Author hubster Posted October 17, 2015 Author Posted October 17, 2015 Quite simply, it sounds like she is still thinking only of herself. A truly repentant WW would, at this point, be doing anything you asked....and some of these you wouldn't even HAVE to ask. It is on HER to get on board and begin thinking of YOU. I agree, but here again, I know that you are right and I don't know what I am doing...just emotional right now. I know that if it were me that cheated or even wronged my wife in any way, I would be "kissing her ass" to make it right. She has always had a selfish streak in her. Anyway, thanks for being speaking the truth but trust me, I am beating myself up everyday and it hurts that I am so damn weak now when I used to be strong but again, it is hard to simply use logic right now. I have to get the kids through the holidays with some normalcy and then see what happens.
Mrs. John Adams Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I agree with Autumn....she should be willing to do whatever you ask of her. If she is not...it strengthens your case for divorce. If you ask her to go to mc....and she refuses...you have an answer. If you ask her to read the book how to help your spouse heal from your affair by linda macdonald...and she refuses....you have an answer. If you ask her to read this forum and she refuses...you have an answer. She how this works? Her actions and behavior will help you decide what is best for you. This is now about you...you get to be selfish. When a spouse cheats...they take away the betrayed spouses rights...they made all the decisions for the spouse without asking them. They were only thinking of themselves. Now....the wayward spouse has given up their rights....they have given the power back to the betrayed spouse...and now it is time for them to PROVE to you they deserve a second chance. The first step is she needs to become transparent. She should give to you all of her accounts and passwords...she should always tell you where she is and who she is with....and she should do these things BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO...not because you demand them. IF she has not done this...then you may have an answer. 2
autumnnight Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Here's the thing about love...sometimes it must be tough. Allowing and enabling her to continue this kind of selfishness and destructiveness to your marriage is NOT loving. People who love us want us to be the best version of us. A WW who is still focused on themselves is NOT the best version of herself.
jbrent890 Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Sadly, I just don't see you having anything to work with here. Not only did you have to find out about the affair on your own, she TT the crap out you. In addition, she is unwilling to do the things to make her a safe for you. I have seen this before with Waywards. They care more about their guilt and pain, than they do their BSs. This behavior will go own for years if left unchecked. Sadly, the only things these Waywards respond to is definitive action. As much as I usually agree with Mrs JA'S advice, I don't think sitting around for a year hoping she changes is going to accomplish anything. The fact is, you know what you need to do. My suggestion is to at the very least, go speak to a lawyer and if it comes to it, file for divorce. You can always stop the proceedings if you feel she is changing, but at this rate, I don't see another option. as Autumn said, your wife caused this and she needs to fix it. If she can't even do that, then you have your answer. 3
Mrs. John Adams Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I agree with you jbrent...but HE agreed to stay and give her a year. So I addressed this with the fact that this seemed to be his decision. I would not have agreed to give her a year considering her present behavior...but it was what he chose. If she is making no attempt to help him in his healing...I would not give her a year...but that was his choice. 1
aliveagain Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Give her your terms for reconciliation and these are not negotiable just as her taking on a lover were not negotiable for you. Anything she refuses to do for reconciliation is the same as still choosing her affair and shows she is still indifferent to you. Do not be her plan "B." It is bad enough that in order to stay married you have to accept the affair but you also have to eat the sh*t sandwich of the mind movies of the two of them having porn star sex in a park you have to drive by all the time. She probably did things with him she has never done with you. I have to be honest, it will be hard getting past the fact she had sex with another man for over a year. Just think of how good an actress she is to deceive you for that long a period of time. You will never get over the imbalance her infidelity has created, you will feel cheated that she got to live out her fantasy and you can't. What you will do if you stay is learn to accept it but you will never forget what she did to you and your family. You do need to talk to a lawyer so you know your rights and the rights you have to your children, they need to be protected, you still don't know how this will turn out. Your best defence is to be prepared. She doesn't sound that remorseful and it's better you know the truth now rather than waste years of your life with someone who isn't as committed to your marriage as you. 1
Lois_Griffin Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I have to get the kids through the holidays with some normalcy and then see what happens. That's simply a stalling tactic to do nothing and continue living in limbo because you're too immobilized by fear to take the reins and start running the show. When you do finally take control of the situation, maybe then, things will begin to progress. Until then, you're doing yourself no favors at all letting your fear control you. 2
Bryanp Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 If the roles had been reversed and you were cheating on your wife behind her back for over a year having sex in a park with some woman and putting your wife at risk for STD's; do you honestly think she would have been so accepting and forgiving as you? You know that there had to be times that you were intimate with your wife after she had been with him. She has shown and continues to show that she has absolutely no respect for you at all. IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?
Author hubster Posted October 17, 2015 Author Posted October 17, 2015 If the roles had been reversed and you were cheating on your wife behind her back for over a year having sex in a park with some woman and putting your wife at risk for STD's; do you honestly think she would have been so accepting and forgiving as you? You know that there had to be times that you were intimate with your wife after she had been with him. She has shown and continues to show that she has absolutely no respect for you at all. IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL? Bryan, you are correct in many ways but--we actually went a year and a half without having sexy during the affair. This was a problem to me but my wife had never been that "sexual" so to speak from the beginning, of course she was very sexual with the other man. So many things just baffle me..or I am a complete friggin idiot or both....I know everyone, pile on; I deserve it for being a fool.
T-16bullseyeWompRat Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Bryan, you are correct in many ways but--we actually went a year and a half without having sexy during the affair. This was a problem to me but my wife had never been that "sexual" so to speak from the beginning, of course she was very sexual with the other man. So many things just baffle me..or I am a complete friggin idiot or both....I know everyone, pile on; I deserve it for being a fool. No, YOU went a year and a half without sex, not her. If you know you are acting foolish, then CHANGE it! Start showing yourself a little respect and force her to step up to the plate for you. But she never will if she knows deep down you can't live without her. She will walk all over you as long as you allow it. 1
HereNorThere Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Dude, she is literally watching you die in front of her eyes and does not give a crap. Seriously, you've lost 30 pounds! You may not have had control of her cheating but you do have control of who you allow in your life. It's time to let go of her and move on. Sure, it's hard and it hurts, but life sometimes hands us these these situations. It's no different than the death of a loved one. We grieve but we also bury our dead and move on. This sir, is dead. Bury your dead and move on. The person you thought she was does not exist. Quit holding onto vapors and move before you die. And what's this "she's going to keep the house" bs. No, no way. No more Mr. Nice Guy. If you don't like her looking at her phone, you take it and put int garbage disposal. If she buys another put that one in there too. Quit being such a doormat and stand up for yourself. Let this be the last time this bully takes your lunch money. 7
TX-SC Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Nothing is universal, so what I am about to say may upset some people and MAY not apply to your situation. Women in general prefer a man that stands up for himself and is strong. Your crying and blubbering over this while she refuses to do any real work to fix the problem only makes you look weak in her eyes. She is basically saying "Get over it!" which we ALL know is no easy task. When she cheated, she broke your wedding vows and devalued your marriage. This was not a "mistake" on her part. It was a cold, calculated stab in the back. If she got really drunk and had a ONS then immediately confessed, THAT might be considered a mistake. A long term affair is no mistake. And, she covered it up quite well. So, what do you do? Learn about the 180. Perhaps go to Survivinginfidelity.com and read some of their healing library and post to the "just found out" forum. After taking back control of your own emotions and actions (180), make sure she understands that R on her part requires that she put in some effort to fix what she broke. At this time, you have no trust in her and you no longer see her as the person you married. In order for her to fix herself, she MUST have remorse (not just regret), and she needs guidance from IC to figure out her boundary issues and get to the root cause of the cheating. There are many books to help HER too, including "Not Just Friends". Next, you should see a lawyer to see what your options are. This does two things: 1) It gives you an idea of what divorce would be like, and 2) It shows your wife that you are serious about this and will NOT sweep it under a rug. For some people, once a marriage has been destroyed like this, they require a divorce. Then, they can start over fresh. It's not a requirement though. You can certainly R with no D. But she HAS to show true remorse and really work on herself and the marriage. In the meantime work on yourself through counseling and work on the 180. See a lawyer for an initial consultation and explain that reasoning to her. Let her know she must put in the effort or you will divorce her. Typedon my phone so forgivethe typos. 3
fellini Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 If she believes in her heart that her affair was not about you, then she has to heal that which she knows is broken in her. She ended the affair I take it, (prior to you knowing anything) and called the OM's wife to try to get him off her back. He obviously wanted more. Hard as it may seem to see it this way: it may be that this affair was entirely about her, and not about you. Now of course you have been traumatised by this. That goes without saying. But a person who has stepped outside a marriage, lowered herself as far as possible by having backseat / park at night hookups, is not LIKELY to be a good candidate for the kind of remorse you are looking for - (people are telling you you should expect to see): reaching out to help you with your pain and at the same time dealing with her own deamons and complete loss of dignity. What am I saying. That given your WW did things you didn't believe possible in a lifetime, you might also consider that her capacity to suddenly fulfill the role of ideal WW is equally unlikely to occur. But this does not mean that she is not repentent or interested in doing the work. Like you, she needs to learn to repair. We were not given a post infidelity manual when we married, and each step, each mistake, each success is part of a long learning process. Judge for yourself how much she is capable of getting and helping you get past this. But from my experience, not from the template of LoveShack 10 steps to reconciliation, (which are great and would be wonderful if she could do them) but rather, at least in this window you have given, the template the two of you build for yourselves. If you set your yardstick to some of the "must have right now" that you will hear here on LS, then I can tell you, you are going to be quite disappointed in the result. 2
Author hubster Posted October 17, 2015 Author Posted October 17, 2015 If she believes in her heart that her affair was not about you, then she has to heal that which she knows is broken in her. She ended the affair I take it, (prior to you knowing anything) and called the OM's wife to try to get him off her back. He obviously wanted more. Hard as it may seem to see it this way: it may be that this affair was entirely about her, and not about you. Now of course you have been traumatised by this. That goes without saying. But a person who has stepped outside a marriage, lowered herself as far as possible by having backseat / park at night hookups, is not LIKELY to be a good candidate for the kind of remorse you are looking for - (people are telling you you should expect to see): reaching out to help you with your pain and at the same time dealing with her own deamons and complete loss of dignity. What am I saying. That given your WW did things you didn't believe possible in a lifetime, you might also consider that her capacity to suddenly fulfill the role of ideal WW is equally unlikely to occur. But this does not mean that she is not repentent or interested in doing the work. Like you, she needs to learn to repair. We were not given a post infidelity manual when we married, and each step, each mistake, each success is part of a long learning process. Judge for yourself how much she is capable of getting and helping you get past this. But from my experience, not from the template of LoveShack 10 steps to reconciliation, (which are great and would be wonderful if she could do them) but rather, at least in this window you have given, the template the two of you build for yourselves. If you set your yardstick to some of the "must have right now" that you will hear here on LS, then I can tell you, you are going to be quite disappointed in the result. Fellini, although many posts on LS have been helpful, you have truly shed the greatest light on the subject for me. If I am reading what you say correctly, the bottom line is that in a perfect world, marriage, and with people that are thinking the way they "should be" they should put in the necessary work "by the book" but then when they are damaged themselves or hurting themselves that individuals are sometimes not capable of doing the work they need to do, such as may be the current situation with my WW. I am not making excuses as I still may leave but I want to give her the opportunity to work on her own depression from an abortion that she says she only had to "save the marriage because she loves me." I mean that is a tough decision and one that know one would make lightly and she is depressed and although she did me horribly, she is also dealing with my pressure to repair my hurt. She also does not have supportive family. Her mother is a drug addict who has even told her that she "wishes she would have aborted her." We all have our demons and this is why despite my despair and hurt, I am trying to give us the opportunity to succeed and give my wife time to come around. I will be as patient as I can and maybe it will work and maybe it won't...but I want to get off of the roller coaster. However, clarity is hard to come by when I am as emotional as I am. I also feel that my wife is a good person deep down. I was also not a very attentive husband for 3 or 4 years due to bringing my old job home which left the door open for her to cheat (not saying it was right just saying that had I been a more caring and loving husband, she may have never given in to the temptation of an old flame trying to romance her had she been in a "happy marriage.) Thanks so much for your post. 2
Mrs. John Adams Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Well..I will say this....the story gets deeper and sadder as we get more details. You are in good hands...so I will bow out. We have some fellas here VBM, GFR, BDT....if they come back they can really be of some assistance to you. You might want to read their threads...tons of information on them. 2
drifter777 Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Keep doing what you are doing and you will keep feeling more disgust, more resentment, and, eventually, true contempt. Your mind will be tormented by dreams and visions of her having sex in that car. More and more little things will trigger the memories and make you sick. All this is your life if you keep doing what you are doing. Find out what a 180 means and commit to it. Don't wait a year - that promise you made was under duress and is meaningless. Take action to save yourself before you get accustomed to being a spineless jerk just whining about how you can't leave because you love her so much. That excuse is bull$hit - you are simply afraid of being alone and starting over. Dig in with that 180 - if not now, when? 2
TX-SC Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Fellini, although many posts on LS have been helpful, you have truly shed the greatest light on the subject for me. If I am reading what you say correctly, the bottom line is that in a perfect world, marriage, and with people that are thinking the way they "should be" they should put in the necessary work "by the book" but then when they are damaged themselves or hurting themselves that individuals are sometimes not capable of doing the work they need to do, such as may be the current situation with my WW. I am not making excuses as I still may leave but I want to give her the opportunity to work on her own depression from an abortion that she says she only had to "save the marriage because she loves me." I mean that is a tough decision and one that know one would make lightly and she is depressed and although she did me horribly, she is also dealing with my pressure to repair my hurt. She also does not have supportive family. Her mother is a drug addict who has even told her that she "wishes she would have aborted her." We all have our demons and this is why despite my despair and hurt, I am trying to give us the opportunity to succeed and give my wife time to come around. I will be as patient as I can and maybe it will work and maybe it won't...but I want to get off of the roller coaster. However, clarity is hard to come by when I am as emotional as I am. I also feel that my wife is a good person deep down. I was also not a very attentive husband for 3 or 4 years due to bringing my old job home which left the door open for her to cheat (not saying it was right just saying that had I been a more caring and loving husband, she may have never given in to the temptation of an old flame trying to romance her had she been in a "happy marriage.) Thanks so much for your post. This may seem like agood course of action, but in the end you have to take positive steps to fix your relationship or your marriage will eventually die. She obviously has lots to work though and your actions at this point are doing NOTHING more than rugsweeping this. You were on the right track when you separated and tried to work on your own issues, but that was never really accomplished. When a person reads your story , they get the impression that YOU are putting all of your effort into making her feel better. She had an abortion to save your marriage. Okay, yes that may have hurt her quite a lot. But it wasn't anything you did that caused her to get pregnant with the OM's child. This was all because of her cheating. Screwing in a car at the park? Yeah, she has some things to work on. You can take partial responsibility for your marriage not being the best, but that in no way should justify her cheating. That's completely her fault. She has to take responsibility for it and figure out WHY she was able to cheat. If not, she will eventually follow that route again. You really need to think this through. What you are doing IS NOT WORKING. 3
Spectre Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 So yet another thread to put into my "reasons you should not stay with cheaters" box. Dude, leave her. Seriously, she has already stolen years of your life, don't let her steal your manhood as well. 2
Popsicle Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I started have that "sixth sense" feeling because things had been going really badly for use for about a year so one time she asked me to reply to an email for her for a possible new job because I type much faster than her and I saw one with subject "cheating" which was very weird to me. I had never snooped in her stuff before because I never had any suspicions. So later, I opened it up and it had copies of texts where her and the OM had talked farely explicitly back and forth. It was vague though so it looked liked the texts from her old phone. She still had this old phone and it was even still kept on a charger for some reason on her night stand even though it had no service, so I went on it and saw the texts between them but there was a gap that didn't tell the whole story and left some interpretation. So I confronted her and she said she crossed the line that it was basically sexting but nothing physical. That hurt but I was willing to get past it. As time went on and I snooped more, I found more and more and she finally broke down and told me the majority of the truth and then because I became obsessed I began finding more details because she wasn't as good at hiding her tracks as she could have been. By the time I caught her, she had already told his wife because she broke it off but he wouldn't stop contacting her etc. Damn. That's horrible. You mentioned things were going badly for about a year before you found out? What was going badly?
jbrent890 Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Well..I will say this....the story gets deeper and sadder as we get more details. You are in good hands...so I will bow out. We have some fellas here VBM, GFR, BDT....if they come back they can really be of some assistance to you. You might want to read their threads...tons of information on them. I could not agree more. The whole year and a half without sex just makes me cringe. OP, I said it once, and I will say it again and if this sounds like a 2x4, I'm sorry. The thing is, you can't be passive about this. Sadly, Waywards don't respond to passivity. In fact, not only do they prefer it, they take advantage of it. In her mind, she feels that you aren't going anywhere, which is why she feels she doesn't have to try right now. Personally, I think you should go this route. Tell her that you will stick it through the holidays, but if she doesn't get herself into counseling, your done. Her going to IC is the least she could do. Trust me, either she is going to try to save the marriage or she is going to say lets call it quits. Either way, you are out of the limbo you are in. I have never agreed with the whole sit around and wait and see what they do advice. I could see if she was doing something to help, but waiting in limbo is only going to destroy you. In the mean time, I suggest you read the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. The one theme that I have seen with a lot of BHs as of late is that they feel they have to be a KISA after an affair is revealed. Thats only going to bite you in the butt my man. 1
Oberfeldwebel Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Some people quickly reconcile, while others never do. This is not so much right or wrong, just that all of us perceive the issue of infidelity differently. However, for the injured party to be able to forgive the wayward spouse (WS) has to confess their sins and be contrite for their transgressions. When a WS does not want to seek counseling, this shows a lack of remorse and that their feelings are more important than yours. This is a continuation of the sense of entitlement that they exhibited during the affair. You stated that the affair is out of character for her. While she may not have had a previous affair, I am concerned that you may have placed her on a proverbial pedestal and therefore in an elevated position in the relationship. Marriages need to be a relationship of equal partners working towards a common goal. Also the relationship has to be more important than our individual desires. To right this ship and get this marriage on back on course it must include counseling. Therefore I recommend the following. If you have not already done so, expose the affair, there is no good in you bearing the burden of the secret. Many times exposure also garners the support of others that can help the WS see the error of their ways. Schedule a counseling session for the both of you and make it a couple of weeks after the exposure to give her time. Let her know about the session and that failure to attend will let you know that she is not serious in fixing this marriage. I believe most relationships can be fixed if both parties work to resolve the issues. While we all want to save our relationships, it is not always possible. I was devastated at the end of my marriage, but realized that I had to respect myself enough to move forward. It was one of the best decisions of my life, along with finding a truly loving and caring woman that has stood beside my for many years. Hopefully she will decide to do the hard work necessary to fix the problems, but if not you have to move forward. If divorce become necessary, I recommend individual counseling so that the problems of this relationship does not sabotage your future relationships. 1
Horton Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I am not making excuses as I still may leave but I want to give her the opportunity to work on her own depression from an abortion that she says she only had to "save the marriage because she loves me." I mean that is a tough decision and one that know one would make lightly and she is depressed and although she did me horribly, she is also dealing with my pressure to repair my hurt. She had the abortion with you before her affair or was it during her affair and was this something she hid from you or something you were actively involved in? May sound overly prying to you, but this could potentially shed some light on her behavior IMO. 1
Author hubster Posted October 17, 2015 Author Posted October 17, 2015 She had the abortion with you before her affair or was it during her affair and was this something she hid from you or something you were actively involved in? May sound overly prying to you, but this could potentially shed some light on her behavior IMO. She confessed when I found out about the affair. The affair had ended beforr she found out about the pregnancy.
Horton Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) She confessed when I found out about the affair. The affair had ended beforr she found out about the pregnancy. I see, well you had replied to another poster earlier about her possibly being incapable of helping you right now due to her own depression so I asked about the abortion in an attempt to help me decipher what her motives might be. For instance if she would have had the abortion with you before the affair then perhaps the affair was her way(in her mind) of getting some kind of revenge against you for 'making her' have an unwanted abortion or if she got pregnant with the OM and then you told her she had to have the abortion in order to stay married that might help me comprehend her complete lack of effort in fixing the damage she has caused due to resentment about being pressured into aborting her child. I was basically attempting to give her the benefit of the doubt(however small) that she wasn't just being a self centered woman-child, but apparently that's exactly what she is. It is possible that she'll eventually wake up and realize that she's sinking in quicksand and that she's dragging you down with her(for no good reason I might add), but that doesn't sound like a very pleasant life for you just waiting around for her to have an epiphany that may never come. Edited October 17, 2015 by Horton
Try Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I am trying to reconcile and she says that she is too but she is doing all the wrong things--she refuses to go to counseling and she says she doesn't want to talk about the affair because it makes her depressed and ashamed all over again so this makes it difficult to work through things. I have been going to lots of counseling by myself. I didn't go into a lot of details because honestly, I am just trying to vent a little I suppose...just hurting right now. I read your from your other posts and can say that she is not trying to reconcile. You may be willing to try, but she is not. When she refuses to talk to you about the affair because of the way that it makes her feel, she is telling you that your feelings do not matter to her at all. She offers you no real compassion and wants you to just deal with it. She used you to raise her children, and now that they are older, she just does not need you as much anymore. Sure if you are willing to help pay the bills, raise her children as if they were your own, and not require her to have as much sex with you as she did with her lover, she will let you hang around, but only if you STF up about the affair. She is an remorseful cheater. This marriage will not end well for you. If it does not end today, it will end tomorrow. The only question that you really have is do you want to drag out the suffering until she has used you all up. 1
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