attached is a good read and I really liked it when reading it, so it is good you bought it. The thing is that its focal point is on relationships. On the one hand it does a good thing at that, but it is somewhat negative towards dismissive-avoidant attached people. It is true that dismissive-avoidant attached people rarely take the step to change themselves, but it does happen depending on the severity of it. Furthermore they do not give tips to avoidant people reading it leaving them a bit bewildered reading that people just should avoid them.

 

Having read what you wrote about your girlfriend I am afraid that this is the end for your relationship. The way she deals with problems and intimacy makes it hard to ever have a healthy relationship with her. Especially as her behaviour indicates that she does not want to work on it, but uses a defence mechanism instead: blaming and painting a negative picture about you. Sorry man. Chances are that she never will be happy with anyone, as when the intimacy becomes real with people attached like that, they start to distance.

 

Dismissive-avoidant people are superstars in suppressing feelings and memories. It is even so that with some of them anxiety for example due to being emotional does not reach awareness at all. Their brain has learned to process things very differently. What I like about those other two books is that they explain in detail - the first book in simple language - why that is and what happens in our brains, it made me really understand.

 

If you really want to know if that is her you should watch this video by a therapist:

I found it eye-opening. She is describing my ex right there.

[makemineamac]

Your messages have been turning lights on all over the place for me. I feel strangely better. So thank you for that. And wow, while I haven't watched the video - I will tonight, just some the descriptionsI am seeing are nothing short of fascinating for me. They explain a lot. I haven't yet read how you would 'reach' someone like this.

 

This description, is just crazy for me:

 

Dismissives are rarely so open about declaring themselves. They think highly of themselves and will tell you they value their self-sufficiency and independence—needing others is weak, feelings of attachment are strings that hold you down, empathy and sympathy are for lesser creatures.

 

And this, I never got, when I would leave and be gone for a few nights for work and return, she would hardly turn her head when I returned, barely acknowledge me. It just was not normal:

 

If a spouse is away for a period of time, it is natural to miss him.

 

But with separations, too, anxious attachment can deform the process. Clinical work suggests that people with what appears to be an avoidant or dismissive psychology often fail to recognize that separations have an emotional impact in them.

 

When a spouse is away, a person with this psychology may become obsessively focused on work, may even celebrate the separation as an opportunity to get more work done, but then be strangely, perhaps even cruelly distant from the spouse when he or she returns.

Edited October 23, 2015 by makemineamac
clarity

[makemineamac]

Well, Itspointless, you've solved the riddle for me it would appear, and I can now release. The video is exactly what she does. It's uncanny. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy really and it happens again and again.

 

And it sounds like it would take a whole lot of work to sort that out, I just wish I had found out sooner so I could have tried.

 

I cannot thank you enough, and will now start to work on my own issues as you and others have suggested.

 

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts on this after I finish the book and a couple of podcasts about this.

[Itspointless]

Well, Itspointless, you've solved the riddle for me it would appear, and I can now release. The video is exactly what she does. It's uncanny. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy really and it happens again and again.

 

And it sounds like it would take a whole lot of work to sort that out, I just wish I had found out sooner so I could have tried.

 

I cannot thank you enough, and will now start to work on my own issues as you and others have suggested.

 

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts on this after I finish the book and a couple of podcasts about this.

I am sorry to hear that buddy. You know the nick I have on this board described the feeling I had when I last saw her. She reminded me of the sister of Spock, I could not reach her at all. She rationalized everything and did not want to talk about everything I found important, like her health. She told me some things one time and that was it, 'because I deserved it'. It was like playing in some kind of a very painful joke. So I really feel for you.

 

For me it was a relieve to find some answers, although it took me a while. I just cannot imagine how it must be to find answers after nine years and probably blaming yourself a lot for the way she acted. On the other hand I am sure that you also have memories with her that you would not like to have missed (that is at least what I hope). One thing is for sure, you have learned an awful lot in those years and that is a good thing.

 

Working on ourselves is important as it is for a reason we are attracted to women like that and it is for a reason they are attracted to us. You will find some answers in the book Attached. I really recommend you to also read at least the book by Shirley Impellizzeri.

 

Keep us informed how you are doing and take good care of yourself.

[Itspointless]

Forgot to tell you, there are also excellent articles on the net by Robert T Muller and Stan Tatkin on dismissive-avoidant attachment.

[makemineamac]

I am sorry to hear that buddy. You know the nick I have on this board described the feeling I had when I last saw her. She reminded me of the sister of Spock, I could not reach her at all. She rationalized everything and did not want to talk about everything I found important, like her health. She told me some things one time and that was it, 'because I deserved it'. It was like playing in some kind of a very painful joke. So I really feel for you.

 

For me it was a relieve to find some answers, although it took me a while. I just cannot imagine how it must be to find answers after nine years and probably blaming yourself a lot for the way she acted. On the other hand I am sure that you also have memories with her that you would not like to have missed (that is at least what I hope). One thing is for sure, you have learned an awful lot in those years and that is a good thing.

 

Working on ourselves is important as it is for a reason we are attracted to women like that and it is for a reason they are attracted to us. You will find some answers in the book Attached. I really recommend you to also read at least the book by Shirley Impellizzeri.

 

Keep us informed how you are doing and take good care of yourself.

Yeah, the nickname makes sense now! It really is pointless, that's why I am more than a little relieved that I can now understand the behaviours she consistently showed throughout the relationship, and why I could never resolve them.

 

This also speaks volumes to me about my lack of proper responses in any of these situations where I should have confronted her or left as the treatment of me was unacceptable.

 

I was thinking last night about what it must be like to be like this, but as I learned in the video, this is all they know, they don't compute the way we do by connecting feelings to the situation, that's why they move away form the situation. So she'll never be able to understand anything from my perspective.

 

As for her moving on to someone else so quickly, not really surprising as there was nothing to feel about what she had with me. And the tendency will always be to move away, and move on.

 

I have changed the formatting of my email responses to her when she asks me questions, (someone had suggested earlier in the week to remove all niceties and emotion and she noticed last night regarding some logistics for next week), and added to the end of her email, "Hope all is ok with you", which is the only time she has shown any concern for me in the last 5 weeks. It was minimal, just thought it was interesting.

 

Anyway, thanks for the additional info about writers and articles. I think it will be a long time before I am ready to put myself out there, and I am really looking forward to having my own space.

 

I no longer fear seeing her, I no longer worry about sharing the dog, I can honestly say that while I didn't dodge the bullet - I really should have left years ago - I feel a little 'safer' now, understanding there is nothing to have with this person that would be healthy for me. Not even friendship at some point.

 

So, I'm going to get to work.

[makemineamac]

Yeah, the nickname makes sense now! It really is pointless, that's why I am more than a little relieved that I can now understand the behaviours she consistently showed throughout the relationship, and why I could never resolve them.

 

This also speaks volumes to me about my lack of proper responses in any of these situations where I should have confronted her or left as the treatment of me was unacceptable.

 

I was thinking last night about what it must be like to be like this, but as I learned in the video, this is all they know, they don't compute the way we do by connecting feelings to the situation, that's why they move away form the situation. So she'll never be able to understand anything from my perspective.

 

As for her moving on to someone else so quickly, not really surprising as there was nothing to feel about what she had with me. And the tendency will always be to move away, and move on.

 

I have changed the formatting of my email responses to her when she asks me questions, (someone had suggested earlier in the week to remove all niceties and emotion and she noticed last night regarding some logistics for next week), and added to the end of her email, "Hope all is ok with you", which is the only time she has shown any concern for me in the last 5 weeks. It was minimal, just thought it was interesting.

 

Anyway, thanks for the additional info about writers and articles. I think it will be a long time before I am ready to put myself out there, and I am really looking forward to having my own space.

 

I no longer fear seeing her, I no longer worry about sharing the dog, I can honestly say that while I didn't dodge the bullet - I really should have left years ago - I feel a little 'safer' now, understanding there is nothing to have with this person that would be healthy for me. Not even friendship at some point.

 

So, I'm going to get to work.

I also hae to say, that I don't know that I would have found some of these answers if I hadn't ended up here and heard from you, so thank you!

[Itspointless]

I also hae to say, that I don't know that I would have found some of these answers if I hadn't ended up here and heard from you, so thank you!

fireflywy did point you in the right direction, just sharing here what I have learned.

Yeah, the nickname makes sense now! It really is pointless, that's why I am more than a little relieved that I can now understand the behaviours she consistently showed throughout the relationship, and why I could never resolve them.

Unknowingly you probably even made it worse, just as I did.

I was thinking last night about what it must be like to be like this, but as I learned in the video, this is all they know, they don't compute the way we do by connecting feelings to the situation, that's why they move away form the situation.

With the severe cases probably yes. It is trauma which made them as such which is is a sad sad thing. This video by dr. Dan Siegel is just two minutes and explains everything we need to know:

Reading and hearing these things made it hard for me to get mad at her though, and anger is also good thing when grieving. But in reality I feel sad for her and sad for us as otherwise we would have been great (I still think that).

As for her moving on to someone else so quickly, not really surprising as there was nothing to feel about what she had with me.

That probably is not entirely true but feeling the love is probably unacceptable for her, she probably also has made a negative image of you throughout the years only giving room for the negative, as that gave her a change to distance a bit.

I have changed the formatting of my email responses to her when she asks me questions, (someone had suggested earlier in the week to remove all niceties and emotion and she noticed last night regarding some logistics for next week), and added to the end of her email, "Hope all is ok with you", which is the only time she has shown any concern for me in the last 5 weeks. It was minimal, just thought it was interesting.

it are these people who break up and sometimes come back multiple times to people: hot - cold - hot - cold. I was spared of that, but she did contact me several times asking me and hoping that was happy. She also said she broke up because she wanted me happy, as I was very important to her, sigh. Wanting you to leave when you are there, missing you when you are not there.

 

Anyway I am happy that I could help you a bit this far. If you have questions you are always welcome to ask as I have read a lot about this the last two years

[makemineamac]

Yes, I watched the video and it really does tell you everything you need to know as you said.

 

And yes, grateful for all the responses including fireflywy's guidance to this.

 

To think of what I accepted for so long, and the last couple of years/ Her mocking and minimizing me for the way I chew my gum, what I'm wearing, my posture, so many things.

 

Not loud abuse, but quiet, deliberate and hurtful comments all the time.

 

This while I continued to support her by cooking and doing whatever I could to make her life a little simpler.

 

For the last 4 years, she also slept in her own blankets, and I would prepare that for her every night. Just reinforcing the separation.

 

4 years ago, I also decided to quit smoking and start running, as it was something she did. I ended up losing 25 pounds and run 25 k a week still, but she didn't want to run with me. She never encouraged me, supported me, congratulated me or anything. Instead, she would mock what I look like when I run.

 

Just so many things becoming clearer now, how I accepted this for so long says so much. I'm lacking that's for sure. Just started reading Attached. I'm a Secure, though I would have thought the test would have revealed I was a little anxious, but no.

[Itspointless]

That you are securely attached is good news, I am a bit anxious-attached. You know being anxious does not have to mean that you are anxious attached as you thought. Attachment behaviours most of the time comes forward when we are already stressed or feeling low, stemming from very old insecurities with our caregivers. At these moments we switch to automatic programs that prevented us from danger in the past.

 

It is also clear that your ex could not let you love in and that is a real shame. That you became anxious due to her treatment is only human I think. But it also begs the question why you stayed so long with her? I know you love her but emotional abuse - which is what constant belittling is - does not really plea for the relation you both had. It is important for you to find out what it is that made you stay.

 

There is another book I often recommend, it is not about attachment: 'Reinventing Your Life: The Breakthrough Program to End Negative Behavior and Feel Great Again' By the psychologists Young and Klosko. The book by these two psychologists is far better than the title. It discusses the most common psychological life-traps in detail. It might be a good read for you, as you write that you lack something. On the plus side we all lack something, only most people do not work on it.