The Problem with Girls Liking Confidence

[bluefeather]

Everything involving human nature and actions have exceptions. Of course there is more at work than what I outlined in my 2 paragraph thread. But in very generalized terms, the more someone cares about an outcome, the more nervous about it they'll be while attempting to obtain it.

 

Its not just about attraction either. In your earlier years, you may have cared more about scoring with those average girls than you do while older with the hotter ones. My principle still applies.

 

But these are not exceptions. These are normal factors that contribute to all humans experience. You can make a point with a single sentence; it does not matter whether you made 2 paragraphs or 10. For example, your statement was "the more attracted to a girl a guy is, the less confident he is going to be around them." You could make that factual by saying, "the more attracted to a girl a guy is, it seems like the less confident he is going to be around them." That would change your statement from generalized opinion stated as fact to an interesting topic of debate. But since you agreed that what you said actually was a generalization, I will not debate any further. However, saying that someone is more nervous is not the same as your initial statement of being less confident.

 

As to the possibility about caring more for "scoring" when I was younger, I disagree. I care a lot more about it now. Gotta enjoy what I can before I get too old... lol.

[chumble]

Confidence, lack of nerves, and not "caring too much". Do women view guys like the Bobs from Office Space? (Peter sits down, calmly explains how he is a slacker who could care less about his job, and is offered a promotion)

[joseb]

Confidence, lack of nerves, and not "caring too much". Do women view guys like the Bobs from Office Space? (Peter sits down, calmly explains how he is a slacker who could care less about his job, and is offered a promotion)

 

I forgot that scene!

[lino]

Confidence isn't as relevant as you think.

 

It's just a nicer and more pc way of saying they like how that guy looks or how much money he has or how physically violent he is.

[lino]

Confidence is listed as the most desirable trait for both sexes. I have heard just about every single guy I know say that confidence is a "must". There is quite a few perma-single shy girls that guys constantly overlook in favor of more extroverted and confident ones.

 

My experience is that not being confident is a disadvantage in dating in both sexes.

 

Have never seen a guy pin up a poster of a woman on his work shop wall because she looked confident

[Lois_Griffin]

I don't really get what you're saying...

 

But yes, if a guy is super confident around you, then you don't intimidate him and he's probably just going to sleep with you to get his rocks off. If a guy is even a little nervous, then that is a much better sign.

The flaw in your logic is that you're ascribing YOUR lack of confidence with women you're attracted to, to every man that walks.

 

You don't speak for all men.

 

I've enjoyed the company of several confident, intelligent, kind men in the course of my lifetime and not one of them tried the standard hookup nonsense on me that you claim will happen.

[mrldii]

Mrydii, you really do seem to be missing the OPs point on this one.

He is not talking about whether he is attractive or not.

He is saying that if a guy is really attracted to a girl, then he is naturally going to be a bit more nervous (less confident) hitting on her than if his attraction to her is minimal.

 

You even say yourself "nerves get activated when attention is piqued". This is the OPs point. Women who overvalue confidence would be put off by such display of nerves.

 

Nahhh...OP's point, which he seems to be backing off from now (and even forgetting when telling me what it is he really said) is - and I quote:

 

Girls always say they love confidence in guys. Yet at the same time, you constantly have girls complaining about getting pumped and dumped by players, and how they can never find guys who really like them. The funny thing is, the more attracted to a girl a guy is, the less confident he is going to be around them.

 

He presented this news flash as if he'd just discovered fire. He and other posters have indicated that they blew it with women they were very attracted to because - and again I quote:

 

...And yes, if you're wondering, I just screwed up with a girl who I was very attracted to tonight because I acted like a wimp.

 

 

THAT is what I'm taking exception to. That 1) if a guy's successfully hitting on a woman, it's because he doesn't find her attractive and is just looking to score; and 2) that being a little nervous around someone (which is a good sign) = being a wimp.

 

I thought I'd made that very clear when I indicated that all four of my serious relationships involved men (and this woman) who were all "a little nervous" upon meeting...and when I'd stated that nerves indicate a piqued interest. And, that these 4 men who successfully hit on me had "pump and dump *" sessions that lasted years.

 

If a male gets soooo nervous that he "wimps out *" ...well, then...that failure is on him, not on the females' inability to move passed his sweaty palms, drenched armpits, and Tourette's-style stuttering.

 

 

But, because I don't agree 100% with OP's assessment of how successful relating/mating between the human sexes should work, I have been decreed to be "arguing" with OP, when in fact it was simply a discussion on a discussion board...

 

...so I am out. I will leave this thread to its intended purpose: for those who 100% believe what the OP has said to carry on a dialogue with him, so he can feel better.

 

Perhaps in the 100% agreement he receives, he will be able to overcome his tendency to "act like a wimp *" around the women he truly desires and will no longer have to settle with "pumps and dumps *" to "get his rocks off *".

 

 

*OP's words, NOT mine

[katiegrl]

 

But yes, if a guy is super confident around you, then you don't intimidate him and he's probably just going to sleep with you to get his rocks off. If a guy is even a little nervous, then that is a much better sign.

 

Why can't he be both confident AND nervous ?

 

Confidence and nervousness are not mutually exclusive.

 

I recall when my fiance and I first met.

 

He is the most confident man I have ever known. I have a good amount of confidence myself.

 

However, when we were first introduced, the immediate attraction was so intense, we were both so nervous, we could barely speak!!

 

He still took the lead though and managed to converse with me, getting to know me and expressing his interest. All the while being incredibly nervous (as he admitted later on in our RL).

 

So not understanding this notion of a man becoming so nervous that he loses all confidence when meeting a woman he is super attracted to .... and apparently *intimidated* by.

 

That is simply not true for all men ....one has nothing to do with the other. And he can certainly be both simultaneously ..... as my fiance was when he met me.

Edited October 4, 2015 by katiegrl

[JustGettingBy]

Is anyone here familiar with the Drunning-Kruger effect?

[Revan32]

Why can't he be both confident AND nervous ?

 

Confidence and nervousness are not mutually exclusive.

 

I recall when my fiance and I first met.

 

He is the most confident man I have ever known. I have a good amount of confidence myself.

 

However, when we were first introduced, the immediate attraction was so intense, we were both so nervous, we could barely speak!!

 

He still took the lead though and managed to converse with me, getting to know me and expressing his interest. All the while being incredibly nervous (as he admitted later on in our RL).

 

So not understanding this notion of a man becoming so nervous that he loses all confidence when meeting a woman he is super attracted to .... and apparently *intimidated* by.

 

That is simply not true for all men ....one has nothing to do with the other. And he can certainly be both simultaneously ..... as my fiance was when he met me.

 

I never said they couldn't. Everyone here is reading my words and taking them to the extreme. You can be nervous around someone and still be talkative, funny and outgoing. Hell some people won't shut up when they're nervous. I get nervous every time I have to do a class presentation, yet i've gotten tons of compliments from people telling me how natural and easy going I am when I do so. Everyone handles nervousness differently. I'm simply saying, a good amount of the time, when a guy approaches you and comes off as extremely confident, and like he doesn't care much about the outcome. (which a lot girls find extremely attractive) Then he probably 1. doesn't find you that attractive, or 2. finds you attractive, but for various other reasons doesn't extremely care if the relationship goes well. A guy who is crushing hard on a girl will usually be a little less confident in talking to her than he would be in other situations. How he handles/shows that nervousness depends on the guy.

 

 

Nahhh...OP's point, which he seems to be backing off from now (and even forgetting when telling me what it is he really said) is - and I quote:

 

THAT is what I'm taking exception to. That 1) if a guy's successfully hitting on a woman, it's because he doesn't find her attractive and is just looking to score; and 2) that being a little nervous around someone (which is a good sign) = being a wimp.

 

I thought I'd made that very clear when I indicated that all four of my serious relationships involved men (and this woman) who were all "a little nervous" upon meeting...and when I'd stated that nerves indicate a piqued interest. And, that these 4 men who successfully hit on me had "pump and dump *" sessions that lasted years.

 

If a male gets soooo nervous that he "wimps out *" ...well, then...that failure is on him, not on the females' inability to move passed his sweaty palms, drenched armpits, and Tourette's-style stuttering.

 

I'm not backing off anything. Just flushing it out since people tend to take every little thing I said as if I'm trying to spout it out as gospel doctrine.

 

I used the wimp term solely on myself. Nothing in that sentence mentioned calling any other guy a wimp. Stop acting like I'm calling out your 4 ex husbands personally. The reason I said that was because I asked a girl out of facebook instead of real life. Which actually later last night she responded back to and agreed. So sometimes being a wimp works.

 

You once again said these guys who were obviously attracted to you were nervous upon first meeting you. And that they did not pump and dump you after sleeping with you. Thank you for again agreeing with everything I am saying in this thread. I still really don't get where all your anger is coming from, but I'm guessing thats just the type of person you are.

[katiegrl]

Revan, when a man aporoaches a woman in such a way that it conveys he doesn't care about the outcome (and thus probably trying to get sex), that is NOT confidence, that is arrogance and cockiness! And brazenness!

 

And you are right, when men approached me in that manner, I would stay clear... for the obvious reasons

 

But it appears you are confusing men who are confident with men being cocky and arrogant, TWO entirely different things!

 

Like I said, my man is CONFIDENT and was when he met me. He was also extremely NERVOUS ...which I sensed and found it endearing. Just like you said.

 

So perhaps you should re-phrase your posts changing "when a man is too *confident,* it means he only wants sex," to ..."when a man acts too *cocky and arrogant* when he meets you, he only wants sex."

 

Because they are not the same, even though many women (and men,) mistakenly believe they are....

Edited October 4, 2015 by katiegrl

[Gaeta]

that is NOT confidence, that is arrogance and cockiness! And brazenness!

 

And arrogance and cockiness are born out of what? yep lack of confidence!

[katiegrl]

And arrogance and cockiness are born out of what? yep lack of confidence!

 

Yep, and I was actually gonna edit my post to say that too!!

 

You beat me to it.....but YES! That is EXACTLY exactly what it means.

[Revan32]

Revan, when a man aporoaches a woman in such a way that it conveys he doesn't care about the outcome (and thus probably trying to get sex), that is NOT confidence, that is arrogance and cockiness! And brazenness!

 

And you are right, when men approached me in that manner, I would stay clear... for the obvious reasons

 

But it appears you are confusing men who are confident with men being cocky and arrogant, TWO entirely different things!

 

Like I said, my man is CONFIDENT and was when he met me. He was also extremely NERVOUS ...which I sensed and found it endearing. Just like you said.

 

So perhaps you should re-phrase your posts changing "when a man is too *confident,* it means he only wants sex," to ..."when a man acts too *cocky and arrogant* when he meets you, he only wants sex."

 

Because they are not the same, even though many women (and men,) mistakenly believe they are....

 

See now we're just debating definitions. Which is what I'm trying to avoid.

 

People tend to automatically associate confidence with good, and cockiness with bad. The thing is, you can have two different people look at one person and give you completely different perspectives on which one they're being. So I'm not going to change my post.

[mike_89]

And yeah, I really don't know what mrldii's problem is. She really isn't making the point she thinks she is.

 

Anyways OP I see where you are coming from. Same things here, when I just want to date a girl casually I can be all cool, smooth and have a nice sense of humour while when I really like a girl I'm just awkward and sometimes can't even crack a joke. Sad that it has to be this way!

Edited October 4, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Personal attack ~ V

[katiegrl]

See now we're just debating definitions. Which is what I'm trying to avoid.

 

People tend to automatically associate confidence with good, and cockiness with bad. The thing is, you can have two different people look at one person and give you completely different perspectives on which one they're being. So I'm not going to change my post.

 

Yes I am debating definitions because "confident* and *cocky* are defined differently!

 

Confidence = self-assured, assured, positive, assertive, self-reliant, poised.

 

Cocky = arrogant, conceited, overweening, egotistical, presumptuous, boastful.

 

So perhaps the confusion here is just semantics... because yes, unfortunately many women often mistake cockiness for confidence, fall for a guy's cocky-a** attitude and BS, and mistakenly believe said guy is interested in her, when all he wants is sex.

 

And I wasn't serious about you changing your posts lol, it's too late to do so anyway.

[katiegrl]

 

Anyways OP I see where you are coming from. Same things here, when I just want to date a girl casually I can be all cool, smooth and have a nice sense of humour while when I really like a girl I'm just awkward and sometimes can't even crack a joke. Sad that it has to be this way!

 

I think there is a big difference between wanting to date a girl casually, and only seeing her as someone to "pump and dump" ... as Revan posted earlier.

Edited October 4, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Rebuttal to personal attack ~ v

[mike_89]

Anyway on topic, what I meant by dating casually is dating with no other interest than having sex, with the aim of becoming friends with benefits. I guess that's somewhat in line with OPs "pump and dump".

Edited October 4, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Rebuttals deleted ~ V

[Robert]

Folks - Moderation expects ALL members to keep this on topic and stop with the personal attacks. Any more personal attacks on this thread, it will be closed up and all participating members involved in personal attacks will be given a "vacation".

 

Thank you,

 

~ V

[thecrucible]

I think the OP's main issue is what he chose as the thread title. What he says is correct. He's not launching an attack on an entire gender. It's absolutely true. If the guy is more nervous, he likely is more interested in you. That should not result in him being dismissed by a woman he is showing an interest in. It happens to me too. With guys I really like, I almost can't talk whereas with guys I'm not interested in it's very simple to talk to them. Hopefully both parties get tongue tied and have awkwardness so they don't judge each other too much.

[Popsicle]

Girls always say they love confidence in guys. Yet at the same time, you constantly have girls complaining about getting pumped and dumped by players, and how they can never find guys who really like them. The funny thing is, the more attracted to a girl a guy is, the less confident he is going to be around them.

 

I've hooked up with some very attractive women in my time. Girls that had bodies that could give a Kardashian girl a run for her money. I approached them acting very confident and sexy and took them home within an hour of meeting them. The thing is, I didn't think they were that attractive. My friends were raging about how hot they were, but I wasn't impressed. They just weren't my type.

 

Now on the other hand, there are girls who I am super attracted to, yet other guys I've talked to don't find them hot at all. When I talk to these girls, I am super awkward, and can barely speak. They probably think I'm a total wimp.

 

Ladies, if a guy comes up to you 100% sure of himself, you should be thinking "wow this ******* doesn't even think I'm hot enough to be nervous around". And when a guy comes up to you noticeably sweaty, you should think "ahhh he must be very attracted to me, I should give him a shot".

 

And yes, if you're wondering, I just screwed up with a girl who I was very attracted to tonight because I acted like a wimp. So I feel very strongly that you all should take my advice.

 

This is so very true. I think with experience, people realize this and come to really appreciate it, but until they gain this insight, neither men or women like it.

[StocksnBlondes]

Let me make sure I understand...if a guy that we find attractive approaches us and can actually get words out of his mouth, we should know that he's only able to speak to us because he doesn't really find us attractive...

 

ergo, we should only be responsive to those who can not utter a complete sentence in our general direction, if we truly want what's best for us?!?

 

 

 

 

Ladies...have we just been "negged"?

 

 

 

 

Good luck with that, OP...

 

Hahaha ...thanks for the belly laugh this morning ...I needed it:) you're a riot mrldii

[fitnessfan365]

I've hooked up with some very attractive women in my time. Girls that had bodies that could give a Kardashian girl a run for her money. I approached them acting very confident and sexy and took them home within an hour of meeting them. The thing is, I didn't think they were that attractive. My friends were raging about how hot they were, but I wasn't impressed. They just weren't my type.

 

So you approached and hooked up w/women you weren't attracted to because of peer pressure?

 

But seriously dude, why waste your time on women you don't want in the first place? Makes no sense.

[StocksnBlondes]

Girls always say they love confidence in guys. Yet at the same time, you constantly have girls complaining about getting pumped and dumped by players, and how they can never find guys who really like them. The funny thing is, the more attracted to a girl a guy is, the less confident he is going to be around them.

 

I've hooked up with some very attractive women in my time. Girls that had bodies that could give a Kardashian girl a run for her money. I approached them acting very confident and sexy and took them home within an hour of meeting them. The thing is, I didn't think they were that attractive. My friends were raging about how hot they were, but I wasn't impressed. They just weren't my type.

 

Now on the other hand, there are girls who I am super attracted to, yet other guys I've talked to don't find them hot at all. When I talk to these girls, I am super awkward, and can barely speak. They probably think I'm a total wimp.

 

Ladies, if a guy comes up to you 100% sure of himself, you should be thinking "wow this ******* doesn't even think I'm hot enough to be nervous around". And when a guy comes up to you noticeably sweaty, you should think "ahhh he must be very attracted to me, I should give him a shot".

 

And yes, if you're wondering, I just screwed up with a girl who I was very attracted to tonight because I acted like a wimp. So I feel very strongly that you all should take my advice.

 

Confidence is good and I'm not worried if a guy does not appear nervous (I'm not 20s/30s anymore and most guys have a way of hiding their nervousness at the age I'm dating) ...but humility is a thing I look for... as someone else pointed out ... It shows gratitude that my date is appreciative of my choosing to go out with him ...

 

On the other hand ...when I was younger I didn't look for nervousness but rather if the guy did things to try to impress me ...now that's a guy with confidence who can back up his confidence. In the animal world ...that's what all those crazy displays are for re: the male of the species ...99% of the time it's the male who's displaying. The peacocks aren't nervous ...they're out there showing off what they've got so they can attract the alpha female so they can pass on their DNA with who they perceive is the top chic

[circlesinfinity]

Girls always say they love confidence in guys. Yet at the same time, you constantly have girls complaining about getting pumped and dumped by players, and how they can never find guys who really like them. The funny thing is, the more attracted to a girl a guy is, the less confident he is going to be around them.

 

I've hooked up with some very attractive women in my time. Girls that had bodies that could give a Kardashian girl a run for her money. I approached them acting very confident and sexy and took them home within an hour of meeting them. The thing is, I didn't think they were that attractive. My friends were raging about how hot they were, but I wasn't impressed. They just weren't my type.

 

Now on the other hand, there are girls who I am super attracted to, yet other guys I've talked to don't find them hot at all. When I talk to these girls, I am super awkward, and can barely speak. They probably think I'm a total wimp.

 

Ladies, if a guy comes up to you 100% sure of himself, you should be thinking "wow this ******* doesn't even think I'm hot enough to be nervous around". And when a guy comes up to you noticeably sweaty, you should think "ahhh he must be very attracted to me, I should give him a shot".

 

And yes, if you're wondering, I just screwed up with a girl who I was very attracted to tonight because I acted like a wimp. So I feel very strongly that you all should take my advice.

 

Lol!

I get what you're saying and I have thought this before...:laugh:I still kind of do. The only reason is because I get nervous around men I find attractive in some way but the ones I don't I can talk to all day.

 

For example, there was this tall gorgeous guy who used to work with. He really was handsome, but he used to always finsmd things to argue with me about. I honestly thought he was an idiot when I started and he was very, very eager to train me around the department. (D*mn he was annoying!)

 

Later there was a new guy that started, he had to have been 5'11 and the guy that trained me had to have been in 6ft-something. I liked the second one the most, he was so awkward he had unique features (he could pass for native American or a Pacific islander), he randomly told me one that he was Mexican and Spanish. He has an unusual walk, into the visual arts and in rave...so cute!

 

The first guy was the usually westernized jerk...get a girl who everyone else thinks is hot, marry her, have a lot of money to spend and show off for others approval.

 

I never took an interest in the men that others thought I should talk to, the "gorgeous" guy by society's standards or "typical"...