kkat Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 I am in a sticky place with a friend of mine and trying to decide if I am motivated to make an attempt to work through the conflict. The summary is that I had a problem with her behavior of frequently judging me (on random things - like my decision to buy something that wasn't her style, the footwear I wore on a rainy day, what time I get up in the morning, or what I order to eat in a restaurant are examples) and gently told her how I felt about it. She didn't react well and it has turned into a big issue. There have been some other issues in the friendship from my perspective and I'm weighing whether or not the friendship is ideal for me. She is, by the way, a nice and interesting person with many wonderful traits. I think she has been judged up the wazoo her entire life by her family and her behavior is learned. So I feel badly for her, but don't necessarily want to take it on. Anyway, she wants to come over and talk about it. I don't want to stir up more trouble but.... In the past when she has come to my house she has criticized my request that people not wear their shoes into my apartment, and she simply didn't take hers off. She made comments about my obsessive behavior, etc. The thing is, I actually am a clean person and clean alot, but I'm not a freak about it. I just live in the city and see the spit and dog poo and urine everything else on the street and don't like to have it tracked into my apartment. If I ask her to take off her shoes she'll get pissed. If I don't I'll be pissed. Am I a clean freak who should just chill on the shoe thing with her? She's the only one of my friends who has ever even blinked about taking her shoes off - many of my friends have the same rules at their apartments...
ConfusedInOC Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 Tell her "no shoes or you don't come in" and if she won't do it, don't let her in. The thing is, she's not repsecting you and if you let her continue to cross your "line of respect" she will never respect you and you won't have a fruitful friendship. You need to tell her straight up that you don't appreciate her judging you all the time and to stop it or you will end the friendship. Understand? You have to draw a line and make her stick to it. If she crosses it, show her tough love by following up on your threats. You will never gain respect if you do not have consequences for them disrespecting you.
Merin Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 IMO when in someone else's home is to respect thier wishes.. if that means taking off your shoes then you do so.. if it means they don't like cigarette smoke in thier home you don't smoke.. etc While trying to salvage the friendship is all okay and good to go, it need not be just on her terms... Because this is an issue, I would suggest not having this talk in your home, but somewhere else where neither one of you is already feeling hostile from the get go. Good Luck
johan Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 I'm with Merin on this. I'd just add that sometimes you are friends with someone in spite of problems they have, as long as it doesn't impact your ability to live your life how you choose. If they are judgmental or critical, that can't really affect you if you don't take it personally.
midori Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 In many parts of the world, Asia in particular, taking off one's shoes before entering a home is the absolute norm -- and to do otherwise would be seen as being unclean. I'm not Asian, but I grew up in a house kept tidy by a busy mother who insisted that we remove shoes in the entryway to avoid tracking dirt inside. I prefer this myself, and have no problem asking people to take off their shoes when they enter my apartment. In short: you're not weird, and your friend is obnoxious to refuse a direct request made by her hostess.
moimeme Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 I've always been of two minds on the shoe issue. I don't wear shoes in my place and I ask folks to take them off, too, but I realize that some people have major foot stank and I can see why they'd want to keep that to themselves - or at least confined. And, frankly, I'd prefer them to do so. Wipable shoes will do a lot less damage to your interior than socks soaked in stinky sweat, no? It's a dilemma, really. I wonder if Asians with foot troubles just never go visiting?
CurlyIam Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 I admit not having a feet problem, but I think proper hygene and clean shoes, mixed with sprays for really stinkin' footwear do a great job.
lindya Posted May 22, 2005 Posted May 22, 2005 I'd tell her nicely but firmly that you're certainly not an obsessive, it's a perfectly reasonable request and you'd appreciate it if she treated your home with the respect you treat hers. As Midori says, it's the cultural norm in many countries to take your shoes off at the door. It's hardly a huge thing to ask of someone - and in refusing to respect your wishes, she's the one who's making an issue where there doesn't need to be one. If her feet stink, she can always take some slippers round with her.
Author kkat Posted May 22, 2005 Author Posted May 22, 2005 Thanks so much for all the great ideas and approaches. What great people you are! Thank you!
Thinkalot Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Bit late, but just wanted to add, I agree. Ask her to take her shoes off. You are not being obsessive. She is being rude and disrespectful to you. Good luck working through it. BTW, The shoe issue is a funny one. I found that when I lived in Canada, taking shoes off was the norm...whereas here, in Australia, most people leave them on in their homes. I wondered if it was because of the difference in climate and footwear? who knows. In any event, I am quite happy to take off my shoes if that is what the homeowner wishes.
BigB Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 I agree she should do as you ask. However I'm one of those people that hates having to take their shoe's off in other people's homes, I still do it, I don't say anything, and I respect their wishes, but I hate it. A) I wear boots and taking them on/off is a PITA B) I crushed my foot in a motorcycle accident, and it's very painful for me to walk barefoot on hard surfaces. I end up limping around or having to sit.
alphamale Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by kkat She's the only one of my friends who has ever even blinked about taking her shoes off - many of my friends have the same rules at their apartments... it is an apt that you are renting. who cares about the damn carpet. it is not yours and will be replaced every few yrs by the landlord.
HotCaliGirl Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 I have a beautiful basket full of an assortment of nice socks and slippers to choose from, with a cute sign that says thank you for removing your footwear and wearing one of these~ I don't want anyone with their shoes or their used socks or barefeet (can be smelly or sweaty) in my house for cleanliness. Next to it is an enclosed shelving area to place their footwear in until they leave with a basket to place their used socks in. I've never had a complaint, but if someone doesn't respect my wishes then I don't respect them and if I don't respect them they are not welcomed in my house. That simple. If your friend doesn't obey your simple request, she shouldn't be a friend in the first place, especially on such a minor "issue." This would be a good way to test how much she cares about you or does she use little things she has control over to upset you instead, in a selfish way. Shoe removing is a very common practice, especially where I live. As a realitor, I preview and show homes in my area all the time and 90% of the time there are similar baskets with signs in all the homes we go into...no biggie but it is rude if you don't follow instructions, then you should not bother entering out of respect for the occupants. In this case, she is your friend and if she still has a problem, maybe she is immature - I don't know your ages - and you should get your point across and explain your reasoning so she understands better where you're coming from in case she doesn't. If someone has a foot problem or it would be a big burdon to remove their shoes, I have those blue paper-like slip-ons used by doctors with elastic that snug around the shoe from the outside. I've only had to use those on a few occassions, but maybe you could get some for your friend if she is that stubborn and this issue isn't worth losing her friendship over. It would be a semi-compromise.
alphamale Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by HotCaliGirl I don't want anyone with their shoes or their used socks or barefeet (can be smelly or sweaty) in my house for cleanliness. Next to it is an enclosed shelving area to place their footwear in until they leave with a basket to place their used socks in. I've never had a complaint, but if someone doesn't respect my wishes then I don't respect them and if I don't respect them they are not welcomed in my house. That simple. this is totally ridiculous HCG. I know people like this and usually they are totally anal-retentive and also have plastic covers on their "nice" furniture. Why not just ask them to check if their shoes are dirty or not and have mats for them to clean their shoes on. And what if your so-called "guests" trample on a thumb tack or on a large piece of glass and cut open their foot. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen HCG, you could lose everything! The vast majority of people do not make others take off their shoes when coming into their house. If you came over to my crib HCG and I had a house rule that all women take off their clothes before entering would you do that? Heck NO!!!! Because it is ridiculous. Maybe you can move to Japan
Moose Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 ALPHA, It's a matter of respect. Your hypothetical house rule of, "All women take off their clothes", certainly isn't respectful in my opinion. There's definitley an alternative motive hidden in that rule. Taking off your shoes to prevent dirt and grime being tracked is totally different. Personally, I couldn't give a care. We have a, (what we dubbed), "Mud Room", where the kids and guests will hang their clothes and leave their muddy shoes. If someone comes over and they walk in the house with their muddy shoes on, we don't freak out. It's only carpet, it can be cleaned or replaced. If one of us did speak up though, it's common courtesy that they remove their shoes out of respect for those who own the house and worked their tails off to keep it up. Maybe you're just not used to being respected. BTW, I've never, in my entire life, heard of anyone suing someone else for stepping on a tack in their home, or cutting their feet on anything else. I could be wrong, but your assumption that a person could lose, EVERYTHING, over this is what I would call ridiculous.
alphamale Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by Moose Personally, I couldn't give a care. We have a, (what we dubbed), "Mud Room", where the kids and guests will hang their clothes and leave their muddy shoes. If someone comes over and they walk in the house with their muddy shoes on, we don't freak out. It's only carpet, it can be cleaned or replaced. well look, MOOSE, this is what I was saying. Most people hate to take off their shoes. The orig poster lives in an apt. I mean I can see it if one lives in a big fancey house with fancy rugs and carpets, etc..... but come on, in a dumb apt where they replace the carpets every few yrs anyways. hey, if i go over to someones place and they ask me to remove shoes I will do so but I hate it because i feel wierd w/o my shoes on when I am outside my house. can you imagine someone giving a fancy dinner party and everyone has to take off their shoes? walking around in a suit without your fancy wingtips on or some woman in an evening dress who can't wear her $250 heels? that is ridiculous
XNemesisX Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 I agree with Alph. I live in an apartment, and maybe I could see this "rule" being okay if you live in a very fancy house. Even then, if you have parties or people over for a nice dinner...that would just look ridiculous to not have shoes on! When my parents first built their house and we hadn't lived there long they had this rule...but I have NEVER heard of anyone going to the extreme of what HCG does. That almost sounds like OCD. The only time I would particularly want someone to take off their shoes is if their shoes are muddy or snowy. Other than that, I couldn't care less! I live in an apartment for crying out loud and like Alpha said, it is replaced every few years anyway! My ex had this *dumpy* apartment and it would irritate me so bad when I would come over and he would freak out if I took one step on the carpet with my shoes on.
Moose Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 What's the difference between an Apartment and a Fancy House? It's still home. It's where the fridge is ain't it? I say the OP has the right to be they way they are no matter where they're living. In fact, I'd go so far to say that you both insulted this person's home calling it a dumb apartment. Home isn't just a place people.
moimeme Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 I have a beautiful basket full of an assortment of nice socks and slippers to choose from, with a cute sign that says thank you for removing your footwear and wearing one of these~ If someone has a foot problem or it would be a big burdon to remove their shoes, I have those blue paper-like slip-ons used by doctors with elastic that snug around the shoe from the outside. Those are terrific ideas! The vast majority of people do not make others take off their shoes when coming into their house. Again with the BS generalizations. Depends where you live,[color=orange] ALPHAMALE[/color] In my home city, most people don't ask you to take off your shoes but in other cities I've lived in or visited it's extremely common. In the end, it's the homeowner's choice. I used to carry a little pair of slippers with me to wear in others' houses. I will do so but I hate it because i feel wierd w/o my shoes on when I am outside my house. Well that's you. When my parents first built their house and we hadn't lived there long they had this rule...but I have NEVER heard of anyone going to the extreme of what HCG does. That almost sounds like OCD No, it's actually a very nice compromise for people who don't want to have to have their carpets cleaned constantly. Even wiped shoes can leave marks on floors and rugs.
XNemesisX Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by Moose In fact, I'd go so far to say that you both insulted this person's home calling it a dumb apartment. Home isn't just a place people. Hey I live in an apartment too so I'm not going to insult someone for living in an apartment! But I do think it's silly to be so anal about shoes when you rent a place where the carpet is replaced every couple years. I can understand if your shoes are nasty and dirty, wet, or muddy, but c'mon! Where do we draw the line between normal and obsessive-compulsive? But I will say this, if someone asks me to remove my shoes I will. Even if I think it's a little anal, I will still do it when asked (even if it's in an apartment). So I do think her friend should take off her shoes when she's asked to. Originally posted by moimeme Those are terrific ideas! More like VERY anal ideas!
swirlingdaisy Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 I have no idea why anyone would think there's such a huge distinction between whether one lives in an apartment or has their own home...grunge on the bottom of shoes is grunge. Just because someone lives in an apartment, where the carpet doesn't belong to them, what the hell does that matter? Maybe that mindset is why so many rental places are so grungy and in bad shape - because people don't give a sh*t, it's not theirs (though it's someone else's), who cares. Years ago when I lived in an apartment, I naturally had people take off their shoes (though frankly, it generally wasn't a big issue because I was fortunate enough to have thoughtful friends who just had common sense and I didn't generally even have to ask them to do the "obvious."). Most apartments don't have their carpets cleaned until the tenant moves out......so potentially the carpets go for years without being cleaned. If I lived in an apartment, would I want to walk around in my clean, freshy showered feet....on germs and grunge tracked in by hillbillies who didn't know the meaning of etiquette?...and then get into my bed with grungy feet? People walk on all kinds of things........they're in public bathrooms, they walk across grass that may have remnants of dog sh*t on it, they walk on sidewalks where someone may have horked up a big oogy..........that grunge remains on the bottom of one's shoes. It's disgusting to then track that into someone's home. There's a huge distinction between being clean and being obsessive-compulsive. And the deeper issue here is really about someone who has a friend who doesn't have any respect at all for her and her wishes. If you go to someone's home and they ask you to oblige by the rules of the house (eg: shoes off, no smoking in the house, no feet on the couch, etc), you should just do so out of respect and maturity. If it's too much for you to do this, you shouldn't go back there.
Pocky Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by kkat Am I a clean freak who should just chill on the shoe thing with her? Tell her to take the shoes off - it's not up for debate. She doesn't like it, she knows the way out.
Author kkat Posted May 23, 2005 Author Posted May 23, 2005 Thanks for the advice re addressing the boundaries in my friendship. I realize now the boundary this friend was crossing by not respecting my no-footwear-in-my-home issue is representative of her not respecting me in general. I am going to step away from the friendship in a respectful way. To comment on the whole apartment vs. house thing... In not all places (imagine this) are apartments rented, nor do they have necessarily have carpet. I have a beautiful home, with hardwood floors and antique rugs. The assumption that I rent an apartment with a dirty carpet was a little off...but even if I did, I would still have a right to set the requests or rules (as examples stated - no smoking please, no shoes, whatever....) for my home. If I am unreasonable in my rules, I will suffer not having any friends or guests. If I am reasonable, respectful friends will not have a problem. And, I live in the city, and the sidewalks are filthy. I'd rather have mud from the farm tracked through my house than what is on the bottom of my shoes, or others, from outside my front doors. It's not OCD that I don't want filth in my home. Why only care about cleanliness in your home if it's a rented home? It's still your home - whether you rent it or live in it, isn't it? Thanks again for all the great input. It really helped me sort through my situation and I am very appreciative!
Moose Posted May 23, 2005 Posted May 23, 2005 Why only care about cleanliness in your home if it's a rented home? It's still your home - whether you rent it or live in it, isn't it?Yes, you are 100% accurate. I don't think I've heard anyone say to me that they're going to the bank's lien, or to John Q. Public apartments C-4, or anything to that affect. Some people just aren't good stewards. Our property is just that, property. Makes no difference to me whether or not I have it, but if I do, I'm taking care of it. And noone is going to ruin it on my watch.
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