How do you let go of family who hurt you and everyone else around them?

[in_absentia]

Hi all,

 

I'm not sure why I'm writing this, other than wondering if there are any others out there who've been through something and lived to tell the tale. I feel very upset and isolated from my family right now, can't see how things can ever be the same again. I know it's long so don't expect many replies. Hopefully it'll be cathartic to write.

 

My brother and I were never too close (he's seven years older than me) but we got close after we lost our Mom to alcoholism almost five years ago. He'd just had a little boy, my eldest nephew, who I absolutely doted on whenever I was able to. I love that kid, and his little brother who came along a couple years later, more than anyone else in the world. They are/were my world, those kids. I never knew love until my nephew was born!

 

About two years after we lost our Mom, he froze me out of his life, I never knew why, and still don't to this day. He's not a particularly nice person, has been in prison for violence and had many convictions for assault, public affray, hooliganism and so forth. But despite all of that, I love him to pieces, even moreso once our Mom died. He really seemed to be calming down a little from his past, settling into being a Dad and had a great relationship with their Mom. There were incidents here and there (he got assaulted badly and had a bleed on the brain at one point, another time he was in court for assaulting a bouncer but just escaped prison on a technicality, a few days before my youngest nephew was born).

 

Two years after he froze me out I suddenly got an invite to their wedding. I ripped it up, it had taken me that whole time to try and get over emotionally losing him to unknown reasons, and to let go of the constant hurt I felt at being not allowed to see my nephews. However, my Dad (his Stepdad) was unwell at the time and really wanted my brother and I to be friends again as we don't really have any other family anymore. So I accepted the invite, we organised a meal for my Dad's birthday and all attended and it was great to see my brother again. I went to the wedding in the December and for six months was able to be part of the family again. My brother isn't a talker and I never found out why he froze me out but I didn't care as long as we could put it behind us. For six months I drove 100 miles most weekends just to spend an hour with my little nephews. I was/am besotted with them both. My brother also has a baby girl on the way, my first niece. I started to really build up a bond with my nephews again, aged 3 and 5, nothing felt more heavenly to me than being able to simply take them to the park. I love them with all my heart. At the wedding his new wife told me that ever since my brother and I got back in touch with each other he's like a different person, so much less moody and angry.

 

In June this year, my brother's now wife messaged me asking if I knew if there'd been any history of violence in his life prior to me being born, I told her that I was aware my brother's bio Dad had been violent towards our Mom. Suddenly she started texting me all of this stuff about how he's become increasingly violent towards her, and it'd been going on for a year but now she was really frightened. He'd been pushing her over with my nephew in her arms and throwing pints over them, pushing her across the room, when she talked about leaving he'd throw her physically out the house, lock the door or confiscate her phone, while heavily pregnant. Really disturbing stuff. She told me that the eldest nephew sometimes tries to pull my brother off her and shouts at him to please stop hurting her. It made me realise that one time my nephew did try to tell me something was wrong, on the way home he told me it scares him when Daddy shouts. I tried to expand but he clammed right up and wouldn't say anymore.

 

So basically he's been physically and mentally abusing her, and I gave her all of the advice I could possibly give, details for womens shelters, told her I'd support her however I could, said she could come stay with us temporarily, or if she needed money whatever, I'm there for her. But that she needed to act because it's going to damage those poor kids so badly (it already is) and she needs to get out because I know my brother and I know it won't end. He's a dangerous man. She said that she would speak to him that night about leaving and text me that evening how it went. I asked if she wanted to set up a safety plan where if she didn't contact me I would call the police but she said she'd be fine and she'd be in touch.

 

Anyway, she didn't get in touch all night, all morning, I was terrified. I couldn't just go round I live 50 miles away. The next morning I messaged her, aware that he may have taken her phone, no response. So I called our city's child protection service and told them everything. It was either that or call the police for a welfare check. I told them what she'd told me, how scared I was and details of my nephews etc. She contacted me two hours later, I told her straight away what I'd done and she went nuclear on me. Rang the child protection people and told them I'd made a malicious referral (ironic thing is I'm in the profession myself, which is why I knew how to respond to her, what to advise, which services to talk to her about and also about the law in regard to child abuse, it's illegal in this country to allow a child to witness or hear domestic abuse, it's classed as child abuse). I also had a duty of care! They instigated a child protection plan which meant going round to the house to speak to the family, and monitoring the kids at school. So at least the school and staff would have been aware and could keep an eye on the boys.

 

She texted me all this awful awful stuff, saying I was a terrible person, that my eldest nephew loves his Dad and I'm ripping the family apart, I'm scum, I betrayed their family, I'll never see the boys again, she'll never forgive me. Not making any sense... she told me I couldn't tell him I knew, and then told me I should have spoken to him about it not the authorities. Told me that her entire family hate me for putting her through this while pregnant. Her and my brother even rang my Father, who was on holiday, to tell him I'd made the whole thing up and tried to rip their family apart. As you can imagine, this hurt me a lot. I understood why she did it, she freaked out, self preservation, probably had to show my brother she wasn't trying to escape, maybe she just needed a scapegoat. But I can't see why out of all of the people in her whole life, she chose me, his sister and a social worker, to tell me all this information, and then hook me into telling me she'd contact and then going awol for a day so I had no choice. I think she wanted me to act and then freaked. I showed my Dad the messages when he got home and he thankfully agreed with me and what I did. Funnily enough everyone in my life agreed with what I did and said they'd have had no choice but to do the same. I have to add that despite everything she kept saying to me and all of the abuse, I kept showing her love and understanding and telling her that I could take her being angry at me, it didn't stop me loving them or her or wanting the best or being there for her if she needed me. It was really tough to take it and not retaliate.

 

Since then, three months later, I'd had to block both of them on every means possible, I haven't seen the nephews. I'd gone from being so in love with them and having them in my life again to not being able to have anything to do with them. I think about them every day, it feels like a bereavement. It's so complicated because I hate my brother for what he's done SO bad. But I love him fiercely too. Part of me just feels really sad that I've lost my Mom, brother, and my nephews. It's painful to swallow. I really don't know how to move on from this.

 

I'm not an idiot... there's no chance of reconciliation. I don't think I could look him in the eye again knowing what he's done, and what he's doing to her. I know if I saw her she'd probably try and attack me. I am scared of even seeing her family because if they say anything to me, i would find it extremely difficult holding back to protect her by saying nothing. Luckily I live 50 miles away now but I feel nervous being back in my hometown. More than anything it hurts to lose the only other person who knew what it was like to have our Mom and feels like such a sad end to the story. And I worry about the boys every day, and the baby girl, not knowing what they're going through. The thought of not being able to watch them grow up makes me feel physically sick. I honestly grieve for those kids. And for the baby niece I'll never meet. The only person facilitating me seeing the kids was my sister in law and now she hates me too.

 

I'm not sure how to move on. Sometimes I feel okay, other times I feel terrible. The past couple nights I've had nightmares about the nephews getting hurt and not being able to help them and woke up crying. I'm actually starting counselling this week coming, it was hard to ask for that because I do a similar thing in my own job and it's tough because you feel like you should be able to fix yourself.

 

I hate what he's done so much. I know I need to stay away from him for my own good, but it's hard. The pain swallows me up sometimes. I thought I was part of this family and now I've been shut out for doing the only thing I could have done, for the benefit of those innocent defenseless kids.

 

Based on what his wife said at the wedding about how he was a changed person since we got back in touch, it makes me think maybe some part of him deep down does care about me, but then I look at the evidence and see that he's lied about me to my family, and to his in laws, probably lied to my nephews about me, he never tried to contact me or make it right, or explain or try get help, he just serves himself selfishly. I fear he'll end up killing her. I fear even more that he'll start abusing the kids as another way to get at her. How do you get over the fact that you love someone in your family so much, but they only hurt you? How do you cut out a sibling who is such an awful person, when they have these kids who are your world? Grieving for someone who's alive is so damn difficult.

[UpwardForward]

You did the right thing in reporting the abuse to the authorities. And also offering her money and advising her of women's shelters.

 

Keep her messages to you as proof, when she discounts your statement, or tries to malign you.

 

I'm thinking at this time, all you can do is pray for your niece, nephews.

[in_absentia]

Thank you. Looking back I don't feel I could have handled it better. I know I did the right thing to protect them, but it hurts so much that by doing so, I essentially lost them for good. I wouldn't change it though. I'm hoping my brother may be less abusive if he has the authorities watching, I think social workers spoke to the eldest at school too so I'm hoping even though he's five he's aware that he's not alone in this anymore. I was heartbroken when I found out and looked back at the tiny little things he'd slipped me here and there about what was going on that I hadn't pieced together. To know he trusted me enough to say even those small things and was so brave makes me love him so hard it physically aches.

 

I have the messages, I actually sent them via secure e-mail to the authorities once she tried to claim it wasn't true, so they had enough evidence to start watching the family. I was glad my Father could at least see them for himself, I knew he'd believe me anyway but I wanted him to know for himself what was said so he could see I had no way of interpreting it other than how I did.

 

I'm hoping counselling will help. I actually tried counselling last time he froze me out but scheduling issues mean I couldn't continue. I hope it helps just to get it all out. I really need to move past this and live my life. But it's hard. I swing between missing my brother most and then missing the kids most. I think I could have handled losing one. But all, is a lot. Especially when ten months ago I was speaking at their wedding.

[Downtown]

He's not a particularly nice person, has been in prison for violence and had many convictions for assault.

Absentia, as a social worker, you must already know that you are describing the warning signs for ASPD (Antisocial Personality Disorder), aka "sociopathy." Yet, if your brother really did have full-blown ASPD, he would be incapable of loving his W or kids -- a situation you don't seem to be describing. On the contrary, you say "He really seemed to be... settling into being a Dad and had a great relationship with their Mom." If he really does love them, he cannot have full-blown ASPD. But he still could have moderate to strong traits of it.

 

He's a dangerous man.

If your descriptions are accurate, I would agree. Granted, most men having strong ASPD traits -- even those who are full-blown sociopaths -- do NOT kill or maim other people. The reason is that the vast majority of sociopaths are emotionally stable enough to control their behavior so as to avoid going to prison.

 

What is so concerning about your description, then, is that you seem to be describing ASPD red flags together with emotional instability -- the key hallmark of BPD (Borderline PD). Indeed, several of the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, verbal abuse, physical abuse, black-white thinking, and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (hating you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD.

 

Importantly, the vast majority of people having one PD also suffer from another one as well. This means that, if your brother really does have strong ASPD traits, it does not rule out his also having strong BPD traits. On the contrary, a recent study found that about 20% of sociopaths have co-occurring full-blown BPD and vice versa (i.e., about 20% of BPDers have full-blown ASPD).

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your brother exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and easily triggered temper tantrums.

 

He's become increasingly violent towards her.... He's been physically and mentally abusing her.

Absentia, the repeated physical battering of a partner or spouse by a male adult is strongly associated with that adult having strong traits of a personality disorder, particularly BPD. Intense, inappropriate anger is one of the nine defining traits for BPD.

 

If your brother is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

 

For these reasons, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

He was a changed person since we got back in touch.

If he is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), the problem is not that his attitude toward you won't change but, rather, that it won't STOP CHANGING. This is the way emotionally unstable people behave. Being unable to regulate their emotions, they frequently experience feelings that are so intense that they distort the BPDer's perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion." This is one reason that a BPDer can flip, in just ten seconds, from loving you to hating you.

 

About two years after we lost our Mom, he froze me out of his life, I never knew why, and still don't to this day.

If your brother is a BPDer, this "freezing out" likely occurred because he is too emotionally immature to have ever integrated the good and bad aspects of his own personality -- i.e., to be comfortable with the realization that he has both good and bad aspects in his personality.

 

A BPDer, then, never got to the point in childhood where he realized that he is "essentially a good boy who occasionally does bad things." Instead, he continued to think of himself in black and white terms of being all good or all bad (which is why a BPDer typically is loath to admit making a mistake or having a flaw).

 

The result is that a BPDer tends to categorize everyone as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black) -- and, based on a minor infraction or minor comment, he will recategorize a sibling or close friend from one polar extreme to the other, and he will do so in less than a minute. This is why BPDers typically have no close long-term relationships unless the person lives a long distance away.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, would laugh at her sister's old joke six times in a row. Then, one day, her sister would tell the very same joke and my exW would be so offended that she wouldn't speak to her sister for six or nine months. Then, for no apparent reason, the two of them would be thick as thieves for a year until one of them -- I never knew who it would be next -- would take offense over something trivial and freeze her sister out of her life for a long time.

 

It makes me think maybe some part of him deep down does care about me.

If he were to have very strong ASPD traits, he would be incapable of actually caring for you. If he has strong BPD traits, however, he very likely does love you at some level. But it sometimes will be hard to tell because a BPDer does the black-white splitting I mentioned above. Because he is too immature to handle dealing with strong conflicting feelings, his subconscious will protect his fragile ego by placing the conflicting feeling (e.g., love or hate) completely out of reach of his conscious mind.

 

If this splitting seems strange to you, keep in mind that young children do it all the time. The child absolutely adores Mommy when she brings out the toys but, in an instant, the child flips to hating Mommy when she takes one toy away. Well, BPDers do this splitting very frequently because they generally have the emotional development of a four year old.

 

My brother's now wife messaged me asking if I knew if there'd been any history of violence in his life prior to me being born, I told her that I was aware my brother's bio Dad had been violent towards our Mom.

The current view of the psychiatric community is that BPD is caused partly by genetics (e.g., the violent bio dad) and partly by abuse or trauma in early childhood. Because these factors occur when the child is trying to develop a cohesive sense of self -- at ages 3 to 4 -- the disorder is believed to be created before age 5. It therefore leaves the person stuck with the emotional development of a four year old unless he later spends many years in therapy to learn how to acquire the mature emotional skills that were never learned.

 

Significantly, most abused children do NOT develop BPD, presumably because they did not inherit a predisposition to developing a PD or because the abuse was not sufficiently strong. Such abuse, however, GREATLY raises the child's risk of developing it, particularly if one parent passed on the genetic predisposition to that child. A recent survey of American BPDers found that 70% of them report having been abused or abandoned in childhood.

 

My brother isn't a talker and I never found out why he froze me.

The vast majority of BPDers are "talkers" and thus act out strongly with lots of verbal abuse when their fears are triggered. A small share of them, however, generally don't do that (although they sometimes will). Instead, they use icy silence, passive-aggressive behavior, and withdrawal to punish the loved one who they are angry at. If you are interested, I would be glad to give you cites for two articles about them. They are commonly called "quiet borderlines" or "waif BPDers."

 

I'm wondering if there are any others out there who've been through something and lived to tell the tale.

Yes, if you are dealing with a BPDer, there are many of us here on LoveShack who have dealt with that issue for years. I would encourage you, when you start counseling this week, that you ask the therapist whether you are seeing strong warning signs for BPD. It is important to obtain a professional opinion on what you are dealing with with respect to your brother.

 

I also suggest that, while you're waiting for your therapy session to occur, you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of these warning signs at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your brother's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful experience. Take care, Absentia.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Downtown

[UpwardForward]

It would have been far worse had you not spoken out, and to try to keep the family safer.

 

Consider yourself a living sacrifice and especially for those children. It is all you could do since she cannot/will not leave him at this time.

 

Aside from your insecure or turbulent relationship with him, he is obviously a very disturbed person to be abusing his wife.

 

Continue to pray for them. That is all one can do from afar.

[in_absentia]

Absentia, as a social worker, you must already know that you are describing the warning signs for ASPD (Antisocial Personality Disorder), aka "sociopathy." Yet, if your brother really did have full-blown ASPD, he would be incapable of loving his W or kids -- a situation you don't seem to be describing. On the contrary, you say "He really seemed to be... settling into being a Dad and had a great relationship with their Mom." If he really does love them, he cannot have full-blown ASPD. But he still could have moderate to strong traits of it.

 

If your descriptions are accurate, I would agree. Granted, most men having strong ASPD traits -- even those who are full-blown sociopaths -- do NOT kill or maim other people. The reason is that the vast majority of sociopaths are emotionally stable enough to control their behavior so as to avoid going to prison.

 

What is so concerning about your description, then, is that you seem to be describing ASPD red flags together with emotional instability -- the key hallmark of BPD (Borderline PD). Indeed, several of the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, verbal abuse, physical abuse, black-white thinking, and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (hating you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD.

 

Importantly, the vast majority of people having one PD also suffer from another one as well. This means that, if your brother really does have strong ASPD traits, it does not rule out his also having strong BPD traits. On the contrary, a recent study found that about 20% of sociopaths have co-occurring full-blown BPD and vice versa (i.e., about 20% of BPDers have full-blown ASPD).

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your brother exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and easily triggered temper tantrums.

 

Absentia, the repeated physical battering of a partner or spouse by a male adult is strongly associated with that adult having strong traits of a personality disorder, particularly BPD. Intense, inappropriate anger is one of the nine defining traits for BPD.

 

If your brother is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

 

For these reasons, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

If he is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), the problem is not that his attitude toward you won't change but, rather, that it won't STOP CHANGING. This is the way emotionally unstable people behave. Being unable to regulate their emotions, they frequently experience feelings that are so intense that they distort the BPDer's perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion." This is one reason that a BPDer can flip, in just ten seconds, from loving you to hating you.

 

If your brother is a BPDer, this "freezing out" likely occurred because he is too emotionally immature to have ever integrated the good and bad aspects of his own personality -- i.e., to be comfortable with the realization that he has both good and bad aspects in his personality.

 

A BPDer, then, never got to the point in childhood where he realized that he is "essentially a good boy who occasionally does bad things." Instead, he continued to think of himself in black and white terms of being all good or all bad (which is why a BPDer typically is loath to admit making a mistake or having a flaw).

 

The result is that a BPDer tends to categorize everyone as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black) -- and, based on a minor infraction or minor comment, he will recategorize a sibling or close friend from one polar extreme to the other, and he will do so in less than a minute. This is why BPDers typically have no close long-term relationships unless the person lives a long distance away.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, would laugh at her sister's old joke six times in a row. Then, one day, her sister would tell the very same joke and my exW would be so offended that she wouldn't speak to her sister for six or nine months. Then, for no apparent reason, the two of them would be thick as thieves for a year until one of them -- I never knew who it would be next -- would take offense over something trivial and freeze her sister out of her life for a long time.

 

If he were to have very strong ASPD traits, he would be incapable of actually caring for you. If he has strong BPD traits, however, he very likely does love you at some level. But it sometimes will be hard to tell because a BPDer does the black-white splitting I mentioned above. Because he is too immature to handle dealing with strong conflicting feelings, his subconscious will protect his fragile ego by placing the conflicting feeling (e.g., love or hate) completely out of reach of his conscious mind.

 

If this splitting seems strange to you, keep in mind that young children do it all the time. The child absolutely adores Mommy when she brings out the toys but, in an instant, the child flips to hating Mommy when she takes one toy away. Well, BPDers do this splitting very frequently because they generally have the emotional development of a four year old.

 

The current view of the psychiatric community is that BPD is caused partly by genetics (e.g., the violent bio dad) and partly by abuse or trauma in early childhood. Because these factors occur when the child is trying to develop a cohesive sense of self -- at ages 3 to 4 -- the disorder is believed to be created before age 5. It therefore leaves the person stuck with the emotional development of a four year old unless he later spends many years in therapy to learn how to acquire the mature emotional skills that were never learned.

 

Significantly, most abused children do NOT develop BPD, presumably because they did not inherit a predisposition to developing a PD or because the abuse was not sufficiently strong. Such abuse, however, GREATLY raises the child's risk of developing it, particularly if one parent passed on the genetic predisposition to that child. A recent survey of American BPDers found that 70% of them report having been abused or abandoned in childhood.

 

The vast majority of BPDers are "talkers" and thus act out strongly with lots of verbal abuse when their fears are triggered. A small share of them, however, generally don't do that (although they sometimes will). Instead, they use icy silence, passive-aggressive behavior, and withdrawal to punish the loved one who they are angry at. If you are interested, I would be glad to give you cites for two articles about them. They are commonly called "quiet borderlines" or "waif BPDers."

 

Yes, if you are dealing with a BPDer, there are many of us here on LoveShack who have dealt with that issue for years. I would encourage you, when you start counseling this week, that you ask the therapist whether you are seeing strong warning signs for BPD. It is important to obtain a professional opinion on what you are dealing with with respect to your brother.

 

I also suggest that, while you're waiting for your therapy session to occur, you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of these warning signs at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your brother's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful experience. Take care, Absentia.

 

Thanks Downtown. I am humbled by how much time you've taken to look at what I wrote and respond in so much detail. Thank you very much.

 

I have known for many years that my brother has traits of sociopathy, absolutely. Not all of them, it's strange as he doesn't seem to be particularly superficially charming. As I say, he's not much of a talker. I think my Mother's death really screwed him up even further. At the time I dealt with it so much better on the surface than he did, it was generally me comforting him around her bedside and when we got bad news from the doctors rather than the other way around. Only thing is, I went through my grief talking about it to friends, seeking support, I had some bereavement counselling and feel like I dealt with it the best I could and now, although I miss her, I'm okay with what happened. I feel I've moved on. But he refused to ever really discuss it, if she came up in conversation he'd be really uncomfortable, I notice that although he visits the grave he never had any photos of her up anywhere, he just seemed to bottle it all up. Even the vicar who he got close to who led his wedding said the same to me when we were talking about the speech I was asked to give in honour of her memory, that he bottles so much up it explodes in the worst possible way, he was talking about the violence amongst his peers however, he doesn't know about the domestic violence.

 

Regarding other traits, he is a liar, he reminds me of a little kid in that he'll lie about literally anything as long as the situation turns out to his benefit. He does something wrong, then almost seems to convince himself it never happened. He is manipulative I feel with me especially, as I say he isn't a talker, so most of the things he's done wrong to me seem to be in terms of just freezing me out, he goes no contact on me, and it's me that's left upset, talking to friends about it, sobbing and confused as to what's going on, eventually months down the line after him not texting me back or taking my calls or even once I went round after work with a pizza he wouldn't open the door... I eventually exploded via text and told him he's dead to me, so much drama, but I was so hurt. And this whole time he's barely said a word. I feel like he gets me hysterical with the way he treats me and then basically says to others that I'm melodramatic and immature. One of the most hurtful times, was that he approached my Father at work (they worked together... until he left because he kept causing problems within the staff, he threatened to assault a colleague's wife on the xmas meal, he drinks to EXCESS once he starts) and said 'I'm really worried about acrosstheuniverse' my Father asks why, he said 'well didn't you know she's fu(k1ng half of the city?' because a friend of his had seen me kissing a guy in a bar. That's the kind of stuff he does.

 

The most stark characteristics I feel though are the lack of remorse or guilt, even when he's been exceptionally violent he shows NO remorse. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault, never his. He has been that way his whole life. I'm not so sure he's emotionally shallow, I think his emotions run deep (or he wouldn't have been so destroyed when our Mother died surely?) he just bottles them up, you'd never know they were there. And the lack of empathy, completely. He once caused a rift in his wife's family because his wife's sister had a miscarriage and found it hard to be happy for them when they get pregnant with my youngest nephew. Instead of understanding and saying that he could see how it would be hard for her he painted her out to be selfish and miserable and jealous and needed to get over her miscarriage already. He's also racist. Never accepts responsibility for his actions. I've never had an apology or witnessed an apology from him to someone else in our whole lives. He tends to try and live the lifestyle of a party guy despite having a wife and kids, he does work incredibly hard I'll give him that in his job, but while she's at home doing 24/7 childcare he's disappearing off on stag parties and getting drunk at football with his friends. Very irresponsible financially. He had behavioural problems his whole life, didn't start speaking properly until he was about five years old and started getting in trouble with police from the age of 13.

 

Our older sister also has a long term hard drug problem and has been in jail for criminal damage and arson. I don't know her, she left when I was born. Both of them grew up in a household where they witnessed violence from their father to our mother. I conversely had a good stable childhood until I was 12 and I've turned out pretty well, no criminal behaviour, drug or alcohol problems, or violence.

 

The things you say about BPD really remind me of him to be honest. Especially what you say about the anger. I think it's always there bubbling under the surface. I feel a lot of it is his childhood, at our Mother's funeral he spent the whole afternoon getting wasted and telling people if he ever saw his Father again he'd put him six feet under. He seems to have been blaming his wife a lot about things, she said she's always trying to apologise but he keeps finding things to be angry at her about, same with the boys. If they accidentally pull a cable on the TV or erase a video game save, I notice the eldest really quickly while I'm there says 'it wasn't me Daddy, it must have been someone else, maybe it happened on its own, it definitely wasn't me' I mean I guess that's not abnormal kid behaviour but it's the urgency with which he says it, like he's scared of the consequences if he doesn't quickly persuade my brother he's not at fault.

 

I think you're right that his attitude will never stop changing towards me. I'm beginning to wonder if the good times were ever real. We got so close for the two years after losing out Mother, but now I wonder whether actually he was just using me as an emotional prop while he made his way through it. Because he didn't hesitate to cut me off when he decided to. And then being close again for his wedding. And now this, again. Although to be fair this isn't really about me, the abuse has been going on a year before me finding out. It's just that me knowing he's done that, and what they now perceive I've done to the family, kinda makes it impossible for me to ever be around anymore. It hurts a lot because I wish even if they didn't agree with what I did, that they could accept I only did it out of love for my nephews, that was my goal, not to hurt the adults. I just wanted to protect them and was backed into a corner. I even said to their Mom look, even if you hate what I did can't you see I did it out of well meaning, not to be malicious? But she couldn't. But to be fair I'm sure she was scared out of her mind.

 

It worries me sick because as a social worker I know that what is done to a child before the age of five can have a severe impact on them for the rest of their life. So I fear so much already that for the eldest boy, the damage is already done. I can see his life going down the pan with my brother as a role model, and due to the trauma of having witnessed the violence now against his Mother. None of that is anything I can change, and I just wish I could be there for him during his life, and be a good role model for him. And just provide unconditional love. I miss him so much.

 

Because he's someone who won't talk he's never ever had any kind of professional help so even though he may well be BPD or ASPD, there's no way he would end up in front of someone who could actually diagnose or treat that. He just runs riot. I just need to stay away but it's like grieving for living people. It really is hard, when I gave him the second chance this Xmas just gone I knew it was a risk but things have got so much worse... I don't honestly believe I would give him a third chance anymore, it'd be nuts. Even my closest friends have said they'd be worried if I did based on how hurt I've been this time around. It brings me pain to recall that I promised my Mom on her deathbed I'd always take care of him. I feel such sorrow for what he'd think of how it has all turned out.

 

It's hard because growing up I was mostly with my Mom and brother, my Dad was around until my teens but was often at work so my earliest memories are all mostly me, him, and her. Now that she's gone, and so has he, it's very tough feeling like my childhood memories are all without anchor now. There's nobody to turn to and say 'oh you remember when this happened?'. I sometimes see people with big happy families and feel such envy as I feel quite adrift and alone, if that makes sense.

[Downtown]

He does something wrong, then almost seems to convince himself it never happened.

Absentia, my experience with BPDers (like my exW) is that they will tell lies when they find themselves cornered without any other way to save face. Generally, however, they don't have to lie because their subconscious minds work 24/7 to protect their fragile egos from seeing too much of reality.

 

A BPDer is filled with so much self loathing and shame (carried from early childhood) that the last thing he wants to find is one more mistake or flaw to add to the long list of things he hates about himself. Hence, to the extent a BPDer has any lasting sense of self, it is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim."

 

He shows NO remorse. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault, never his. He has been that way his whole life.

Like I said above, always "The Victim." If he is a BPDer, he seeks frequent "validation" of that false self image -- usually by perceiving of his loved ones as perpetrators, i.e., the cause of his unhappiness and every misfortune.

 

I'm not so sure he's emotionally shallow, I think his emotions run deep (or he wouldn't have been so destroyed when our Mother died surely?)

If he has strong BPD traits, he is unable to regulate his emotions and thus experiences extremely intense feelings. Yet, because he is so immature, he cannot tolerate the complexity of having to deal with conflicting feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and other grey areas of personal interrelationships. He therefore will split off the conflicting feeling, putting it completely out of touch of his conscious mind (as I described earlier).

 

The result is that a BPDer can, in just a few seconds, flip quickly from loving you to hating you. In this way, BPDers exhibit the emotional purity that otherwise is only seen in very young children. And, ironically, the BPDer's outward expression of emotion can be both INTENSE and FLEETING. This is why it is said that a BPDer's emotions can seem to be a mile wide and an inch deep.

 

He's also racist.

That is a sign of the black-white thinking that immature people rely on so heavily. As I noted earlier, it occurs in BPDers because they are too immature to tolerate the grey areas of interpersonal relationships. They therefore tend to categorize everyone as "all good" (i.e., with me) or "all bad" (i.e., against me).

 

He does work incredibly hard I'll give him that in his job.

The vast majority of BPDers are -- even those who have the full-blown disorder -- are "high functioning," i.e., they tend to get along quite well with business associates, co-workers, casual friends, and total strangers. Generally, none of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. This, then, is why I suggested earlier that ASPD -- not BPD -- may explain your brother's hostile actions against people outside his own family.

 

HF BPDers usually treat these other people quite well all day long and then they go home at night to abuse the very people who love them. A BPDer's two fears are threatened and triggered by those people who are close to him. This is not true, however, if the BPDer also has moderate to strong traits of ASPD.

 

The things you say about BPD really remind me of him to be honest. Especially what you say about the anger. I think it's always there bubbling under the surface.

BPD is strongly associated with anger. Indeed, of the ten PDs, BPD is the only one in which a third of the defining traits (specifically, 3 of the 9 traits) contain the term "anger" or "rage."

 

I think you're right that his attitude will never stop changing towards me. I'm beginning to wonder if the good times were ever real.

If he were a full-blown sociopath, the "good times" were manipulation and "not real." Yet, if his main problem actually is strong BPD traits, what you saw very likely was real. As I tried to explain earlier, a BPDer lacks a cohesive sense of self. His personality therefore is fragmented and not well integrated. This means that, whenever he is experiencing very intense feelings, his conscious mind likely is completely out of touch with all of his conflicting feelings. This is why, when a BPDer is splitting you black, it seems as though he never loved you to begin with.

 

There's nobody to turn to and say 'oh you remember when this happened?'. I sometimes see people with big happy families and feel such envy as I feel quite adrift and alone, if that makes sense.

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. One's own sibling usually is the person you will know for the longest time throughout your life. Of course, this is one reason your Dad was encouraging you to reconnect with your brother. Like you, I obtain great satisfaction from reminiscing with my sibling about my childhood and my parents. It is confirmation that I really did do those things -- that it is not just a figment of my imagination.

[Tayla]

sometimes, short brief and to the point. Talk with him directly. Online diagnosis probably is making assumptions best left for licensed personel.

Sorry that the family is changing in ways that are unhealthy. you sound like a loving relative to keep in touch.

[Downtown]

Online diagnosis probably is making assumptions best left for licensed personel.

True, Tayla, but nobody on this thread has attempted a diagnosis. You are confusing "spotting warning signs" with "making a diagnosis." There is a world of difference between the two. As I cautioned in my first post above,

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your brother's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful experience.

[quankanne]

going to play the devil's advocate here, and say that while your brother's wife may have been upset about what was going on in her life, she pulled you into a situation knowing that you would do the responsible thing because it's your training. Are you now expected to forget what she described, because she doesn't want any problems?

 

not sure what to say about how to mend your relationship with your brother, which has nothing to do with his wife. You heard me right: It has NOTHING to do with her, and part of me wonders if she was trying to get you to side with her. I don't discount the possibility of abuse, but surely she understood that by talking to you - someone well versed in this kind of thing – that she would throw a serious kink into the relationship? Unless she expected you to understand that she was only venting her worries and that you were to just standby with this knowledge on your brain, but keep your hands tied?

 

couples pull these kind of power plays, and I think you got caught up in the middle of that.

 

only you can decide if your relationship with your brother is important enough to keep going; if anything, you could be his inspiration to be a better man, but that means you're going to have to do your hardest to not be pulled into either camp when they're not getting along. Accusations of abuse are a serious thing, but they also can be easily asserted when someone wants to be the "winner" of a situation. At this point, it's her word against his ... or have you yet asked him what is going on?

[CC12]

You can probably guess what happened when she "spoke to him about leaving." Clearly it did not go well, or maybe the conversation never happened in the first place. Try not to be angry with her. It's pretty hard to get out of an abusive relationship. There's a statistic for this - it takes something like 7 attempts for an abused partner to finally leave for good.

 

Keep an opening in your life for her and for your niece and nephews. Eventually, she's going to leave him (let's hope so) and then maybe you'll be allowed into their lives. Even if she doesn't leave him, those kids are going to be grown-ups one day and they'll have the ability to come to the conclusion that "Auntie in_ knew what was going on and tried to help" and you can have a relationship with them at that time.

 

If it's at all possible, keep sending those kids birthday cards every year. Their parents might intercept them and toss them in the garbage before the kids see them, but at least you'll be able to look those kids in the eye when they're adults and say, "I sent you cards every single year of your life and I never forgot about you."

 

Also, I think you should start thinking about the times your brother has been abusive to you as well, and how you reacted to it. You are also a victim of his, judging by him freezing you out and other things.

[in_absentia]

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. One's own sibling usually is the person you will know for the longest time throughout your life. Of course, this is one reason your Dad was encouraging you to reconnect with your brother. Like you, I obtain great satisfaction from reminiscing with my sibling about my childhood and my parents. It is confirmation that I really did do those things -- that it is not just a figment of my imagination.

 

Thank you for this. It really is difficult. I had my first counselling session this week and funnily enough, my counsellor did mention that my brother sounds as though he has mental health issues. We were in agreement though that whatever the nature of those issues are is irrelevant, we're not doctors, all I can work on is how I manage and respond to my needs in the relationship.

 

sometimes, short brief and to the point. Talk with him directly. Online diagnosis probably is making assumptions best left for licensed personel.

Sorry that the family is changing in ways that are unhealthy. you sound like a loving relative to keep in touch.

 

I don't actually want to talk to him. I don't feel like it's a good idea. Given my knowledge of his past actions, the way he is as a person, and what I now know he's been doing in the family home, I feel like going back to discuss things with him would be a truly bad move. I have tried to talk to him about things direct and to the point in the past many times before and he COMPLETELY stonewalls me. Pretends I never said anything. I know I wouldn't get anywhere other than end up frustrated, upset, and have stirred the hornet's nest with my SIL once again.

 

going to play the devil's advocate here, and say that while your brother's wife may have been upset about what was going on in her life, she pulled you into a situation knowing that you would do the responsible thing because it's your training. Are you now expected to forget what she described, because she doesn't want any problems?

 

not sure what to say about how to mend your relationship with your brother, which has nothing to do with his wife. You heard me right: It has NOTHING to do with her, and part of me wonders if she was trying to get you to side with her. I don't discount the possibility of abuse, but surely she understood that by talking to you - someone well versed in this kind of thing – that she would throw a serious kink into the relationship? Unless she expected you to understand that she was only venting her worries and that you were to just standby with this knowledge on your brain, but keep your hands tied?

 

couples pull these kind of power plays, and I think you got caught up in the middle of that.

 

only you can decide if your relationship with your brother is important enough to keep going; if anything, you could be his inspiration to be a better man, but that means you're going to have to do your hardest to not be pulled into either camp when they're not getting along. Accusations of abuse are a serious thing, but they also can be easily asserted when someone wants to be the "winner" of a situation. At this point, it's her word against his ... or have you yet asked him what is going on?

 

Hi, yes I agree that she pulled me into a situation knowing I'd have to act, and then I think she freaked when she realised what was going to happen and threw it back at me. I have to say that I barely had a relationship with my brother at all, the only reason I even saw him or was around him for the first half of this year was because my SIL was telling me I could go see the kids any time I wanted and sometimes, my brother happened to be there. No texts, calls, no spending time together. It hurts me deeply but I accepted that was all we were going to have.

 

Knowing my sister like I do, and my brother, I actually believe everything she said totally. I don't think she was trying to get me on side, she's known me long enough and we've had enough frank discussions for her to know that I would ALWAYS side with what's best for the kids, and even if there was some kind of dispute I'd never be the kind of person to act maliciously or not want to see the boys. I don't see any motivation for her to want things to be bad between us either, when they're already shocking. At the wedding she ran up to me and told me that since my brother and I started talking again he's been like a totally different person, so much less angry and moody. I genuinely believe the reason she chose me was because she had nobody else she thought was appropriate. If she talked to her family, she said she'd know that they would force her to leave him. Her friends too. I think she also chose me because she knew that I know him and it wouldn't shock or surprise me (I mean, it DID, but not as much as some of her friends or family would have felt if they don't know about his criminal record and stuff).

 

I'd never be an inspiration for him to be a better man. If that'd have been the case then it would be that way already. We've been through so much as a family. I said to her that if she had made it up or exagerated she could tell me, I wouldn't judge her and we could drop this. But she maintained that it was all completely true. Like I say, I haven't spoken to him properly because he won't, doesn't talk. In the end I got so seriously enraged and lost the plot I texted him how I felt about the situation and that I was done because I can't do anything without getting burnt, that he's always hurt me, and I was a fool to go back again, he's dead to me.

 

You can probably guess what happened when she "spoke to him about leaving." Clearly it did not go well, or maybe the conversation never happened in the first place. Try not to be angry with her. It's pretty hard to get out of an abusive relationship. There's a statistic for this - it takes something like 7 attempts for an abused partner to finally leave for good.

 

Keep an opening in your life for her and for your niece and nephews. Eventually, she's going to leave him (let's hope so) and then maybe you'll be allowed into their lives. Even if she doesn't leave him, those kids are going to be grown-ups one day and they'll have the ability to come to the conclusion that "Auntie in_ knew what was going on and tried to help" and you can have a relationship with them at that time.

 

If it's at all possible, keep sending those kids birthday cards every year. Their parents might intercept them and toss them in the garbage before the kids see them, but at least you'll be able to look those kids in the eye when they're adults and say, "I sent you cards every single year of your life and I never forgot about you."

 

Also, I think you should start thinking about the times your brother has been abusive to you as well, and how you reacted to it. You are also a victim of his, judging by him freezing you out and other things.

 

I wonder whether she did speak to him and it went badly, or she just didn't talk to him at all like she claimed. I really do try not to be angry at her and to be honest mostly I'm really not. I know on the surface I could be angry she's pulled me into this situation but then I have to bear in mind she's a changed woman. Some of the stuff she told me I'd have bet millions on never ever coming out of her mouth (stuff like 'I don't mind it he hits me it's just the kids I'm worried about). He's taken this woman who was happy and with a great family and a degree in progress, they got pregnant fast by accident and they threw it all into making it work. Out of a six year relationship it seems that the abuse only began around four years into it. By that point she's madly in love, they were planning on getting married, she's scared of him, doesn't want the kids to lose their family home, has no money or place to go without him, and I'm sure terrified of what he'll do next.

 

I actually told her when I blocked her that I wasn't blocking out of anger, just to protect myself for a while from the verbal abuse, and that if she ever needed me just let me Dad know and I'll unblock her and be in touch straight away. So she knows I'm there for her. She just has to ask. And I feel no shame for blocking her after the things she said to me, it wasn't helping the situation in any positive way for me to hear her say those things.

 

Thanks for the birthday card idea, interesting. I considered it for a few days, but I'm worried I'll get it ripped back up in the post, or they'll interpret it as some way for me to be trying to get contact again. I think once the eldest turns six next year I'll post him a card, I'll have moved by then and they won't know where I live to post it back. I just hope they remember that small bond we built and I hope to god that someday, they'll realise that when Daddy was beating Mommy up and casting the entire house into a cloud of fear and misery, Auntie tried to intervene and help. My counsellor said I'm showing signs of trauma too actually, just lots of nightmares and waking up crying. I let myself look at their pictures a few nights ago for the first time and just sobbed uncontrollably looking at them, typing this now is hurting. She said I need time to grieve their loss and to come to terms with what my brother has done. Counselling was okay, I managed okay, didn't really cry. But I'm not sure I'll be as composed tomorrow. She was a really lovely counsellor, amazing at her job. I was worried in case she wasn't so good, I've had counselling a handful of times across my life since aged 11 and I've had the odd dud, especially given I work a similar job it's easy to spot when someone is acting unprofessionally so I was worried but she's great. I'm nervous about going back tomorrow as I'm not sure where to start now the story is out there. But I'm gonna keep going. I've told my partner, a handful of my closest friends that I'm going for the counselling but won't be mentioning it to family or anybody else. I think for a couple of my friends it's only when I told them I'm going for it that it's hit them how hard this has been for me. From the outside it just looks like another thing to handle for me but seriously, losing those beautiful funny sweet boys from my life has torn it into pieces and I feel so lost and hurt and like I yearn every day. That's life I guess.

 

Thanks everyone

[in_absentia]

Just a tiny update. My Dad messaged me Friday morning letting me know that my brother and his wife had their baby girl on Thursday afternoon, gave me her name and weight. Said he had photos if I wanted to see them, she has his nose. I was like what in holy hell, WHY would you tell me this information? What purpose does it serve? I don't want to know a thing, now I know the baby girl's name it just makes it all the more real. My dad said he was sorry for hurting me and thought it'd be better than it coming at me via the grapevine, although there is no grapevine. I got the message right before work and just broke down, I don't cry often but I couldn't stop it. I held it together through my workday and then let go when I got home. I just couldn't hold it together any longer thinking of her being out there and everything I'm missing. I really truly wish he'd never told me. I'm at counselling tomorrow so at least I can talk to her about it. It honestly broke my heart.

[Downtown]

Absentia, thanks for returning to give us an update. I'm so sorry to hear, at a time when you're trying to heal from that toxic family relationship (your B and SIL), your dad mistakenly told you such painful details about the new neice -- as though to say, "See what you're missing in addition to the other kids you'll likely never see again."