Oregon_Dude Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 I was watching the movie "Her" last night for the second time. It's an incredibly moving film which essentially uses the metaphor of a man falling in love with his operating system to describe the ever-changing nature of love. Without spoiling much, Samantha, the OS, does some (a lot of) changing of her own, which is painful and heartbreaking for Theodore, the human who's in love with her. If you haven't seen it, and you're going through heartbreak - which you are; you are reading this, after all - then you need to check it out. The pain of a breakup is usually felt strongest by the "dumpee", at least initially, whose ex has decided he/she didn't want to be in that relationship anymore. The dumpee is often blindsided, hurt, angry, wondering how that person's feelings could change, seemingly out of nowhere. The pain is unintentionally self-inflicted, largely based on a nonacceptance of the fundamental nature of change in the human heart. When you hate the ex, when you ruminate incessantly, when you resist.. you are negating their innate capacity for change. People change. They changed. What they wanted on day A of being with you is now completely different on day Z. Unless you were a terrible partner who did things like cheat, lie and betray, what happened is that their heart changed. Since we didn't change at the same time, we feel deceived. What you fail to realize is that you yourself also change. You simply didn't change in tandem with your partner. That is to say, you were still in love with them while they were already deep in the throes of change. Can you remember a time when you decided that a career was no longer for you anymore? or even a time when how YOU felt about someone changed, and you had to break up with them, leaving them heartbroken? even if you couldn't necessarily articulate why this change occurred? You were honoring your change and had to do what was best for you. Love is obviously best when both partners are on the same page, and want to be together. Sometimes this coincidence has a limited timeframe. You can only cherish this time while it lasts; not wonder about when it's going to end. I remember thinking after a particularly lovely weekend with my ex: "This is the happiest I have ever been." It was a real feeling for me, and I'm lucky to have experienced it. Just because I no longer have that feeling with this person anymore, doesn't mean I'm not grateful for it. I am. It was beautiful, and its shelf life was short. I'm still glad it happened. Allowing people to change and grow beyond you is a central theme in "Her". Sometimes only art can tell the truth about life. When we let people change without hating them for it (since we were not changing at the exact same time), ironically, we also change. Our perception of them being "the one" changes. Our idea of what we can or cannot handle changes. We realize we are incredibly strong and self-reliant. Their change forces us to change, and months/years later, we're grateful for it. When you let people go, grow and change, even if it doesn't seem to serve your best interest, you are doing both of you a favor. A lot of pain comes from not accepting their change, and trying to beg them to remain the same. But they are not capable of remaining the same. You may as well be begging for night to be day, up to be down. It is impossible. Of course we will think about those times when we were both happy together. We will wish for those times back. But once they're gone, they are completely and irrevocably gone. That's why second chances almost always don't work; you can't repeat a relationship and its innocence and hope for the future once that hope has already been tainted by negative feelings and resentments. The very good news is that there are many people you have yet to meet. Will you fall in love with them, and they you? I don't know. I think it's a mistake to say you WILL love again, since we just don't know. But if you are willing to see love as a beautiful thing that changes, and appreciate it fully while it's there, while also letting it go when it needs to go... you are able to reduce the self-induced suffering that clinging to it brings when it ends. I hope that your next love means both of you changing in the same direction - forward, together. If one of you changes in a different direction than the other, that is OK. We are all just trying our best to be happy and honor the truth within us. Try not to hate or resent the ex for changing. Their growth is their happiness, and we shouldn't try to stop others from being happy. Even/especially if we love them. I hope you find your peace soon. I am trying. And hopefully getting closer by the day. OD 9
Gus Grimly Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 That was a great read. Thanks for sharing. 2
ManyDissapoint Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Part of it is, yeah sure, you changed. Don't be an ********* about it though by cheating, lying, gas lighting, manipulating and stringing along the person that you no longer love. The other part is that I believe that we are responsible for the ways in which we change. In other words, you can change responsibly. I would not want any other life than the one that I am responsible for the outcomes--good or bad. 1
Author Oregon_Dude Posted September 29, 2015 Author Posted September 29, 2015 Don't be an ********* about it though by cheating, lying, gas lighting, manipulating and stringing along the person that you no longer love.Yeah, I feel you. Thing is, they're only using the tools in their (sh*tty) toolbox. Even the meanest people are still doing their best.
sbk24 Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 That was a good read and nice to know your faults. I really do hope one day that I take this view! 2
Draper Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Part of it is, yeah sure, you changed. Don't be an ********* about it though by cheating, lying, gas lighting, manipulating and stringing along the person that you no longer love. The other part is that I believe that we are responsible for the ways in which we change. In other words, you can change responsibly. I would not want any other life than the one that I am responsible for the outcomes--good or bad. That's exactly what I thought after reading. Obviously I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, and if they tell you straight up then all you can do is accept that they need to do what's best for them and move on. But when the lying and deceiving and all that **** comes into play, it's a hell of a lot harder to accept that they just 'changed'. Good read though OD
Liono84 Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Great read. Those were some very thoughtful words and made me think about things. I agree with you in every sense. People change, and you can't force them not to. What one person feels one day, isn't guaranteed the next and so on.. I'm not a hateful person in any way, shape, or form and that the honest truth. However, although I've fully accepted the fact that it's over and have moved on for the better, I would be completely lying to myself if I said I didn't have any sort of hate towards her in some capacity. Sure, that too, may one day also change months from now when she won't even cross my mind or if I'm with someone else I truly love, but for now, it's still there. 1
Nep2112 Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Your post really put things in perspective for me. When my exgf first ended things (living together for 3 years) I was upset, angry, felt betrayed etc. even more so when she had a new bf 2 months later. Its been 2 years and I still dont feel ready for a serious relationship! The first year apart was filled with my inner anger and bitterness. This changed after the ex reached out to me and apologized for how things ended. I then felt that she didnt do those things to hurt me, it was just how she dealt with things. Dont get me wrong I miss her everyday, a situation will remind me of her, a movie, a location and that pain will hopefully not always be there, but I no longer have that debilitating anger and hostility. Thanks for your post! 1
Christos Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 I don't agree with this opinion. Quite the contrary is true for most people, people DO NOT CHANGE. Sure, the may mature, but do not fundamentally change their personalities, so if they were fit for each other then, they are now and they will be in the future. In 99% of the time, what "changed" is that the infatuation went away, and one or both partners decided to find a "new" person to feel it again. It's all there is to it. It's even funnier considering that most relationships we read on this forum for example, are really short on length. People don't radically change during 2 or 5 or even 10 years. It's absurd to think that they simply "changed" and it is natural. The problem is that most people don't respect monogamous relationships anymore, and don't want to put work into a long term relationship and/or marriage. They may say they want it, but only as an insurance policy, to avoid being dumbed themselves. As soon as the opportunity presents, they will dumb you. In my experience, the partner who is more willing to declare their commitment "forever" and demand exclusivity, the more jealous and possesive, is the one more likely to leave/cheat in the end. So, no, i don't believe they "changed". They are the same people as when we met them. They just want something "new". They will only settle when nature takes its toll on them, and they can't continue the cycle anymore... 3
Author Oregon_Dude Posted September 30, 2015 Author Posted September 30, 2015 99% of the time, what "changed" is that the infatuation went away, and one or both partners decided to find a "new" person to feel it again. It's all there is to it.Fair enough dude. I respect your opinion. Still, that infatuation changed. That person's desire to be with you changed. Their putting you at the forefront of their romantic life changed. In this regard, they have changed how they prioritize you. As s result, you change in order to never be an option to someone who doesn't view you as a priority. If people don't change, then my ex still loves me and cares about me... which isn't the case. Either way, we can either cling to the past and hope for some magical reconciliation... or go with the sea change. I can tell you that I am a different man than I was years ago. I am always changing and becoming the man I want to be. 1
Draper Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 Christos raises a lot of fair points as well. I especially like the line "most people don't respect monogamous relationships anymore" - maybe it's just me but I feel like social media, texting, etc. have ****ed up relationships forever.
Author Oregon_Dude Posted September 30, 2015 Author Posted September 30, 2015 Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Texting and FB don't kill r/s's. People kill r/s's. 1
Bo34 Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 I don't agree with this opinion. Quite the contrary is true for most people, people DO NOT CHANGE. Sure, the may mature, but do not fundamentally change their personalities, so if they were fit for each other then, they are now and they will be in the future. In 99% of the time, what "changed" is that the infatuation went away, and one or both partners decided to find a "new" person to feel it again. It's all there is to it. It's even funnier considering that most relationships we read on this forum for example, are really short on length. People don't radically change during 2 or 5 or even 10 years. It's absurd to think that they simply "changed" and it is natural. The problem is that most people don't respect monogamous relationships anymore, and don't want to put work into a long term relationship and/or marriage. They may say they want it, but only as an insurance policy, to avoid being dumbed themselves. As soon as the opportunity presents, they will dumb you. In my experience, the partner who is more willing to declare their commitment "forever" and demand exclusivity, the more jealous and possesive, is the one more likely to leave/cheat in the end. So, no, i don't believe they "changed". They are the same people as when we met them. They just want something "new". They will only settle when nature takes its toll on them, and they can't continue the cycle anymore... Very true on both parts here
Liono84 Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 I don't agree with this opinion. Quite the contrary is true for most people, people DO NOT CHANGE. Sure, the may mature, but do not fundamentally change their personalities, so if they were fit for each other then, they are now and they will be in the future. In 99% of the time, what "changed" is that the infatuation went away, and one or both partners decided to find a "new" person to feel it again. It's all there is to it. It's even funnier considering that most relationships we read on this forum for example, are really short on length. People don't radically change during 2 or 5 or even 10 years. It's absurd to think that they simply "changed" and it is natural. The problem is that most people don't respect monogamous relationships anymore, and don't want to put work into a long term relationship and/or marriage. They may say they want it, but only as an insurance policy, to avoid being dumbed themselves. As soon as the opportunity presents, they will dumb you. In my experience, the partner who is more willing to declare their commitment "forever" and demand exclusivity, the more jealous and possesive, is the one more likely to leave/cheat in the end. So, no, i don't believe they "changed". They are the same people as when we met them. They just want something "new". They will only settle when nature takes its toll on them, and they can't continue the cycle anymore... Although what you said is all very true, I think you're misinterpreting Oregon Dude. I think what he's trying to say is that the dynamics of the relationship changed. Yes, it's true, people generally don't change much in their core beliefs, values, personalities, traits etc., but I don't think that's what we're talking about here. What we're talking about here has more to do with the evolution of the relationship itself. The dynamics of a relationship continuously evolve month-to-month, year-to-year. (whether it's the first time you kiss, first time you have intercourse, meet their friends/family, go on a vacation together, move-in together etc.). Both partners have to be on the same page and grow together in order for the relationship to survive. If one partner changes at any time with their feelings towards the other, then the relationship will end. I really don't think it's has too much to do with it the monogamous relationship factor, because generally, people who have issues with conforming to that, don't get involved in long-term relationships to begin with. Obviously, I'm generalizing as there certainly are exceptions to the rule, but you get my drift..... And yes, you're right, we're not as infatuated with the other partner as time goes bye, but is that such a bad thing? Why should you be infatuated with someone when you know them very well. Infatuation is like a crush, it's got a limited shelf life, so if that's whats driving a relaitonship, then it's obviously not going to last. If a relationship dies because one partner lost infatuation for the other, than the person was not mature enough to be in a relationship from the get go.
Author Oregon_Dude Posted September 30, 2015 Author Posted September 30, 2015 I think what he's trying to say is that the dynamics of the relationship changed. Yes, it's true, people generally don't change much in their core beliefs, values, personalities, traits etc., but I don't think that's what we're talking about here. What we're talking about here has more to do with the evolution of the relationship itself. The dynamics of a relationship continuously evolve month-to-month, year-to-year. (whether it's the first time you kiss, first time you have intercourse, meet their friends/family, go on a vacation together, move-in together etc.). Both partners have to be on the same page and grow together in order for the relationship to survive. If one partner changes at any time with their feelings towards the other, then the relationship will end. ... we're not as infatuated with the other partner as time goes bye, but is that such a bad thing? Why should you be infatuated with someone when you know them very well. Infatuation is like a crush, it's got a limited shelf life, so if that's whats driving a relaitonship, then it's obviously not going to last. If a relationship dies because one partner lost infatuation for the other, than the person was not mature enough to be in a relationship from the get go.Liono, spot on man, I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for describing the differences between my point and Christos's so well. If people grow and change AWAY from you - even if it's into someone else's arms - you absolutely must let them, and accept in your heart that that is their path. Suffering at its essence is resistance to change. Once something has changed, it cannot, by nature, retain its original form. This is very true for relationships. You cannot be in the same river (love) twice with the same person, and if you are, you cannot expect it to be the same. It is muddied and corrupted by waters of the past.
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