Abandonment issues in dating?

[nb482]

I recently posted a thread about a current situation and this is an update. I feel I understand the situation better.

 

I've been dating a girl since June and things have gone amazingly. We click very well and it feels great. She broke up with me a few weeks ago out of the blue stating everything was great, but she felt no attraction. I knew this was nonsense because I definitely felt things were mutual. Something felt off with how she was breaking it up.

 

She has kept in touch, though, and it feels more like she's pulled away a bit than broken up with me. She asked me to hang a week after the breakup and it went great...like nothing had happened...kissing, hugging, etc. Next day...she says she can't do it and needs to move on. I respond with disappointment, but tried to accept it. Next day she asks if we can still talk about Lord of the Rings, which we had been reading together (outloud, often). I said, sure...if we can go on that hike we had planned soon. She said sure.

 

She asked me to do the hike this past Monday and again it went amazingly. She said in her text she didn't want to send mixed signals. We started off slow, but halfway up the mountain we were getting close again...she initiated some of it. At the summit, she said she might just need some time. She acknowledged how she missed me and that she had strong feelings for me. I felt more connected with her this night than I had in awhile..I could see it in her eyes. I spent the night too. We've been in touch since then and things seem to be going ok. But, I can't help it if I'm anticipating another pull-away.

 

Here's the thing. She lost her father to suicide when she was 12...he was depressed and shot himself. That's abandonment, capital A. Her last relationship was with a guy she really liked and after a bit over a year, he bailed suddenly and just said "it's me, not you"...no closure. An obvious trigger. Her anger toward him is still present. She broke up with me right around the one year anniversary of that breakup. We were starting to get pretty close.

 

There was nothing wrong with our relationship...it was solid and the connection is obviously still growing between us. Lately it feels as if we really enjoy each others company and we grow closer each time we hang out, but when apart often she talks herself out of it. I think things were made worse with her birth control, which was messing with her emotionally a bit. She stopped it 2 weeks back. This feels like abandonment issues and I'm not sure how to approach it. I don't want to mess it up because I really like her.

 

I feel like the only thing I can do is be myself...be there, be loving, be consistent, and not pressure her too much. Give it a bit of time. Build trust.

 

Has anybody dealt with this before with a SO, or maybe yourself? Can you help me understand my predicament? Have any advice?

 

Thanks!

[nb482]

I should add that I do know she is NOT in contact with her ex and there is nobody else she is seeing right now. Also, I'm 33 and she's 32, if that helps.

Edited October 14, 2015 by nb482

[DivorcedDad123]

When someone tells you how they feel, believe them. Don't project what you "think" is going on. At her age, she's had alot of time to deal with her issues, so don't chalk it up to abandonment. If you let her, she'll push/pull you until she decides she's had enough, or someone else enters the picture.

[candie13]

OP, all you're saying makes sense and does build a pretty accurate picture. You may even be right about her and it may be her dad / ex bf that made her this... basket case.

 

But see... she needs to work on it herself. Herself, not you. You are the bf, not the psychologist. If anything, you should only be looking at whatever she is bringing to you, as a partner. And that is not very much, OP.

 

I know your reasoning makes sense and your instincts are telling you to still pursue her, but someone who had such a traumatic emotional past may need a lot of time - and a lot of heartache and broken RS - before they decide it's time to move on and work on themselves. If they ever do.

 

See... that's her job. You're supposed to be a perfectly fine 33 years old guy who wants to meet and date a perfectly fine 32 years old. No drama and unexpected break ups.

 

Now... she may have had a traumatic past, but you also seem to be attracted to women who are in trouble. It takes 2 to tango. Realize... that maybe she doesn't need your help. Maybe she is in a phase where she physically feels the need to watch out for herself. Please don't be her emotional punching ball until she realizes she really doesn't want to be with you.

 

This girl needs therapy, not a bf. IT would be wiser to slowly let her go and accept she may never be a person who can be in a RS full time. Do you really want to get into this sort of complications with someone who is emotionally unavailable herself?

 

LEt it go, mate. I mean... talk to her. Tell her about her pattern, if she doesn't realize it. and then ask her how she wants to live her life: scared and always running away from emotional closeness or giving it a go and risking to be happy? And whatever answer she comes back with, please take her word for it. No more back and forth. You can give her all the support in the world... but she has to choose, she has to tell you about her choice and she has to stick to it. You have to too.

 

best of luck

[nb482]

OP, all you're saying makes sense and does build a pretty accurate picture. You may even be right about her and it may be her dad / ex bf that made her this... basket case.

 

best of luck

 

I agree with what you say. I'm not planning to put my entire life on hold for her for a long time. But, I also really like her and feel I need to put some effort into it. As I said, even with the pulling away, we seem to be continually growing closer. Maybe she just needs some time to build some trust? No, I'm not her psychologist, not do I want to be. I understand it's ultimately her choice. But, to leave her so soon when we're this compatible otherwise and both care about each other, seems premature. We all have baggage of some sort...especially when you're dating in your 30's and 40's. I feel good about her, though, and want to give it at least a bit of a chance.

[candie13]

I agree with what you say. I'm not planning to put my entire life on hold for her for a long time. But, I also really like her and feel I need to put some effort into it. As I said, even with the pulling away, we seem to be continually growing closer. Maybe she just needs some time to build some trust? No, I'm not her psychologist, not do I want to be. I understand it's ultimately her choice. But, to leave her so soon when we're this compatible otherwise and both care about each other, seems premature. We all have baggage of some sort...especially when you're dating in your 30's and 40's. I feel good about her, though, and want to give it at least a bit of a chance.

 

fair enough, I totally understand that you care about her and that you are a fixer - why else would you chose someone who needs fixin' .

 

I totally agree about people in their 30s and 40s carrying emotional baggage, it's just that some have one suitcase and others have a full train of it.

 

Anyways, careful to not over invest and be especially attentive at not becoming her safety net / or emotional punching bag.

 

I love fixers, very dependable . I'm a fixer, myself, I think !

[salparadise]

I understand it's ultimately her choice. But, to leave her so soon when we're this compatible otherwise and both care about each other, seems premature. We all have baggage of some sort...especially when you're dating in your 30's and 40's. I feel good about her, though, and want to give it at least a bit of a chance.

 

I think you've given it plenty of chance, and what you've learned is that she consistently does the push/pull... fear of intimacy, fear of abandonment. She can't let you closer than arm's length but gives enough encouragement to keep you hopeful and attached, to keep trying and wanting more... this is her way.

 

I dated a women for 5-6 months in 2014 and she was just like that. It their way of maintaining control, which they use defensively to assuage the fear of vulnerability... which of course a person must be able to tolerate or else they can't submit to love. It's an anxiety ridden, self-serving, self-defeating pattern. The intimate partner occupies a position but is never completely accepted. It's sort of a half-life that is drama-filled but never truly fulfilling.

 

Here's what I think you need to accept... you may win the battle, but if you do you lose the war. The reason is that they never quit the defensive crap and you'll never be able to experience the joy of deep intimacy. They just aren't capable of being all-in and not holding back. It's sad for them, of course, but for an emotionally healthy partner who wants a fulfilling lifetime relationship there is no choice but to accept what is and look for a person who is capable of a fully reciprocal relationship.

Edited October 14, 2015 by salparadise

[candie13]

I agree with sal. If you crave a deeply emotional and intimate connection, she won't be able to provide you this.

 

I understand you love her and you want her, but think about what sort of connection you really crave. How do you want to be loved and accepted ? And then ask yourself if she can give you that.

 

at least, be aware that she may be emotionally unavailable and don't throw yourself head first in the RS.

[kpl]

I stand by what I said in your last post. This girl feeds off drama and seems a bit manipulative. I have a feeling she doesn't realize what she is doing and just doing what feels good to her but she isn't healthy enough to date end of story.

 

The longer you keep her in your life the more hurt you will end up. Her reasons for not wanting a relationship, not wanting a spark really don't matter. She told you she doesn't want you. She has been wishy washy and playing with your emotions and she keeps actively choosing to not have you around. She is using you right now for emotional comfort and you are allowing it. You will end up drained from this experience and feel used all because you just wanted to help.

 

I forgot you were in your 30s as well and I actually cringed a bit when I read this. OP have you had a stable long term relationship before? What did that look for you? Saying we could be great only if is not a way to start a relationship you should just be great as is.

[Oregon_Dude]

She has issues that she refuses to address. She should be in therapy. She is a grown-*ss woman, and while I feel for her in regards to the loss of her father, she isn't doing the self-work that it takes to be an emotionally mature adult.

 

She is damaged, OP, and will continue to drag you through the muck as long as you remain her puppy dog. Women like this cause emotional harm to others. No contact. I'm sure she's amazing and everything, but she is also using you like a puppet to cater to her ever-changing needs and whims. People like this will make you insane and damage your self esteem. Get. out.

[Stage5Clinger]

Has anybody dealt with this before with a SO, or maybe yourself? Can you help me understand my predicament? Have any advice?

 

I wouldn't read too much into the father's suicide. She's probably been to therapy and while it is awful it's probably not her motive to keep you at arms length. Instead, I feel like even after a year of being with you she is still not over her ex. If she doesn't want to work on you two being a couple then wrap it up, but if she wants to work on it then I would suggest couple's therapy to clear up any issues that are preventing a successful relationship.

[nb482]

I dunno, we hung out Monday and she hasn't pulled away yet. We've been having great conversations all week so far and plan to get together this weekend too. I know fully well what I'm entering into here. I'm not naive. I've had long-term relationships...one 6yr and another 3 yr and I've dated hundreds of women besides. This one has sucked me in and I feel she's worth some effort. Risky? Of course! But, love isn't all logic and reason. You have to follow your heart too. It might lead you true or into heartbreak, but either way, you'll grow. I feel this girl is worth a bit of effort. We ALL have baggage. Just because someone has a bit of baggage doesn't mean we should ditch them from the start, especially if we click so well. I have a bit, myself. So don't you all or else we wouldn't be on a damn dating forum!

 

I'm asking for advice on how to best approach this, with the assumption that I want it to work. I am fully prepared if it doesn't work. It would suck, but I've been through breakups before...whatever. I would live and move on. I want to work on this with her and I'm starting to feel that she feels the same.

 

Also, I'm not sure how you can't read too much into a fathers suicide at age 12. Go through all the therapy you want and that **** stays with you. It colors all your relationships, romantic or otherwise. She needs to feel trust. I'm a trustworthy guy with the best of intentions and just need a chance to show that. I feel that she wants to give me that chance.

Edited October 15, 2015 by nb482

[TheBathWater]

I recently posted a thread about a current situation and this is an update. I feel I understand the situation better.

 

I've been dating a girl since June and things have gone amazingly. We click very well and it feels great. She broke up with me a few weeks ago out of the blue stating everything was great, but she felt no attraction. I knew this was nonsense because I definitely felt things were mutual. Something felt off with how she was breaking it up.

 

She has kept in touch, though, and it feels more like she's pulled away a bit than broken up with me. She asked me to hang a week after the breakup and it went great...like nothing had happened...kissing, hugging, etc. Next day...she says she can't do it and needs to move on. I respond with disappointment, but tried to accept it. Next day she asks if we can still talk about Lord of the Rings, which we had been reading together (outloud, often). I said, sure...if we can go on that hike we had planned soon. She said sure.

 

She asked me to do the hike this past Monday and again it went amazingly. She said in her text she didn't want to send mixed signals. We started off slow, but halfway up the mountain we were getting close again...she initiated some of it. At the summit, she said she might just need some time. She acknowledged how she missed me and that she had strong feelings for me. I felt more connected with her this night than I had in awhile..I could see it in her eyes. I spent the night too. We've been in touch since then and things seem to be going ok. But, I can't help it if I'm anticipating another pull-away.

 

Here's the thing. She lost her father to suicide when she was 12...he was depressed and shot himself. That's abandonment, capital A. Her last relationship was with a guy she really liked and after a bit over a year, he bailed suddenly and just said "it's me, not you"...no closure. An obvious trigger. Her anger toward him is still present. She broke up with me right around the one year anniversary of that breakup. We were starting to get pretty close.

 

There was nothing wrong with our relationship...it was solid and the connection is obviously still growing between us. Lately it feels as if we really enjoy each others company and we grow closer each time we hang out, but when apart often she talks herself out of it. I think things were made worse with her birth control, which was messing with her emotionally a bit. She stopped it 2 weeks back. This feels like abandonment issues and I'm not sure how to approach it. I don't want to mess it up because I really like her.

 

I feel like the only thing I can do is be myself...be there, be loving, be consistent, and not pressure her too much. Give it a bit of time. Build trust.

 

Has anybody dealt with this before with a SO, or maybe yourself? Can you help me understand my predicament? Have any advice?

 

Thanks!

 

Pull up a chair, son. I am going to give this to you straight:

 

She is pushing you away because you won't leave her. She needs to feel loss in order to feel connection, paradoxically. This is how she has come to identify herself within relationships to important figures in her life. If you don't push her away, she will do it for you. This is unconscious and irrational, but it conforms with her earlier experiences.

 

You cannot "save" her. No amount of trust building, patience, support, etc... is going to bring her father back. She is a big girl, and she will have to work this out on her own when she is ready. Judging by her behavior toward you, that time is nowhere near. I am not suggesting that you DO abandon her (though ironically, I do believe she would become more attracted to you). I am suggesting, however, that you take a step back and check-chiggity-check yo-self before you wreck yo-self. In other words, you're going to get burned, buddy. Careful with this one.

[nb482]

Pull up a chair, son. I am going to give this to you straight:

 

 

I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but you take a fairly firm stance with not a whole lot of data. I want this to work, as I said. But, I'm no fool. I'm not going to let it go on for an indefinite amount of time...there's a time limit to this and I want to know the best way to go about things in the time that I'm giving to it. If things continue in the push/pull routine, I wont be in this relationship a month or so from now. But, I feel it's worth a shot and I feel she wants to genuinely give it an honest try as well. I value all of your opinions, but I want specific advice preferably from people who have dealt with similar issues. With all due respect, please spare me your attempts at pseudo-psychoanalysis based on a few paragraphs I've written. Pleeease.

Edited October 15, 2015 by nb482

[TunaCat]

The push/pull thing was something I was guilty of in the beginning stages of my relationship with my ex. I would push him away because I figured "Eh, hel'll leave me anyway." I was pushing him away to keep myself from hurting. Was that healthy? No of course not. Then I would pull him back towards me because I loved how he made me feel. I felt loved, comforted & safe with him.

 

My abandonment issues stem from my biological father abandoning me in favor of drugs and alcohol when I was a child. I push people away so I don't hurt and so I can control when someone leaves me.

 

I did therapy for this and it did help, but I'm not fully healed.

[bluefeather]

Hello nb482,

 

I believe I can relate, having been in relationships of the hot-cold and push-pull variety (emphasis on the word "variety" as there are so many different layers to them). Abandonment issues sounds like a possibility, though I wouldn't know for sure from the information given. But to go with that idea, sometimes people leave first in order to not have the inevitable (to them) experience of being left. So your question is how do you go about dealing with that. Well, I think if the answer was so simple to give, we wouldn't be having these kinds of discussions. Also, I don't feel like there is enough information given for me to make a very thoughtful decision. I will, however, say that you sound smart enough to be able to make a good one.

 

It's strange... even with my experience of being pushed away in relationships, as well as at times in the past, being the one who pushes, it's still hard to give clear advice. It might have to do with making a decision using one of two things that never seem to go together: love and logic. It is logical when pushed out of a relationship, to leave. But love might say to give it a second chance. In an other case, if the reason in her pushing you away can be somehow determined and fixed, it might be logical to continue trying. But love might tell you that there is someone out there who would never push you away, and have you choose to seek a better companion. Do you see the many ways this can be looked at? Because of this, my best advice would be for you to follow your heart. But if your heart leads you to continue trying to make things work with this woman, know and accept that she may push you away again. If you can be ok with this, if you are willing to fight for her, then who am I to tell you not to pursue? Yet again, on the flip-side, letting the person go and stopping all contact might be the only way for her to see if she truly wishes to be with you..! bah!

 

Once, I was struggling with this issue very much -loving someone who would push me away- and someone told me something that stuck with me:

 

"At our absolute best, we will be worthless to the wrong person. But at our absolute worst, we will be worth it to the right person."

 

So ask yourself: Is she worth it? That may help you find your path.

 

One more thing, though, in my take on this phrase that is beautiful to me - there is a fine line. If/when that line is crossed, there is a corrupted side, and that is called abuse. Find romance in the struggle, and even, if you will, in the pain, but do not allow yourself to cross that line that makes you become a victim of abuse.

[TheBathWater]

I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but you take a fairly firm stance with not a whole lot of data. I want this to work, as I said. But, I'm no fool. I'm not going to let it go on for an indefinite amount of time...there's a time limit to this and I want to know the best way to go about things in the time that I'm giving to it. If things continue in the push/pull routine, I wont be in this relationship a month or so from now. But, I feel it's worth a shot and I feel she wants to genuinely give it an honest try as well. I value all of your opinions, but I want specific advice preferably from people who have dealt with similar issues. With all due respect, please spare me your attempts at pseudo-psychoanalysis based on a few paragraphs I've written. Pleeease.

 

Fair enough.

 

Not only have I been in your situation before, I am a psychotherapist and I have seen hundreds of people go through something similar to what you are going through right now.

 

I'm sorry you feel I am being too 'firm' or tough on you, but that is my advice, and you posted on this forum asking for advice. You don't have to like it, obviously. In many ways, it sounds like you gave yourself your own advice/the answer your want to hear in the response I quoted above. In any case, maybe your situation just needs to play out longer. Sometimes, it's not until everything is in hindsight that we can see it for what it really is.

 

Good luck.

[nb482]

Fair enough.

 

I'm sorry you feel I am being too 'firm' or tough on you, but that is my advice, and you posted on this forum asking for advice.

 

Good luck.

 

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to hear hopeful advice....but, I'm smarter than that. I do realize that if I continue to pursue her, I'm playing it risky. Ironically, I'm also a psychologist...well, I will be in a few months after this headache of a dissertation ends. As a therapist I assume you also understand that although you've seen similar situations before...they're all a bit different? Sometimes they work...sometimes the two people break through and grow stronger together, no? I'm not deluding myself and fully understand that it may not work that way and she may pull away again. But, like I said, she's pretty awesome and I sense in her a growing willingness to try, so I want to allow myself to follow my heart. At least for a bit. I think this is worth at least a bit of effort before I consider leaving it.

 

I'm fine with hearing advice that conflicts with my desires. You did give some decent advice, but within that advice were pretty strong statements about my situation that I feel you just don't have enough data to responsibly make. I have tried to take a step back, though.

[nb482]

Hello nb482,

 

I believe I can relate, having been in relationships of the hot-cold and push-pull variety (emphasis on the word "variety" as there are so many different layers to them).

 

Thanks for this response. It's always a complicated situation, no? We're all human, afterall. And yes, I do think she's worth it...very much. I want to pursue, but also want to be cautious. This is tricky because if I'm too cautious...I wont be pursuing genuinely and she'll feel that. Bah!

 

I agree with your last statement. I wont put up with abuse....but, it's nowhere near that, thankfully.

[nb482]

The push/pull thing was something I was guilty of in the beginning stages of my relationship with my ex. I would push him away because I figured "Eh, hel'll leave me anyway." I was pushing him away to keep myself from hurting. Was that healthy? No of course not. Then I would pull him back towards me because I loved how he made me feel. I felt loved, comforted & safe with him.

 

My abandonment issues stem from my biological father abandoning me in favor of drugs and alcohol when I was a child. I push people away so I don't hurt and so I can control when someone leaves me.

 

I did therapy for this and it did help, but I'm not fully healed.

 

Thanks for this...I appreciate the openness. Would you have any advice to someone like me in this situation? Or someone that may be trying to pursue you, for example? Does anything help calm the push/pull response for you? Or is it mainly the self-awareness that you've gained through therapy? Obviously, everybody is different, but I would be thankful for any advice you could give...even if it's, "run for the hills".

[Miss Peach]

If I see push/pull behavior I run. This is either "just not into you" or emotional unavailability. Neither are good IMO.

 

I highly suggest reading stuff written by Natalie Lue. She has a lot of books and online articles on the subject. The online articles are free on her blog. It's what made me realize the dynamics and why I kept falling into different unavailable relationships for a time.

[TunaCat]

Thanks for this...I appreciate the openness. Would you have any advice to someone like me in this situation? Or someone that may be trying to pursue you, for example? Does anything help calm the push/pull response for you? Or is it mainly the self-awareness that you've gained through therapy? Obviously, everybody is different, but I would be thankful for any advice you could give...even if it's, "run for the hills".

 

I gained a lot of self awareness through therapy, and I have to say that if she knows she's doing it, but isn't trying to figure out why she's doing it, then yeah I'd run for the hills because you're always going to be wondering what's next. Will she push you away again? Will she pull you close again. If she doesn't understand why she is doing it, she'll just keep doing it.

[nb482]

If she doesn't understand why she is doing it, she'll just keep doing it.

 

I agree...and if she keeps doing it, I'm going to eventually lose steam and patience. I want to talk with her about it next time we're together...if it feels right. I just don't want to sound like a therapist when I do. I want to be a supportive boyfriend, not a shrink. I think this translates into just being as general as I can and asking questions and using zero psychobabble. I think she's somewhat aware of it, but not as much as she needs to be. She's always open-minded, though, and wants to work on herself.

[nb482]

A quick update:

 

She hasn't pulled away yet since last I posted, though she's still being cautious and a bit distant. We spent the weekend together...it was fun. We had sex for like 3 hours over 2 days :-) We talked a bit about her emotional distance. She thinks a lot of it has to do with being hurt in the past, which I assumed. Two failed marriages will do that to someone. But, she said she IS attracted to me and that she only said otherwise earlier because she was confused and needed space. She did say she doesn't fully understand it all, though. I didn't mention her fathers suicide possibly factoring into it to her...felt like that would be too much at once. She mentioned feeling frustrated because she wants to be with me and really likes me and enjoys time with me, but she doesn't fully understand why she keeps distance.

 

We watched a movie at her place on Sunday...her mother joined us. My GF stepped out for a minute and her mom engaged me on the issue, since my GF had asked her for advice with us. Her mom said she does think it has a lot to do with her relationship past and not wanting to get hurt. BUT, she also mentioned how my GF is confused because we get along so well and it feels like we're not only lovers, but best friends. Her mom said she's never had that before, but encouraged her because she views her own partner as a best friend and wouldn't have it any other way. Her mom told me she really cares about me even if she's distant and encouraged me to give it some time because she has a feeling she'll come around soon. So, I am.

 

It's just hard to be with someone who keeps one foot out the door because they're afraid of getting hurt. Relationships and love can never develop that way. I do feel we're continuing to get closer and closer each time we get together, though. So, that's good, I suppose.

 

Anyways, time will tell. I suppose the holidays will stir things up a bit. They always do...for better or for worse. I hope it's for better with this girl!

Edited October 21, 2015 by nb482

[kpl]

A quick update:

 

She hasn't pulled away yet since last I posted, though she's still being cautious and a bit distant. We spent the weekend together...it was fun. We had sex for like 3 hours over 2 days :-) We talked a bit about her emotional distance. She thinks a lot of it has to do with being hurt in the past, which I assumed. Two failed marriages will do that to someone. But, she said she IS attracted to me and that she only said otherwise earlier because she was confused and needed space. She did say she doesn't fully understand it all, though. I didn't mention her fathers suicide possibly factoring into it to her...felt like that would be too much at once. She mentioned feeling frustrated because she wants to be with me and really likes me and enjoys time with me, but she doesn't fully understand why she keeps distance.

 

We watched a movie at her place on Sunday...her mother joined us. My GF stepped out for a minute and her mom engaged me on the issue, since my GF had asked her for advice with us. Her mom said she does think it has a lot to do with her relationship past and not wanting to get hurt. BUT, she also mentioned how my GF is confused because we get along so well and it feels like we're not only lovers, but best friends. Her mom said she's never had that before, but encouraged her because she views her own partner as a best friend and wouldn't have it any other way. Her mom told me she really cares about me even if she's distant and encouraged me to give it some time because she has a feeling she'll come around soon. So, I am.

 

It's just hard to be with someone who keeps one foot out the door because they're afraid of getting hurt. Relationships and love can never develop that way. I do feel we're continuing to get closer and closer each time we get together, though. So, that's good, I suppose.

 

Anyways, time will tell. I suppose the holidays will stir things up a bit. They always do...for better or for worse. I hope it's for better with this girl!

 

you are also not her psychologist...I don't get all the effort here.