WonderKid Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I had actually to a glance at the MGTOW site some point and was really intrigued about what they had to say about marriage. I was wondering why when a guy #'d MGTOW the women would go nuts. But I was directed to two other sites: nowife and dontmarry .com The testimonials I read from the married/divorced men were downright abysmal. They sounded miserable. And they gave somd valid advive and points. I grew up without a father or any kind of figure, so everything on being a man I had to find out myself and wing it. But these sites are something to look at. I was always a firm believer in loving a person without getting married. After reading the sites though, I do believe that in many cases men have no business getting married. I mean I am not trying to detour any men here from getting married, it's ultimately your choice, but I can ask just take a trip to those sites and read the testimonials and articles. And say what your inputs are. Just wondering.
Grumpybutfun Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Why not think for yourself and actually live life not weighed down by other men's baggage? Those men are so jaded and whiny, they need to stay away from women in order to be happy....not even talking about marriage but contact here. Anger and bitterness are not conducive to love. Marriage is the best and easiest thing I've ever done. However, some can't fully share lives due to their own ego, selfishness or past experiences and that is ok. People should know their limits from their own intelligence and experiences, not others experiences. As for marriage, not a given. Not a necessity, but I sure as hell enjoy the nuances of it. My wife is amazing because I expect her to be amazing and am amazing for her. Boundaries and kindness go a long way. Think for yourself, always, Grumps Edited October 14, 2015 by Grumpybutfun 10
SammySammy Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) I'll pass on going to those sites. I've had the misfortune of watching a couple of their videos on YouTube. Those guys sound miserable because they are miserable. They seem to be a bunch guys who have given up. Perpetually negative, pessimistic, cynical, defeatist and, frankly, quite boring group of losers. It's no wonder they are miserable. I choose to live my life differently. I'm always hopeful that tomorrow will be a better day. If something does go wrong in my life, I then look at myself and see what I can improve rather than blaming others. Oftentimes, in order to live a positive and uplifting life, you have to eliminate negative thoughts and influences. Which means no MGTOW for me. Edited October 14, 2015 by MidKnightDreams 4
oldshirt Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 when men go their own way, no one really cares and no one misses them. 7
clia Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 A lot of those sites seem to work under the assumption that men have no choice in who they marry and are simply passive participants in the relationship. That victim mentality does no one any good. Seems like many of these miserable men simply made a poor choice in a spouse. They should've chosen better. 9
carhill Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 OP, it sounds like you're young and life can be a difficult place to exist, especially without a solid role model during socialization. If anything, I'd suggest looking to your real life males around you and see how that goes. The internet is, well, the internet. Talk with older male friends, uncles, older male siblings, etc, etc. and get their input. Sure, for some of us, marriage isn't our path. That isn't particular to gender. Some folks simply don't fit the parameters for healthy marriage, which doesn't mean they can't live healthy and productive lives otherwise. Most of us try it at one point or another. In my social circle, I can only think of one guy who hasn't. The vast majority of guys are married, most for decades. There are far more women who've been married and are now happily 'going their own way'. I think that was the key part I noticed during post-D recovery; they were happy. Years later, giving that path a try for awhile, I see where they're coming from. It works and is as valid a life path as being married or LTR. 3
dragon_fly_7 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 What is MGTOW?Men going their own way. That's a term I had to learn this year. I didn't know what it meant. 3
stillafool Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Does this mean they no longer want a woman or they don't plan to marry?
MightyPen Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I just checked out the site. They remind me of the NoMa'am guys from Married with Children. Of course, if I had been married to Peg, I'd probably join NoMa'am too. I do think there are many terribly manipulative women out there, but that's not an indictment of the whole gender. There are many violent, boorish men out there too. That doesn't mean all guys are like that. 3
candie13 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 self fulfilling prophecy. you're like those lefties only reading lefties newspapers and lefties TV channels and then end up even more convinced that left is the way to go. Wanna grow and actually try to find your point of view in the middle of this? how about checking the opposite spectrum and reading some articles and sites about men in complete and utter marital bliss, being happy in marriages and RS with their children and grand children by their side. read nomarry.com and you'll end up with nomarry.com. Happy no marriage, what a lovely nowife you've chosen ! 3
Robert Z Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) MGTOW probably goes far beyond my own views but I understand the motivation, and a lot of it is driven by the fallout from the women's lib movement and the way men have been treated for the last 40 years. That has run its course and now you have a bunch of angry and unhappy men in its wake. The player movement is another result. Men don't want to get married because they have seen the result. It can be a virtual death sentence. Men my age have been committing suicide at the highest rate in US history. I was almost one of them. When I started to look around and saw how miserable other men are, it became obvious what has been happening. I often refer to the walking dead because that is what it's like. We were led to lives of misery by the lies we were fed. Funny how everyone is up in arms over gun deaths. But when it came to light that 2/3 of these deaths are due to suicide, and mostly men, the outrage turns to vapor. Edited October 14, 2015 by Robert Z 3
MightyPen Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 MGTOW probably goes far beyond my own views but I understand the motivation, and a lot of it is driven by the fallout from the women's lib movement and the way men have been treated for the last 40 years. That has run its course and now you have a bunch of angry and unhappy men in its wake. The player movement is another result. Men don't want to get married because they have seen the result. It can be a virtual death sentence. Men my age have been committing suicide at the highest rate in US history. I was almost one of them. When I started to look around and saw how miserable other men are, it became obvious what has been happening. I often refer to the walking dead because that is what it's like. We were led to lives of misery by the lies we were fed. Funny how everyone is up in arms over gun deaths. But when it came to light that 2/3 of these deaths are due to suicide, and mostly men, the outrage turns to vapor. Do you think men would be happier without women? I'm guessing your answer is "yes" but I don't want to assume. I think most men (regardless of how happy they are/aren't) have fantasies of cool bachelor pads not filled with crappy little candles and ugly paintings and a hallway closet with 1,000 different creams, lotions, and handsoaps. I think many men have fantasies of an after-work schedule that looks like this: 6PM basketball with buddies in the park 7PM dinner and beers with said buddies 9PM video games!! 10PM work on a cool idea or invention, or work on your Great American Novel 11PM masterbate to whatever you prefer 11:05PM hit the sack! It will be another great day tomorrow! 2
BlueIris Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I’m not opposed to MGTOW philosophy. I don’t care if a man doesn’t want wife, children, family life, shared income, expenses and investment. If he wants to hate, blame or whine to justify it, that’s fine too. I'm not going to sit around and listen to it, but I don't listen to women hate, blame or whine either. To be responsible MGTOWers and walk the walk, they should get snipped so they don’t get anyone pregnant. The only objection I'd have would be if they aren't honest with the women they want to have sex with or build a relationship with. Be honest. Women who want a committed relationship, children and family need to be realistic though. They need to vet dates and potential relationship partners very carefully before getting starry eyed or- god forbid- living with someone or buying real estate with them. 8
Got it Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 MGTOW probably goes far beyond my own views but I understand the motivation, and a lot of it is driven by the fallout from the women's lib movement and the way men have been treated for the last 40 years. That has run its course and now you have a bunch of angry and unhappy men in its wake. The player movement is another result. Men don't want to get married because they have seen the result. It can be a virtual death sentence. Men my age have been committing suicide at the highest rate in US history. I was almost one of them. When I started to look around and saw how miserable other men are, it became obvious what has been happening. I often refer to the walking dead because that is what it's like. We were led to lives of misery by the lies we were fed. Funny how everyone is up in arms over gun deaths. But when it came to light that 2/3 of these deaths are due to suicide, and mostly men, the outrage turns to vapor. We had a bunch of angry and unhappy men prior to the last 40 years. Just then they got to beat their wives and kids and/or leave them in the dust with no financial recourse. Good times. And what evidence is there no interest in male suicide rates and gun violence. I am a part of numerous gun control groups and suicide is a major focal point. So not sure where you are getting your information. 2
carhill Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Since domestic violence is alive and well, such men aren't going their own way, rather seeking to bend the will of others to their way through violence and intimidation. Men who choose to opt out seek no such illegal and immoral path, rather a different, personal path outside of romantic and, particularly, marital relations. Their choices hurt no one and, to the extent their personal happiness increases, that brings a more positive tone to their daily social interactions and adds value to the world. 3
candie13 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 for sure, if unhappy, both men and women should walk away. 4
Woggle Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I don't agree with them but the pain and experiences that drive them to have those views are very real. 3
Author WonderKid Posted October 16, 2015 Author Posted October 16, 2015 That's the thing also. It's not like I just thought it all up, I've actually grown up around these types of relationships. I mean, the guys do sound miserable and yeah they whine but you gotta see what they lost. Some lost all of what they worked for, after a divorce. I have no idea what that feels like but I imagine it's pretty effed up. I mean what were the men supposed to sound like? Optimistic? Happy? Some will recover and many will not. I support them in some way. Because men are supposed to be men, and suck it up. We aren't allowed to have feelings or any emotional fray. So I guess we are cyborgs. I just found the site. I don't think it's that bad. It seems like not many folks here like the site or the movement.
candie13 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Shakespeare said that wallowing over a past misfortune is the surest way of attracting a new one ! OP, apologies to be this blunt, but before throwing yourself all over these sites, get married first and then talk ! 4
Author WonderKid Posted October 16, 2015 Author Posted October 16, 2015 Why not think for yourself and actually live life not weighed down by other men's baggage? Those men are so jaded and whiny, they need to stay away from women in order to be happy....not even talking about marriage but contact here. Anger and bitterness are not conducive to love. Marriage is the best and easiest thing I've ever done. However, some can't fully share lives due to their own ego, selfishness or past experiences and that is ok. People should know their limits from their own intelligence and experiences, not others experiences. As for marriage, not a given. Not a necessity, but I sure as hell enjoy the nuances of it. My wife is amazing because I expect her to be amazing and am amazing for her. Boundaries and kindness go a long way. Think for yourself, always, Grumps Some think for themselves more than others. But if you did all the time where would the opportunity be to learn? LS wouldn't even be big as it is if people always thought for themselves. You can gain intelligence by personal experiences but by seeing other's experiences as well. It's part of getting wise. Nothing wrong with it. Though I do not agree with them staying away from women altogether. That is unnecessary. But taking a hiatus wouldn't be bad. Marriage is easy for you, but as statistics show in America, it was not easy for everyone. You are very fortunate, and I hope you both stay that way.
Author WonderKid Posted October 16, 2015 Author Posted October 16, 2015 Shakespeare said that wallowing over a past misfortune is the surest way of attracting a new one ! OP, apologies to be this blunt, but before throwing yourself all over these sites, get married first and then talk ! I'll think about it. But I assure you it is a 5% chance lol
candie13 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I know, discussing statistics about how horribly marriages f*ck men up is a lot easier compared to asking women out on dates ! 6
Author WonderKid Posted October 16, 2015 Author Posted October 16, 2015 OP, it sounds like you're young and life can be a difficult place to exist, especially without a solid role model during socialization. If anything, I'd suggest looking to your real life males around you and see how that goes. The internet is, well, the internet. Talk with older male friends, uncles, older male siblings, etc, etc. and get their input. Sure, for some of us, marriage isn't our path. That isn't particular to gender. Some folks simply don't fit the parameters for healthy marriage, which doesn't mean they can't live healthy and productive lives otherwise. Most of us try it at one point or another. In my social circle, I can only think of one guy who hasn't. The vast majority of guys are married, most for decades. There are far more women who've been married and are now happily 'going their own way'. I think that was the key part I noticed during post-D recovery; they were happy. Years later, giving that path a try for awhile, I see where they're coming from. It works and is as valid a life path as being married or LTR. I have looked around at real live males and guess what they are? Womanizers, abusers, and deceivers. The amount of positive males in my circle is very rare. Seeing how and where I've grown up. I've made few acquaintances who are happily married though. But me growing up I just did not see that a lot. Not saying I can never get married, because well, you never know.
Author WonderKid Posted October 16, 2015 Author Posted October 16, 2015 I know, discussing statistics about how horribly marriages f*ck men up is a lot easier compared to asking women out on dates ! Well, yeah you're right. You've seen the dating section I suppose. I just thought I'd change it up for a change.
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